Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Manziel the reason the defense and running game have been 1000x better as of late?

He has "shown flashes" running around and escaping pressure in the pocket. But I haven't seen any flashes when it comes to making the reads, being accurate, etc.
The guy will have the cleanest pocket in the world, then instead of stepping up and making the throw like other quarterbacks he opens his body up and throws it off the back foot 3 YDs behind the receiver.
And he continues to just chuck the ball up for grabs at midfield to avoid taking a sack. I could have accepted that mistake a couple times from a rookie - but he isn't a rookie and he has done it repeatedly.
So instead of just putting a dumb fucking picture why dont you actually answer the question. Why has the lightbulb magocally turned on for the run game with manziel under center? Did one change at guard really make a 180 degree difference?
San francisco went a damn super bowl running all over peoeple
So instead of just putting a dumb fucking picture why dont you actually answer the question. Why has the lightbulb magocally turned on for the run game with manziel under center? Did one change at guard really make a 180 degree difference?
San francisco went a damn super bowl running all over peoeple
I can speculate that Crow is running head up and seeing things better, that the interior OL has been playing better.
But I don't see how Manziel = Good run game, if you could explain how that works to me then maybe I'd be able to agree with you.
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Zombo said:
Umm ... I used all of Manziel's stats, and all of the other guys stats as well.
The one in front of 83.9 is a typo. Their passer ratings were not.
Z
--I guess I can update Brock now, anyway. Johnny is great against Cincinnati too.
Yeah convenient spot for a typo.

Yeah convenient spot for a typo.

So anyway, To clean this up ... Osweiler's career yards/game is now 94.7, his yards per START is 246.8
Johnny's yards per start this year is 212.3 and career 173.2.
His Yards per start this year is lower than the yards per game of everybody else mentioned.
As for the Browns in 2015:
In the 7 games where McCown took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 21.8 points per game and 290.1 passing yards per game.
In the 7 games where Manziel took the majority of the snaps, the Browns averaged 15.3 points per game and 195.5 passing yards per game.
If you guys are cool with giving up 6.5 points every week then, by all means, let's march on with Johnny next year.
I'm sure he'll start learning stuff.
Zombo
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All of you are hilarious.
all of US??
i guess you aren't one of US (if you were.....ever)? or are you above US?
like i said in another post i'll give them all until the end of next year. problem is with manziel is he might not beat out an old man for the starting job.
that must hurt cuz we all know you hate old men, especially when they take jobs away from lazy nudnicks like you.
all of US??
i guess you aren't one of US (if you were.....ever)? or are you above US?
like i said in another post i'll give them all until the end of next year. problem is with manziel is he might not beat out an old man for the starting job.
that must hurt cuz we all know you hate old men, especially when they take jobs away from lazy nudnicks like you.
No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
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I think we could argue till we are all blue in the face and still not know whats gonna happen.......and we wont know until next May sometime....
Cause it really isnt whether we think he's good or not....or if he'll develop.....its all about what the BROWNS think.....
Personally, I have ZERO idea what Mike Pettine, Kevin O'Connell or Flip even think of him or his talent.....nor do I know what Farmer or Haslem think......nor do I know WHO, among all these people, is gonna be the deciding force....nor do I know WHO, among these people, is even gonna be here.....BUT....someone is gonna decide to keep him or cut chase and it aint gonna be based on numbers(cause his numbers suck).....its gonna be based upon whether they think he's the guy...or not....
Throughout my life, I have had to fire many many people.....some were really easy and deserved it, so no problem.....but a lot of them were OK employees who I was on the fence about, so to speak.....making either decision difficult......so Id do GOOD list BAD list to help me see if they were good for the company or bad for the company....
By listing all the good and then listing all the bad, it forced me to give each side a fair look and to consider all the good things they brought to our company vs the thing or things that made me consider firing them....
And, gotta say, my good list - bad list for Johnny is kind of unbalanced toward the bad side......(just being honest).....so, as a team, they have to consider more than just his potential.....but what has he brought to the team that is positive VS negative,,,,,,(cause negatives count as much as positives).....and Im not counting too many positives right now.....
So.....I know no one here will do that(fairly, at least)....but if you're a Johnny fan, Id suggest trying it in private....make an honest list of all the "positives he's already brought to the Browns"(and not potential,but reality) ........and all the "negatives he's brought to the Browns".......then throw em on a scale and see which way it leans.......(and if you do it honestly, it will lean heavy to the negative)....
A lot of talk about trading him....and then the talk that we wouldnt get anything but a late round choice......and I gotta ask why a late pick if he doesnt look bad?.....if he's SO good and has SO much potential, shouldnt he be attractive trade bait?......shouldnt all the other GM's be able to see through the crap and understand just how awesome he really is?.....shoudnt they all line up to tap the next great one?......
And....the answer is NO.....there are NO other teams that are gonna watch his play and decide "we need some of that!".....
That is reality......and what a majority of fans(and pros) think......so, if you;re promoting Johnny, Id be curious what your good list has, that mine doesnt......(besides assumed potential).....and Id be curious what you think he's worth on the trade market and why.......cause if he's good enough to get a third year and the reins as starter, then he should be a desirable commodity on the open market.....
Im on record as saying Id tolerate another year(tho prefer not to).....but cant believe the Browns would.....
May cant come fast enough, because it'll be all Johnny all the time until then......(just like it's been since he got here)
I think we could argue till we are all blue in the face and still not know whats gonna happen.......and we wont know until next May sometime....
Cause it really isnt whether we think he's good or not....or if he'll develop.....its all about what the BROWNS think.....
Personally, I have ZERO idea what Mike Pettine, Kevin O'Connell or Flip even think of him or his talent.....nor do I know what Farmer or Haslem think......nor do I know WHO, among all these people, is gonna be the deciding force....nor do I know WHO, among these people, is even gonna be here.....BUT....someone is gonna decide to keep him or cut chase and it aint gonna be based on numbers(cause his numbers suck).....its gonna be based upon whether they think he's the guy...or not....
Throughout my life, I have had to fire many many people.....some were really easy and deserved it, so no problem.....but a lot of them were OK employees who I was on the fence about, so to speak.....making either decision difficult......so Id do GOOD list BAD list to help me see if they were good for the company or bad for the company....
By listing all the good and then listing all the bad, it forced me to give each side a fair look and to consider all the good things they brought to our company vs the thing or things that made me consider firing them....
And, gotta say, my good list - bad list for Johnny is kind of unbalanced toward the bad side......(just being honest).....so, as a team, they have to consider more than just his potential.....but what has he brought to the team that is positive VS negative,,,,,,(cause negatives count as much as positives).....and Im not counting too many positives right now.....
So.....I know no one here will do that(fairly, at least)....but if you're a Johnny fan, Id suggest trying it in private....make an honest list of all the "positives he's already brought to the Browns"(and not potential,but reality) ........and all the "negatives he's brought to the Browns".......then throw em on a scale and see which way it leans.......(and if you do it honestly, it will lean heavy to the negative)....
A lot of talk about trading him....and then the talk that we wouldnt get anything but a late round choice......and I gotta ask why a late pick if he doesnt look bad?.....if he's SO good and has SO much potential, shouldnt he be attractive trade bait?......shouldnt all the other GM's be able to see through the crap and understand just how awesome he really is?.....shoudnt they all line up to tap the next great one?......
And....the answer is NO.....there are NO other teams that are gonna watch his play and decide "we need some of that!".....
That is reality......and what a majority of fans(and pros) think......so, if you;re promoting Johnny, Id be curious what your good list has, that mine doesnt......(besides assumed potential).....and Id be curious what you think he's worth on the trade market and why.......cause if he's good enough to get a third year and the reins as starter, then he should be a desirable commodity on the open market.....
Im on record as saying Id tolerate another year(tho prefer not to).....but cant believe the Browns would.....
May cant come fast enough, because it'll be all Johnny all the time until then......(just like it's been since he got here)
I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM this year because Romo is a brittle commodity. He has come just short of crossing the NL legal line in expressing his regret. His lack of a real threat at backup has knocked them totally out of the playoffs. And he has never been afraid of players with outside issues.
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So instead of just putting a dumb fucking picture why dont you actually answer the question. Why has the lightbulb magocally turned on for the run game with manziel under center? Did one change at guard really make a 180 degree difference?
San francisco went a damn super bowl running all over peoeple
I can speculate that Crow is running head up and seeing things better, that the interior OL has been playing better.
But I don't see how Manziel = Good run game, if you could explain how that works to me then maybe I'd be able to agree with you.
I can speculate that Crow is running head up and seeing things better, that the interior OL has been playing better.
But I don't see how Manziel = Good run game, if you could explain how that works to me then maybe I'd be able to agree with you.
Because Manziel is a threat to run as well and it adjusts the defense accordingly. It's not a coincidence that the best rushing offense in the NFL (Panthers) has the best dual threat QB in the game. Johnny has a lot to learn about passing the ball but has shown where he can do it. There's no doubt he's a ways off, but so are a ton of young QB's in the league.
Also, the defense is not "rolling". They've had one great game against the worst offense in the NFL, a terrible game against a real contender, and a decent game against KC. Again I ask, if the defensive young dudes get all this time to "prove it" why doesn't Manziel? Why does Pettine get another year because the talent on the team is garbage but that logic doesn't apply to Johnny?
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You are literally too stupid to insult. Manziel is a severely better "football player" than McCarron. Guess we should bring in Jake Coker too. And last year that black kid that played for Bama because, like, he's totally a football player since he won some games with 4 straight #1 recruiting classes around him (that's an actual stat).Anybody watching AJ McCarron against Denver's #1 rated defense, this is why you draft football players, and not combine boy wonders - workout warriors - who look good in shorts and a tank top. Pick guys that have proven it on film, and done so against other top competition.
"AJ's too slow, AJ's arm is too weak, AJ didn't jump high enough in the 'how high can a guy in shorts jump and swipe the little plastic thingies' drill".........
I'm so sick and tired of the Browns missing on football players because they fall in love with the latest "draft stock riser" who has long arms and can run around little plastic cones really, really, really fast.
PICK GODDAMN FOOTBALL PLAYERS THIS TIME.
You are literally too stupid to insult. Manziel is a severely better "football player" than McCarron. Guess we should bring in Jake Coker too. And last year that black kid that played for Bama because, like, he's totally a football player since he won some games with 4 straight #1 recruiting classes around him (that's an actual stat).
That would hurt if I respected you, but rest assured, I don't.
No where in my post did I say McCarron was better than your idol....... but what the hell, I'll say it now, he is. Your little hero will be out of the league before your balls finally drop.
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all of US??
i guess you aren't one of US (if you were.....ever)? or are you above US?
like i said in another post i'll give them all until the end of next year. problem is with manziel is he might not beat out an old man for the starting job.
that must hurt cuz we all know you hate old men, especially when they take jobs away from lazy nudnicks like you.
No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
well at least now we know.
couple of great catch phrases in there. hope you don't mind if i make money off them.
nigga.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
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I have to be honest. I never liked the idea of Johnny as our QB. That being said, we have bigger problems right now. Mr. Haslam needs to decide what systems on offense and defense he wants the browns to have and then go find the best available staff to fit those systems. Every year we see the staff butting heads and mismatching player personnel to the team. If we could just build the team correctly for once; we could possibly get somewhere for a change. I know this really is not a big answer to your question but it has to be addressed first before we can decide what to do with Manziel. I personally don't like him but if he is the best fit for a new system than I can tolerate him for a couple years at least until we can get a better QB.
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I think we could argue till we are all blue in the face and still not know whats gonna happen.......and we wont know until next May sometime....
Cause it really isnt whether we think he's good or not....or if he'll develop.....its all about what the BROWNS think.....
Personally, I have ZERO idea what Mike Pettine, Kevin O'Connell or Flip even think of him or his talent.....nor do I know what Farmer or Haslem think......nor do I know WHO, among all these people, is gonna be the deciding force....nor do I know WHO, among these people, is even gonna be here.....BUT....someone is gonna decide to keep him or cut chase and it aint gonna be based on numbers(cause his numbers suck).....its gonna be based upon whether they think he's the guy...or not....
Throughout my life, I have had to fire many many people.....some were really easy and deserved it, so no problem.....but a lot of them were OK employees who I was on the fence about, so to speak.....making either decision difficult......so Id do GOOD list BAD list to help me see if they were good for the company or bad for the company....
By listing all the good and then listing all the bad, it forced me to give each side a fair look and to consider all the good things they brought to our company vs the thing or things that made me consider firing them....
And, gotta say, my good list - bad list for Johnny is kind of unbalanced toward the bad side......(just being honest).....so, as a team, they have to consider more than just his potential.....but what has he brought to the team that is positive VS negative,,,,,,(cause negatives count as much as positives).....and Im not counting too many positives right now.....
So.....I know no one here will do that(fairly, at least)....but if you're a Johnny fan, Id suggest trying it in private....make an honest list of all the "positives he's already brought to the Browns"(and not potential,but reality) ........and all the "negatives he's brought to the Browns".......then throw em on a scale and see which way it leans.......(and if you do it honestly, it will lean heavy to the negative)....
A lot of talk about trading him....and then the talk that we wouldnt get anything but a late round choice......and I gotta ask why a late pick if he doesnt look bad?.....if he's SO good and has SO much potential, shouldnt he be attractive trade bait?......shouldnt all the other GM's be able to see through the crap and understand just how awesome he really is?.....shoudnt they all line up to tap the next great one?......
And....the answer is NO.....there are NO other teams that are gonna watch his play and decide "we need some of that!".....
That is reality......and what a majority of fans(and pros) think......so, if you;re promoting Johnny, Id be curious what your good list has, that mine doesnt......(besides assumed potential).....and Id be curious what you think he's worth on the trade market and why.......cause if he's good enough to get a third year and the reins as starter, then he should be a desirable commodity on the open market.....
Im on record as saying Id tolerate another year(tho prefer not to).....but cant believe the Browns would.....
May cant come fast enough, because it'll be all Johnny all the time until then......(just like it's been since he got here)
I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM this year because Romo is a brittle commodity. He has come just short of crossing the NL legal line in expressing his regret. His lack of a real threat at backup has knocked them totally out of the playoffs. And he has never been afraid of players with outside issues.
I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
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No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
well at least now we know.
couple of great catch phrases in there. hope you don't mind if i make money off them.
nigga.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
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Oh, stop being so diplomatic mik. Makes you look bad. How do I pink that anyway?

diplomatic immunity. yeah, that's it! 🥷
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I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
6th would be his opening (steal) offer. I think if he senses weakness on the Browns in terms of wanting to be rid of JM, then 5th would be the real offer with 4th only if he thinks Cleveland really wants to keep him. Would the Browns bite? History of QB non-retention shows they just might eat that one.
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Because JM is part of that "talent"?
Look... all the back and forth at both extremes is tiresome.
I haven't noticed teams spying JM while the quick hitters or wide ZBS runs that have produced chunks the past couple weeks.
I have noticed a couple zone reads go for chunks when, contrary to the treat JM adds, a backside DE or OLB did not honor the QB run. The zone read's elimination of backside pursuit is not nothing, but neither is it pivotal... especially when the bootleg threat is well established.
His run threat requiring a spy should help his passing as much or more than it does our team running attack. The run success should translate into open PAP completions for even more chunks. Have they?
The strides JM has made are in mastering the basics of QB play in the NFL: getting out play calls, pre-snap reads and adjustments. That the contrast is stark is only a testament to how abysmal his early efforts were.
The next step is very, very high...
Bottom line: JM is not garbage, but neither is he, or his promise, great.
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No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
well at least now we know.
couple of great catch phrases in there. hope you don't mind if i make money off them.
nigga.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
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Personally, I could care less what a 4loco is or what it tastes like or that jm drank it. But, I'll make everyone a deal. I'll say get rid of him if both Pettine and Farmer go with him.
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I'd have disowned you first, no worries.
hey mouth, still got a six saying manziel won't start next year.
you a man or a mouse?
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I just joined this site but I still see the same problems. Our offensive and defensive systems don't work well because our staff does not fit these systems and our players don't fit the systems either. Now, I know this is not true for all of our staff or players but just having some in both ruins any chance we have of coming together. Just because someone is good or even great in another system does not mean they will be in any system. We need to decide on our offensive and defensive systems and build around them; so, that everyone fits what we are.
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