Browns skill players....best ever?
-
Yes....very fair to say.....And my point exactly...
Been hearing our QB's aren't getting a fair shake because they have no weapons.....
And I disagree......(and above are the stats to support that notion).....
Well, lets put it this way: I don't think anyone who is an "expert" at this is going to rate our offensive skill players other than QB as anywhere other than very low on the pecking order around the league.
But, yes, with the right triggerman....I do think these guys are serviceable.
But that is not to say that I don't think they need help.
It would NOT surprise me at all to see the Browns draft WR and RB help high in the next draft.
Well, lets put it this way: I don't think anyone who is an "expert" at this is going to rate our offensive skill players other than QB as anywhere other than very low on the pecking order around the league.
But, yes, with the right triggerman....I do think these guys are serviceable.
But that is not to say that I don't think they need help.
It would NOT surprise me at all to see the Browns draft WR and RB help high in the next draft.
Im not so sure about that myself......
Based on talent alone, Id put Josh Gordon up there with any receiver in the league....very much a legit #1 receiver(and the difference maker we are missing)
Benji would rate as good as anybody in the league as a #2......right?....he's top 25 right now....so, as a #2, he'd be right at the top
Barnidge is rated 4th in the league at TE.....in catches and yards.....so, how could you call him "low in the pecking order"??
Duke is rated #4 in the league for catches and yards too.........so another skill player at the top.....
So.....dont know why our guys shouldnt be considered top guys....they are all ranked with the top guys......and they are doing it on a disfunctional team with a messed up QB situation and no running game.....
So...call it what you want Gip.....all these guys have been as good as anyone else.....and collectively, there are very few teams with a WR, RB and TE all ranked at the top as receivers.....and add Josh Gordon to that mix and you want to call them "serviceable"...low on the pecking order?.....I dont get how that is.....
Id say.....so far....our "skill position" weakness is at QB and RB.....because I think with a running game and an EVEN better QB, it only stands to reason these guys would do even better.....
-
I luv ya Mud, you're like a fight trainer........ I get my ass kicked for 3 minutes, stumble over to the corner and there you are, telling me "I got this, great round son!"
Only real provisos I see, mud, are that:
- successful run games take plays away from pass attacks. Most extreme example was Bernie having a pair of 1000-yd RBs in the same season.
- % of time playing from behind vs. with the lead. Passing yards come easier in garbage time with the lead out of reach.
I luv ya Mud, you're like a fight trainer........ I get my ass kicked for 3 minutes, stumble over to the corner and there you are, telling me "I got this, great round son!"
lol.....
-
I suppose you should ask yourself, is best ever good enough? And far will that get ya?
-
I luv ya Mud, you're like a fight trainer........ I get my ass kicked for 3 minutes, stumble over to the corner and there you are, telling me "I got this, great round son!"
I luv ya Mud, you're like a fight trainer........ I get my ass kicked for 3 minutes, stumble over to the corner and there you are, telling me "I got this, great round son!"
HA!.....the only way to win is to believe you can.....
There is "some" good in this team......sprinkled about....
Only real provisos I see, mud, are that:
- successful run games take plays away from pass attacks. Most extreme example was Bernie having a pair of 1000-yd RBs in the same season.
- % of time playing from behind vs. with the lead. Passing yards come easier in garbage time with the lead out of reach.
Both fair points with merit.....
And if we get 2 thousand yard rushers(uber rare) then Im sure the receivers will have lower numbers......Bernies top receivers that year had 700 and 500 yards....(Newsome & Brennan, btw)
The next season..Mack & Byner combined for about 900 yds and the receivers totals gained incrementally.....still no big numbers guys, as Bernie spread it around to lots of receivers......
Again.....my point is that the guys we have "catching the ball" are good enough if we get....
1) Good blocking and protection from the O line
2) Consistent(or improved) production from the running game
3) A quarterback who can get the ball out quickly and accurately
-
Well, lets put it this way: I don't think anyone who is an "expert" at this is going to rate our offensive skill players other than QB as anywhere other than very low on the pecking order around the league.
But, yes, with the right triggerman....I do think these guys are serviceable.
But that is not to say that I don't think they need help.
It would NOT surprise me at all to see the Browns draft WR and RB help high in the next draft.
Im not so sure about that myself......
Based on talent alone, Id put Josh Gordon up there with any receiver in the league....very much a legit #1 receiver(and the difference maker we are missing)
Benji would rate as good as anybody in the league as a #2......right?....he's top 25 right now....so, as a #2, he'd be right at the top
Barnidge is rated 4th in the league at TE.....in catches and yards.....so, how could you call him "low in the pecking order"??
Duke is rated #4 in the league for catches and yards too.........so another skill player at the top.....
So.....dont know why our guys shouldnt be considered top guys....they are all ranked with the top guys......and they are doing it on a disfunctional team with a messed up QB situation and no running game.....
So...call it what you want Gip.....all these guys have been as good as anyone else.....and collectively, there are very few teams with a WR, RB and TE all ranked at the top as receivers.....and add Josh Gordon to that mix and you want to call them "serviceable"...low on the pecking order?.....I dont get how that is.....
Id say.....so far....our "skill position" weakness is at QB and RB.....because I think with a running game and an EVEN better QB, it only stands to reason these guys would do even better.....
Im not so sure about that myself......
Based on talent alone, Id put Josh Gordon up there with any receiver in the league....very much a legit #1 receiver(and the difference maker we are missing)
Benji would rate as good as anybody in the league as a #2......right?....he's top 25 right now....so, as a #2, he'd be right at the top
Barnidge is rated 4th in the league at TE.....in catches and yards.....so, how could you call him "low in the pecking order"??
Duke is rated #4 in the league for catches and yards too.........so another skill player at the top.....
So.....dont know why our guys shouldnt be considered top guys....they are all ranked with the top guys......and they are doing it on a disfunctional team with a messed up QB situation and no running game.....
So...call it what you want Gip.....all these guys have been as good as anyone else.....and collectively, there are very few teams with a WR, RB and TE all ranked at the top as receivers.....and add Josh Gordon to that mix and you want to call them "serviceable"...low on the pecking order?.....I dont get how that is.....
Id say.....so far....our "skill position" weakness is at QB and RB.....because I think with a running game and an EVEN better QB, it only stands to reason these guys would do even better.....
Well, of course your whole contention hinges on Josh Gordon being the Josh Gordon of a couple of years ago.
That is a big big IF. If he were the 1600 yards a year guy....you may be on to something. As it stands, without him (and I don't rely on him) yes, I think our skill players would be rated serviceable at best.
That's a big dominoe that would have to fall for everything to line up right.
-
Im not so sure about that myself......
Based on talent alone, Id put Josh Gordon up there with any receiver in the league....very much a legit #1 receiver(and the difference maker we are missing)
Benji would rate as good as anybody in the league as a #2......right?....he's top 25 right now....so, as a #2, he'd be right at the top
Barnidge is rated 4th in the league at TE.....in catches and yards.....so, how could you call him "low in the pecking order"??
Duke is rated #4 in the league for catches and yards too.........so another skill player at the top.....
So.....dont know why our guys shouldnt be considered top guys....they are all ranked with the top guys......and they are doing it on a disfunctional team with a messed up QB situation and no running game.....
So...call it what you want Gip.....all these guys have been as good as anyone else.....and collectively, there are very few teams with a WR, RB and TE all ranked at the top as receivers.....and add Josh Gordon to that mix and you want to call them "serviceable"...low on the pecking order?.....I dont get how that is.....
Id say.....so far....our "skill position" weakness is at QB and RB.....because I think with a running game and an EVEN better QB, it only stands to reason these guys would do even better.....
Well, of course your whole contention hinges on Josh Gordon being the Josh Gordon of a couple of years ago.
That is a big big IF. If he were the 1600 yards a year guy....you may be on to something. As it stands, without him (and I don't rely on him) yes, I think our skill players would be rated serviceable at best.
That's a big dominoe that would have to fall for everything to line up right.
Well, of course your whole contention hinges on Josh Gordon...
Id consider a solid running back.....but not early.....
I think Joshes chances of returning and being great are just as good, and actually better, than some unknown rookie coming in and taking over at the #1 spotand we have a boat load of #2 -#3 types already) ....so, if your pick isnt a #1, he's a wasted pick.....
Hey....anything can happen with him.....but I wouldnt spend a high pick on a WR when I have a guy like Gordon poised to return and several other guys who have just proven they can do it at a high level....
especially with so many other serious needs....especially on D.....
-
Well, of course your whole contention hinges on Josh Gordon...
Id consider a solid running back.....but not early.....
I think Joshes chances of returning and being great are just as good, and actually better, than some unknown rookie coming in and taking over at the #1 spotand we have a boat load of #2 -#3 types already) ....so, if your pick isnt a #1, he's a wasted pick.....
Hey....anything can happen with him.....but I wouldnt spend a high pick on a WR when I have a guy like Gordon poised to return and several other guys who have just proven they can do it at a high level....
especially with so many other serious needs....especially on D.....
Id consider a solid running back.....but not early.....
I think Joshes chances of returning and being great are just as good, and actually better, than some unknown rookie coming in and taking over at the #1 spotand we have a boat load of #2 -#3 types already) ....so, if your pick isnt a #1, he's a wasted pick.....
Well, that is fair to say. But extremism in defense of patriotism is no vice......(Barry Goldwater). If we had Josh and another #1 type or top, top #2...ain't nothing wrong with that.
Hey....anything can happen with him.....but I wouldnt spend a high pick on a WR when I have a guy like Gordon poised to return and several other guys who have just proven they can do it at a high level....
I might still do it.
especially with so many other serious needs....especially on D.....
but...of course this is clearly a valid point. Lets say Bosa.....but, if Bosa is taken with the #1 pick by the Tits...then who?
-
I luv ya Mud, you're like a fight trainer........ I get my ass kicked for 3 minutes, stumble over to the corner and there you are, telling me "I got this, great round son!"
HA!.....the only way to win is to believe you can.....
There is "some" good in this team......sprinkled about....
Only real provisos I see, mud, are that:
- successful run games take plays away from pass attacks. Most extreme example was Bernie having a pair of 1000-yd RBs in the same season.
- % of time playing from behind vs. with the lead. Passing yards come easier in garbage time with the lead out of reach.
Both fair points with merit.....
And if we get 2 thousand yard rushers(uber rare) then Im sure the receivers will have lower numbers......Bernies top receivers that year had 700 and 500 yards....(Newsome & Brennan, btw)
The next season..Mack & Byner combined for about 900 yds and the receivers totals gained incrementally.....still no big numbers guys, as Bernie spread it around to lots of receivers......
Again.....my point is that the guys we have "catching the ball" are good enough if we get....
1) Good blocking and protection from the O line
2) Consistent(or improved) production from the running game
3) A quarterback who can get the ball out quickly and accurately
HA!.....the only way to win is to believe you can.....
There is "some" good in this team......sprinkled about....
Agree. That's why it's real hard to see this as a 3-12 team.
The offense has been decent between the 20s, but tends to bog down in the red zone. If Josh Gordon can actually stay clean, come back and be close to his rookie year, the O improves immensely. It certainly wouldn't hurt to get another larger WR target in the draft.
Our RBs are serviceable, I wouldn't draft one at all before the 6th round.
-
So if we have all these good players and we are still 3-12, what does that say about the coaches?
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Dunno... I'm still trying to understand the whole prom thing...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
what Prom thing?
-
So if we have all these good players and we are still 3-12, what does that say about the coaches?
Always shocks me how so many people can miss a simple point......and then make it something else all together....
VesnaKociper said:
Winslow better than Ozzie? Don't be idiotic.
Example #1........what's idiotic, is that you think I said that..........(extra idiotic, actually)
So if we have all these good players and we are still 3-12, what does that say about the coaches?
It tells me they are extracting some pretty good performances from some historically average players on a team with no running game, no quarterback and no defense....
Dunno... I'm still trying to understand the whole prom thing...
Yeah....me too.....Ive determined it doesnt make sense....
VesnaKociper said:
Let me type slow. When you celebrate statistics of today's game and suggest that they are indicative that today's players are terriffic...
You've missed every point......
So.....for example.......if "todays" tight end is ranked #4 in the league.....does that not mean he's at the top of "todays" players?....
And.....if you have 4 players ranked somewhere near the top of "todays players", does that not mean you have 4 players who can compete at a high level against "todays players"?????
And....as an EXAMPLE...... if our team in 1986 had 2 skill players ranked at the top of the league and our team in 2015 had 5 players ranked at the top of the league....would it not stand to reason that we currently have more "top players" now, than we did then?......
-
HA!.....did the title get ya?.......found some very very interesting stats this week, which for me, offer much hope going into next season.....
For those who are open minded.....consider the following items for NEXT season.....
2016 Roster has: Josh Gordon, Gary Barnidge, Duke Johnson, Travis Benjiman and Andrew Hawkins...
NOTE: I did adjust this years #'s to reflect the one game left(added each players average to his total)
Now, consider the following Cleveland Browns "best ever single seasons" and/or records(for receiving)........
WR: Most yards ever in a season..........................................Josh Gordon #1 @ 1646 yds
...............................................................................................Travis Benjiman #8 @ 973 yds
WR: Most catches ever in a season......................................Josh Gordon #1 @ 87 catches
....................................................Andrew Hawkins & Travis Benjiman tied at #13@ 63 catches
TE: Most yards ever in a season........(1100 Winslow)..........Gary Barnidge #2 @ 1042 yds
TE: Most catches ever season......(89 Newsome/Winslow)..Gary Barnidge #4 @ 74 catches
RB: Most yards ever in a season....(Greg Pruitt 640 yds).....Duke Johnson #2 @ 533 yds
RB: Most catches in a season........(Greg Pruitt 65)..............Duke Johnson #4 @ 60 catches
So.....if you absorb these numbers and consider how many hundred(s) of WR's, RB's and TE's have played for the Browns...you have to concede that we have some pretty talented skill players compared to what weve had in the past......
Josh Gordon had the best season EVER for a WR.....so, is it possible that we will have the best receiver the Browns have ever had ....????
Gary Barnidge is have the second best season EVER for a TE.....and we've had a couple good ones....eh?......he just passed the best season Ozzie ever gave us(yds).....
Travis Benjiman is having a "top 10" season for Browns receivers....so, very possibly could end up being be the best #2 WR we've ever had................
Andrew Hawkins also had a "Top 20" receiving season....from the SLOT....giving him the best season for a #3 ever.....................
And Duke is already #2 on the RB receivers list and he's just a rookie....already up there with and passing guys like Gregg Pruitt and Eric Metcalf.....
So.....I KNOW people will scoff and say this is BS.....but, like I love to say....the numbers dont lie...
If we can fix the running game and blocking, along with some improved QB play, we have the skill players to get it done on offense right now......
Just gotta say.....I was VERY surprised to see all these guys at the top of the Browns "all-time" seasonal performers list.....
Does this help anyone????........curious....
HA!.....did the title get ya?......
It did make me think, "Mud's stirring the pot again."
Our RBs are serviceable, I wouldn't draft one at all before the 6th round.
Disagree... we lack a bell cow. Won't go crazy and prescribe we invest a Day 1 pick, but there will be some nice Day 2 values.
I like Crow, but he's inconsistent. I like Duke, but he's a 3rd down back...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
"With a top 5 offensive line and an awesome Duke Johnson the Browns will run the football very well this season" - Delusional Browns Fan circa August 2015
-
HA!.....did the title get ya?......
It did make me think, "Mud's stirring the pot again."
Our RBs are serviceable, I wouldn't draft one at all before the 6th round.
Disagree... we lack a bell cow. Won't go crazy and prescribe we invest a Day 1 pick, but there will be some nice Day 2 values.
I like Crow, but he's inconsistent. I like Duke, but he's a 3rd down back...
-
What do you think of Joe schobert out of wisconsin mud As a late rounder?
-
What do you think of Joe schobert out of wisconsin mud As a late rounder?
What do you think of Joe schobert out of wisconsin mud As a late rounder?
I think he'd be an awesome late round pick......but suspect he might go sooner than some might think....
-
there is so much wrong with this analysis.....for starters, Gordon not being in there was why some of the scrub secondary recievers are getting more targets. You can't include both totals. If Gordon starts 16 games next years, guys like Hawkins and Benji arent going to get as many targets. Second, as others have pointed out the nature of the nfl(especially in counting stats per season) is totally different in the passing game.
Without a healthy and not suspended gordon, the browns offensive skill people are worst in the league, or very close to it.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login