Jonathan Paul Manziel
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all of US??
i guess you aren't one of US (if you were.....ever)? or are you above US?
like i said in another post i'll give them all until the end of next year. problem is with manziel is he might not beat out an old man for the starting job.
that must hurt cuz we all know you hate old men, especially when they take jobs away from lazy nudnicks like you.
No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
well at least now we know.
couple of great catch phrases in there. hope you don't mind if i make money off them.
nigga.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
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I have to be honest. I never liked the idea of Johnny as our QB. That being said, we have bigger problems right now. Mr. Haslam needs to decide what systems on offense and defense he wants the browns to have and then go find the best available staff to fit those systems. Every year we see the staff butting heads and mismatching player personnel to the team. If we could just build the team correctly for once; we could possibly get somewhere for a change. I know this really is not a big answer to your question but it has to be addressed first before we can decide what to do with Manziel. I personally don't like him but if he is the best fit for a new system than I can tolerate him for a couple years at least until we can get a better QB.
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I think we could argue till we are all blue in the face and still not know whats gonna happen.......and we wont know until next May sometime....
Cause it really isnt whether we think he's good or not....or if he'll develop.....its all about what the BROWNS think.....
Personally, I have ZERO idea what Mike Pettine, Kevin O'Connell or Flip even think of him or his talent.....nor do I know what Farmer or Haslem think......nor do I know WHO, among all these people, is gonna be the deciding force....nor do I know WHO, among these people, is even gonna be here.....BUT....someone is gonna decide to keep him or cut chase and it aint gonna be based on numbers(cause his numbers suck).....its gonna be based upon whether they think he's the guy...or not....
Throughout my life, I have had to fire many many people.....some were really easy and deserved it, so no problem.....but a lot of them were OK employees who I was on the fence about, so to speak.....making either decision difficult......so Id do GOOD list BAD list to help me see if they were good for the company or bad for the company....
By listing all the good and then listing all the bad, it forced me to give each side a fair look and to consider all the good things they brought to our company vs the thing or things that made me consider firing them....
And, gotta say, my good list - bad list for Johnny is kind of unbalanced toward the bad side......(just being honest).....so, as a team, they have to consider more than just his potential.....but what has he brought to the team that is positive VS negative,,,,,,(cause negatives count as much as positives).....and Im not counting too many positives right now.....
So.....I know no one here will do that(fairly, at least)....but if you're a Johnny fan, Id suggest trying it in private....make an honest list of all the "positives he's already brought to the Browns"(and not potential,but reality) ........and all the "negatives he's brought to the Browns".......then throw em on a scale and see which way it leans.......(and if you do it honestly, it will lean heavy to the negative)....
A lot of talk about trading him....and then the talk that we wouldnt get anything but a late round choice......and I gotta ask why a late pick if he doesnt look bad?.....if he's SO good and has SO much potential, shouldnt he be attractive trade bait?......shouldnt all the other GM's be able to see through the crap and understand just how awesome he really is?.....shoudnt they all line up to tap the next great one?......
And....the answer is NO.....there are NO other teams that are gonna watch his play and decide "we need some of that!".....
That is reality......and what a majority of fans(and pros) think......so, if you;re promoting Johnny, Id be curious what your good list has, that mine doesnt......(besides assumed potential).....and Id be curious what you think he's worth on the trade market and why.......cause if he's good enough to get a third year and the reins as starter, then he should be a desirable commodity on the open market.....
Im on record as saying Id tolerate another year(tho prefer not to).....but cant believe the Browns would.....
May cant come fast enough, because it'll be all Johnny all the time until then......(just like it's been since he got here)
I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM this year because Romo is a brittle commodity. He has come just short of crossing the NL legal line in expressing his regret. His lack of a real threat at backup has knocked them totally out of the playoffs. And he has never been afraid of players with outside issues.
I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
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No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
well at least now we know.
couple of great catch phrases in there. hope you don't mind if i make money off them.
nigga.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
Oh, stop being so diplomatic mik. Makes you look bad. How do I pink that anyway?
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Oh, stop being so diplomatic mik. Makes you look bad. How do I pink that anyway?
diplomatic immunity. yeah, that's it! 🥷
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I'd be interested in seeing your good and bad lists mud.
PS-and just for the record Jerry Jones has very much regretted not having JM
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
Ha!....you KNOW you arent gonna like that list....glutton for punishment are ya?......
.....no time this minute(gotta go) but will post it up later for you.....And yes.....I keep hearing that Jerry likes him......but I also know there is no way he will pay a decent price...Ive said it before and Ill say it again....if he so regrets not drafting him, then let him put his money where his mouth is and anti up a first or second round pick for him.....otherwise, he really doesnt regret passing on him or like him THAT much....does he?
My gut says he offers something more like a 6th(if that).....(which will be closer to what he thinks he's worth).....
6th would be his opening (steal) offer. I think if he senses weakness on the Browns in terms of wanting to be rid of JM, then 5th would be the real offer with 4th only if he thinks Cleveland really wants to keep him. Would the Browns bite? History of QB non-retention shows they just might eat that one.
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Because JM is part of that "talent"?
Look... all the back and forth at both extremes is tiresome.
I haven't noticed teams spying JM while the quick hitters or wide ZBS runs that have produced chunks the past couple weeks.
I have noticed a couple zone reads go for chunks when, contrary to the treat JM adds, a backside DE or OLB did not honor the QB run. The zone read's elimination of backside pursuit is not nothing, but neither is it pivotal... especially when the bootleg threat is well established.
His run threat requiring a spy should help his passing as much or more than it does our team running attack. The run success should translate into open PAP completions for even more chunks. Have they?
The strides JM has made are in mastering the basics of QB play in the NFL: getting out play calls, pre-snap reads and adjustments. That the contrast is stark is only a testament to how abysmal his early efforts were.
The next step is very, very high...
Bottom line: JM is not garbage, but neither is he, or his promise, great.
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No, I'm not one of you.
I'm not a fucking child who's pussy got hurt because of one draft pick. I'm not a fucking moron who wants us to draft a project QB just because he's taller than the project QB we have now. I'm not a fucking old blowhard fuck that has a hair up his ass about guys not playing "AFC North" or "Cleveland football". (Neither of those are fucking things anymore, for the record. AFC North teams are 13,14,19, and 24 in rushing and 10,11,23, and 26th in total defense. This fabled "AFC North" style of offense is a misnomer and is just old fogeys hanging on to memories of the 60's.)
So no, I'm not one of you. I have zero problem with old men...when they are useful, intelligent, or know what they are talking about. However, that is rarely the case here. Nostalgia is the number one killer of innovation and it's also the reasoning behind 95% of people's posts here. It's not "this is the current trend, this is how the NFL is evolving, this is how teams are seeing success now, let's replicate that"... It's "hey remember Brian Sipe? We should get a Brian Sipe. And oh man, what about Frank Minnifield. Wish we had him, let's go draft his son. He has to be good, right?"
The other 5% is just the shit that old, fat-titted Ghoolie spews out to try and stay relevant. Dude is like Skip Bayless...if Skip Bayless ate Stephen A. Smith and then forgot anything he knew about sports.
well at least now we know.
couple of great catch phrases in there. hope you don't mind if i make money off them.
nigga.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
well at least now we know.
couple of great catch phrases in there. hope you don't mind if i make money off them.
nigga.
btw, if i was your family, i'd disown you, you cunt.
I'd have disowned you first, no worries.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Personally, I could care less what a 4loco is or what it tastes like or that jm drank it. But, I'll make everyone a deal. I'll say get rid of him if both Pettine and Farmer go with him.
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I'd have disowned you first, no worries.
hey mouth, still got a six saying manziel won't start next year.
you a man or a mouse?
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I just joined this site but I still see the same problems. Our offensive and defensive systems don't work well because our staff does not fit these systems and our players don't fit the systems either. Now, I know this is not true for all of our staff or players but just having some in both ruins any chance we have of coming together. Just because someone is good or even great in another system does not mean they will be in any system. We need to decide on our offensive and defensive systems and build around them; so, that everyone fits what we are.
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I'd have disowned you first, no worries.
hey mouth, still got a six saying manziel won't start next year.
you a man or a mouse?
hey mouth, still got a six saying manziel won't start next year.
you a man or a mouse?
I'll take it.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
He's a gerbil
The smartest thing I've ever seen you post...and it's still not very smart.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I will just be happy to have a QB that fits whatever system we are trying to run and a staff that fits the systems as well. QB has always been a problem here because we always pick QBs that do not fit our system just because they were good in college. Can we just build the team right once and see what happens?!
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My comparison would be Brady Quinn. Manziel reminds me of BQ in about every way. Anyone else agree?
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This is my first post here and let me preface this by disclaiming that I'm a Redskin fan and lurker on this board since 2012 when both of our teams were linked to trying to trade for RGIII so I have no dog in this fight.
I've watched more recently in my peripheral because I was a big Kyle Shanahan fan and when you guys signed him I wanted to see how he would do here. I've also felt a kinship in the sense that both of our franchises have been management laughing stocks of the NFL and complete debacles overall yet our fanbases stay strong and both play in power divisions. All that said this is what I think from an outsider POV:
There is a difference between "staying the path" and "seeing what you have" with Johnny and realizing when a dud is a dud. I think the mobile 1-read QB's like Kaep, RGIII, and Johnny, while talented, are not worth investing your entire future around. RGIII is a great dude, hard worker, team player etc etc but homie cannot get to a 3rd read in a pressure situation to save his life and Johnny is the same exact way.
McCown is a decent QB when the ish is setup around him right and honestly if he was 5 years younger we wouldn't be having this conversation but just look at Fitz in NYJ. Bounced around from team to team but now hes on a precipice of a wildcard berth. You think they care that he is as old as joe dirt? You think that they think Geno is their future still after seeing what a professional QB can do?
Having injuries to Hartline and the WRs is one thing. Losing a potential stud like Gordon to stupidity is another travesty. But trust your eyes - 300 yard games don't grow on trees and McCown has had them. Barnidge and Jordan Reed are taking the TE championship belt from Gronk within 2 years. I think if healthy all year the Browns could of had a wildcard shot ala the Jets. Outside of Chip Kelly none of these 1-read QB's have a shot of progression unless they really dedicate themselves.
Yeah Johnny, throw your helmet in frustration and proclaim that you didn't come through in crunch-time - in reality dog "crunch-time" was your preparation on mon-tues-weds-thurs, it was you staying late watching film instead of drinking fourlokos.
Johnny has a winner's heart with a Vince Young mind.
Just an outsider and fellow underdog's 2 cents
Gotta love these descents into darkness...
This is my first post here and let me preface this by disclaiming that I'm a Redskin fan and lurker on this board since 2012 when both of our teams were linked to trying to trade for RGIII so I have no dog in this fight.
Nice series of posts...
The common thread between the two HCs and their respective QB decisions is that both got to see their choices day after day, practice after practice and used that to make their choice. I think both have had their choices validated.
The difference was that only one had a choice between two young QBs.
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I'll take it.
datta boy.
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i think Manziel has enough potential to not draft another QB in the first round. Even if the Browns part ways with Johnny, I think it would be OK to go with McCown, Davis and Shaw next season. If the Browns stick with the same coaching staff/playbook, it would be better to stick with QBs that know the system rather than throwing another rookie QB out there, especially since there are no QBs coming out this year that scream #2 pick.
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