Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I still don't think he will ever be a team leader. He's a "ME" first guy.
Once the season ends, what's the over/under on a drunk pic showing up on twitter? 3 days?
His skills on the field are average at best. His footwork is TERRIBLE, and his accuracy is lacking. Not too mention, he's still 5'11" with a slight build.
As for the people saying surround him with better players, The good QB's make the players around them better. Does it matter who Brady, Rogers, Brees, Wilson, are throwing too? NO
How often do you see a no name WR play great with a great QB?
How often do you see a highly drafted WR play great with a bad QB?
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He did not even do that well in garbage time...
I agree with what everyone has said. What worries me is we're going to ruin any chance that Manziel has by not providing him a capable team around him (sound familiar?) Christ, at one time Manziel was throwing the ball to Marlan Moore, Terrell Pryor, Jim Dray, and Travis Benjamin. But offense is just one part of it. What happens when Manziel can play with a solid defense? We got a glimpse of it against Tennessee and San Francisco. When he gets the ball back from a punt or a turnover, he starts to find a rhythm. A rhythm isn't exactly easy to find when your defense doesn't force a damn punt and the QB is sitting on the bench for extended amounts of time.
It's not easy to evaluate a young QB when the team is playing AT perhaps the toughest venue in professional sports, who just happens to have a crazy defense. And by the way, traveling to Kansas City might be the SECOND toughest place to play in the NFL, so he has THAT going for him...which is nice. And the icing on the cake is the Steelers game at home. The same Steelers team that somehow almost put up a 40 burger on the best defense in the league.
It is hard for us to evaluate a QB based upon a one-time, real-time, broadcast view. It is not when you have an All-22 cut-down and 24 hours.
Excepting his feet, JM is showing most of what you want to see in a QB prospect. I can let yesterday's fumble go as a one-off, flash regression since his ball position has been much improved this year. I can't give credit for mastering play-calling late in a sophomore season. There was a lot of frantic clapping going on yesterday... some starting with 5 seconds on the play clock while our Center was still communicating line calls.
I thought the contrast between JM and Wilson was interesting especially when it came to their scrambling. JM just looked "frantic" in comparison. My impression was that this was symptomatic of their relative game speed perceptions, i.e., the game has yet to fully slow down for JM. It still may...
Additionally as I've written elsewhere, JM is not yet anticipating throws. This is the big hurdle to attaining "franchise" status. Displaying anticipation does not require a better defense, a close game or even an improved WR corps... it does not even require completions.
Not sure what triggers "anticipation" unless it's something akin to visualizing a golf shot, except at hyper speed. But I'm willing to bet it is a switch that suddenly clicks and the light goes on...
Bottom line: Mind is not changed yet, but two weeks to go...
He did not even do that well in garbage time...
It is hard for us to evaluate a QB based upon a one-time, real-time, broadcast view. It is not when you have an All-22 cut-down and 24 hours.
Excepting his feet, JM is showing most of what you want to see in a QB prospect. I can let yesterday's fumble go as a one-off, flash regression since his ball position has been much improved this year. I can't give credit for mastering play-calling late in a sophomore season. There was a lot of frantic clapping going on yesterday... some starting with 5 seconds on the play clock while our Center was still communicating line calls.
I thought the contrast between JM and Wilson was interesting especially when it came to their scrambling. JM just looked "frantic" in comparison. My impression was that this was symptomatic of their relative game speed perceptions, i.e., the game has yet to fully slow down for JM. It still may...
Additionally as I've written elsewhere, JM is not yet anticipating throws. This is the big hurdle to attaining "franchise" status. Displaying anticipation does not require a better defense, a close game or even an improved WR corps... it does not even require completions.
Not sure what triggers "anticipation" unless it's something akin to visualizing a golf shot, except at hyper speed. But I'm willing to bet it is a switch that suddenly clicks and the light goes on...
Bottom line: Mind is not changed yet, but two weeks to go...
I agree, I saw improvement, especially on the first drive.
That game was a fair comparison on how far Johnny has to go to get to Russell Wilson's level. He's not close yet- (I did see a few flashes). But dammit, we wasted a year of potential development trotting busted ribs McCown out there until he was so beat up he couldn't play anymore.
It's crap like that, that has me wondering if Pettine is smart enough to be a HC in the NFL. OMG, Bowe actually caught a couple balls yesterday- four more, and we're down to $1 million per catch.
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OH Ghoolie to never have anything to add to a conversation must be pathetic. You freak out when people forget about you and then attack the best player on the team. there was a name for you we had back in the day..... um.....oh yeah a BITCH. U must know so much about football to bust JT's balls when every other player in the league has voted Thomas the #18 Best Football Player in the game.
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Johnny is already showing he can win games in the NFL. IF he can avoid major off-field mistakes, he will be a good qb. I hope he stays with the Browns to do that.
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He hasn't changed my mind yet. Even though his WRs dropped 3 or 4 throws, it looked like the rest of the game was simply dump off throws (after the 1st drive). I don't know what to think about him, I just hope he stays clean in the off season, and the team gets healthier, adds some talent to help whoever the QB is in 2016.
I'd look at the QB from Indiana, Sudfeld and draft him after getting some D help and a tall WR.
This season has turned into such a disaster. The offense is just to easy to defend right now, and the defense can't stop anybody.
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I dig irony...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I'm sure the starting quarterback of a team is going to say he doesn't want the head coach to return......
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VesnaKociper said:
Larry, have you been injecting Manitol Salt Agar into your veins? You are WONDERING IF PETTINE........???????????? Let me ask you bro, are you also wondering if you will wake up tomorrow and have a third testicle growing out of your taint? Are you wondering if Zombo will ever become a Steeler fan? Maybe you are wondering if Stan and I are ever going to be runway models for Hanes underwear?
Pettine is the Barney Fife of NFL coaches.
Even Lew Merletti wants to throw bottles at that cocksucker.
LOL Tom. If they shit-can Pettine the day after the season is over- believe me I won't get upset. We'll see if Ray the Farmer gets shown the door too. As was said, the Browns are shit because they've pretty much drafted like shit for the last 5 years. Since they took Haden and Ward in 2010, it's been a freaking disaster. We passed on Julio Jones and JJ Watt to take Phil Taylor- who's out of football. EDIT: forgot to mention the double busts Richardson & Wee-done. Next we take Barky Mingo, who's yet to live up to his draft status. 2014, we decide to take Justin Gilbert instead of Odell Beckham, and get our current Pipsqueak QB. I still have faint hope Manziel won't be total crap. I say you can't grade a player after just one year, but it's not like Sheldon and Erving are setting the league on fire. For your enjoyment, you can watch Erving getting knocked flat on his ass. Hey Joe T didn't get beat on that play.
I think some Internet wag put it- "The Browns are a couple of years away from being a couple of years away."
BTW, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ya.
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Hell's Bells hoorta that was the best tackle any Brown made all day. Leave the kid alone.
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JM will not change Pettines mind if Josh or both our still around so our opinion is not shit till Haslem speaks at season ends. Cardell Jones keep sliding back.
Cardell Jones keep sliding back.
For very good reasons. Drafting a falling QB just because they're falling or you like their size or both is how you end up with Brady Quinn, or Johnny Manziel, or Blaine Gabbert, or Brandon Weeden, or Colt McCoy or a bunch of other guys whose names we don't remember because they weren't good enough.
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VesnaKociper said:
Larry, have you been injecting Manitol Salt Agar into your veins? You are WONDERING IF PETTINE........???????????? Let me ask you bro, are you also wondering if you will wake up tomorrow and have a third testicle growing out of your taint? Are you wondering if Zombo will ever become a Steeler fan? Maybe you are wondering if Stan and I are ever going to be runway models for Hanes underwear?
Pettine is the Barney Fife of NFL coaches.
Even Lew Merletti wants to throw bottles at that cocksucker.
LOL Tom. If they shit-can Pettine the day after the season is over- believe me I won't get upset. We'll see if Ray the Farmer gets shown the door too. As was said, the Browns are shit because they've pretty much drafted like shit for the last 5 years. Since they took Haden and Ward in 2010, it's been a freaking disaster. We passed on Julio Jones and JJ Watt to take Phil Taylor- who's out of football. EDIT: forgot to mention the double busts Richardson & Wee-done. Next we take Barky Mingo, who's yet to live up to his draft status. 2014, we decide to take Justin Gilbert instead of Odell Beckham, and get our current Pipsqueak QB. I still have faint hope Manziel won't be total crap. I say you can't grade a player after just one year, but it's not like Sheldon and Erving are setting the league on fire. For your enjoyment, you can watch Erving getting knocked flat on his ass. Hey Joe T didn't get beat on that play.
I think some Internet wag put it- "The Browns are a couple of years away from being a couple of years away."
BTW, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ya.
LOL Tom. If they shit-can Pettine the day after the season is over- believe me I won't get upset. We'll see if Ray the Farmer gets shown the door too. As was said, the Browns are shit because they've pretty much drafted like shit for the last 5 years. Since they took Haden and Ward in 2010, it's been a freaking disaster. We passed on Julio Jones and JJ Watt to take Phil Taylor- who's out of football. EDIT: forgot to mention the double busts Richardson & Wee-done. Next we take Barky Mingo, who's yet to live up to his draft status. 2014, we decide to take Justin Gilbert instead of Odell Beckham, and get our current Pipsqueak QB. I still have faint hope Manziel won't be total crap. I say you can't grade a player after just one year, but it's not like Sheldon and Erving are setting the league on fire. For your enjoyment, you can watch Erving getting knocked flat on his ass. Hey Joe T didn't get beat on that play.
I think some Internet wag put it- "The Browns are a couple of years away from being a couple of years away."
BTW, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ya.
Um...I think I need a hug.
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On that play, notice how if Erving holds up, Crowell has an easy 5 yard gain before the LB meets him, and if he follows Mack's second level block, maybe even more, and that's before you consider him breaking a tackle.
Schematically, it looks like Mack's giving a little chip to help Erving win the initial battle before heading out to the second level - perhaps we need to change that to help Erving...
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On that play, notice how if Erving holds up, Crowell has an easy 5 yard gain before the LB meets him, and if he follows Mack's second level block, maybe even more, and that's before you consider him breaking a tackle.
Schematically, it looks like Mack's giving a little chip to help Erving win the initial battle before heading out to the second level - perhaps we need to change that to help Erving...
On that play, notice how if Erving holds up, Crowell has an easy 5 yard gain before the LB meets him, and if he follows Mack's second level block, maybe even more, and that's before you consider him breaking a tackle.
Schematically, it looks like Mack's giving a little chip to help Erving win the initial battle before heading out to the second level - perhaps we need to change that to help Erving...
Funny thing is, if Mack doesn't release to next level and just pounds Erving's guy, Crow's going to get positive yards. Is it possible that Mack screwed up? Was the play REALLY meant to have Erving one on one against that guy? If Mack brings the pain, Crow can shoot straight up and to the right for 3-5 yards.
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If you look at how the play develops, you can see Mack's just throwing a casual arm out there to help, but is straight away looking in to the next level.
What the assignment was we of course can't say - maybe Tour, who's looked at every running play we've made this season - can tell us if this is something out of the ordinary, but it's impossible to say for certain either way.
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VesnaKociper said:
Larry, have you been injecting Manitol Salt Agar into your veins? You are WONDERING IF PETTINE........???????????? Let me ask you bro, are you also wondering if you will wake up tomorrow and have a third testicle growing out of your taint? Are you wondering if Zombo will ever become a Steeler fan? Maybe you are wondering if Stan and I are ever going to be runway models for Hanes underwear?
Pettine is the Barney Fife of NFL coaches.
Even Lew Merletti wants to throw bottles at that cocksucker.
LOL Tom. If they shit-can Pettine the day after the season is over- believe me I won't get upset. We'll see if Ray the Farmer gets shown the door too. As was said, the Browns are shit because they've pretty much drafted like shit for the last 5 years. Since they took Haden and Ward in 2010, it's been a freaking disaster. We passed on Julio Jones and JJ Watt to take Phil Taylor- who's out of football. EDIT: forgot to mention the double busts Richardson & Wee-done. Next we take Barky Mingo, who's yet to live up to his draft status. 2014, we decide to take Justin Gilbert instead of Odell Beckham, and get our current Pipsqueak QB. I still have faint hope Manziel won't be total crap. I say you can't grade a player after just one year, but it's not like Sheldon and Erving are setting the league on fire. For your enjoyment, you can watch Erving getting knocked flat on his ass. Hey Joe T didn't get beat on that play.
I think some Internet wag put it- "The Browns are a couple of years away from being a couple of years away."
BTW, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ya.
LOL Tom. If they shit-can Pettine the day after the season is over- believe me I won't get upset. We'll see if Ray the Farmer gets shown the door too. As was said, the Browns are shit because they've pretty much drafted like shit for the last 5 years. Since they took Haden and Ward in 2010, it's been a freaking disaster. We passed on Julio Jones and JJ Watt to take Phil Taylor- who's out of football. EDIT: forgot to mention the double busts Richardson & Wee-done. Next we take Barky Mingo, who's yet to live up to his draft status. 2014, we decide to take Justin Gilbert instead of Odell Beckham, and get our current Pipsqueak QB. I still have faint hope Manziel won't be total crap. I say you can't grade a player after just one year, but it's not like Sheldon and Erving are setting the league on fire. For your enjoyment, you can watch Erving getting knocked flat on his ass. Hey Joe T didn't get beat on that play.
I think some Internet wag put it- "The Browns are a couple of years away from being a couple of years away."
BTW, Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ya.
He would have a nice hole if Erving hadn't got blown up like a boy among men.
Don't know why they try that delayed draw so much though, get Crow going downhill and let him hit the hole.
Zombo
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Cant say JF has changed my mind....but it was never made up to begin with.....
Still waiting to be impressed, cause he just looks "ok" to me.....but much less depressed, at least, compared to how he started.....
Cant say JF has changed my mind....but it was never made up to begin with.....
Still waiting to be impressed, cause he just looks "ok" to me.....but much less depressed, at least, compared to how he started.....
That's a pretty good description to me. I think what gets me excited is the difference from last year. His rookie season was basically good for nothing, and he didn't get that much needed "rookie development" out of the way. What's worse, he really didn't get it THIS year either due to McCown starting so many games. As I previously stated, I see WHY Pettine did that, but it doesn't make sense for the long term. Throwing Manziel in against Seattle, K.C., and Pittsburgh isn't exactly a great way to evaluate a guy. At least we got San Fran, but there are many other games I would've loved to see Johnny play in. But honestly, does it matter when the defense gives up a 100 points a game?
I've seen enough of Johnny to know that I want to see more. And I DON'T want to take a QB in the top five of the draft. No way.
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I agree jiggins
How ironic it would be if the Browns prematurely trade him off to Dallas, which does have a truly excellent OL, and then have to watch him replace Mr. Brittle in the next 2-3 years.
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