Pope Francis Issues Decree That Jews Should Not Be Told About Salvation In Jesus Christ

jbluhm86

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-austin-fitzgerald/the-bible-doesnt-say-anyt_b_8822834.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

The Bible Doesn't Say Anything

The Bible says...

This is a powerful statement. We've all heard it before, from a pulpit or politician, friend or foe. These three words conjure an absolutist stance and the highest authority, but the fact is, the Bible doesn't say anything.

Here's an experiment. Go find a Bible. Place it on the table. Now listen. Put your ear very close if you must. Block out all peripheral noise, turn Netflix and YouTube off, and listen to the Bible. Open it even, and listen closely. I am not a psychic but I can predict you have come to the conclusion that the Bible is silent. It does not speak.

If we have established that the Bible does not speak, then how can it "say" all these things? When people claim the Bible "says" anything, it is a claim that there are words on the pages within that, when read by a person and repeated, syllables and phonetic noises can be understood by others who speak that language and can find meaning in it. Or, it is that when an individual looks at all the squiggly lines of black (or red) on the white pages of this book, their mind links them together in such a way that they form a particular meaning. My point is that the Bible does nothing. The reader does everything.

Reading is an act of interpretation. You are right now interpreting symbols that I have placed in a particular order on the internet. Once I submit this piece, I have no control over it, and you can make whatever sense you want out of it. That is the beauty of interpretation. Words are art, and they cannot be constrained to one kind of meaning. They exist to be interpreted.

The Bible has been interpreted by millions of people for over a millennium, and interpretations have varied as much. I would say that no two people can read the Bible in the exact same way, because our interpretations are filtered through our experiences, which no two people share. So how is it possible that the Bible "says" any one thing?

It is not my goal here to argue about particular things people use the Bible for, because this has been done ad nauseam by others. The Bible "said" that slavery was good. The Bible "said" that women shouldn't vote. The Bible "said" that only heterosexuals should be married. Fine. It also "said" that we are all equal under God and that we are to love each other unconditionally. Fine. The Bible is a text that was compiled over the course of a thousand years, being edited and reshaped the entirewhole time. Even up until the 17th century it hadn't been finalized by Protestants, who eventually removed the "Deuterocanonicals/Apocrypha" (the original 1611 King James Version included them!). The authors of the text had particular ideas they wanted to express, and women's rights and biotechnology were not among them.

When people say "The Bible says..." they are typically doing one of two things. 1) They are diverting authority, and criticism, to God. It's not their opinion, it's God's. The individual thus removes themselves from the equation by associating their view as divinely inspired and approved. 2) They are appealing to common ground to persuade somebody of something. This is related, but has a different rhetorical effect. These two modes often function in pairs from opposing sides. Imagine this (not that you'd likely need to imagine it): Sally claims "The Bible says X." Joan, a non-Christian, finds Sally's claim wrong, and responds, "But doesn't the Bible also say Y?" This happens very frequently, and usually leads to a standstill. Sally will not budge because she has God's authority on her side, and Joan will not acquiesce because her opinion has no biblical basis. The problem is that, "The Bible says..." diverts people from engaging with their own opinions and predispositions because they turn themselves into secondary sources. Sally claims it is not her own opinion, and Joan is only using the Bible as a tool that she doesn't even believe in. How can this dialogue ever advance?

I am suggesting that if people acknowledge that the Bible doesn't actually say anything, but that every claim is their own interpretation, heavily filtered through their own life experiences, there won't be a diversion of engagement; people will actually be able to communicate person to person, about their own opinions. As soon as the shift from "The Bible says" to "I interpret the Bible as" happens, it puts the conversationalists into a dialogue about their own actual thoughts and opinions.

To illustrate this more concretely, Colossians 3.22 reads, "Slaves, obey your masters in everything." This seems like a clear enough statement that the author upheld the institution of slavery. However, Galatians 3.28 reads, "There is no longer slave or free...for all of you are one in Jesus Christ." Paul sent back a runaway slave (Onesimus) to his owner (Philemon), only saying that Onesimus should be treated kindly, as he is now a fellow believer. So what does the Bible "say" about slavery? I will not lead myself into the quagmire of interpreting these passages here, but my point should be clear: Diverting personal responsibility for your opinions to the Bible, for whatever agenda you're trying to advance, is only effective in solidifying support with those who already agree with you. It is neither convincing nor practically effective.

I close by suggesting that if you, the reader, have ever used the phrase "The Bible says," that you examine your personal hermeneutic, because it's usually not the case that your opinions are only yours because "The Bible tells me so," it's because you have an opinion that you use the Bible to justify. And if you are someone who uses "The Bible says..." to counter a biblical interpretation with which you disagree, I suggest you don't give in to this temptation. It only feeds the illusion that the Bible can actually speak.

But the Bible doesn't say anything.

The Cysko Kid

@calfoxwc said:

and I believe that nobody gets into heaven via works.

Nobody is perfect enough to be that perfect.

Therefore, it isn't by works, it's by understanding

that Jesus died on the Cross..

Just think about that for a minute. I mean, really think about it. It sounds asinine.

OldBrownsFan

@jbluhm86 said:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ryan-austin-fitzgerald/the-bible-doesnt-say-anyt_b_8822834.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

The Bible Doesn't Say Anything

The Bible says...

This is a powerful statement. We've all heard it before, from a pulpit or politician, friend or foe. These three words conjure an absolutist stance and the highest authority, but the fact is, the Bible doesn't say anything. Yes it does...it has a lot to say. It is not a science book or math book but it deals with the heart of man

Here's an experiment. Go find a Bible. Place it on the table. Now listen. Put your ear very close if you must. Block out all peripheral noise, turn Netflix and YouTube off, and listen to the Bible. Open it even, and listen closely. I am not a psychic but I can predict you have come to the conclusion that the Bible is silent. It does not speak. It is speaking all the time but you do have to read it or hear it. We as believers are to study the bible.

If we have established that the Bible does not speak, then how can it "say" all these things? When people claim the Bible "says" anything, it is a claim that there are words on the pages within that, when read by a person and repeated, syllables and phonetic noises can be understood by others who speak that language and can find meaning in it. Or, it is that when an individual looks at all the squiggly lines of black (or red) on the white pages of this book, their mind links them together in such a way that they form a particular meaning. My point is that the Bible does nothing. The reader does everything. Jesus Himself quoted the word and said things like "it is written". Jesus Himself is tied up with the word as you or I are tied up with the words we speak. Try telling a cop after getting pulled over doing 70 in a 35 MPH that words on signs don' t have meaning or relate to authority.

Reading is an act of interpretation. You are right now interpreting symbols that I have placed in a particular order on the internet. Once I submit this piece, I have no control over it, and you can make whatever sense you want out of it. That is the beauty of interpretation. Words are art, and they cannot be constrained to one kind of meaning. They exist to be interpreted.

The Bible has been interpreted by millions of people for over a millennium, and interpretations have varied as much. I would say that no two people can read the Bible in the exact same way, because our interpretations are filtered through our experiences, which no two people share. So how is it possible that the Bible "says" any one thing? Admittedly some things in the bible are more open to interpretation than others. That is the reason we have so many denominations with different doctrines and creeds and some who have gone into extreme error and are listed as a cult. There is a backbone of the Christian faith we all (except those listed as cults) agree on such as the virgin birth, Jesus is God who became man, He died for our sins and He rose from death.

It is not my goal here to argue about particular things people use the Bible for, because this has been done ad nauseam by others. The Bible "said" that slavery was good. The Bible "said" that women shouldn't vote. The Bible "said" that only heterosexuals should be married. Fine. It also "said" that we are all equal under God and that we are to love each other unconditionally. Fine. The Bible is a text that was compiled over the course of a thousand years, being edited and reshaped the entirewhole time. Even up until the 17th century it hadn't been finalized by Protestants, who eventually removed the "Deuterocanonicals/Apocrypha" (the original 1611 King James Version included them!). The authors of the text had particular ideas they wanted to express, and women's rights and biotechnology were not among them. There was no argument the books removed were not historically correct but the debate was over were they inspired scripture. This is where you believe in miracles or you don't. God has promised to preserve His word. This is the first miracle I believe in that the word of God is accurate from what the authors stated centuries ago. Again it is vitally important the word is accurate because Jesus is called the Word. You cannot trust or have faith without trusting in the accuracy of the word.

When people say "The Bible says..." they are typically doing one of two things. 1) They are diverting authority, and criticism, to God. It's not their opinion, it's God's. The individual thus removes themselves from the equation by associating their view as divinely inspired and approved. 2) They are appealing to common ground to persuade somebody of something. This is related, but has a different rhetorical effect. These two modes often function in pairs from opposing sides. Imagine this (not that you'd likely need to imagine it): Sally claims "The Bible says X." Joan, a non-Christian, finds Sally's claim wrong, and responds, "But doesn't the Bible also say Y?" This happens very frequently, and usually leads to a standstill. Sally will not budge because she has God's authority on her side, and Joan will not acquiesce because her opinion has no biblical basis. The problem is that, "The Bible says..." diverts people from engaging with their own opinions and predispositions because they turn themselves into secondary sources. Sally claims it is not her own opinion, and Joan is only using the Bible as a tool that she doesn't even believe in. How can this dialogue ever advance? Guilty I do it all the time (with God's blessing).

I am suggesting that if people acknowledge that the Bible doesn't actually say anything, but that every claim is their own interpretation, heavily filtered through their own life experiences, there won't be a diversion of engagement; people will actually be able to communicate person to person, about their own opinions. As soon as the shift from "The Bible says" to "I interpret the Bible as" happens, it puts the conversationalists into a dialogue about their own actual thoughts and opinions. It all comes down to authority. The bible directs us to "rightly divide the word". That is the interpretation part. Because the bible is interpreted means it can be compared to our own constitution or set of laws which get interpreted by lawyers and courts all the time. That does not stop the authority of the constitution or our laws.

To illustrate this more concretely, Colossians 3.22 reads, "Slaves, obey your masters in everything." This seems like a clear enough statement that the author upheld the institution of slavery. However, Galatians 3.28 reads, "There is no longer slave or free...for all of you are one in Jesus Christ." Paul sent back a runaway slave (Onesimus) to his owner (Philemon), only saying that Onesimus should be treated kindly, as he is now a fellow believer. So what does the Bible "say" about slavery? I will not lead myself into the quagmire of interpreting these passages here, but my point should be clear: Diverting personal responsibility for your opinions to the Bible, for whatever agenda you're trying to advance, is only effective in solidifying support with those who already agree with you. It is neither convincing nor practically effective.

I close by suggesting that if you, the reader, have ever used the phrase "The Bible says," that you examine your personal hermeneutic, because it's usually not the case that your opinions are only yours because "The Bible tells me so," it's because you have an opinion that you use the Bible to justify. And if you are someone who uses "The Bible says..." to counter a biblical interpretation with which you disagree, I suggest you don't give in to this temptation. It only feeds the illusion that the Bible can actually speak.

But the Bible doesn't say anything.

Jesus said unto them "It is written". Jesus said the words he spoke were spirit and life...they speak to the heart or spirit of man. They are not just words on pages but they affect not only our minds but hearts as well. In this sense it is different than any other book.

tiamat63

@pumpkin-eater said:
He is wrong and falsely prophesizing again. Accepting Jesus is the only way to obtain salvation. What a douchebag

Didn't God/Jesus say that the Jews are his chosen people... In essence?

Sounds like there's a wee bit of a conundrum here.

OldBrownsFan

@the-cysko-kid said:
Just think about that for a minute. I mean, really think about it. It sounds asinine.

It doesn't sound right but it is. We are made right with God by faith alone. Good works show we have faith but the bible is clear you are terribly mistaken if you think good works alone will give you a right standing with God. The bible says Abraham believed God and God counted it to him for righteousness (right standing)...salvation by faith is key...

OldBrownsFan

@tiamat63 said:

Didn't God/Jesus say that the Jews are his chosen people... In essence?

Sounds like there's a wee bit of a conundrum here.

They will always be His chosen people. They were so much His chosen people He sent His Son (the Messiah) to save them. They rejected Him. The books in the old covenant paint 2 pictures of the Messiah, one as the king of kings and one as a suffering servant who takes the sins of the people upon himself. The reason there are 2 pictures painted is he comes twice. He came the first time as the suffering servant and now Christians and Jews await His second coming and this time He is coming as the king of kings. Jesus plainly told the Jewish people if they did not believe in Him they would die in their sins. The apostle Paul spoke of our relation to God as an olive tree where Jewish branches were broken off (because of unbelief) and Gentile branches were grafted on (because of belief) but made clear to Gentile believers to keep in mind we are not part of the root system (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) we are only branches, to stay humble and remember natural branches were broken off to graft us in. The gospel is to the Jew first (God's chosen people) and then to the Gentiles. Gentiles owe everything to the Jews, even our salvation. Jesus said salvation is of the Jews.

bbedward

You guys are crazy.

I would say in the event that there is a real god. He would probably base his judgement on your afterlife based on the life you lived.

Don't think he'd throw you in hell for not believing in Jesus. Lots of people are born into religion anyway.

Westside Steve

Just a side note for anyone bitches about using the blaze as a reference and counters it with a link to the Huffington Post...

WSS

OldBrownsFan

BBEdward your question really does require a bible study as they are common for most people not familiar with bible teachings:

There are many scriptures showing we are saved by faith alone but it does not leave out doing good works either. What the scriptures say is that good works will follow those who have faith and if good works are not following that faith you need to examine yourself to see if your faith is dead because real faith produces good works.

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? ⁶Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."
Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. ⁹Not by works, lest any man should boast."
Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly, and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone.

***There is one scripture that seems on it's face to contradict faith alone:

James 2:24, not by faith alone

The Scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

James begins this section by using the example of someone who says that he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14) In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith--a faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement, a public confession of the mind, and is not heart-felt. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions).

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive, hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20). But, he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.

Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a host of verses dealing with justification by faith. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith--not real faith--when he said that we are not justified by faith alone.

How Can a Loving God Send People to Hell? Dr. J. Vernon McGee

The Bible doesn't say that a loving God sends anyone to hell, and yet they do go to hell. But they don't go there because God sends them; it's the only place for those who have rejected Jesus Christ and have no capacity for God whatsoever.

When you say that He's a loving God, you've only described one part of God. God also is righteous and just and holy. And if you think that you can violate all the different attributes of God and then depend on His love to save you, you're entirely wrong. Because you cannot insult and blaspheme against God. He's told us that we're sinners and cannot come into His presence, that we do not seek after God, that we're alienated from Him.

Do you think He's going to bring you into His presence when you have ignored Him and turned your back upon Him? No. He is a holy God. He had to give His Son to die on the cross for our sins, and if you're going to reject the only way He could work out for your salvation then you must understand that this is the place for you.

Don't say that a loving God sends people to hell. Say that there is a holy God, and when you do not meet His standard you cannot go into His heaven where He is. That ought to be very obvious to you. In your home I'm sure that you have a standard and there are certain people that you would not let come in. God does the same thing. You have to meet His standard if you're going to heaven.

There's only one place for the lost who have rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and that's with the devil and his demons. Don't say that a loving God is going to send you to hell - He's not. The thing that's going to send you to hell is that you're a sinner and you don't want to admit it. That's the problem with the human family. It's a self will, a desire to want to go their way. Yet God has provided a way for you to come. And any time you want to make the turn, a loving God will save you.

MLD Woody

That is kind of fucked up, to believe in a god that petty

StinkHole

@clevfan4life said:
If only you were deep enough to understand that the logic string you just dropped is responsible for more misery and death then your mind could even conceive of. And i'm very sure that if someone walked into any church this coming Thursday and started handing out pamphlets informing people of their real lord and master, I'm talking about the spaghetti monster of course, because you know he was looking out for their souls and all....i'm very sure that would turn out just fine for the guy.

Stuart

You're so deep....in shit.

Those that Steve was referring to are responsible for misery and death? In 2015? And he wasn't talking about filthy goat fucking muslims. Who exactly then? Nearly every entity, establishment, organization, government, career field, most aimed at doing good, have had bad apples and episodes of corruption, yes and that includes RELIGION.

Are you that big of an asshole that you would scrutinize a con or ex-con for turning to religion and the bible if that's what it took for him to straighten out is life?...and scrutinize him for bible thumping to others?

Perhaps you'll find meaning in the bible for your meaningless and miserable life too. Give it a chance.

Someone quote this. I know Cleve the tough guy has me on ignore. What a pussy.

DieHardBrownsFan

@stinkhole said:

Stuart

You're so deep....in shit.

Those that Steve was referring to are responsible for misery and death? In 2015? And he wasn't talking about filthy goat fucking muslims. Who exactly then? Nearly every entity, establishment, organization, government, career field, most aimed at doing good, have had bad apples and episodes of corruption, yes and that includes RELIGION.

Are you that big of an asshole that you would scrutinize a con or ex-con for turning to religion and the bible if that's what it took for him to straighten out is life?...and scrutinize him for bible thumping to others?

Perhaps you'll find meaning in the bible for your meaningless and miserable life too. Give it a chance.

Someone quote this. I know Cleve the tough guy has me on ignore. What a pussy.

@

jbluhm86

@westside-steve said:

Just a side note for anyone bitches about using the blaze as a reference and counters it with a link to the Huffington Post...

WSS

If you're referring to me, what I posted from HP was an opinion piece. I wasn't trying to pass it off as fact, as some people on here tend to do with articles from the Blaze and such. I just thought it was a thought-provoking article, and that it did a good job of articulating what I think of the subject.

jbluhm86

@oldbrownsfan said:

It doesn't sound right but it is. We are made right with God by faith alone. Good works show we have faith but the bible is clear you are terribly mistaken if you think good works alone will give you a right standing with God. The bible says Abraham believed God and God counted it to him for righteousness (right standing)...salvation by faith is key...

@oldbrownsfan said:

BBEdward your question really does require a bible study as they are common for most people not familiar with bible teachings:

There are many scriptures showing we are saved by faith alone but it does not leave out doing good works either. What the scriptures say is that good works will follow those who have faith and if good works are not following that faith you need to examine yourself to see if your faith is dead because real faith produces good works.

Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness."

Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."

Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."

Gal. 2:21, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Gal. 3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? ⁶Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Eph. 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. ⁹Not by works, lest any man should boast."

Phil. 3:9, "and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

Again, works/Law is contrasted with faith repeatedly, and we are told that we are not justified by works in any way. Therefore, we are made right with God by faith--not by faith and our works, hence, faith alone.

***There is one scripture that seems on it's face to contradict faith alone:

James 2:24, not by faith alone

The Scriptures clearly teach that we are saved (justified) by faith in Christ and what He has done on the cross. This faith alone saves us. However, we cannot stop here without addressing what James says in James 2:24, "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

James begins this section by using the example of someone who says that he has faith but has no works, "What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14) In other words, James is addressing the issue of a dead faith--a faith that is nothing more than a verbal pronouncement, a public confession of the mind, and is not heart-felt. It is empty of life and action. He begins with the negative and demonstrates what an empty faith is (verses 15-17, words without actions).

In brief, James is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive, hence, "Faith without works is dead," (James 2:20). But, he is not contradicting the verses above that say salvation/justification is by faith alone.

Also, notice that James actually quotes the same verse that Paul quotes in Rom. 4:3 amongst a host of verses dealing with justification by faith. James 2:23 says, "and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" If James was trying to teach a contradictory doctrine of faith and works than the other New Testament writers, then he would not have used Abraham as an example. Therefore, we can see that justification is by faith alone and that James was talking about false faith--not real faith--when he said that we are not justified by faith alone.

How Can a Loving God Send People to Hell? Dr. J. Vernon McGee

The Bible doesn't say that a loving God sends anyone to hell, and yet they do go to hell. But they don't go there because God sends them; it's the only place for those who have rejected Jesus Christ and have no capacity for God whatsoever.

When you say that He's a loving God, you've only described one part of God. God also is righteous and just and holy. And if you think that you can violate all the different attributes of God and then depend on His love to save you, you're entirely wrong. Because you cannot insult and blaspheme against God. He's told us that we're sinners and cannot come into His presence, that we do not seek after God, that we're alienated from Him.

Do you think He's going to bring you into His presence when you have ignored Him and turned your back upon Him? No. He is a holy God. He had to give His Son to die on the cross for our sins, and if you're going to reject the only way He could work out for your salvation then you must understand that this is the place for you.

Don't say that a loving God sends people to hell. Say that there is a holy God, and when you do not meet His standard you cannot go into His heaven where He is. That ought to be very obvious to you. In your home I'm sure that you have a standard and there are certain people that you would not let come in. God does the same thing. You have to meet His standard if you're going to heaven.

There's only one place for the lost who have rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and that's with the devil and his demons. Don't say that a loving God is going to send you to hell - He's not. The thing that's going to send you to hell is that you're a sinner and you don't want to admit it. That's the problem with the human family. It's a self will, a desire to want to go their way. Yet God has provided a way for you to come. And any time you want to make the turn, a loving God will save you.

@jbluhm86 said:

...When people say "The Bible says..." they are typically doing one of two things. 1) They are diverting authority, and criticism, to God. It's not their opinion, it's God's. The individual thus removes themselves from the equation by associating their view as divinely inspired and approved. 2) They are appealing to common ground to persuade somebody of something...The problem is that, "The Bible says..." diverts people from engaging with their own opinions and predispositions because they turn themselves into secondary sources....

I am suggesting that if people acknowledge that the Bible doesn't actually say anything, but that every claim is their own interpretation, heavily filtered through their own life experiences, there won't be a diversion of engagement; people will actually be able to communicate person to person, about their own opinions. As soon as the shift from "The Bible says" to "I interpret the Bible as" happens, it puts the conversationalists into a dialogue about their own actual thoughts and opinions...

MLD Woody

Reason and common sense isn't going to work on OBF.

OldBrownsFan

@mld-woody said:
Reason and common sense isn't going to work on OBF.

Woody reason this out. Eternity. That is a concept I cannot fathom and neither can you. I think we can both agree it is a long long time. We as human beings live a minuscule short life at best when compared to eternity. A lifeline has been thrown to us from a man (Jesus who is God who became man) who worked miracles, said he was going to die for our sins and rise from death and prepare a place for us with Him that will last for eternity. Common sense and reason to me would be to take the lifeline that has been thrown my way especially when there are no other lifelines.

calfoxwc

Sure it would work - you dumb liberaltards never tried it....

Westside Steve

@jbluhm86 said:

If you're referring to me, what I posted from HP was an opinion piece. I wasn't trying to pass it off as fact, as some people on here tend to do with articles from the Blaze and such. I just thought it was a thought-provoking article, and that it did a good job of articulating what I think of the subject.

Just pointing out that those of different viewpoints choose different sources.

At least nobody is regularly quoting Pravda or Stormfront...

WSS

MLD Woody

@oldbrownsfan said:

Woody reason this out. Eternity. That is a concept I cannot fathom and neither can you. I think we can both agree it is a long long time. We as human beings live a minuscule short life at best when compared to eternity. A lifeline has been thrown to us from a man (Jesus who is God who became man) who worked miracles, said he was going to die for our sins and rise from death and prepare a place for us with Him that will last for eternity. Common sense and reason to me would be to take the lifeline that has been thrown my way especially when there are no other lifelines.

Dude. Your views are supported with circular logic. You don't reason and you don't use common sense. That's been shown on here many times.

The bible is truth because god wrote it. God is real because the bible says so. Do you see the flaw in that logic?

Clevfan4life

@mld-woody said:
That is kind of fucked up, to believe in a god that petty

This is what they've always done. Read the OT, it says shit like god delighted in the smell of burning flesh of sacrifices. Now....the version of the bible we've known our lives makes it specific to "animal" flesh. That in of itself is fucked. Applying that characteristic of liking the smell of a cooked steak or frying bacon, to the maker of all that is was and ever will be, is shockingly anthropomorphic and the product of the most simple and rudimentary minds that i can't even wrap my head around it. But there is some evidence that perhaps these early OT jews also sacrificed humans to their god....so it's "very" reasonable to suspect that when the bible was "edited" some time around 800AD that they made sure to take out the human part of their burning flesh loving god.

Jews are not gods chosen people, no more no less than any of us. I think Jesus, whether he was the son of god or some alien with powers I don't know and frankly i don't care...but there is plenty evidence that this dude was not at all happy with Jews and let them know how fucked they were. And that's why he landed on the cross imo.