Keep Pettine in Place at Least 1 More Year
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Wow, some people just don't get it. Manziel is an alcoholic. Big deal, he never tested positive for drugs, alcohol is his drug of choice!...he's addicted to alcohol. Alcoholism destroys lives, families, careers. I'd much rather see him smoke a joint rather than drink alcohol. He got talent, lot's of it, but brain surgeons with a lot of talent have had their careers destroyed by alcohol. I know a neurosurgeon who's career was destroyed by alcohol. Wake up!....he's not ocassionally hitting a bong, he's out of control with alcohol. Alcoholics, almost always, have to hit rock bottom before they get serious about tackling their disease. Being named a starter, being handed million of dollars is not rock bottom. Alcoholism is a disease! Smoking a joint isn't (not that I would advocate any drug usage). To say it's OK for an alcoholic to go out and have a few drinks is insane. To say it's OK since he hasn't been arrested is frickin' nuts!!! You are out of your mind.
Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.
Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.
Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.
Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.
Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
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If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.
I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.
Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.
Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.
... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.
If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.
False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman.
I rest my case...
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Johnny did go to rehab but how much of that had to do with alcohol is unknown, if anything it seemed to be about changing behavior. Does/did he have an issue? Yes. How severe is another topic. He was never arrested for a DWI or PI. He never showed up to work drunk or failed to perform due to alcohol. He hasn't missed team meetings. That doesn't mean he is problem free but I know a LOT of people that are not alcoholics that can't say any of those things. I also don't know any alcoholics that can say they haven't had those issues. Most of the issues he has had revolve around being an extremely popular and rich single guy that can get into any party and has the world at his feet and not having more people around him to protect him. Going to a club and drinking champaigne does not make you an alcoholic.
Sorry but until he gets arrested or his drinking has a true affect on his performance I think the "alcoholic" rhetoric is very overblown. If anything he appears to have matured a great deal in that regard and he is far calmer than he used to be.
Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he will.
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Again millions of families, lives and careers have been destroyed by alcoholics who have never been arrested or charged with a DUI. You don't go into a well-know rehab facility for behavior modification.
I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he will.
I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
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If Pettine didn't run such a loose ship in the first place, players wouldn't be treating the franchise with such little respect. Manziel had no leadership to follow or that checked him at the door in the first place, but then here comes the ambulance chaser to save the day under the National spotlight. Pettine is a pansey. The suspension after the Bye Week was stupid. This guy had no vision for the team from start to finish and threw darts at s board as to how to handle adversity. He shits his pants on the fly because he has established no structure or vision in Berea or in Game time situations. Coaches like him are a dime-a-dozen, start with your local pee wee league.
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its just not going to happen guys. New GM means New Coach. who does Alec Shriner know? Looks like he knows the Cowboys people
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I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
He blew his rookie season on drinking? How exactly? He was at practice. He wasn't drunk at practice. He didn't get arrested or cited. Did he have too much fun partying? Perhaps, but every time he so much as went to a local watering hole he got an article written about it and most of his partying was in the offseason. He struggled as a rookie for certain, just as most rookies in the NFL do. He certainly had maturity issues but that doesn't make him an alcoholic. It certainly didn't help how poorly Pettine handled the QB competition with Manziel and Hoyer. He clearly was going with Hoyer all along (which was fine as Manziel probably needed to spend a year holding a clipboard) but he managed to divide the team and stoke a hostile relationship amongst his QB's.
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I don't think he is an alcoholic. They label anyone an alcoholic nowadays. Pussies. He likes to party doesn't mean anything. He just needs to tone it down and grow up. I think he w
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
And what are you basing your opinion, that he's not an alcoholic, on. That he hasn't been arrested. He blew his entire rookie season by drinking. Didn't put in the time, didn't learn the playbook, because of drinking. Created a spectacle of himself and embarassed the Browns' organization because of drinking. He checked himself into rehab, a rehab center specializing in alcohol and substance abuse, because he's not an alcoholic.. He's risked his entire career to drink. Yeah, everybody does this in a period of a year-and-a-half, happens all the time.
Horseshit. You're probably an ex alcoholic who now drinks coffee and refurnishes furniture, all the while salivating over a beer. You want to label him one because he liked to party and drink some.
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and i'll agree with diehard....to a point.
when most of us were his age we were doing the same as him, if not worse. difference is we weren't signed as the franchise's savior with a million dollar contract with which you are 'supposed' to be above reproach.
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If Pettine didn't run such a loose ship in the first place, players wouldn't be treating the franchise with such little respect. Manziel had no leadership to follow or that checked him at the door in the first place, but then here comes the ambulance chaser to save the day under the National spotlight. Pettine is a pansey. The suspension after the Bye Week was stupid. This guy had no vision for the team from start to finish and threw darts at s board as to how to handle adversity. He shits his pants on the fly because he has established no structure or vision in Berea or in Game time situations. Coaches like him are a dime-a-dozen, start with your local pee wee league.
If Pettine didn't run such a loose ship in the first place...
And now the ship's too loose...
That about covers it.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?
Wait ... you mean to tell me that some of you are chalking the whole "Bye Week Loss" up as a notch for keeping Pettine? Good grief ... the guy is a pee wee coach and ambulance chaser.
Champagne??? Please ... chicks drink champagne, not alcoholics. That was a non-story that the Browns made Mary Kay Cabot into the next Martin Bashir.
Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?
So what Manziel showed up in an 8 second video, whooping it up with friends with a bottle of Champagne in his hand during a weekend off during Bye week? Seriously? So what? You mean to tell me that Pettine and the Browns organization couldn't have handled that internally, and made it into a teachable moment without going Nationally with it and setting back player/team/franchise goals?
Wait ... you mean to tell me that some of you are chalking the whole "Bye Week Loss" up as a notch for keeping Pettine? Good grief ... the guy is a pee wee coach and ambulance chaser.
Champagne??? Please ... chicks drink champagne, not alcoholics. That was a non-story that the Browns made Mary Kay Cabot into the next Martin Bashir.
Pettine and Manziel can't both stay ... who's your pick?
I agree Aten. I like Pet, but I agree, the guy coaches players like his Dad coached HS players in 1966. The guy needs to quit being a Daddy and try to win more football games. Johnny's celerbity is more the problem, not his actions. The guy didn't do shit, but since he is Johnny Football, he get the coverage. He didn't do anything different than maybe a hundred players did on their week off.
To answer your question, I take Johnny over Pet any day of the week. Johnny might actually win us some football games. Pet is the guy who didn't play him and keeps his lapdog D coordinator on the staff.
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If Johnny has been everything his supporters say he is all along, then Pet has disciplined him for his benefit/growth at a cost to the team and to the detriment of Pet's very job security.
I don't think there is any doubt that Pet's handling of Manziel has contributed to JM's improvement... to his maturation. Call it tough love, if you like, but it got JM's attention. When you deal with aberrant behavior, it sometimes takes negative reinforcement to create an opening. Then it is what you make of that opening.
Even more credit flows to Flip and O'Connell, but remember, Pet hired them.
Typically concise, on-point, bb summary... edited only for space.
... the world does not revolve around Johnny anymore.
If you do nothing else, please work to understand that Pet's issues with bailing out of the pocket come only after missing pass opportunities. It happened repeatedly in the TN game; it happened once we know of (so far) vs. SF.
False choice... and a total lack of understanding of what the "public demotion" was about.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
Look, you're relatively new here, and I'm not going to start arguing again if Johnny is an alcoholic or not. FWIW, we have a poster here that's a retired drug counselor- who happens to think he is. All that stuff last year, blowing off the Manning's football camp, the money phone, the swan, man I could go on. At the very least he has a drinking problem- because last game of the season Browns security had to haul his hung over ass out of his apartment because they couldn't find him- is the very definition of a drinking problem.
You don't go to 10 weeks worth of rehab and then start hanging out in bars or hang out with a barfly GF. Pettine CLEARLY told him what was expected of him during the bye, he couldn't do it- and then lied about it on top of it. That's pretty telling whatever he got taught in rehab didn't take.
Could Pettine have handled the situation a little more discretely? Probably. Is he a great coach? I have my doubts. But Johnny & Johnny alone created the mess he put himself in. As was pointed out, guys like LeBron and Jeeter go out and have a good time, but they're smart enough to tell everyone to check your cell phones at the door. Maybe JFF should start hanging with LeBron for pointers in that regard- on how to not get plastered all over social media. I don't see Mike blasting other players about activities in their free time- because he doesn't have to.
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And now the ship's too loose...
That about covers it.
I said it 'was' a loose ship (in year one and to start this season) ... now Pettine is trying to flip flop as a tough guy the same way he flip flops on a course for this team to follow. He is all over the place ... and steering us aimlessly in last place.
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That's one way to look at it. Another is that if he had a coach that would have fully supported him and kept discipline in the locker room instead of berating him in public then maybe Johnny could have won the Browns more football games. That's what his coach did at A&M and he won a Heisman. Manziel was a great QB before he got to Cleveland and he is showing why he can continue to be a great QB when given a chance on the field this year. It just seems that Pettine has been far more concerned about whether or not Johnny has a beer on his off weekend instead of what he has done in games or what his potential is. What other player in the NFL is not allowed to go to a bar? I believe Johnny is by himself in that regard.
You can berate Johnny and call him whatever you like but giving Pettine credit for his success is laughable. Johnny has succeeded in spite of Pettine.
Look, you're relatively new here, and I'm not going to start arguing again if Johnny is an alcoholic or not. FWIW, we have a poster here that's a retired drug counselor- who happens to think he is. All that stuff last year, blowing off the Manning's football camp, the money phone, the swan, man I could go on. At the very least he has a drinking problem- because last game of the season Browns security had to haul his hung over ass out of his apartment because they couldn't find him- is the very definition of a drinking problem.
You don't go to 10 weeks worth of rehab and then start hanging out in bars or hang out with a barfly GF. Pettine CLEARLY told him what was expected of him during the bye, he couldn't do it- and then lied about it on top of it. That's pretty telling whatever he got taught in rehab didn't take.
Could Pettine have handled the situation a little more discretely? Probably. Is he a great coach? I have my doubts. But Johnny & Johnny alone created the mess he put himself in. As was pointed out, guys like LeBron and Jeeter go out and have a good time, but they're smart enough to tell everyone to check your cell phones at the door. Maybe JFF should start hanging with LeBron for pointers in that regard- on how to not get plastered all over social media. I don't see Mike blasting other players about activities in their free time- because he doesn't have to.
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if the browns could take back all their bad first round picks for the last decade and time machine pick ben roethlisberger as the new QB for the browns who here would poo poo that?
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if the browns could take back all their bad first round picks for the last decade and time machine pick ben roethlisberger as the new QB for the browns who here would poo poo that?
if the browns could take back all their bad first round picks for the last decade and time machine pick ben roethlisberger as the new QB for the browns who here would poo poo that?
You really think one player would have mattered? This franchise couldn't have improved had we swapped rosters with New England.
But this analogy of Big Gay Ben fits because I believe Bellichick could take the roster Pettine has had the past two seasons and competed for the division ... And we certainly wouldn't have had the drama Pettine has allowed and fueled.
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And now the ship's too loose...
That about covers it.
I said it 'was' a loose ship (in year one and to start this season) ... now Pettine is trying to flip flop as a tough guy the same way he flip flops on a course for this team to follow. He is all over the place ... and steering us aimlessly in last place.
I said it 'was' a loose ship (in year one and to start this season) ... now Pettine is trying to flip flop as a tough guy the same way he flip flops on a course for this team to follow. He is all over the place ... and steering us aimlessly in last place.
Wish I'd been able to divine how far in the past your past tense was... especially since it's demonstrably false.
Last year:
- Pet established the principle of earning playing time by how you practice... a top pick is still riding a lot of pine as a result... when he is active.
- Last year we cut our prize RB because he did not play well with others.
- Last year we suspended a rookie QB and a vet WR for being late to meetings.
Need more?
Your turn... please list some of the Flip-flops you see.
Also would you please decode this for me?
Manziel had no leadership to follow or that checked him at the door in the first place...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
(slowly I turn, step by step....)
may as well say something nice about the dirtbag scmodel...
big stupid ben rapist would have been a bust with the browns.
he just got lucky that he went to the three riverrs scum at a good time.
And butticheck? He was a stupid, pouty, mumbly loser with the Browns who
failed to build an offensive line in the top five rounds.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm
There's an OG in the 2nd in 91, skip 92, Steve Everitt, C, 1st round, some OT 5th round in 93...
SKIP 94, and 95.
then, with the Patriots:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/draft.htm
There's Trey Jackson and Shaq Mason in the fourth round, 2015.
In 2014, there was center Bryan Stork, Cameron Fleming, T, both 4th round...and Jon Halapio, OL (sixth round, tho)
skip to 2011, Nate Solder, LT, first round, and Marcus Cannon, OT, fifth round
and another center and tackle, although it was 6th and 7th round in 2010
in 2009, an OT in the 2nd round, and an OG and OT in the 4th and 5th rounds...and an OC in the 6th round.
skip 08, and in 2007, he drafted two OT's in the 5th and 6th, and an OG in the 7th round.
in 2005, he drafted Mankins, OG in the 1st round, and an OT in the 3rd round.
skip 04... in 03, he drafted a C in the 5th round.
skip 02, and in 2001, he drafted two OT's in the 2nd and 4th rounds
in 2000, buttichek drafted an OT, he drafted an OG in the 2nd Round, and an OT in the 4th.
in 99, he drafted a C in the 1st round, and an OT in the 5th round.
OG, OT in 97, 4th round
In 96, two OG's in teh 4th, and a C in the 4th in 95..
Once buttichek left the Browns, he had learned that he had to grow up
a bit, and change his ways. And he started drafting olinement and built
his oliine. He even learned to talk to the media, for the most part.
Why, once he smiled a few years after he left the Browns, and he
injured his face and had to have plastic surgery.
yeah, that's a joke.
He's a worthless bum, not that I hold grudges or anything..........
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