Jonathan Paul Manziel
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How about some balance here. As already posted, JM owned his performance. He didn't pass it off, blame anyone else but himself. That deserves some credit, yes? I didn't get to watch any of the game yesterday, but streaming 92.3 the Fan, they aren't necessarily crucifying Manziel this morning. Every QB has bad games. Every team will have a bad game. Aaron Rodgers 15/28 151 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. Blown out by Arizona 38-8. Shit happens in this league. The Pats lost yesterday. The Panthers lost to a mediocre Atlanta team. We lost a meaningless game. JFF is growing. He's had setbacks, and I think he's showing signs of maturing and understanding what it means to be a QB in the league.
One thing JFF does display is a desire to win and compete. That much I do believe is true. He wants to win, and has some brass to try and do so and is a competitor and tries on every play to do what is needed to succeed.I'm not saying I know what to do, because I don't. I'm no expert (the only one on this board as it seems) either. But I'm leaning toward some continuity to some extent. Is JFF the answer, I don't have a fucking clue. But one thing is for sure, this team hasn't been able to put an answer in place for a long time. But the one consistent thing this team has done, is change, change, and change. And maybe, it's time we don't. Maybe it's time this team finds someone who can put some talent around JFF, and build and offense that will use the intuitive talents that this kid has. If one thing changes, and it sounds like something is going to happen is getting rid of Farmer. He has completely shit canned this team and personnel. Get someone here who can mold JFF and build around this kid and his ability to compete and play hard and make plays happen.
So you can go on and reply with your illogical JFF balls on my chin and homo responses. I'm no sympathizer, but I think the kid is has more upside than downside. But I do realize that JFF is his own worst enemy at this point and he still has a lot more to prove. Knee jerk reactions to a meaningless game, meh, smh.So you can go on and reply with your illogical JFF balls on my chin and homo responses.
But what does The Iron Sheik Think?
He has JFF balls on his chin...
Brilliant....
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I completely agree Z. This was by far and away the worst play from the qb position this year. I honestly don't know where all the support for this asshole comes from when the same people were in such a hurry to move on from colt McCoy and Brian Hoyer. In a game where the defense played well, there was a decent running game, and the line was giving the kid all they had. Seriously at times he had 5-6 seconds with a clean pocket on a 4 man rush and he had no vision and missed wide open checkdowns.
And it's not like we have to frantically sign a new rookie from the draft. If they willing to make a project outta a first round flop then atleast make a project outta a kid that fits the bill with height, arm strength, and proper footwork. I have absolutely no problem rolling into next year with depth chart of McCown, Austin, and Shaw. Build the team in other areas and then sell out and draft a qb when you have a team worthy of evaluating talents.
Its no secret I hated the pick and I have been proven correctly for the last 2 years. He basically threw away his rookie season. He was completely lost in the fact he didn't know the teams playbook or schemes. Basically cost us a pretty good OC in the process and a decent placeholdong qb. I want a qb that is all about football and he is not. Is he the first guy there and the last one to leave? Well unless your talking about the local watering hole in Texas the answer is NO. Hell there is reports of him being late to meetings about 4 times over the last 2 years. Hell the second time he was named starter this year after his discipline be totally blew off weight room session the morning after his birthday. And pettine totally gave him a pass because he is in great football shape. Really showed today when he was completely gased to start the 4th qrter are u fucking kidding me?? If the only reason this kid is on the team is because he was a First Rounder then I fucking quit. You can't figure that level of incompetent out anyways.
Bottom line Josh McCown has outworked, outplayed, and just simply outclassed the legend of Johnny Football this year kinda the same way Conner Shaw did last year. We signed Josh to a two year deal and he showed me enough to get excited about watching him lead this team in2016 and mentor whomever is here and eager to follow his lead. If u disagree with myself or Z I would like to know y? Are you still buying into the teabowesk hype, or do you truley believe he has improved the qb position? Amazingly there is less and less Texas AM fairweathers in this group. If John is not on this team next year it wont bother me very much.
Johnny Manziel - Browns 2016 starting QB.
So sorry.
Johnny Manziel - Browns 2016 starting QB.
We're trading McC?
Dude should be fixing to train and throw every day until he can't feel his arm until all of his bad habits with footwork and such can disappear.
Can't do it... tendonitis... remember?
Only word needed to describe yesterday's showing by JM... regression.
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Pettine said in his press conference that this was a step forward for Manziel, I'm on board now fire his ass.
Pettine said in his press conference that this was a step forward for Manziel, I'm on board now fire his ass.
He must be trying to fool the rest of the league.....cause the Browns REALLY want Johnny to look good going into the off season......
Id say not a step forward as much as a step toward the door.....
Never say never, but I do not like his odds at this point... And it was not just this one game.
His mechanics have been in decline in this last series of starts and today we saw really good throwing mechanics maybe once???
It's a full-blown regression...
Right....and it is.....
We kept hearing about his "progression" and improvement, but reality is that that lasted exactly 2 games and....NOW.....he's on a 4 game skid alllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to last year....
Yesterday was brutal.....4-14 on passes over 10 yds......a million missed reads......terrible passes(really terrible)..... and the D and running game showed up for him(again), yet we could not get it done on offense....
And had 2 glowing chances at the end to take that game.....and we(he) didnt......
And the running part would have been so much better if he hadnt left wide open receivers to do it.....
I dont know......just not seeing anything to give me hope or confidence.....at all.....
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Personally I love the title of the post. I believe it's from the department of redundancy department.
WSS
Personally I love the title of the post. I believe it's from the department of redundancy department.
WSS
Ha, thought I was the only one who uses that joke. I hear they use a lot of spreadsheet-tracking spreadsheets in that department.
On JM, guy is showing progress. Can we stop flushing the team down the toilet at every minor issue?
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Personally, I don't think Manziel has shown anything to think he can be a long-term successful starter in this league. But I don't know enough about football for that opinion to actually mean anything. However, I do know that his supporters will NEVER say he can't play. It will always be some excuse, some reason, some something other than he can't play. And no matter how poorly he plays, they will be right there with comparable bad game stats from PROVEN NFL caliber quarterbacks. Like that makes it okay to continually play poorly. When Johnny plays well against quality opponents, then let's talk.
And just remember, great QB's have always had receivers that made them both great. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc., have always had caliber receivers. Name one receiver we have had since '99 that has helped us. We've drafted a few, but they have all tanked. We seem to do a great job of drafting WR's that can't catch the fucking football, or can't get open, or just prefer weed. Yet, the Patriots seem to find guys that just work with Brady, time and time again. Small, quick white guys.... who fucking knew?!
great QB's have always had receivers that made them both great. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc., have always had caliber receivers.
Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Brees won the SB with Colston [7th round] and Devery Henderson [total of 20 TD's in his entire career] starting at WR. At TE that year, NO started... Jeremy Shockey, not Graham.
But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game.
By some magical coincidence, each and every one of Manziel's games are bad games.. when you analyze the tape.
He can't go through a progression. He can't throw to the open man. That's who he is. Will someone else "see something" and "convince themselves he can be coached up" ? I hope so! Just like the TRich trade, I hope manziel brings us a first. But does Manziel have actual skill? Nope. Done. Next.
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great QB's have always had receivers that made them both great. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning, etc., have always had caliber receivers.
Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Brees won the SB with Colston [7th round] and Devery Henderson [total of 20 TD's in his entire career] starting at WR. At TE that year, NO started... Jeremy Shockey, not Graham.
But sometimes it's just possible a QB, like any pitcher, has a bad game.
By some magical coincidence, each and every one of Manziel's games are bad games.. when you analyze the tape.
He can't go through a progression. He can't throw to the open man. That's who he is. Will someone else "see something" and "convince themselves he can be coached up" ? I hope so! Just like the TRich trade, I hope manziel brings us a first. But does Manziel have actual skill? Nope. Done. Next.
Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
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Brady won his super bowls with starting WR's who were 7th rounders, UDFA's, and a cornerback [Troy Brown]. Brady played 3 years with one good receiver [Moss] but lost in the SB, got his ACL blown, and lost in the first round. Brady made Welker and Edelman pro bowlers.. not the other way around.
Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
And JFF admitted post game he sucked. He knew it, and owned up to his poor performance. If he continues, with or without the Browns, and becomes a decent QB, he will have other bad games. It happens. He's shown progress and documented by many on this board. Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
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Seriously, what are you talking about?
"Owning Up To It" doesn't mean jack. Knowledge is not half the battle-- knowledge is the realization that you're beginning the battle.
He has shown zero progress on going through the progression and finding the open receiver -- as documented by many on this board.
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Right....the whole WR thing......(at least today).....doesnt hold water......
Not a single drop yesterday......and lots of open guys watching the ball miss by a mile......and watching Johnny run.....
Receivers caught the ball.....Defense held......O line blocked and the runners ran.....and we gave the O big stops at the end......and we gave them the ball TWICE, with a chance to win.....
And JFF admitted post game he sucked. He knew it, and owned up to his poor performance. If he continues, with or without the Browns, and becomes a decent QB, he will have other bad games. It happens. He's shown progress and documented by many on this board. Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
And JFF admitted post game he sucked. ...... Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
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If Cleveland hadn't already loaded up on not-terrible FA QB's, Ryan Mallett looked yesterday [for the first time ever] like the QB everyone always projected him to be.
Think quick: Who would you rather have right now, Manziel or Mallett? Yep, I'd take Mallett also.
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I'm thinking Paxton Lynch.
I'm thinking Paxton Lynch.
If you think Johnny has bad mechanics, wait until you watch Paxton's windup and eye movement.
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And JFF admitted post game he sucked. ...... Yet, another loss, so everyone's willing to cut him lose and reboot this damn ship all over again.
And is there really anyone in next year's draft that is deserving of a first rounder. I'm okay with Drafting another QB, but first or second round worthy?
Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
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Hm....well......if he can say he sucked, then why cant we?.....seriously....
Not sure where I said to cut him loose though....but thanks for putting words in my mouth....yummo
I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
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Benji is okay he is literally just fast. He is not a playmaker. Why browns fans hype an average slot player is beyond me.
Benji is okay he is literally just fast. He is not a playmaker. Why browns fans hype an average slot player is beyond me.
because compared to what we have had since 99, he's a pot of gold.
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I'm not just speaking to you specifically, but the context of the entire thread. Don't take it to seriously. This is just an internet forum, nothing more, nothing less.
Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
I guess... What I see is in this forum are men pulling out their "I'm-still-in-5th-Grade" card and tossing around 5th grade insults at objectivity or opinions that differ from certain people on this forum.
If anyone says something that is not popular, immediate name calling and insults ensues. This is a good forum, fun at times, but damn it can be tiring when a decent thread turns into playground insult contest.
Does anyone care that Pryor was inactive yesterday? Does anyone care that Bowie was the team captain? There are other things going on with this team that deserve some conversation. JFF had a poor throwing game yesterday, we all agree with that. He probably lost the game. But there are some other absurdities going on. As much as we need continuity, hell, when I hear that Pettine makes decisions to make Bowie a captain and leaves Pryor inactive.... I have to smh.
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Our resident genius analyst.
Ok, should we revisit this in two years, or do you want to tell me right now where my analysis is wrong?
Please don't start with the guards. Name all of the teams with Pro Bowl Left Tackles and Centers and tell me why their 5'11 quarterback can't throw an out to save his life.
Z
Zombo said:
Ok, should we revisit this in two years, or do you want to tell me right now where my analysis is wrong?
Please don't start with the guards. Name all of the teams with Pro Bowl Left Tackles and Centers and tell me why their 5'11 quarterback can't throw an out to save his life.
Z
fucking mack got his ass kicked this yr...i tivo alot of plays...he fucking stunk this yr, proving this probowl shit is a comedy club. as far as thomas..i don't think he was all that great either...not as bad as mack though..
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Well, let's investigate Ghoolie's contention that "Running QBs are all shit". Here is the list of the Top Ten rushing QBs of all time:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/gallery?id=5208880
Three of the ten are in the HOF: Steve Young, Elway, Tarkenton. Three of them could be considered borderline for the HOF: McNabb, McNair, Cunningham.
Then their is Vick, Harbaugh, Landry, and Ghoolie's favorite Queerdell.
After yesterday it may seem fair to call JFF a "running QB"......but honestly....I would hope that he would perform in the manner of several of these guys. Ten Superbowl appearances. Three wins. (maybe he is saying that the odds are not good for a running QB that appears in a SB to win it.....fair enough)
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Well....you quoted me, so I assumed you were talking to me....crazy, eh?...
And I get its a forum and really dont take any of it too seriously.....
In fact, it seems to me that the JFF guys are the ones who take things too seriously and get all bent outta shape anytime you point out their boys shortcomings(of which there are many).....So, if you want the truth, then thats how it really goes....
I guess... What I see is in this forum are men pulling out their "I'm-still-in-5th-Grade" card and tossing around 5th grade insults at objectivity or opinions that differ from certain people on this forum.
If anyone says something that is not popular, immediate name calling and insults ensues. This is a good forum, fun at times, but damn it can be tiring when a decent thread turns into playground insult contest.
Does anyone care that Pryor was inactive yesterday? Does anyone care that Bowie was the team captain? There are other things going on with this team that deserve some conversation. JFF had a poor throwing game yesterday, we all agree with that. He probably lost the game. But there are some other absurdities going on. As much as we need continuity, hell, when I hear that Pettine makes decisions to make Bowie a captain and leaves Pryor inactive.... I have to smh.
I guess... What I see is in this forum are men pulling out their "I'm-still-in-5th-Grade" card and tossing around 5th grade insults at objectivity or opinions that differ from certain people on this forum.
If anyone says something that is not popular, immediate name calling and insults ensues. This is a good forum, fun at times, but damn it can be tiring when a decent thread turns into playground insult contest.
I just re-read the thread and, honestly, no one is really calling anyone names or attacking anyones opinion directly.....xcept TCPO, who went after Zombos opinion, which started some back and forth, name calling, childish shit.....(buts thats it)
The rest of us???......just posting our football opinions about Johnny and how he played.....and a bunch of Johnny defenders disagreeing....but no name calling, etc.....
Name one receiver we have had since '99 that has helped us.
I can name a bunch.....in fact....8 out of the top 10 seasons for a Browns WR have happened since 1999....
Winslow, Josh Gordon, Kevin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Jordan Cameron, Gary Barnidge and Antonio Bryant are all in the top 10 Browns seasons for # of catches.....
because compared to what we have had since 99, he's a pot of gold.
....and in terms of yards....Josh Gordon & Braylon Edwards have the 2 best seasons ever for a Browns player....
along with Kellen Winslow, Antonio Bryant and Kevin Johnson.....
So....the truth is that the majority of our best receiving efforts have come since 1999 and they were all achieved with shit QB's....
And, if we exclude TE's from the equation, Webster Slaughter is the ONLY pre-1999 WR to make the top 10 .....thats right....9 out of the top 10 WR seasons have been after 1999.....
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Cam Newton is shit?
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Thanks mud for proving my point on benji.
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