Star Wars: TFA, Spoiler Alerts
-
Episode 7 was episode 4 designed for the newest generation of fans high action less story more battle.The term "power creep" comes to mind.
Meaning that where episode 1~3 showed more conventional land battles and weaponry aswell as tactics and espionage episode 4~6 revolved more around space battles and superweapon tactics. Episide 7 was ANH with bigger weaponry and the cheap death of han to make it emotional. Though it symbolizes kylo being greater than darth vader by killing his own father to complete his transition to the darkside. Also i thought his character was kinda bitchy and very singular anger being his only real driving force.
Even his saber looked jagged and frantic. Like he was filled with unrefined rage. But he was no match for the series previous villans, Maul introduced us to the highly acrobatic warrior assassin. Grevious was a Great villain. Dooka was a very cold calculated sith. Palpatine/Darth sidious was behind all of them and vader. Of course Vader needs no praise as being the epitome of what it means to be sith apprentice.
Kylo just didn't resonate with me as a true sith in this movie and to be frank he made a poor iconic villain which is usually something star wars movies are great at. Hopefully his completion of his training makes him a bit less of an angsty teen and a better villain moving foward.
Overall a good movie but i like the other 6 better. Feels alot like godfather 3 if you know what i mean
-
I thought it was better than 4-6 but worse than1-3. My biggest gripe with this TFA is their is too much homage and not enough new material. For example:
1) The story's reliance on a problematic father-son relationship that we already saw with 1-3. I would've been impressed if Kylo actually turned to the light side, if even temporarily, because as soon as Han stepped onto that bridge, I fully expected Kylo to do what he did. I wish he had done something less predictable.
2) A young untrained character from a desert planet who loves robots and is strong with the force. They may as well have named her Luka.
3) Yet another giant evil weapon that destroys planets as a central plot device. They could've at least made it less deathstarish.
I could think of more but I won't nitpick. As awful as this may sound, I'm kind of glad Han Solo was killed off because maybe it signals that the baton is being passed and the sequels will in fact explore some new themes in the Star Wars universe.
"I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta -
The film is very thin and skimpish, lacking
Much depth to its plot and other threads it starts. It's an appetizer, a base formula laying the path for the next 2. What's dissapointing is ANH did this while still being its own contained and connected story/movie. This seems like a TV episode because nothing is connected, except for Kylo and Han, the rest of the movie is basically plotless.
Is it well made? Yes. Well written? Sort of. The map fuels the plot, but r2 has the missing piece, and wakes up at the end why?
Rsistance and First Order, nothing delved into with them.
Snoake, nothing really delved into. Was lame they reveal the Kylo- Han twist so early, why not wait Til Hans at the bridge at the end? Lazy inexperienced writing.
Even though Lucas wasn't that good of an actual director of actors and writing dialogue, the prequels had VISION. They had a controlled direction of where they were going, and contained detail that George's visual creativity could only give, TFA is too fast paced and action oriented to respect the original pacing and mythological mystery the other ones had. This is for the fans, not for the continuation of the Star Wars worlds and universe itself. It plays it safe, and does exactly what we've already seen before. Is this bad? Not necessarily, but it is dissapointing from a principle standpoint.
I wholeheartedly disagree, respectfully.
I'm not sure how you can call the writing lazy and inexperienced. The script was written by Lawrence Kasdan, the guy who wrote both ESB and ROTJ.
As for the non-explanation...that is the difference between the OT and the prequels. ANH introduced us into this entire universe, yet didn't explain much of it. Animals, planets, systems, motivations, the Empire, random references to other things (Kessel Run, for example) - very little of this was explained in ANH. Some was explained over the following two movies, but a lot was left intentionally blank because it's not important.
Then, in the prequels, it's TOO in depth. Negotiations, the Senate, the Jedi, the Force - everything is explained. That's the difference between Kasdan and Lucas - and that's partially why the prequels are mostly considered critical flops. Lucas tried to tell the viewer everything so they could understand everyone's intentions...while Kasdan intentionally left motivations vague.
Lucas has a VISION, sure. It's just not really good. And that's why they rejected his script. He intended to complete the story he had originally started, regardless of how people felt about it. That's all well and good, as the story is technically his...but the movies would have likely been monumental failures.
Moz Kanata said something along the lines of "I've been alive for so long I've seen the same story play itself out over again. The Sith, the Senate, the Empire, now the First Order. Everyone's just trying to do what their predecessors failed in doing." That's the entire theme of TFA, in my opinion. One regime failed, another one stepped up and filled the void and said "here's how they failed...well WERE gonna do it THIS WAY". Time is cyclical, fate is rigid, it's just the people that change.
Kasdan is showing that life is a story that repeats itself, you either learn from your father's mistakes or you are doomed to repeat them. And that's why there are such strong parallels between the story of ANH and TFA. And that's why Luke disappeared. He was trying to break the streak.
However, just because they are similar...that doesn't make them the same. The big reveal of the OT was that Vader was Luke's father (which anyone who even had a minor understanding of the German language knew from the beginning.) The "unexplained lineage" was HUGE in the OT and i think it will be a big factor here...just not for Ren. That was just a minor reveal to set up the personal conflict for Rey moving forward.
The problem is that we're trying too hard to compare it to ANH, while possibly misremembering how ANH made us feel before we finished the trilogy. It left that feeling of "well, what the fuck is the Empire? Who started the Rebels? Why? How in the hell did Obi-Wan know he was going to still be able to talk to Luke? Why was Luke on Tatooine to begin with? Is Han just gonna bail on them? Is Vader in charge? Who is this Emperor guy?"
Now we're left with the same questions, just change the names.
I wholeheartedly disagree, respectfully.
I'm not sure how you can call the writing lazy and inexperienced. The script was written by Lawrence Kasdan, the guy who wrote both ESB and ROTJ.
As for the non-explanation...that is the difference between the OT and the prequels. ANH introduced us into this entire universe, yet didn't explain much of it. Animals, planets, systems, motivations, the Empire, random references to other things (Kessel Run, for example) - very little of this was explained in ANH. Some was explained over the following two movies, but a lot was left intentionally blank because it's not important.
Then, in the prequels, it's TOO in depth. Negotiations, the Senate, the Jedi, the Force - everything is explained. That's the difference between Kasdan and Lucas - and that's partially why the prequels are mostly considered critical flops. Lucas tried to tell the viewer everything so they could understand everyone's intentions...while Kasdan intentionally left motivations vague.
Lucas has a VISION, sure. It's just not really good. And that's why they rejected his script. He intended to complete the story he had originally started, regardless of how people felt about it. That's all well and good, as the story is technically his...but the movies would have likely been monumental failures.
Moz Kanata said something along the lines of "I've been alive for so long I've seen the same story play itself out over again. The Sith, the Senate, the Empire, now the First Order. Everyone's just trying to do what their predecessors failed in doing." That's the entire theme of TFA, in my opinion. One regime failed, another one stepped up and filled the void and said "here's how they failed...well WERE gonna do it THIS WAY". Time is cyclical, fate is rigid, it's just the people that change.
(Sounds like the Cleveland Browns front offices)
Kasdan is showing that life is a story that repeats itself, you either learn from your father's mistakes or you are doomed to repeat them. And that's why there are such strong parallels between the story of ANH and TFA. And that's why Luke disappeared. He was trying to break the streak.
However, just because they are similar...that doesn't make them the same. The big reveal of the OT was that Vader was Luke's father (which anyone who even had a minor understanding of the German language knew from the beginning.) The "unexplained lineage" was HUGE in the OT and i think it will be a big factor here...just not for Ren. That was just a minor reveal to set up the personal conflict for Rey moving forward.
The problem is that we're trying too hard to compare it to ANH, while possibly misremembering how ANH made us feel before we finished the trilogy. It left that feeling of "well, what the fuck is the Empire? Who started the Rebels? Why? How in the hell did Obi-Wan know he was going to still be able to talk to Luke? Why was Luke on Tatooine to begin with? Is Han just gonna bail on them? Is Vader in charge? Who is this Emperor guy?"
Now we're left with the same questions, just change the names.
True....I just came from seeing it.....and I was wondering:
A. I thought they got rid of the Sith and the Empire......yet now, the Sith is apparently back....and this new First Order is just taking up where the Old Empire left off. How did that happen?
B. What happened to the New Republic? They have this "new resistance". Meet the new boss, same as the old boss?
C. What governed the galaxy after the Emperor was eliminated....and why did it fail?
D. Who is Snoke....and where did he come from? They didn't give him a "Darth" label....nor did they give one to Kylo Ren. So, are they not Sith? Something else that crawled out of the Darkside.
E. They say that Luke wanted to create a new Jedi Training school, and that "Ben Solo" (which I assume his real name was) turned against his Uncle Luke and went to the Darkside? How did that happen?
F. Why did Kylo Ren decide he needed to wear a mask....when he was perfectly healthy. Just to honor his Grandfather? But why honor the dark side? Why honor Darth Vader? And not Anakin Skywalker....as, after all wasn't he redeemed at the end of ROTJ?
G. And, of course, who is the girl? We assume she is not Kylo Ren's sister.....as I think Leia would have known if she had given birth to a girl. The other assumption is that she is actually Luke's daughter.....by some assignation that we are as yet unaware. And, if so.....why was she abandoned on Jakku.
H,. Or......was she another creation of the midichlorians? After all....it happened once....why not again? That could explain why she had such immediate vast control of the force without any Jedi training. Perhaps somehow Luke found her and wanted to protect her from being discovered and that is why she was left on Jakku. Perhaps her mother was killed. I would not think that both a true mother and father would abandon her like that.
So, I guess, from that standpoint the new movie did its job......leaving us with a lot of unanswered questions....and wanting us to go back to see the movie again to see if we can see some clues to these unanswered questions.
-
I know EU is gone but they still seem to be using pieces of it. Pulling from novels and video games oddly. Rey Skywalker is the daughter of mara jade and Luke Skywalker. So they atleast kept that part it would seem. "Starkiller" was the name of vader's secret apprentice.
As far as rey having so much command of the force. She is a direct descendant of the force conceived Anakin Skywalker but luke and liea were not pureblooded force users. Neither is kylo ren for that matter or any jedi as they generally were not permitted wives. And the whole only two sith thing lol so no offspring there. So mara jade was immensely powerful and luke was also immensely powerful though young and untrained in 4,5 and 6.
Point being she is likely the most powerful force user due to anakin conceived by the force through a normal human mother. Luke and liea also conceived one part force user one part normal human. Rey may be the purest form of the chosen one both parents powerful force user's and direct descendant of the original chosen one. If EU was here she would also be born a predisposition for both the light and the darkside of the force. (Luke and mara both going to the dark side and to the light before rey was born)
I know EU is gone but they still seem to be using pieces of it. Pulling from novels and video games oddly. Rey Skywalker is the daughter of mara jade and Luke Skywalker. So they atleast kept that part it would seem. "Starkiller" was the name of vader's secret apprentice.
As far as rey having so much command of the force. She is a direct descendant of the force conceived Anakin Skywalker but luke and liea were not pureblooded force users. Neither is kylo ren for that matter or any jedi as they generally were not permitted wives. And the whole only two sith thing lol so no offspring there. So mara jade was immensely powerful and luke was also immensely powerful though young and untrained in 4,5 and 6.
Point being she is likely the most powerful force user due to anakin conceived by the force through a normal human mother. Luke and liea also conceived one part force user one part normal human. Rey may be the purest form of the chosen one both parents powerful force user's and direct descendant of the original chosen one. If EU was here she would also be born a predisposition for both the light and the darkside of the force. (Luke and mara both going to the dark side and to the light before rey was born)
You are making an assumption about who the mother of Rey is based on fan fiction. I don't know if Lucas/Abrams are going to pull out a concept from a fan fiction forum.....no matter how logical your assumption is....and how many clues there are that its true. (Luke's lightsaber responding to her...R2D2 respoding to her presence) And I agree, it is logical.
-
Episode 7 was episode 4 designed for the newest generation of fans high action less story more battle.The term "power creep" comes to mind.
Meaning that where episode 1~3 showed more conventional land battles and weaponry aswell as tactics and espionage episode 4~6 revolved more around space battles and superweapon tactics. Episide 7 was ANH with bigger weaponry and the cheap death of han to make it emotional. Though it symbolizes kylo being greater than darth vader by killing his own father to complete his transition to the darkside. Also i thought his character was kinda bitchy and very singular anger being his only real driving force.
Even his saber looked jagged and frantic. Like he was filled with unrefined rage. But he was no match for the series previous villans, Maul introduced us to the highly acrobatic warrior assassin. Grevious was a Great villain. Dooka was a very cold calculated sith. Palpatine/Darth sidious was behind all of them and vader. Of course Vader needs no praise as being the epitome of what it means to be sith apprentice.
Kylo just didn't resonate with me as a true sith in this movie and to be frank he made a poor iconic villain which is usually something star wars movies are great at. Hopefully his completion of his training makes him a bit less of an angsty teen and a better villain moving foward.
Overall a good movie but i like the other 6 better. Feels alot like godfather 3 if you know what i mean
Episode 7 was episode 4 designed for the newest generation of fans high action less story more battle.The term "power creep" comes to mind.
Meaning that where episode 1~3 showed more conventional land battles and weaponry aswell as tactics and espionage episode 4~6 revolved more around space battles and superweapon tactics. Episide 7 was ANH with bigger weaponry and the cheap death of han to make it emotional. Though it symbolizes kylo being greater than darth vader by killing his own father to complete his transition to the darkside. Also i thought his character was kinda bitchy and very singular anger being his only real driving force.
Even his saber looked jagged and frantic. Like he was filled with unrefined rage. But he was no match for the series previous villans, Maul introduced us to the highly acrobatic warrior assassin. Grevious was a Great villain. Dooka was a very cold calculated sith. Palpatine/Darth sidious was behind all of them and vader. Of course Vader needs no praise as being the epitome of what it means to be sith apprentice.
Kylo just didn't resonate with me as a true sith in this movie and to be frank he made a poor iconic villain which is usually something star wars movies are great at. Hopefully his completion of his training makes him a bit less of an angsty teen and a better villain moving foward.
Overall a good movie but i like the other 6 better. Feels alot like godfather 3 if you know what i mean
Clearly the future story arc is going to be the attempt to redeem him the way his grandfather was redeemed.Well, as I noted above the question about Kylo Ren's villainy is that clearly it seems he can be conflicted. I think it was well done when Han was talking to him....trying to get him to return.....you could see that it nearly happened until the sun went dark....and the dark side in him came out and prevailed.
-
I thought it was better than 4-6 but worse than1-3. My biggest gripe with this TFA is their is too much homage and not enough new material. For example:
1) The story's reliance on a problematic father-son relationship that we already saw with 1-3. I would've been impressed if Kylo actually turned to the light side, if even temporarily, because as soon as Han stepped onto that bridge, I fully expected Kylo to do what he did. I wish he had done something less predictable.
2) A young untrained character from a desert planet who loves robots and is strong with the force. They may as well have named her Luka.
3) Yet another giant evil weapon that destroys planets as a central plot device. They could've at least made it less deathstarish.
I could think of more but I won't nitpick. As awful as this may sound, I'm kind of glad Han Solo was killed off because maybe it signals that the baton is being passed and the sequels will in fact explore some new themes in the Star Wars universe.
I thought it was better than 4-6 but worse than1-3. My biggest gripe with this TFA is their is too much homage and not enough new material. For example:
1) The story's reliance on a problematic father-son relationship that we already saw with 1-3. I would've been impressed if Kylo actually turned to the light side, if even temporarily, because as soon as Han stepped onto that bridge, I fully expected Kylo to do what he did. I wish he had done something less predictable.
2) A young untrained character from a desert planet who loves robots and is strong with the force. They may as well have named her Luka.
3) Yet another giant evil weapon that destroys planets as a central plot device. They could've at least made it less deathstarish.
I could think of more but I won't nitpick. As awful as this may sound, I'm kind of glad Han Solo was killed off because maybe it signals that the baton is being passed and the sequels will in fact explore some new themes in the Star Wars universe.
Well, I don't know.....as I said above.....it is the redemption of Kylo Ren/Ben Solo now at stake rather than that of Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker....that seems like the same theme.
-
I disagree i think Kylo-Ren is beyond saving at this point. if you remember correctly luke killing his father was the ultimate act of commitment to the dark side of the force. Ben Solo Killed his father and permanently converted to the darkside. after further reflection i also have to come to the conclusion that Kylo-Ren is likely not a sith as we know them but likely an old empire sith which disregarded the rule of two.(only taking this from the fact kylo is the leader of the knights of ren and the flashback had multiple red lightsaber wielding people) I think the story arc will follow rey's journey of self discovery, more than the redemption of kylo ren who i really really hope will be a bit less anakin and a bit more darth vader...if you know what i mean..
-
I know EU is gone but they still seem to be using pieces of it. Pulling from novels and video games oddly. Rey Skywalker is the daughter of mara jade and Luke Skywalker. So they atleast kept that part it would seem. "Starkiller" was the name of vader's secret apprentice.
As far as rey having so much command of the force. She is a direct descendant of the force conceived Anakin Skywalker but luke and liea were not pureblooded force users. Neither is kylo ren for that matter or any jedi as they generally were not permitted wives. And the whole only two sith thing lol so no offspring there. So mara jade was immensely powerful and luke was also immensely powerful though young and untrained in 4,5 and 6.
Point being she is likely the most powerful force user due to anakin conceived by the force through a normal human mother. Luke and liea also conceived one part force user one part normal human. Rey may be the purest form of the chosen one both parents powerful force user's and direct descendant of the original chosen one. If EU was here she would also be born a predisposition for both the light and the darkside of the force. (Luke and mara both going to the dark side and to the light before rey was born)
You are making an assumption about who the mother of Rey is based on fan fiction. I don't know if Lucas/Abrams are going to pull out a concept from a fan fiction forum.....no matter how logical your assumption is....and how many clues there are that its true. (Luke's lightsaber responding to her...R2D2 respoding to her presence) And I agree, it is logical.
You are making an assumption about who the mother of Rey is based on fan fiction. I don't know if Lucas/Abrams are going to pull out a concept from a fan fiction forum.....no matter how logical your assumption is....and how many clues there are that its true. (Luke's lightsaber responding to her...R2D2 respoding to her presence) And I agree, it is logical.
The "fan fiction" was actually canon up until this movie was released and, while Lucas himself didn't come up with the concepts or stories, he did at least give his mark of approval on the overarching plot points (births, deaths, etc.) Lucas even used elements from the EU when making the prequels. It's more than a fan fic forum, it's been an entire series of published books and video games, all with the consent of Lucasfilms and, in most cases, their logo and backing on it.
I think there will be general aspects used - there already have been (Ben abandoning his training and taking on a dark moniker). I think we'll see that Rey is Luke's daughter, Ren killed Luke's Jedi wife and the young Jedi apprentices because of favoritism/rage, and that Luke shipped her to Jakku to protect her.
Once again, in regards to the issues that some folks are having with it being very similar to ANH... I think that is the exact point. I think it's a metaphor - we are destined to repeat the sins of our fathers, the faces and names change but the events cycle over time. The father teaches the son, the son tries to be better than/overtake his father, the son kills the father, the son has his own son and becomes the father, repeat as nauseum. Star Wars is and always has been heavy-handed with the father/son symbolism.
Luke/ Vader. Vader meaning father. Anakin literally having no father, then Obi Wan basically becoming his father. Han/Ren. Jango/Boba. The Master/Padawan relationship, etc.
Anakin had no father, then Obi Wan takes him under his wing. Anakin even says as much in Episode 2, saying he's basically his father. Then Anakin is forced to kill Obi Wan. Luke is forced time and again to fight his father, tying to defeat him, which he ultimately does. Ren taking out Han is just the next step in the same line...for two reasons.
1 - because Star Wars has to have that father/son conflict
2 - fans would revolt even more if Luke had become evil and had to be Killed.
-
You are making an assumption about who the mother of Rey is based on fan fiction. I don't know if Lucas/Abrams are going to pull out a concept from a fan fiction forum.....no matter how logical your assumption is....and how many clues there are that its true. (Luke's lightsaber responding to her...R2D2 respoding to her presence) And I agree, it is logical.
The "fan fiction" was actually canon up until this movie was released and, while Lucas himself didn't come up with the concepts or stories, he did at least give his mark of approval on the overarching plot points (births, deaths, etc.) Lucas even used elements from the EU when making the prequels. It's more than a fan fic forum, it's been an entire series of published books and video games, all with the consent of Lucasfilms and, in most cases, their logo and backing on it.
I think there will be general aspects used - there already have been (Ben abandoning his training and taking on a dark moniker). I think we'll see that Rey is Luke's daughter, Ren killed Luke's Jedi wife and the young Jedi apprentices because of favoritism/rage, and that Luke shipped her to Jakku to protect her.
Once again, in regards to the issues that some folks are having with it being very similar to ANH... I think that is the exact point. I think it's a metaphor - we are destined to repeat the sins of our fathers, the faces and names change but the events cycle over time. The father teaches the son, the son tries to be better than/overtake his father, the son kills the father, the son has his own son and becomes the father, repeat as nauseum. Star Wars is and always has been heavy-handed with the father/son symbolism.
Luke/ Vader. Vader meaning father. Anakin literally having no father, then Obi Wan basically becoming his father. Han/Ren. Jango/Boba. The Master/Padawan relationship, etc.
Anakin had no father, then Obi Wan takes him under his wing. Anakin even says as much in Episode 2, saying he's basically his father. Then Anakin is forced to kill Obi Wan. Luke is forced time and again to fight his father, tying to defeat him, which he ultimately does. Ren taking out Han is just the next step in the same line...for two reasons.
1 - because Star Wars has to have that father/son conflict
2 - fans would revolt even more if Luke had become evil and had to be Killed.
The "fan fiction" was actually canon up until this movie was released and, while Lucas himself didn't come up with the concepts or stories, he did at least give his mark of approval on the overarching plot points (births, deaths, etc.) Lucas even used elements from the EU when making the prequels. It's more than a fan fic forum, it's been an entire series of published books and video games, all with the consent of Lucasfilms and, in most cases, their logo and backing on it.
I think there will be general aspects used - there already have been (Ben abandoning his training and taking on a dark moniker). I think we'll see that Rey is Luke's daughter, Ren killed Luke's Jedi wife and the young Jedi apprentices because of favoritism/rage, and that Luke shipped her to Jakku to protect her.
Once again, in regards to the issues that some folks are having with it being very similar to ANH... I think that is the exact point. I think it's a metaphor - we are destined to repeat the sins of our fathers, the faces and names change but the events cycle over time. The father teaches the son, the son tries to be better than/overtake his father, the son kills the father, the son has his own son and becomes the father, repeat as nauseum. Star Wars is and always has been heavy-handed with the father/son symbolism.
Luke/ Vader. Vader meaning father. Anakin literally having no father, then Obi Wan basically becoming his father. Han/Ren. Jango/Boba. The Master/Padawan relationship, etc.
Anakin had no father, then Obi Wan takes him under his wing. Anakin even says as much in Episode 2, saying he's basically his father. Then Anakin is forced to kill Obi Wan. Luke is forced time and again to fight his father, tying to defeat him, which he ultimately does. Ren taking out Han is just the next step in the same line...for two reasons.
1 - because Star Wars has to have that father/son conflict
2 - fans would revolt even more if Luke had become evil and had to be Killed.
So, you are basically saying that the back story has already been written....and that we just have to go to some alternate source to learn what it is? (I have never read any of the books, played the video games nor watched the cartoon series.).
If what you say is true: Kylo Ren killed Luke's "wife"...Rey's mother.....that she is Luke's daughter....then can I assume that at some point in the next movie perhaps all that will be revealed to us non-gamers and book readers?
So....OK, the backstory is revealed....now where will they go with this.
Clearly the prime conflict is going to be between Rey and Ren..(coincidence that the names are similar?)
And did the "canon" say where this first Order and Snoke came from?
If the same pattern is to follow (history repeating itself), then Ren will have to be redeemed and Snoke will have to be killed.
Of course the good guys win in the end.
But....can there be redemption for Ben Solo.......he killed one of the main heroes of the tale...his father no less. Can there be any forgiveness for that?
And is Luke now to assume the Yoda role? The mentor....or will there be more to him in the future rather than being a recluse who will train Rey like Yoda trained him?
-
The "fan fiction" was actually canon up until this movie was released and, while Lucas himself didn't come up with the concepts or stories, he did at least give his mark of approval on the overarching plot points (births, deaths, etc.) Lucas even used elements from the EU when making the prequels. It's more than a fan fic forum, it's been an entire series of published books and video games, all with the consent of Lucasfilms and, in most cases, their logo and backing on it.
I think there will be general aspects used - there already have been (Ben abandoning his training and taking on a dark moniker). I think we'll see that Rey is Luke's daughter, Ren killed Luke's Jedi wife and the young Jedi apprentices because of favoritism/rage, and that Luke shipped her to Jakku to protect her.
Once again, in regards to the issues that some folks are having with it being very similar to ANH... I think that is the exact point. I think it's a metaphor - we are destined to repeat the sins of our fathers, the faces and names change but the events cycle over time. The father teaches the son, the son tries to be better than/overtake his father, the son kills the father, the son has his own son and becomes the father, repeat as nauseum. Star Wars is and always has been heavy-handed with the father/son symbolism.
Luke/ Vader. Vader meaning father. Anakin literally having no father, then Obi Wan basically becoming his father. Han/Ren. Jango/Boba. The Master/Padawan relationship, etc.
Anakin had no father, then Obi Wan takes him under his wing. Anakin even says as much in Episode 2, saying he's basically his father. Then Anakin is forced to kill Obi Wan. Luke is forced time and again to fight his father, tying to defeat him, which he ultimately does. Ren taking out Han is just the next step in the same line...for two reasons.
1 - because Star Wars has to have that father/son conflict
2 - fans would revolt even more if Luke had become evil and had to be Killed.
So, you are basically saying that the back story has already been written....and that we just have to go to some alternate source to learn what it is? (I have never read any of the books, played the video games nor watched the cartoon series.).
If what you say is true: Kylo Ren killed Luke's "wife"...Rey's mother.....that she is Luke's daughter....then can I assume that at some point in the next movie perhaps all that will be revealed to us non-gamers and book readers?
So....OK, the backstory is revealed....now where will they go with this.
Clearly the prime conflict is going to be between Rey and Ren..(coincidence that the names are similar?)
And did the "canon" say where this first Order and Snoke came from?
If the same pattern is to follow (history repeating itself), then Ren will have to be redeemed and Snoke will have to be killed.
Of course the good guys win in the end.
But....can there be redemption for Ben Solo.......he killed one of the main heroes of the tale...his father no less. Can there be any forgiveness for that?
And is Luke now to assume the Yoda role? The mentor....or will there be more to him in the future rather than being a recluse who will train Rey like Yoda trained him?
So, you are basically saying that the back story has already been written....and that we just have to go to some alternate source to learn what it is? (I have never read any of the books, played the video games nor watched the cartoon series.).
If what you say is true: Kylo Ren killed Luke's "wife"...Rey's mother.....that she is Luke's daughter....then can I assume that at some point in the next movie perhaps all that will be revealed to us non-gamers and book readers?
So....OK, the backstory is revealed....now where will they go with this.
Clearly the prime conflict is going to be between Rey and Ren..(coincidence that the names are similar?)
And did the "canon" say where this first Order and Snoke came from?
If the same pattern is to follow (history repeating itself), then Ren will have to be redeemed and Snoke will have to be killed.
Of course the good guys win in the end.
But....can there be redemption for Ben Solo.......he killed one of the main heroes of the tale...his father no less. Can there be any forgiveness for that?
And is Luke now to assume the Yoda role? The mentor....or will there be more to him in the future rather than being a recluse who will train Rey like Yoda trained him?
A backstory has already been written, but it might not be the same backstory. When this movie was announced, they officially deemed the entire EU as non-canon and said that, they might take bits and pieces here and there, if they fit.
There are similarities so far - Leia and Han having kid(s), one of them becoming a "Sith" lord, Leia taking over as the leader of the Rebellion (Resistance). But the details are different.
Snoke, First Order, all of that isn't mentioned in the EU. I'm sure we'll find out in the next movie where he's from.
If I had to predict it all, I'd say Rey is Luke's daughter. Ren/Ben got jealous in training, let his anger take over, killed Luke's wife. Rey was shipped to Jakku for her protection and has forgotten all of it.
Ren/Ben will eventually turn on Snoke, express regret over killing Han, save Rey from Snoke somehow and the "light" in him will shine through. Luke will die trying to protect Rey at some point. Rey will realize her Force powers and become a great Jedi. Ren/Ben will ultimately die at the hands of Snoke/First Order trying to save the Resistance.
No idea where Finn fits into this, he's a wild card. Logic would point to him assuming the role of Han - the comic relief, smart ass love interest...but I don't see that happening.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
The great thing about Star Wars being out is that security is so low on other things, I have DVD quality copies of of movies that are set to come out this week, Like the hateful 8 and the Revenant something else, costs way to much to take the family to the movies so.........................
-
The great thing about Star Wars being out is that security is so low on other things, I have DVD quality copies of of movies that are set to come out this week, Like the hateful 8 and the Revenant something else, costs way to much to take the family to the movies so.........................
The great thing about Star Wars being out is that security is so low on other things, I have DVD quality copies of of movies that are set to come out this week, Like the hateful 8 and the Revenant something else, costs way to much to take the family to the movies so.........................
It's Oscar screening season, that's probably why.
I've got most of the big ones so far in great quality, just gotta be careful.
-
So, you are basically saying that the back story has already been written....and that we just have to go to some alternate source to learn what it is? (I have never read any of the books, played the video games nor watched the cartoon series.).
If what you say is true: Kylo Ren killed Luke's "wife"...Rey's mother.....that she is Luke's daughter....then can I assume that at some point in the next movie perhaps all that will be revealed to us non-gamers and book readers?
So....OK, the backstory is revealed....now where will they go with this.
Clearly the prime conflict is going to be between Rey and Ren..(coincidence that the names are similar?)
And did the "canon" say where this first Order and Snoke came from?
If the same pattern is to follow (history repeating itself), then Ren will have to be redeemed and Snoke will have to be killed.
Of course the good guys win in the end.
But....can there be redemption for Ben Solo.......he killed one of the main heroes of the tale...his father no less. Can there be any forgiveness for that?
And is Luke now to assume the Yoda role? The mentor....or will there be more to him in the future rather than being a recluse who will train Rey like Yoda trained him?
A backstory has already been written, but it might not be the same backstory. When this movie was announced, they officially deemed the entire EU as non-canon and said that, they might take bits and pieces here and there, if they fit.
There are similarities so far - Leia and Han having kid(s), one of them becoming a "Sith" lord, Leia taking over as the leader of the Rebellion (Resistance). But the details are different.
Snoke, First Order, all of that isn't mentioned in the EU. I'm sure we'll find out in the next movie where he's from.
If I had to predict it all, I'd say Rey is Luke's daughter. Ren/Ben got jealous in training, let his anger take over, killed Luke's wife. Rey was shipped to Jakku for her protection and has forgotten all of it.
Ren/Ben will eventually turn on Snoke, express regret over killing Han, save Rey from Snoke somehow and the "light" in him will shine through. Luke will die trying to protect Rey at some point. Rey will realize her Force powers and become a great Jedi. Ren/Ben will ultimately die at the hands of Snoke/First Order trying to save the Resistance.
No idea where Finn fits into this, he's a wild card. Logic would point to him assuming the role of Han - the comic relief, smart ass love interest...but I don't see that happening.
A backstory has already been written, but it might not be the same backstory. When this movie was announced, they officially deemed the entire EU as non-canon and said that, they might take bits and pieces here and there, if they fit.
There are similarities so far - Leia and Han having kid(s), one of them becoming a "Sith" lord, Leia taking over as the leader of the Rebellion (Resistance). But the details are different.
Snoke, First Order, all of that isn't mentioned in the EU. I'm sure we'll find out in the next movie where he's from.
If I had to predict it all, I'd say Rey is Luke's daughter. Ren/Ben got jealous in training, let his anger take over, killed Luke's wife. Rey was shipped to Jakku for her protection and has forgotten all of it.
Ren/Ben will eventually turn on Snoke, express regret over killing Han, save Rey from Snoke somehow and the "light" in him will shine through. Luke will die trying to protect Rey at some point. Rey will realize her Force powers and become a great Jedi. Ren/Ben will ultimately die at the hands of Snoke/First Order trying to save the Resistance.
No idea where Finn fits into this, he's a wild card. Logic would point to him assuming the role of Han - the comic relief, smart ass love interest...but I don't see that happening.
What about Poe?
-
was no one else bothered by the fact that this new empire remade the deathstar only bigger but with the same flaws as the first one? Like really? And yet again a handful of x wings can get in there and fuck the whole thing up? really? It's like ROJ never happened, the empire just rebranded itself but took no real hit. In the books the rebels gain power and become the new republic or some shit like that. They regained coruscant, the seat of power. The empire had to withdraw to their original systems. I mean that only makes sense. Where was the battlefleet that undoubtedly would have engaged the new deathstar?
-
My personal take is that the movie was "very" good for about the first 1/2 to 3/4 of the movie. Than it got hasty and lazy. Maybe could have been two movies, or 3 hours like the LOTR movies. I don't know anyone that would have complained about a properly made 3 hour star wars movie. The death of Solo bothered me cause if you're gonna kill Han Solo, you gotta send that nicka off right. It was lame.
And snokes? really? what kind of gay ass name is that? I know this guy is gonna end up being the emperors old master, plagous or something like that....but couldn' t they have come up wth a better name than snokes? And Skywalker being surprised someone came up to him on his little island....like 1) you didn't feel someone coming through the force 2) you didn't hear that big ass starship landing on your little island?
-
I wasn't going to mention that until my review but you are 100% correct. Even though its a thousand times bigger than the old Death Star I can't imagine the engineer not saying to the client, "look guys remember when the fighter pilots went right down that ditch where there was that one spot that would blow up the entire thing? Did nobody notice that we just did the same thing again???"
WSS
-
They killed off Has Solo.... that was bs. Wasn't a reason to do that.
Did they kill off Indiana Jones in any of those movies?
HELL NO !
The special effects were wild, and it was fun. I think I could have written the last
fourth of the movie a lot better and more fun.
And Chewbakka gets injured? That's bs. What... sympathy for the old characters, they
weren't that great...whatever.
-
I wasn't surprised by that. Harrison Ford is pretty old and probably doesn't need the money at all.
Hence he doesn't want to get roped into another 2 or 3 movie series at this point in his life when he can pick and choose things he'd like to do.
WSS
-
One thing that bothered me is Rey is all like "Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a legend"
Like it's only been thirty years since the empire was overthrown. Han solo and Leia are still alive. Not enough time has passed for him to be forgotten and become a "legend" already. I mean it wasn't like he was a covert operator. He personally blew up the first death star and faced down vader.
-
One thing that bothered me is Rey is all like "Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a legend"
Like it's only been thirty years since the empire was overthrown. Han solo and Leia are still alive. Not enough time has passed for him to be forgotten and become a "legend" already. I mean it wasn't like he was a covert operator. He personally blew up the first death star and faced down vader.
One thing that bothered me is Rey is all like "Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a legend"
Like it's only been thirty years since the empire was overthrown. Han solo and Leia are still alive. Not enough time has passed for him to be forgotten and become a "legend" already. I mean it wasn't like he was a covert operator. He personally blew up the first death star and faced down vader.
30 years is a long time....plenty of time to become a legend. But the term you are thinking of is "myth" not legend....as in, some people didn't think he was real. To that extent, OK, he should not have been considered a myth...i.e. believed to not be real.
But Rey is very young....and out of touch on a far planet. So to her "myth" may be approptiate.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login