Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
I always get a chuckle out of the Browns continued search for the next ex-Browns QB. Stick with one that at least the best players on the team think has the long term talent. I think I will defer to Joe Thomas and friends rather than the Brownsboard that is obviously gunshy. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziel_has_won_over_ev.html
I always get a chuckle out of the Browns continued search for the next ex-Browns QB. Stick with one that at least the best players on the team think has the long term talent. I think I will defer to Joe Thomas and friends rather than the Brownsboard that is obviously gunshy. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziel_has_won_over_ev.html
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny, improve the defense, and make it happen. The real issue with our team is the defense. Nothing matters until we stop giving up 30 points a game. I want to see Johnny play in a game where he gets the ball back, where the game is close, and where we need him to execute a fourth quarter drive to win us the game.
-
I always get a chuckle out of the Browns continued search for the next ex-Browns QB. Stick with one that at least the best players on the team think has the long term talent. I think I will defer to Joe Thomas and friends rather than the Brownsboard that is obviously gunshy. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/12/johnny_manziel_has_won_over_ev.html
. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
-
some fun #'s on our coaches for the last 10 years....
Crennel.... 4yrs....64 games....24-40 for an average of....6-10
Mangini....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of....5-11(-1 game)
Shurmur...2 yrs....32 games.....9-23 for an average of ....4.5 - 11.5 (-0.5 games)
Chud.........1 yr....16 games......4-12 for a average of...... 4-12 (-0.5 games)
Pettine.....2 yrs....32 games....10-22 for an average of.... 5-11 (+1 game)....(assuming he loses the last 2 of course)
So not too much difference, but definitely a downward trend from Crennel to Chud....but, at least Pettine is the first to buck that trend....even if only by a game....
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
Those numbers are fun??? I think you need some new hobbies if that's "fun".
Ha!....yeah, actually, they are......
Had to find a way to turn my misery into something positive.....so I dig and dig just looking for small slivers of light....
Otherwise, it's all doom and gloom......which aint fun.....
-
. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
Oh, I think we'll know by draft time if JM can get the off field issue resolved or not, because if it's not, he has shown no ability whatsoever to hide it.
-
. My only concern at this point remains his off field problem. It need to see better evidence that he is taking that seriously as well. I think we will have that answer before the next draft one way or the other.
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
You nailed it, Tex. Unfortunately, the "off the field problems" are extremely real, and we've been burnt before by other talented players. I still say to roll the dice with Gordon and Johnny
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
Not sure that we will have the answer before the draft.....maybe more like the end of 2016.....but lets find out, cause we are neck deep already.....
Yep.....Id grudgingly say the same......all the drama makes me tired. but we've come this far, so lets get em on the field and see if "1 year older and wiser" is reality.....
Whoever is coach is probably gonna have some say in this.....so, Pettine?.....Id say he'd want them back, even with all he's had to deal with.....simply because he's like a parent who has put in the effort to straighten up his wayward child.....now, maybe, it's time to enjoy the adult???
Or.....maybe not.....ha!
I think you might be on to something there. Can you imagine the fury in Pettine if he's fired, then some new coach comes in with his D staff, keeps flip, and Manziel plays lights out?
-
Oh, I think we'll know by draft time if JM can get the off field issue resolved or not, because if it's not, he has show no ability whatsoever to hide it.
Yeah...I miss read that.....and I agree about the off the field stuff.....the long lay off will reveal where he is at.....
Can you imagine the fury in Pettine if he's fired, then some new coach comes in with his D staff, keeps flip, and Manziel plays lights out?
Ha!.....something to keep him awake at night.........for years to come......
-
I don't think anyone here actually believes that the recent "off the field " problems have contributed one way or the other toward his progression as a professional quarterback.
Some of you will argue that the fact that he wasn't honest with the staff are egregious but still even you you have to convince yourselves that the action of being out for a night hampered his actual progress.
I would imagine that there will be photo ops between the Super Bowl and the opening of training camp which will probably freak some people here out.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Oh, I think we'll know by draft time if JM can get the off field issue resolved or not, because if it's not, he has show no ability whatsoever to hide it.
Yeah...I miss read that.....and I agree about the off the field stuff.....the long lay off will reveal where he is at.....
Can you imagine the fury in Pettine if he's fired, then some new coach comes in with his D staff, keeps flip, and Manziel plays lights out?
Ha!.....something to keep him awake at night.........for years to come......
And as much of an I told you so moment that might be hope it doesn't happen. I hope everyone stays in place and the cards fall in our favor next season for everyone.Yeah...I miss read that.....and I agree about the off the field stuff.....the long lay off will reveal where he is at.....
Ha!.....something to keep him awake at night.........for years to come......
WSS
-
I don't think anyone here actually believes that the recent "off the field " problems have contributed one way or the other toward his progression as a professional quarterback.
Some of you will argue that the fact that he wasn't honest with the staff are egregious but still even you you have to convince yourselves that the action of being out for a night hampered his actual progress.
I would imagine that there will be photo ops between the Super Bowl and the opening of training camp which will probably freak some people here out.
WSS
... you have to convince yourselves that the action of being out for a night hampered his actual progress.
Steve,
No, I do not have to convince myself of any such thing.
Hope y'all are sitting because (shocker) I'm going the other way...
JM pissed away 2014. Nothing changes that. By contrast 2015 had been a joy. Then came the lie... that's a whole new level of mistrust that require a whole new level of promise to be demonstrated in the closing games. So far I haven't seen it in 2 games.
But that's only half my equation...
If I become convinced that there's a low maintenance QB with a high degree of franchise potential in the 2016 draft, I pull the trigger.
-
... you have to convince yourselves that the action of being out for a night hampered his actual progress.
Steve,
No, I do not have to convince myself of any such thing.
Hope y'all are sitting because (shocker) I'm going the other way...
JM pissed away 2014. Nothing changes that. By contrast 2015 had been a joy. Then came the lie... that's a whole new level of mistrust that require a whole new level of promise to be demonstrated in the closing games. So far I haven't seen it in 2 games.
But that's only half my equation...
If I become convinced that there's a low maintenance QB with a high degree of franchise potential in the 2016 draft, I pull the trigger.
If I become convinced that there's a low maintenance QB with a high degree of franchise potential in the 2016 draft, I pull the trigger.
LOL! Good luck with that. So far I certainly have not seen one "with a high degree of franchise potential". We all would have been hearing rave reviews well before now a la Manning or Luck.
-
Manning and Luck were lead-pipe-cinch, franchise prospects with unquestioned performance floors. Both had demonstrated the ability to consistently throw with anticipation in college. The only discussion around them was how high was their ceiling.
I am not talking about odds that high. As of now I do not need odds anywhere near that high to surpass JM's potential... but there are 2 games to go.
-
Aha - A different definition of "high franchise potential" than mine. I was assuming you meant like the last 3 QB's taken in the top 3 since that is where we will be picking. And if we take one of those out there this year as our top choice that is looking like it will be that high, then we have done the classic "reach", not BPA.
-
There ya go...
For me "franchise" is a third tier designation... what you were thinking would be my "elite" candidate.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
There ya go...
For me "franchise" is a third tier designation... what you were thinking would be my "elite" candidate.
There ya go...
For me "franchise" is a third tier designation... what you were thinking would be my "elite" candidate.
Second tier?
-
Second tier?
I'm open to Tier names as I don't have a good one for it, but like Flugs listed in another thread there are a few members.
I'd put Wilson in the 2nd tier with Brees, Palmer, and Newton. Luck can go either way but Indy doesn't look like a safe place to play QB right now.
I think Rivers and Eli may belong in there as well. Members can definitely show elite stuff... just may be a matter of showing it over a longer period of time.
Tier 3: The Franchise guys... Bunch of good, solid QBs here like Flacco that will be provide years of good play and with the right cast around them can take their team very far.
Tier 4: The Placeholders...
Tier 5: The Auditioners...
-
@NateUlrichABJ
#Browns QB Johnny Manziel said he has ton of respect for Pettine, whether I liked demotion or not, it wasn't coach's fault I did what I did
-
Aw, man... just as the decision was getting easier...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
... you have to convince yourselves that the action of being out for a night hampered his actual progress.
Steve,
No, I do not have to convince myself of any such thing.
Hope y'all are sitting because (shocker) I'm going the other way...
JM pissed away 2014. Nothing changes that. By contrast 2015 had been a joy. Then came the lie... that's a whole new level of mistrust that require a whole new level of promise to be demonstrated in the closing games. So far I haven't seen it in 2 games.
But that's only half my equation...
If I become convinced that there's a low maintenance QB with a high degree of franchise potential in the 2016 draft, I pull the trigger.
Steve,
No, I do not have to convince myself of any such thing.
Hope y'all are sitting because (shocker) I'm going the other way...
JM pissed away 2014. Nothing changes that. By contrast 2015 had been a joy. Then came the lie... that's a whole new level of mistrust that require a whole new level of promise to be demonstrated in the closing games. So far I haven't seen it in 2 games.
But that's only half my equation...
If I become convinced that there's a low maintenance QB with a high degree of franchise potential in the 2016 draft, I pull the trigger.
LOL
I sat down for nothing.
WSS
-
He did not even do that well in garbage time...
I agree with what everyone has said. What worries me is we're going to ruin any chance that Manziel has by not providing him a capable team around him (sound familiar?) Christ, at one time Manziel was throwing the ball to Marlan Moore, Terrell Pryor, Jim Dray, and Travis Benjamin. But offense is just one part of it. What happens when Manziel can play with a solid defense? We got a glimpse of it against Tennessee and San Francisco. When he gets the ball back from a punt or a turnover, he starts to find a rhythm. A rhythm isn't exactly easy to find when your defense doesn't force a damn punt and the QB is sitting on the bench for extended amounts of time.
It's not easy to evaluate a young QB when the team is playing AT perhaps the toughest venue in professional sports, who just happens to have a crazy defense. And by the way, traveling to Kansas City might be the SECOND toughest place to play in the NFL, so he has THAT going for him...which is nice. And the icing on the cake is the Steelers game at home. The same Steelers team that somehow almost put up a 40 burger on the best defense in the league.
It is hard for us to evaluate a QB based upon a one-time, real-time, broadcast view. It is not when you have an All-22 cut-down and 24 hours.
Excepting his feet, JM is showing most of what you want to see in a QB prospect. I can let yesterday's fumble go as a one-off, flash regression since his ball position has been much improved this year. I can't give credit for mastering play-calling late in a sophomore season. There was a lot of frantic clapping going on yesterday... some starting with 5 seconds on the play clock while our Center was still communicating line calls.
I thought the contrast between JM and Wilson was interesting especially when it came to their scrambling. JM just looked "frantic" in comparison. My impression was that this was symptomatic of their relative game speed perceptions, i.e., the game has yet to fully slow down for JM. It still may...
Additionally as I've written elsewhere, JM is not yet anticipating throws. This is the big hurdle to attaining "franchise" status. Displaying anticipation does not require a better defense, a close game or even an improved WR corps... it does not even require completions.
Not sure what triggers "anticipation" unless it's something akin to visualizing a golf shot, except at hyper speed. But I'm willing to bet it is a switch that suddenly clicks and the light goes on...
Bottom line: Mind is not changed yet, but two weeks to go...
Not sure what triggers "anticipation" unless it's something akin to visualizing a golf shot, except at hyper speed. But I'm willing to bet it is a switch that suddenly clicks and the light goes on...
It's honestly a combination of things. Knowledge of the playbook, route concepts, chemistry with receivers combined with diagnosing the defense while coming off your reads yet staying in rhythm and being accurate.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login