Jonathan Paul Manziel

Mudfly

And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_joe_thomas_and_gary_bar.html#incart_social_feature

Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...

Here's another one.....with a poll too.....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/is_mike_pettine_or_ray_farmer.html#incart_river_index

letsgojackets

@tour2ma said:
I dig irony...

I spit coffee on my keyboard jerk.

TexasAg1969

@texasag1969 said:

I agree jiggins

How ironic it would be if the Browns prematurely trade him off to Dallas, which does have a truly excellent OL, and then have to watch him replace Mr. Brittle in the next 2-3 years.

Speaking of which Chris Mortensen just said on Sports Center that he thought Jerry Jones would try to get JM at a discount in the off season.

jiggins7919

This is all pretty common. You might hear some "unnamed sources" that start bickering, but generally the players will say they want the coaching staff to come back. I think the main reason is that they don't want to learn ALL NEW shit again, and they'd like to feel at least a little bit of continuity.

I'm not against Pettine coming back. He's a first time coach, and I'd like to see what he can do with some damn talent around him. Now, O'NEIL can go kick rocks, and honestly, I'd like to see Farmer gone. I can't bear the thought of that guy running another draft.

Pumpkin Eater

They don't want to be viewed in a bad light by the new coach.

The Gipper

Is it too surprising that the players would say they want Pettine back.....and actually mean it.

Sorry, but it seems that these players, especially the veterans have been give a cakewalk. All reports were that Pettine ran a cream puff training camp.....and gives the vets days off even during the most critical parts of the week when the team is trying to install its game plan.

Maybe that is why they seem so unprepared.

And as long as the paychecks come rolling in....why would these guys want things tougher on themselves?

The Gipper

@texasag1969 said:

Speaking of which Chris Mortensen just said on Sports Center that he thought Jerry Jones would try to get JM at a discount in the off season.

Well, that is more evidence of the stupidity of JJ.....he would have to pay more since he announced that he wants him.

Tour2ma

Discount? AS in only a 2nd rounder?

@gftchris said:

If you look at how the play develops, you can see Mack's just throwing a casual arm out there to help, but is straight away looking in to the next level.

What the assignment was we of course can't say - maybe Tour, who's looked at every running play we've made this season - can tell us if this is something out of the ordinary, but it's impossible to say for certain either way.

Why do I feel like the Browns OL equivalent of Life cereal Mikey?

cam-heyward-cam-erving.gif?w=1000

Like I said repeatedly when I was grading, there was often a single failure... this is a great case.

Look at Erving... his set is not bad here. He's not too high. Waist bend is a bit much, but that yields rips not getting bulled on your ass... and while Heyward is damn good, he's not that much of a beast, and Erving is not that weak. Check Erving's stance and while a bit wide... whoa... there it is!

Look closely and you will see that Mack stepped on Cam's right foot... Cam was in the process of setting in a passpro look to escort Heyward's inside rush harmlessly to the inside. Erving's wide feet contributed, but Mack's were as wide or wider.

This draw was supposed to go between Cam and Joe T. and then to the left from there. Mack's set up, looking to seal off the inside, after he released says the later. The free rusher outside Joe T. and the unaccounted for Safety at top right (Allen #20) takeaway the Off tackle left and RG paths respectively.

So Mack can stay on the double team, but Allen will fill... not to mention the LB Greco overruns after releasing. In Greco's defense he is anticipating the LB pursuing to the left.

My guess is that Mack's chip was designed to sell the pass look and invite Heyward to fight the double-team. If Heyward does so, then his inside path is more assured, but instead he has a Clowney moment thanks to a stepped on foot.

Had the foot not been stepped upon? Not sure Joe sustained his block long enough for Crow to get cleanly by without Joe holding. Joe's rusher shaded inside just enough... probably because of the outside blitz.

As for why the draw? My guess is down and distance.

Mudfly

I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....

But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....

So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....

So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....

I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....

hoorta

@mudfly said:

And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_joe_thomas_and_gary_bar.html#incart_social_feature

Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...

Here's another one.....with a poll too.....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/is_mike_pettine_or_ray_farmer.html#incart_river_index

& if you voted in the poll it's about nine to one Farmer is the culprit.

The Gipper

@mudfly said:

I hear this ^^ and I hear people complaining about poor tackling and miss timed passing routes etc.....

But here is the truth.....4 years ago the CBA eliminated 5 weeks of practice.....it eliminated 2 a days....it eliminated the right for players to use the facility during the off season.....it eliminated CONTACT from practice, except for 1 hr per week.....and it eliminated afternoons from training camp....

So....they cannot practice tackling....and only get about 10-15 minutes a day to work on contact drills.....thats it.....

So its up to the players to know how to tackle, etc.....and its up to the players to train on their own in the off season....and by giving guys like Joe Thomas and Karlos Dansby an occassional day off(guys who ALWAYS perform, btw) ....it allows some of the younger guys and guys struggling to get the very few reps that are available.....

I honstly dont think people realize that since 2011, practice time has been cut by almost 70%....and contact has been cut even more.....

And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.

hoorta

@jiggins7919 said:

Um...I think I need a hug.

You could say based on statistical odds, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board should hit 25% getting a great player in the first round, and a pretty good one another 20% of the time.

@the-gipper said:
Well, that is more evidence of the stupidity of JJ.....he would have to pay more since he announced that he wants him.

Not only that Gip- IIRC, it could be construed as tampering.

The Gipper

@hoorta said:

You could say based on statistical odds, a blind monkey throwing darts at a draft board should hit 25% getting a great player in the first round, and a pretty good one another 20% of the time.

Not only that Gip- IIRC, it could be construed as tampering.

Maybe we can get a draft pick out of them.....and not even give up JFF!

Can a team lose a draft pick for violating the tampering rule? And if they do can that pick be given to the team that owned the player they tampered with?

That should be the rule......it would sure put a complete end to any tampering, wouldn't it.

Mudfly

@the-gipper said:
And the game has suffered for it in my opinion.

Agreed......there are a million articles on it and some are pretty interesting....one of the ones I read had bunch of players(not Browns) laughing and talking about how easy practices have become....like its a joke...

It was supposed to diminish injuries, but some studies are showing an increase in certain injuries like muscle strains, ligament damage, etc......and they are implying its due to less "full speed" training.....(can you say hamstring?)...anyway...it is what it is and its showing up in a lot of ways.....

nickers

@hoorta said:

& if you voted in the poll it's about nine to one Farmer is the culprit.

I'm for retaining Pettine if it indeed means Farmer's ouster and a new DC put in place

bigbaddawgjr

Manzgina sucks at the most can be a backup QB. Even that is pushing it. We need to draft a QB who is tall and can see over the line and can take a hit or two.

browns52

@bbedward said:

Manziel did OK - given the opponent and venue. He didn't have much help, but did make some poor reads and decisions - also threw high and behind on some of the longer throws.

We have two more games yet though, so let's see what happens after that. If he beats Pittsburgh in Cleveland in January then I'll be feeling better about him.

The main thing the premature circle jerkers after last week that said the team was way more energized and better and running game was opened up by Manziel learned something though. That is, not every team is the 2015 49ers.

yeah well, he ain't beating the steelers all by himself. that would mean he'd have to rush for about 240 yds and 3 td's by his lonesome just to keep the game somewhat close.That offense over there in pennsylvania may end up being the best ever when all said and done and if they get a defense to come close to their offense look out. And by the way, their d is starting to gel a little already. They are just somewhat inconsistant but if they keep improving, they may end up in the superbowl. I don't think the pats can completely stop them. Bbedward, our defense stinks so bad, that johnny doesn't stand a chance to win this game.

Westside Steve

Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.

I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.

Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.

WSS

browns52

@mudfly said:

And, now, Thomas, Barnidge and Whitner are all stepping up for Coach Pettine.....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/browns_joe_thomas_and_gary_bar.html#incart_social_feature

Waiting for the article about all the (unnamed sources)players who want him gone..... ...

Here's another one.....with a poll too.....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/is_mike_pettine_or_ray_farmer.html#incart_river_index

need to watch what you ask for...i totally remember joe thomas saying " I think we finally got this thing turned around" during shurmers 3rd season. Hmmmmm, how did that work out???

browns52

@westside-steve said:

Here's how my mind has changed for what it's worth. When we drafted Johnny I expected great things. I was disappointed when the first season didn't deliver great things and I worried that he might not be able to play in the NFL. This season I have changed my mind and believe that he can play and play well with the proper support.

I don't know how much evidence we'll be able to glean from the next two games with terrible defensive backs, no starting guards, which I believe are imperative to success, and with the likes of Dwayne Bowe and Terrelle Pryor to throw to.

Hopefully Mike Pettine prove me wrong and Johnny proves the haters wrong and next season is a pleasant surprise.

WSS

fucking trent dilfer won a superbowl with the proper support, so anything is possible that is if we get the support we need...