Keep Pettine in Place at Least 1 More Year
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If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.
I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.
Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.
Seems to me Pettine has been concerned with both Johnny "the person" and Johnny "the player" Not sure why people bitch about that. It's not like Johnny earned any right to start 2015 last year, as he was the worst quarterback we had on the roster last year by far.
Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.
The issue is that...
... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.
If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.
So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?
Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?
False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.
If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.
I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.
Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.
Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.
... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.
If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.
False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
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So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?
Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.
What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.
Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.
If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.
So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?
Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.
What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.
Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.
If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.
Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see this guy smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He's got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. What do you think he spent time in rehab for? Do you think they cured and incurable disease? To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! Unfortunately, he won't be tested for alcoholl until he is suspended by the league, just like Josh Gordon. At that point there will be zero-tolerence. You are out of your mind.
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So now it is because of Pettine that Manziel is having success? How about when Manziel tore it up against Tennessee and then Pettine promptly benched him to start a 7 game losing streak?
Is Manziel to blame for much of his "drama"? Absolutley, but Pettine has poured gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. So much is made of "off field issues" and "drama" with Manziel but here are a few facts. Since joining the Browns Manziel has never tested positive for drugs. He has never been arrested. He has never missed a team meeting. The worst thing he has done is miss a rehab session after his season was over last year. This year especially Manziel hasn't really done anything wrong. The only 2 issues have been the non story traffic stop with his girlfriend which he was clearly sober and in control based on the video and he was not even given a ticket and the fact he had the audacity to go out of town on his bye week and have a drink at a bar. He didn't make a fool of himself or miss the charity event the next day but he did go to a bar. Now Johnny did go to rehab and he is a guy that attracts attention and should know he has to keep his nose extra clean but a lot of folks seem to forget that he should also be preparing for a bowl game as a Senior in college right now. One thing Johnny also gets zero credit for is he has never been reported to be divisive in the locker room and he has never said anything critical or Pettine, his teammates, or the Browns organization to the media and he damn well has had just cause to do so.
What has Pettine done? At every opportunity he has thrown Manziel under the bus. The things he has said about Manziel to the media are ridiculous and unprofessional. He has never liked or supported Manziel and he has made sure EVERYONE knows it. Every time Manziel does something positive he dismisses it and every time he does something negative he almost seems to revel in it. The signature moment being during halftime of the Bengals game when immediately after Johnny led the team to its longest TD drive of the season he chose to rail against how Johnny was getting out of the pocket too much only to hear the opposing coach agree that their biggest concern was also making sure Johnny stayed in the pocket. Pettine has treated Johnny like a child and created a set of rules far harsher for him than any other player. At times he has seemed more intent on teaching Manziel a lesson than winning football games. Let's also not forget that Pettine clearly had an existing relationship with Hoyer last year and allowed Hoyer to bash Johnny both personally and through is lackey Cabot all of last season, great leadership there. Pettine is trying to make Johnny into a traditional pocket passer that doesn't run and shows no emotion. The problem is that sacrifices most of Manziel's strengths but even moreso the Browns simply aren't build for that. The OL, RB's, and WR's and mediocre at best and having a traditional pocket passer who is essentially managing the game isn't going to be very successful in that scenario.
Manziel is a guy that needs a mentor. He needs someone he can trust that will help to guide him and believes in him. He needs someone who understands how to emphasize his strengths while minimizing his weaknesses. Design an offense that flows for him not against him. You saw some signs of that this week with a shotgun based offense that allowed for Johnny to see the field and have space to operate. The next step is getting the receivers to work with him to extend plays and the OLine to keep blocking until the whistle blows. With Johnny you never know when he will make a play out of nothing. You also have to realize he will make some mistakes, just as all young QB's do. Don't make him so concerned about making a mistake that he can't get comfortable. Manziel is a leader and a guy that people love to play with because of his fire and passion, don't try to make him something he isn't.
If the Browns really want to succeed they should build around Manziel and give him some weapons to work with. Get him a coach that isn't an old school hardass but can teach Johnny how to still have fun and be a successful QB by nurturing him. If that isn't what they want to do then trade him and go get another traditional NFL QB who is focused on not making mistakes instead of making plays, there are no shortage of them.
Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see this guy smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He's got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. What do you think he spent time in rehab for? Do you think they cured and incurable disease? To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! Unfortunately, he won't be tested for alcoholl until he is suspended by the league, just like Josh Gordon. At that point there will be zero-tolerence. You are out of your mind.
Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see him smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! You are out of your mind.
Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.
Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.
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Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see him smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! You are out of your mind.
Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.
Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.
Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.
Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.
Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
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If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.
I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.
Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.
Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.
... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.
If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.
False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman.
I rest my case...
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Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.
Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.
Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he will.
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Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he will.
I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
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If Pettine didn't run such a loose ship in the first place, players wouldn't be treating the franchise with such little respect. Manziel had no leadership to follow or that checked him at the door in the first place, but then here comes the ambulance chaser to save the day under the National spotlight. Pettine is a pansey. The suspension after the Bye Week was stupid. This guy had no vision for the team from start to finish and threw darts at s board as to how to handle adversity. He shits his pants on the fly because he has established no structure or vision in Berea or in Game time situations. Coaches like him are a dime-a-dozen, start with your local pee wee league.
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its just not going to happen guys. New GM means New Coach. who does Alec Shriner know? Looks like he knows the Cowboys people
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I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
He blew his rookie season on drinking? How exactly? He was at practice. He wasn't drunk at practice. He didn't get arrested or cited. Did he have too much fun partying? Perhaps, but every time he so much as went to a local watering hole he got an article written about it and most of his partying was in the offseason. He struggled as a rookie for certain, just as most rookies in the NFL do. He certainly had maturity issues but that doesn't make him an alcoholic. It certainly didn't help how poorly Pettine handled the QB competition with Manziel and Hoyer. He clearly was going with Hoyer all along (which was fine as Manziel probably needed to spend a year holding a clipboard) but he managed to divide the team and stoke a hostile relationship amongst his QB's.
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I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
Horseshit. You're probably an ex alcoholic who now drinks coffee and refurnishes furniture, all the while salivating over a beer. You want to label him one because he liked to party and drink some.
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and i'll agree with diehard....to a point.
when most of us were his age we were doing the same as him, if not worse. difference is we weren't signed as the franchise's savior with a million dollar contract with which you are 'supposed' to be above reproach.
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If Pettine didn't run such a loose ship in the first place, players wouldn't be treating the franchise with such little respect. Manziel had no leadership to follow or that checked him at the door in the first place, but then here comes the ambulance chaser to save the day under the National spotlight. Pettine is a pansey. The suspension after the Bye Week was stupid. This guy had no vision for the team from start to finish and threw darts at s board as to how to handle adversity. He shits his pants on the fly because he has established no structure or vision in Berea or in Game time situations. Coaches like him are a dime-a-dozen, start with your local pee wee league.
If Pettine didn't run such a loose ship in the first place...
And now the ship's too loose...
That about covers it.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?
Wait ... you mean to tell me that some of you are chalking the whole "Bye Week Loss" up as a notch for keeping Pettine? Good grief ... the guy is a pee wee coach and ambulance chaser.
Champagne??? Please ... chicks drink champagne, not alcoholics. That was a non-story that the Browns made Mary Kay Cabot into the next Martin Bashir.
Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?
So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?
Wait ... you mean to tell me that some of you are chalking the whole "Bye Week Loss" up as a notch for keeping Pettine? Good grief ... the guy is a pee wee coach and ambulance chaser.
Champagne??? Please ... chicks drink champagne, not alcoholics. That was a non-story that the Browns made Mary Kay Cabot into the next Martin Bashir.
Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?
I agree Aten. I like Pet, but I agree, the guy coaches players like his Dad coached HS players in 1966. The guy needs to quit being a Daddy and try to win more football games. Johnny's celerbity is more the problem, not his actions. The guy didn't do shit, but since he is Johnny Football, he get the coverage. He didn't do anything different than maybe a hundred players did on their week off.
To answer your question, I take Johnny over Pet any day of the week. Johnny might actually win us some football games. Pet is the guy who didn't play him and keeps his lapdog D coordinator on the staff.
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If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.
I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.
Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.
Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.
... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.
If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.
False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
Look, you're relatively new here, and I'm not going to start arguing again if Johnny is an alcoholic or not. FWIW, we have a poster here that's a retired drug counselor- who happens to think he is. All that stuff last year, blowing off the Manning's football camp, the money phone, the swan, man I could go on. At the very least he has a drinking problem- because last game of the season Browns security had to haul his hung over ass out of his apartment because they couldn't find him- is the very definition of a drinking problem.
You don't go to 10 weeks worth of rehab and then start hanging out in bars or hang out with a barfly GF. Pettine CLEARLY told him what was expected of him during the bye, he couldn't do it- and then lied about it on top of it. That's pretty telling whatever he got taught in rehab didn't take.
Could Pettine have handled the situation a little more discretely? Probably. Is he a great coach? I have my doubts. But Johnny & Johnny alone created the mess he put himself in. As was pointed out, guys like LeBron and Jeeter go out and have a good time, but they're smart enough to tell everyone to check your cell phones at the door. Maybe JFF should start hanging with LeBron for pointers in that regard- on how to not get plastered all over social media. I don't see Mike blasting other players about activities in their free time- because he doesn't have to.
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And now the ship's too loose...
That about covers it.
I said it 'was' a loose ship (in year one and to start this season) ... now Pettine is trying to flip flop as a tough guy the same way he flip flops on a course for this team to follow. He is all over the place ... and steering us aimlessly in last place.
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That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
Look, you're relatively new here, and I'm not going to start arguing again if Johnny is an alcoholic or not. FWIW, we have a poster here that's a retired drug counselor- who happens to think he is. All that stuff last year, blowing off the Manning's football camp, the money phone, the swan, man I could go on. At the very least he has a drinking problem- because last game of the season Browns security had to haul his hung over ass out of his apartment because they couldn't find him- is the very definition of a drinking problem.
You don't go to 10 weeks worth of rehab and then start hanging out in bars or hang out with a barfly GF. Pettine CLEARLY told him what was expected of him during the bye, he couldn't do it- and then lied about it on top of it. That's pretty telling whatever he got taught in rehab didn't take.
Could Pettine have handled the situation a little more discretely? Probably. Is he a great coach? I have my doubts. But Johnny & Johnny alone created the mess he put himself in. As was pointed out, guys like LeBron and Jeeter go out and have a good time, but they're smart enough to tell everyone to check your cell phones at the door. Maybe JFF should start hanging with LeBron for pointers in that regard- on how to not get plastered all over social media. I don't see Mike blasting other players about activities in their free time- because he doesn't have to.
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if the browns could take back all their bad first round picks for the last decade and time machine pick ben roethlisberger as the new QB for the browns who here would poo poo that?
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