Orchard covering Boldin
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Yup...
All those confusing facts... will you never stop?
Here's another one... excepting injury, Khalil is on field for every defensive snap the Raiders see.
Ha.....and just to see and, hopefully, settle it...I just found and watched the play again.....over and over....
1st down(following a punt)....and they have run personel with 2 wr, 2 te and a rb.....we counter with standard 3-4-4....
they break huddle and every man goes to the line, with the QB in an empty backfield....meaning 5 receiver set....
our guys adjust.....CB's take the wides.....inside backers take the TE's and orchard takes the slot(Kruger is rushing)....Gipson and Dansby play back 5 yards - spread and wait to play the ball.....
When snapped...Orchard looks to have first 5 yards of responsibility, with Gipsonright behind and coming up to play the ball...
To me.....defensed perfectly personnel wise and really the only option...which is why Brady Quinn comes off like a dumb ass.....didnt even see it was a 5 receiver set/////
Ha.....and just to see and, hopefully, settle it...I just found and watched the play again.....over and over....
1st down(following a punt)....and they have run personel with 2 wr, 2 te and a rb.....we counter with standard 3-4-4....
they break huddle and every man goes to the line, with the QB in an empty backfield....meaning 5 receiver set....
our guys adjust.....CB's take the wides.....inside backers take the TE's and orchard takes the slot(Kruger is rushing)....Gipson and Dansby play back 5 yards - spread and wait to play the ball.....
When snapped...Orchard looks to have first 5 yards of responsibility, with Gipsonright behind and coming up to play the ball...
To me.....defensed perfectly personnel wise and really the only option...which is why Brady Quinn comes off like a dumb ass.....didnt even see it was a 5 receiver set/////
That sounds like "graduate level" stuff Mud...
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Maybe i'm not remembering the play right but was't Orchard up at the line? Playing tight bump and run? I'm perfectly ok with him dropping into a zone and possibly giving up a short pass to Boldin but keeping him infront of him. If that's what was gonna happen hey fine, no complaints from me. But as we've seen a couple times this season, Oneil's put our OLB'ers in man coverage against slot wr's.
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Maybe i'm not remembering the play right but was't Orchard up at the line? Playing tight bump and run? I'm perfectly ok with him dropping into a zone and possibly giving up a short pass to Boldin but keeping him infront of him. If that's what was gonna happen hey fine, no complaints from me. But as we've seen a couple times this season, Oneil's put our OLB'ers in man coverage against slot wr's.
Maybe i'm not remembering the play right but was't Orchard up at the line? Playing tight bump and run? I'm perfectly ok with him dropping into a zone and possibly giving up a short pass to Boldin but keeping him infront of him. If that's what was gonna happen hey fine, no complaints from me. But as we've seen a couple times this season, Oneil's put our OLB'ers in man coverage against slot wr's.
same difference.....the safeties were playing zone(safety valves) and it was a quick 4 yd slant and Orchard really just had to bump him off the line....like I said, Gipson was right there(10 yards off the line & 5yds behind Orchard and Gaines) to pick up coverage or make the tackle, depending on which one the ball went to.....
By design, we were set to prevent the long pass and keep things underneath....and it worked.....
3 plays later, the series was over.......honestly. the ONLY reason this thread is even here is because Brady Quinn made a stupid comment.....
We used our OLBs to cover 10 other pass routes, but no one is taking about that....why?.....because the TV talking heads didnt point it out for them and because the plays worked like they are supposed to....
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I would guess Jon Gruden knows more about defenses then ANYONE on this forum. Being an offensive coach means he studies defenses. And when he says the Browns defense is playing something he doesn't know what it was, I will take his word for it
Almost everyone on here thinks Bernie can pick apart a defense. But he's an offensive guy so what does he know
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Of course Gruden was smart to keep Kiffin as def cord in Tampa. If Gruden came here do you think he's keep O'neil? No way
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Brady Quinn is a doofus...
Look...OLBs have to cover....at least one on every play....thats what they do.....so if it's not Orchard, its gonna be Kruger or Armonty or Mingo....
Everybodies popular choice is Mingo...but then you're playing your worst backer every play....so instead, we use Orchard, Kruger and Armonty more often...but ONE of ems gonna have to cover...
And on the play in question?....Orchard had decent coverage, just gabbbed the guy....it happens...
....
BQ is a dumbass and didnt understand defenses...THAT s why he sucked...
Brady Quinn is a doofus...
Look...OLBs have to cover....at least one on every play....thats what they do.....so if it's not Orchard, its gonna be Kruger or Armonty or Mingo....
Everybodies popular choice is Mingo...but then you're playing your worst backer every play....so instead, we use Orchard, Kruger and Armonty more often...but ONE of ems gonna have to cover...
And on the play in question?....Orchard had decent coverage, just gabbbed the guy....it happens...
....
BQ is a dumbass and didnt understand defenses...THAT s why he sucked...
So, what are the cornerbacks and safeties? Potted plants? The opponents best WR probably being covered by a LB only is absurd.
Should they be giving help coverage? Sure....but not primary coverage.
They should be covering RBs coming out on the field.
And hell, if it is a "passing down" then you would have the nickel defense in, no? 5 DBs.
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Brady Quinn is a doofus...
Look...OLBs have to cover....at least one on every play....thats what they do.....so if it's not Orchard, its gonna be Kruger or Armonty or Mingo....
Everybodies popular choice is Mingo...but then you're playing your worst backer every play....so instead, we use Orchard, Kruger and Armonty more often...but ONE of ems gonna have to cover...
And on the play in question?....Orchard had decent coverage, just gabbbed the guy....it happens...
....
BQ is a dumbass and didnt understand defenses...THAT s why he sucked...
So, what are the cornerbacks and safeties? Potted plants? The opponents best WR probably being covered by a LB only is absurd.
Should they be giving help coverage? Sure....but not primary coverage.
They should be covering RBs coming out on the field.
And hell, if it is a "passing down" then you would have the nickel defense in, no? 5 DBs.
So, what are the cornerbacks and safeties? Potted plants? The opponents best WR probably being covered by a LB only is absurd.
Should they be giving help coverage? Sure....but not primary coverage.
They should be covering RBs coming out on the field.
And hell, if it is a "passing down" then you would have the nickel defense in, no? 5 DBs.
It wasn't a "passing" down, as Ive already said several times......it was 1st down, deep in their own territory and they had run personnel in.....2 te's and RB.....which is gonna be a run the high percentage of the time.....you dont normally play nickle personnel against 2 TE's and a RB....
and Orchard only had him for the first few yards, with Gipson right there to take the route.....
Again...there were 5 receivers at the line(and an empty backfield)).....we defensed it to keep the pass underneath and not allow a big gain....and it worked....
yet, somehow, it didnt?......
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So, what are the cornerbacks and safeties? Potted plants? The opponents best WR probably being covered by a LB only is absurd.
Should they be giving help coverage? Sure....but not primary coverage.
They should be covering RBs coming out on the field.
And hell, if it is a "passing down" then you would have the nickel defense in, no? 5 DBs.
It wasn't a "passing" down, as Ive already said several times......it was 1st down, deep in their own territory and they had run personnel in.....2 te's and RB.....which is gonna be a run the high percentage of the time.....you dont normally play nickle personnel against 2 TE's and a RB....
and Orchard only had him for the first few yards, with Gipson right there to take the route.....
Again...there were 5 receivers at the line(and an empty backfield)).....we defensed it to keep the pass underneath and not allow a big gain....and it worked....
yet, somehow, it didnt?......
It wasn't a "passing" down, as Ive already said several times......it was 1st down, deep in their own territory and they had run personnel in.....2 te's and RB.....which is gonna be a run the high percentage of the time.....you dont normally play nickle personnel against 2 TE's and a RB....
OK, fine...the LBs should be covering the TEs/RB
and Orchard only had him for the first few yards, with Gipson right there to take the route.....
OK, then...he really just was providing "help" not primary coverage?
Again...there were 5 receivers at the line(and an empty backfield)).....we defensed it to keep the pass underneath and not allow a big gain....and it worked....
I thought you just said they had 2 TEs and a RB.....not it is 5 WRs.....which is it?
yet, somehow, it didnt?......
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Gip, it was two TEs and a RB that ending up all splitting out wide as receivers. So five receivers, not five WR.
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I would guess Jon Gruden knows more about defenses then ANYONE on this forum. Being an offensive coach means he studies defenses. And when he says the Browns defense is playing something he doesn't know what it was, I will take his word for it
Almost everyone on here thinks Bernie can pick apart a defense. But he's an offensive guy so what does he know
I would guess Jon Gruden knows more about defenses then ANYONE on this forum. Being an offensive coach means he studies defenses. And when he says the Browns defense is playing something he doesn't know what it was, I will take his word for it
Almost everyone on here thinks Bernie can pick apart a defense. But he's an offensive guy so what does he know
Of course Gruden was smart to keep Kiffin as def cord in Tampa. If Gruden came here do you think he's keep O'neil? No way
When cornered... attack!
Two questions:
When was the last time Gruden devised a game plan?
In that time have Defenses remained stagnant?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
What attack?
It was stated Gruden doesn't know defenses, because he was an offensive coach. And that's false.
And I agreed that Gruden was smart for keeping Kiffin.
How is that attacking anyone?
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I would guess Jon Gruden knows more about defenses then ANYONE on this forum. Being an offensive coach means he studies defenses. And when he says the Browns defense is playing something he doesn't know what it was, I will take his word for it
Almost everyone on here thinks Bernie can pick apart a defense. But he's an offensive guy so what does he know
Of course Gruden was smart to keep Kiffin as def cord in Tampa. If Gruden came here do you think he's keep O'neil? No way
When cornered... attack!
Two questions:
When was the last time Gruden devised a game plan?
In that time have Defenses remained stagnant?
When cornered... attack!
Two questions:
When was the last time Gruden devised a game plan?
In that time have Defenses remained stagnant?
Generally, yeah. There are new wrinkles added week-by-week, sure. But in general that last defensive "breakthrough" was really the Tampa 2. There was a cool spot on this exact topic probably two years ago, actually.
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So, what are the cornerbacks and safeties? Potted plants? The opponents best WR probably being covered by a LB only is absurd.
Should they be giving help coverage? Sure....but not primary coverage.
They should be covering RBs coming out on the field.
And hell, if it is a "passing down" then you would have the nickel defense in, no? 5 DBs.
It wasn't a "passing" down, as Ive already said several times......it was 1st down, deep in their own territory and they had run personnel in.....2 te's and RB.....which is gonna be a run the high percentage of the time.....you dont normally play nickle personnel against 2 TE's and a RB....
and Orchard only had him for the first few yards, with Gipson right there to take the route.....
Again...there were 5 receivers at the line(and an empty backfield)).....we defensed it to keep the pass underneath and not allow a big gain....and it worked....
yet, somehow, it didnt?......
It wasn't a "passing" down, as Ive already said several times......it was 1st down, deep in their own territory and they had run personnel in.....2 te's and RB.....which is gonna be a run the high percentage of the time.....you dont normally play nickle personnel against 2 TE's and a RB....
and Orchard only had him for the first few yards, with Gipson right there to take the route.....
Again...there were 5 receivers at the line(and an empty backfield)).....we defensed it to keep the pass underneath and not allow a big gain....and it worked....
yet, somehow, it didnt?......
See, this is why I asked for a screen shot.
If the opposition comes out in '12' personnel then You're probably going to find us in something along of the lines of our base defense.
If our Dline and LB play was where most of us would want it to be - then you'd find many coordinators also look at using a big nickel in those situations. Especially in today's NFL where inline TE's just don't have the heart to block (most of the time)
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I would guess Jon Gruden knows more about defenses then ANYONE on this forum. Being an offensive coach means he studies defenses. And when he says the Browns defense is playing something he doesn't know what it was, I will take his word for it
Almost everyone on here thinks Bernie can pick apart a defense. But he's an offensive guy so what does he know
First off while I am not really a Gruden fan I do agree with you that he know more about defense than anyone on this forum.I would guess Jon Gruden knows more about defenses then ANYONE on this forum. Being an offensive coach means he studies defenses. And when he says the Browns defense is playing something he doesn't know what it was, I will take his word for it
Almost everyone on here thinks Bernie can pick apart a defense. But he's an offensive guy so what does he know
Now this not necessarily directed at Browns149 but more at every one who has brought up the Gruden commit on not knowing what defense the Browns were playing. It was sarcasm if you remember the play the Ravens receiver was so wide open it was ridiculous and while I'm yelling at the TV "what the fuck kind of defense was that", Gruden was being a little more kind with his words.
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It wasn't a "passing" down, as Ive already said several times......it was 1st down, deep in their own territory and they had run personnel in.....2 te's and RB.....which is gonna be a run the high percentage of the time.....you dont normally play nickle personnel against 2 TE's and a RB....
and Orchard only had him for the first few yards, with Gipson right there to take the route.....
Again...there were 5 receivers at the line(and an empty backfield)).....we defensed it to keep the pass underneath and not allow a big gain....and it worked....
yet, somehow, it didnt?......
See, this is why I asked for a screen shot.
If the opposition comes out in '12' personnel then You're probably going to find us in something along of the lines of our base defense.
If our Dline and LB play was where most of us would want it to be - then you'd find many coordinators also look at using a big nickel in those situations. Especially in today's NFL where inline TE's just don't have the heart to block (most of the time)
See, this is why I asked for a screen shot.
If the opposition comes out in '12' personnel then You're probably going to find us in something along of the lines of our base defense.
If our Dline and LB play was where most of us would want it to be - then you'd find many coordinators also look at using a big nickel in those situations. Especially in today's NFL where inline TE's just don't have the heart to block (most of the time)
They did come in with 12 personnel and had run on 7 of 10 first downs....many with the same personnel group...
I cant get my screen shot to load(says that extension doesnt work here)....but here it is in small form....hopefully you can see it....
\
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See, this is why I asked for a screen shot.
If the opposition comes out in '12' personnel then You're probably going to find us in something along of the lines of our base defense.
If our Dline and LB play was where most of us would want it to be - then you'd find many coordinators also look at using a big nickel in those situations. Especially in today's NFL where inline TE's just don't have the heart to block (most of the time)
They did come in with 12 personnel and had run on 7 of 10 first downs....many with the same personnel group...
I cant get my screen shot to load(says that extension doesnt work here)....but here it is in small form....hopefully you can see it....
\
They did come in with 12 personnel and had run on 7 of 10 first downs....many with the same personnel group...
I cant get my screen shot to load(says that extension doesnt work here)....but here it is in small form....hopefully you can see it....
\
Since you have the play up, would you mind pointing out who is whom and where they started? Because if they're in 12 personal, I wouldn't expect a WR in the slot, and a RB/TE outside. Is the outside receiver on their left/our right a WR?
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Ok.....what you have are the RB and a WR split wide and covered by our CB's.....which makes sense to me.....
The 2 TE's are inside and covered by Dansby and Robertson......(Kruger is lined up to rush the passer)......
And then you have the WR in the slot with Orchard......
Note: Whitner and Gipson are playing back and splitting the LB coverage.......and the LB's are lined up outside their respective players, trying to funnel them inside where there is safety help waiting.....
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OK, I've checked it out and the receiver outside is Torrey Smith, so yeah, the LBer has to cover inside, leave the CB outside. Blake Bell is lined up as the inline TE on that side. On the other side, I can't see who's outside, but you have Brian Leonhart, TE in the slot there.
I guess we should acknowledge a good play call from their OC?
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OK, I've checked it out and the receiver outside is Torrey Smith, so yeah, the LBer has to cover inside, leave the CB outside. Blake Bell is lined up as the inline TE on that side. On the other side, I can't see who's outside, but you have Brian Leonhart, TE in the slot there.
I guess we should acknowledge a good play call from their OC?
OK, I've checked it out and the receiver outside is Torrey Smith, so yeah, the LBer has to cover inside, leave the CB outside. Blake Bell is lined up as the inline TE on that side. On the other side, I can't see who's outside, but you have Brian Leonhart, TE in the slot there.
I guess we should acknowledge a good play call from their OC?
Thats my take.....
They brought these guys out and ran....ran again....ran again....(7 times).....
Then....blammo.....5 receivers at the line....
And....honestly.....they got 7 yards cause Orchard spun the guy around......and yet we are still discussing it......why?....
Brady Quinn.....
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