Jonathan Paul Manziel
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great QB's have always had receivers that made them both great. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc., have always had caliber receivers.
Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Brees won the SB with Colston [7th round] and Devery Henderson [total of 20 TD's in his entire career] starting at WR. At TE that year, NO started... Jeremy Shockey, not Graham.
But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game.
By some magical coincidence, each and every one of Manziel's games are bad games.. when you analyze the tape.
He can't go through a progression. He can't throw to the open man. That's who he is. Will someone else "see something" and "convince themselves he can be coached up" ? I hope so! Just like the TRich trade, I hope manziel brings us a first. But does Manziel have actual skill? Nope. Done. Next.
Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
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Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
And JFF admitted post game he sucked. He knew it, and owned up to his poor performance. If he continues, with or without the Browns, and becomes a decent QB, he will have other bad games. It happens. He's shown progress and documented by many on this board. Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
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Seriously, what are you talking about?
"Owning Up To It" doesn't mean jack. Knowledge is not half the battle-- knowledge is the realization that you're beginning the battle.
He has shown zero progress on going through the progression and finding the open receiver -- as documented by many on this board.
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Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
And JFF admitted post game he sucked. He knew it, and owned up to his poor performance. If he continues, with or without the Browns, and becomes a decent QB, he will have other bad games. It happens. He's shown progress and documented by many on this board. Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
And JFF admitted post game he sucked. ...... Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
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If Cleveland hadn't already loaded up on not-terrible FA QB's, Ryan Mallett looked yesterday [for the first time ever] like the QB everyone always projected him to be.
Think quick: Who would you rather have right now, Manziel or Mallett? Yep, I'd take Mallett also.
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I'm thinking Paxton Lynch.
I'm thinking Paxton Lynch.
If you think Johnny has bad mechanics, wait until you watch Paxton's windup and eye movement.
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And JFF admitted post game he sucked. ...... Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
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Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
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Benji is okay he is literally just fast. He is not a playmaker. Why browns fans hype an average slot player is beyond me.
Benji is okay he is literally just fast. He is not a playmaker. Why browns fans hype an average slot player is beyond me.
because compared to what we have had since 99, he's a pot of gold.
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I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
I guess... What I see is in this forum are men pulling out their "I'm-still-in-5th-Grade" card and tossing around 5th grade insults at objectivity or opinions that differ from certain people on this forum.
If anyone says something that is not popular, immediate name calling and insults ensues. This is a good forum, fun at times, but damn it can be tiring when a decent thread turns into playground insult contest.
Does anyone care that Pryor was inactive yesterday? Does anyone care that Bowie was the team captain? There are other things going on with this team that deserve some conversation. JFF had a poor throwing game yesterday, we all agree with that. He probably lost the game. But there are some other absurdities going on. As much as we need continuity, hell, when I hear that Pettine makes decisions to make Bowie a captain and leaves Pryor inactive.... I have to smh.
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Our resident genius analyst.
Ok, should we revisit this in two years, or do you want to tell me right now where my analysis is wrong?
Please don't start with the guards. Name all of the teams with Pro Bowl Left Tackles and Centers and tell me why their 5'11 quarterback can't throw an out to save his life.
Z
Zombo said:
Ok, should we revisit this in two years, or do you want to tell me right now where my analysis is wrong?
Please don't start with the guards. Name all of the teams with Pro Bowl Left Tackles and Centers and tell me why their 5'11 quarterback can't throw an out to save his life.
Z
fucking mack got his ass kicked this yr...i tivo alot of plays...he fucking stunk this yr, proving this probowl shit is a comedy club. as far as thomas..i don't think he was all that great either...not as bad as mack though..
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Well, let's investigate Ghoolie's contention that "Running QBs are all shit". Here is the list of the Top Ten rushing QBs of all time:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/gallery?id=5208880
Three of the ten are in the HOF: Steve Young, Elway, Tarkenton. Three of them could be considered borderline for the HOF: McNabb, McNair, Cunningham.
Then their is Vick, Harbaugh, Landry, and Ghoolie's favorite Queerdell.
After yesterday it may seem fair to call JFF a "running QB"......but honestly....I would hope that he would perform in the manner of several of these guys. Ten Superbowl appearances. Three wins. (maybe he is saying that the odds are not good for a running QB that appears in a SB to win it.....fair enough)
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Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
I guess... What I see is in this forum are men pulling out their "I'm-still-in-5th-Grade" card and tossing around 5th grade insults at objectivity or opinions that differ from certain people on this forum.
If anyone says something that is not popular, immediate name calling and insults ensues. This is a good forum, fun at times, but damn it can be tiring when a decent thread turns into playground insult contest.
Does anyone care that Pryor was inactive yesterday? Does anyone care that Bowie was the team captain? There are other things going on with this team that deserve some conversation. JFF had a poor throwing game yesterday, we all agree with that. He probably lost the game. But there are some other absurdities going on. As much as we need continuity, hell, when I hear that Pettine makes decisions to make Bowie a captain and leaves Pryor inactive.... I have to smh.
I guess... What I see is in this forum are men pulling out their "I'm-still-in-5th-Grade" card and tossing around 5th grade insults at objectivity or opinions that differ from certain people on this forum.
If anyone says something that is not popular, immediate name calling and insults ensues. This is a good forum, fun at times, but damn it can be tiring when a decent thread turns into playground insult contest.
I just re-read the thread and, honestly, no one is really calling anyone names or attacking anyones opinion directly.....xcept TCPO, who went after Zombos opinion, which started some back and forth, name calling, childish shit.....(buts thats it)
The rest of us???......just posting our football opinions about Johnny and how he played.....and a bunch of Johnny defenders disagreeing....but no name calling, etc.....
Name one receiver we have had since '99 that has helped us.
I can name a bunch.....in fact....8 out of the top 10 seasons for a Browns WR have happened since 1999....
Winslow, Josh Gordon, Kevin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Jordan Cameron, Gary Barnidge and Antonio Bryant are all in the top 10 Browns seasons for # of catches.....
because compared to what we have had since 99, he's a pot of gold.
....and in terms of yards....Josh Gordon & Braylon Edwards have the 2 best seasons ever for a Browns player....
along with Kellen Winslow, Antonio Bryant and Kevin Johnson.....
So....the truth is that the majority of our best receiving efforts have come since 1999 and they were all achieved with shit QB's....
And, if we exclude TE's from the equation, Webster Slaughter is the ONLY pre-1999 WR to make the top 10 .....thats right....9 out of the top 10 WR seasons have been after 1999.....
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Cam Newton is shit?
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Thanks mud for proving my point on benji.
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"allegedly drinking a Four Loko." These words in the story include a link...to a twitter post...which is a link...to this article. What?
"allegedly drinking a Four Loko." These words in the story include a link...to a twitter post...which is a link...to this article. What?
What is that? Like Lemonade or something?
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I guess... What I see is in this forum are men pulling out their "I'm-still-in-5th-Grade" card and tossing around 5th grade insults at objectivity or opinions that differ from certain people on this forum.
If anyone says something that is not popular, immediate name calling and insults ensues. This is a good forum, fun at times, but damn it can be tiring when a decent thread turns into playground insult contest.
I just re-read the thread and, honestly, no one is really calling anyone names or attacking anyones opinion directly.....xcept TCPO, who went after Zombos opinion, which started some back and forth, name calling, childish shit.....(buts thats it)
The rest of us???......just posting our football opinions about Johnny and how he played.....and a bunch of Johnny defenders disagreeing....but no name calling, etc.....
Name one receiver we have had since '99 that has helped us.
I can name a bunch.....in fact....8 out of the top 10 seasons for a Browns WR have happened since 1999....
Winslow, Josh Gordon, Kevin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Jordan Cameron, Gary Barnidge and Antonio Bryant are all in the top 10 Browns seasons for # of catches.....
because compared to what we have had since 99, he's a pot of gold.
....and in terms of yards....Josh Gordon & Braylon Edwards have the 2 best seasons ever for a Browns player....
along with Kellen Winslow, Antonio Bryant and Kevin Johnson.....
So....the truth is that the majority of our best receiving efforts have come since 1999 and they were all achieved with shit QB's....
And, if we exclude TE's from the equation, Webster Slaughter is the ONLY pre-1999 WR to make the top 10 .....thats right....9 out of the top 10 WR seasons have been after 1999.....
I just re-read the thread and, honestly, no one is really calling anyone names or attacking anyones opinion directly.....xcept TCPO, who went after Zombos opinion, which started some back and forth, name calling, childish shit.....(buts thats it)
The rest of us???......just posting our football opinions about Johnny and how he played.....and a bunch of Johnny defenders disagreeing....but no name calling, etc.....
I can name a bunch.....in fact....8 out of the top 10 seasons for a Browns WR have happened since 1999....
Winslow, Josh Gordon, Kevin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Jordan Cameron, Gary Barnidge and Antonio Bryant are all in the top 10 Browns seasons for # of catches.....
....and in terms of yards....Josh Gordon & Braylon Edwards have the 2 best seasons ever for a Browns player....
along with Kellen Winslow, Antonio Bryant and Kevin Johnson.....
So....the truth is that the majority of our best receiving efforts have come since 1999 and they were all achieved with shit QB's....
And, if we exclude TE's from the equation, Webster Slaughter is the ONLY pre-1999 WR to make the top 10 .....thats right....9 out of the top 10 WR seasons have been after 1999.....
And where are those WR's now, cept for Barnidge, who by the way, I don't think anyone was thinking he was coming into this year as the offensive weapon he has turned into. No one on this board saw that happening. We have continually, as an organization, drafted poorly. Also, the league is a lot different since '99. Rules have made it a pass friendly game, stats are stats, but generational context will always need to be taken into consideration. Plus the Brown, Pre-99, were a running team, and used their WR's as complements to the run.
The other point I will make to my 4th grade argument is that opposing or alternate opinions seem to turn into me verse you. Oh, you defend JFF, here is why you are stupid "rant rant rant".... "stat stat stat"..."you're stupid, you're stupid, you're stupid"..... "homo".
Were all Browns fans, but sometimes you think this is a Browns vs Steelers forum.
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Personally I love the title of the post. I believe it's from the department of redundancy department.
WSS
Ha, thought I was the only one who uses that joke. I hear they use a lot of spreadsheet-tracking spreadsheets in that department.
On JM, guy is showing progress. Can we stop flushing the team down the toilet at every minor issue?
Ha, thought I was the only one who uses that joke. I hear they use a lot of spreadsheet-tracking spreadsheets in that department.
On JM, guy is showing progress. Can we stop flushing the team down the toilet at every minor issue?
I assume we both stole it from the same place. Anyone here know what that might be?
WSS
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"allegedly drinking a Four Loko." These words in the story include a link...to a twitter post...which is a link...to this article. What?
What is that? Like Lemonade or something?
What is that? Like Lemonade or something?
More like this:
Back when they still had caffeine I drank some in college, I'll admit. Their only purpose is to get drunk using the spare change in your pocket. The taste is just something you have to suffer through.
We also used them as a mix-in for jungle juice - in additon to kool aid, sugar, pop, liquor, etc.
Looking back, there were a lot of bad ideas then.
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