Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Man! I just wish that I had saved a 6pack of Billy Beer I got in 77
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I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
And I agree with you Mike. I have heard Carter talk about the shock of being dropped. For JM as a person we can only hope that would do it. Unlike some I still maintain he could be a very good QB sober and with the right team/coach.
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I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
And I agree with you Mike. I have heard Carter talk about the shock of being dropped. For JM as a person we can only hope that would do it. Unlike some I still maintain he could be a very good QB sober and with the right team/coach.
And I agree with you Mike. I have heard Carter talk about the shock of being dropped. For JM as a person we can only hope that would do it. Unlike some I still maintain he could be a very good QB sober and with the right team/coach.
Ag,
Carter has said many times that getting cut was the best thing that ever happened to him. I'm not saying that Johnny could also be a Hall of Famer like Carter, but I do agree with you that, given the right situation, he could rebound & be very good.
Mike
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I'd be more inclined to go all in on Goff if:
1) McCown didn't look as good as he did this year
2) there weren't so many QB's in this draft
3) there weren't some seemingly solid prospects in the next few years
4) Bosa wasn't in this draft
I really like Rosen, his passes are as effortless as Goff's, he's just as athletic, he has just as much poise, and he's only a freshman. With this trajectory and excluding any sort of injury, he's going to likely be the top QB...and maybe top overall pick... in whatever draft he comes out.
Not that I don't like Goff, he could possibly be the next Aaron Rodgers (I see more Flacco, though). He's very impressive and I've always been a proponent of "if he's your guy, get him."
But I think Rosen is THE guy, and I wouldn't be opposed to letting it ride with McCown for two years, taking a guy in the second or third as a project, and getting some immediate impact playmakers at other positions.
Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
1) This is also true. Hoping that McCown will make it through two years is not a smart idea.Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
2) Potential-wise? I think Wentz, Cook (and, to some extent Jones) possess the same potential - in that they have exhibited they are more than able to make any and all NFL throws. Goff is further along in his progression and is less of a risk (much less, in relation to Jones), but this isn't a draft that lacks in QB talent, by any means. It's probably no 1983 class, but in terms of QB depth, this class is better than plenty that we've seen. Don't forget that three, maybe four of these guys were hyped as first round talent, even #1 overall talent, at some point within the last 12 months.
I believe that there are three guys in this draft who will likely be starter level QB's for many years to come.
3) If he fails, I'm worried it will be the final nail in the coffin for the Browns attempting to draft a first round QB.
4) Bosa disappearing is still Bosa taking in two blockers, which is always a good thing. If Bosa commanded a double team every single play and only recorded 5 sacks a year, that would still be worth it, IMO. As long as we have a DC who can capitalize on that.
Which reminds me, is O'Neil really still around?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
1) This is also true. Hoping that McCown will make it through two years is not a smart idea.Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
2) Potential-wise? I think Wentz, Cook (and, to some extent Jones) possess the same potential - in that they have exhibited they are more than able to make any and all NFL throws. Goff is further along in his progression and is less of a risk (much less, in relation to Jones), but this isn't a draft that lacks in QB talent, by any means. It's probably no 1983 class, but in terms of QB depth, this class is better than plenty that we've seen. Don't forget that three, maybe four of these guys were hyped as first round talent, even #1 overall talent, at some point within the last 12 months.
I believe that there are three guys in this draft who will likely be starter level QB's for many years to come.
3) If he fails, I'm worried it will be the final nail in the coffin for the Browns attempting to draft a first round QB.
4) Bosa disappearing is still Bosa taking in two blockers, which is always a good thing. If Bosa commanded a double team every single play and only recorded 5 sacks a year, that would still be worth it, IMO. As long as we have a DC who can capitalize on that.
Which reminds me, is O'Neil really still around?
1) This is also true. Hoping that McCown will make it through two years is not a smart idea.
2) Potential-wise? I think Wentz, Cook (and, to some extent Jones) possess the same potential - in that they have exhibited they are more than able to make any and all NFL throws. Goff is further along in his progression and is less of a risk (much less, in relation to Jones), but this isn't a draft that lacks in QB talent, by any means. It's probably no 1983 class, but in terms of QB depth, this class is better than plenty that we've seen. Don't forget that three, maybe four of these guys were hyped as first round talent, even #1 overall talent, at some point within the last 12 months.
I believe that there are three guys in this draft who will likely be starter level QB's for many years to come.
3) If he fails, I'm worried it will be the final nail in the coffin for the Browns attempting to draft a first round QB.
4) Bosa disappearing is still Bosa taking in two blockers, which is always a good thing. If Bosa commanded a double team every single play and only recorded 5 sacks a year, that would still be worth it, IMO. As long as we have a DC who can capitalize on that.
Which reminds me, is O'Neil really still around?
I think we're basically on the same page. Hard to miss with the players mentioned although Cardale does scare me mentally & from a motivational standpoint, certainly not physically.
As far as O'Neil is concerned, yep, he is still on staff. Maybe one of the interview questions is..."How do ya like our Defensive Coordinator?" LOL
Mike
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Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
1) This is also true. Hoping that McCown will make it through two years is not a smart idea.Playing devils' advocate here...
1) Josh will be 37 before the season starts & has not been injury free. Neither age nor injury history guarantee 2 productive years.
2) Lots of QBs, but what is their productivity potential compared to Goff? I just view Goff as less of a gamble than the others.
3) If he fails, so will our record & we'll still be in a drafting position to go after them.
4) Bosa can be magnificent & Bosa can disappear. I'm not sold on Bosa, but who knows?
Goff looks like a good one, so why not strike while the iron is hot & we are in very good position to have a shot at him?
Mike
2) Potential-wise? I think Wentz, Cook (and, to some extent Jones) possess the same potential - in that they have exhibited they are more than able to make any and all NFL throws. Goff is further along in his progression and is less of a risk (much less, in relation to Jones), but this isn't a draft that lacks in QB talent, by any means. It's probably no 1983 class, but in terms of QB depth, this class is better than plenty that we've seen. Don't forget that three, maybe four of these guys were hyped as first round talent, even #1 overall talent, at some point within the last 12 months.
I believe that there are three guys in this draft who will likely be starter level QB's for many years to come.
3) If he fails, I'm worried it will be the final nail in the coffin for the Browns attempting to draft a first round QB.
4) Bosa disappearing is still Bosa taking in two blockers, which is always a good thing. If Bosa commanded a double team every single play and only recorded 5 sacks a year, that would still be worth it, IMO. As long as we have a DC who can capitalize on that.
Which reminds me, is O'Neil really still around?
Which reminds me, is O'Neil really still around?
Maybe O'neil is one of the coaches Haslem was talking about when he said he wanted to keep a few guys from Pettine's staff.
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We need a QB guys. I would absolutely love to bring in a lineman (especially if Thomas leaves) but, at this point, we are basically running a no show behind center so we really need to get that situation workable. I have to think we go Goff if he has a good combine.
I was really hoping Manzeil worked out so we didn't have to go this route as it will set us back even further but it just doesn't look like JM is going to either be with us or be sober enough to play at a high level. It's really unfortunate as he certainly showed some flashes of potentially being good.
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If you guys are confident that he will never ever play another decent game in the NFL then...
But truth be told I think a lot of the haters are worried he will eventually take Dallas to the playoffs and the Browns once again look like fools.
I personally think he'd do well with the Dallas team. How about you? Just from a gameplay and talent aspect?
I like my odds enough to bid him farewell... ASAP...
While I cannot say I can see him doing "well" in Jerrahland, I could see him doing better... at least as well as Wheezy... maybe as well as Cassell.
Supposedly Chonnine got a real cool reception on his post season interview.
WTF is "Chonnine"? And what is it's origin?
I like my odds enough to bid him farewell... ASAP...
While I cannot say I can see him doing "well" in Jerrahland, I could see him doing better... at least as well as Wheezy... maybe as well as Cassell.
WTF is "Chonnine"? And what is it's origin?
I've seen others use that term instead of Johnnie- sort of derogatory. Can we call him Chuggin' Chonnie?
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
i don't think he's trouble w a capital T, just an immature celebrity who has his priorities other places than how we would like the face of the Brown's franchise to conduct himself...and possibly an addict. as you correctly stated he is self-destructive more than a threat to others. would we prefer if our QB were a two time rapist [at least] or maybe a dog abuser perhaps?
what's the hurry, there are roster spots available in spades for the next 8+ months? he's already bought and paid for. cutting him now benefits him and potentially other teams. if you are gonna cut him do it late summer when roster spots are at a premium and so if another team signs him he's coming in way late and has to learn on the fly. why not make it hard for he and others to succeed rather than paving the way w an entire off season ahead of him?
he's shown flashes of talent and ability to drive the team down the field and score TDs rather than field goals, and without having to helicopter himself across the line. what was that a 22 play drive he led?? it was easily the longest in franchise history by several plays...with a below avg receiving core, Crow, and a rookie RB, but i guess that's easy to do and means nada. for a short QB he finds throwing lanes and had a fraction of the balls Weedz had batted down even though Wheezy is like 5" taller, for example.
because as you stated, chances are he will self destruct. i'd rather wait and see if he does or not until the very last minute. giving up early makes the Browns look like they failed rather than seeing for sure if he truly is a failure. the offseason can be a kind of probationary period leading up thru camp to next season. who knows, maybe he turns it around and feels indebted to us for sticking w him and if pressed into action plays all world for us. which brings me to my last points.
because the Browns play in the AFCN where they need as many QBs on the team that can win games as possible. because of this, he has value regardless of his off the field childish shenanigans that may bring national attention and ridicule, but in reality at least aren't crimes or dangerous to others. seriously, like the Browns national image is respected by otherd and untarnished or something. we look worse if we give up. we make him fetch coffee for a while we reclaim just a little respect back at least.
The trade window opens March 15, & if we can get a sack of seeds for Manziel, he's gone. You may not think so, but Manziel's off field antics DO reflect badly on the Browns organization. It's entirely possible he may have another incident or two before then, which will make cutting him almost mandatory. In that case his value to another team is about zilch. The Browns would probably get the national media seal of approval should they kick Manziel to the curb.
I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
Agree there BB. McCown isn't the long term answer, and Johnnie absolutely can't be trusted. So it will probably look like Goff- McCown- Shaw. (or some permutation of that) IMHO Davis was another Farmer mistake. I'd rather have a lesser talent for a third string quarterback that's reliable (Shaw) than a guy who can't even show up for treatment when he's supposed to.
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Why are you all so hard on him? This is entertainment at its best. He even has a magic dog in the circus tent.
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I just want to say that many of you guys are right...Manziel TOTALLY screwed over Pettine. One of the many sad things addicts do is hurt people that are nice to them the most. I feel for Pettine, I really do. The guy worked his ass off from basically a low level position in NFL, and FINALLY gets his chance to be a head coach and gets Johnny effing Manziel tossed in his lap.
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I like my odds enough to bid him farewell... ASAP...
While I cannot say I can see him doing "well" in Jerrahland, I could see him doing better... at least as well as Wheezy... maybe as well as Cassell.
WTF is "Chonnine"? And what is it's origin?
I've seen others use that term instead of Johnnie- sort of derogatory. Can we call him Chuggin' Chonnie?
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
i don't think he's trouble w a capital T, just an immature celebrity who has his priorities other places than how we would like the face of the Brown's franchise to conduct himself...and possibly an addict. as you correctly stated he is self-destructive more than a threat to others. would we prefer if our QB were a two time rapist [at least] or maybe a dog abuser perhaps?
what's the hurry, there are roster spots available in spades for the next 8+ months? he's already bought and paid for. cutting him now benefits him and potentially other teams. if you are gonna cut him do it late summer when roster spots are at a premium and so if another team signs him he's coming in way late and has to learn on the fly. why not make it hard for he and others to succeed rather than paving the way w an entire off season ahead of him?
he's shown flashes of talent and ability to drive the team down the field and score TDs rather than field goals, and without having to helicopter himself across the line. what was that a 22 play drive he led?? it was easily the longest in franchise history by several plays...with a below avg receiving core, Crow, and a rookie RB, but i guess that's easy to do and means nada. for a short QB he finds throwing lanes and had a fraction of the balls Weedz had batted down even though Wheezy is like 5" taller, for example.
because as you stated, chances are he will self destruct. i'd rather wait and see if he does or not until the very last minute. giving up early makes the Browns look like they failed rather than seeing for sure if he truly is a failure. the offseason can be a kind of probationary period leading up thru camp to next season. who knows, maybe he turns it around and feels indebted to us for sticking w him and if pressed into action plays all world for us. which brings me to my last points.
because the Browns play in the AFCN where they need as many QBs on the team that can win games as possible. because of this, he has value regardless of his off the field childish shenanigans that may bring national attention and ridicule, but in reality at least aren't crimes or dangerous to others. seriously, like the Browns national image is respected by otherd and untarnished or something. we look worse if we give up. we make him fetch coffee for a while we reclaim just a little respect back at least.
The trade window opens March 15, & if we can get a sack of seeds for Manziel, he's gone. You may not think so, but Manziel's off field antics DO reflect badly on the Browns organization. It's entirely possible he may have another incident or two before then, which will make cutting him almost mandatory. In that case his value to another team is about zilch. The Browns would probably get the national media seal of approval should they kick Manziel to the curb.
I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
Agree there BB. McCown isn't the long term answer, and Johnnie absolutely can't be trusted. So it will probably look like Goff- McCown- Shaw. (or some permutation of that) IMHO Davis was another Farmer mistake. I'd rather have a lesser talent for a third string quarterback that's reliable (Shaw) than a guy who can't even show up for treatment when he's supposed to.
But we extended Davis when Farmer was suspended so wouldn't that make him a Scheiner guy (maybe a Pettine guy)?Agree there BB. McCown isn't the long term answer, and Johnnie absolutely can't be trusted. So it will probably look like Goff- McCown- Shaw. (or some permutation of that) IMHO Davis was another Farmer mistake. I'd rather have a lesser talent for a third string quarterback that's reliable (Shaw) than a guy who can't even show up for treatment when he's supposed to.
Regardless I'd much rather keep Shaw since he's shown competence - but I hope we don't go through 3 QBs yet again in 2016
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I just want to say that many of you guys are right...Manziel TOTALLY screwed over Pettine. One of the many sad things addicts do is hurt people that are nice to them the most. I feel for Pettine, I really do. The guy worked his ass off from basically a low level position in NFL, and FINALLY gets his chance to be a head coach and gets Johnny effing Manziel tossed in his lap.
I just want to say that many of you guys are right...Manziel TOTALLY screwed over Pettine. One of the many sad things addicts do is hurt people that are nice to them the most. I feel for Pettine, I really do. The guy worked his ass off from basically a low level position in NFL, and FINALLY gets his chance to be a head coach and gets Johnny effing Manziel tossed in his lap.
I partially agree that Johnny's behaviour has been bad if the reports are accurate. On the other hand the quarterback position is not what led to the downfall of the 2015 Cleveland Browns.
NFL coaches don't keep their jobs after driving their team over a cliff.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I like my odds enough to bid him farewell... ASAP...
While I cannot say I can see him doing "well" in Jerrahland, I could see him doing better... at least as well as Wheezy... maybe as well as Cassell.
WTF is "Chonnine"? And what is it's origin?
I've seen others use that term instead of Johnnie- sort of derogatory. Can we call him Chuggin' Chonnie?
i don't think he's worthless on the field at all, actually i think he's way above average as a #3 QB.
i don't think he's trouble w a capital T, just an immature celebrity who has his priorities other places than how we would like the face of the Brown's franchise to conduct himself...and possibly an addict. as you correctly stated he is self-destructive more than a threat to others. would we prefer if our QB were a two time rapist [at least] or maybe a dog abuser perhaps?
what's the hurry, there are roster spots available in spades for the next 8+ months? he's already bought and paid for. cutting him now benefits him and potentially other teams. if you are gonna cut him do it late summer when roster spots are at a premium and so if another team signs him he's coming in way late and has to learn on the fly. why not make it hard for he and others to succeed rather than paving the way w an entire off season ahead of him?
he's shown flashes of talent and ability to drive the team down the field and score TDs rather than field goals, and without having to helicopter himself across the line. what was that a 22 play drive he led?? it was easily the longest in franchise history by several plays...with a below avg receiving core, Crow, and a rookie RB, but i guess that's easy to do and means nada. for a short QB he finds throwing lanes and had a fraction of the balls Weedz had batted down even though Wheezy is like 5" taller, for example.
because as you stated, chances are he will self destruct. i'd rather wait and see if he does or not until the very last minute. giving up early makes the Browns look like they failed rather than seeing for sure if he truly is a failure. the offseason can be a kind of probationary period leading up thru camp to next season. who knows, maybe he turns it around and feels indebted to us for sticking w him and if pressed into action plays all world for us. which brings me to my last points.
because the Browns play in the AFCN where they need as many QBs on the team that can win games as possible. because of this, he has value regardless of his off the field childish shenanigans that may bring national attention and ridicule, but in reality at least aren't crimes or dangerous to others. seriously, like the Browns national image is respected by otherd and untarnished or something. we look worse if we give up. we make him fetch coffee for a while we reclaim just a little respect back at least.
The trade window opens March 15, & if we can get a sack of seeds for Manziel, he's gone. You may not think so, but Manziel's off field antics DO reflect badly on the Browns organization. It's entirely possible he may have another incident or two before then, which will make cutting him almost mandatory. In that case his value to another team is about zilch. The Browns would probably get the national media seal of approval should they kick Manziel to the curb.
I don't see the point of keeping him as a 3rd stringer. Odds are he'd be inactive most of the time anyway.
We're going to draft another prospect which pretty much eliminates the need for Johnny at this point - see if he's got value
Agree there BB. McCown isn't the long term answer, and Johnnie absolutely can't be trusted. So it will probably look like Goff- McCown- Shaw. (or some permutation of that) IMHO Davis was another Farmer mistake. I'd rather have a lesser talent for a third string quarterback that's reliable (Shaw) than a guy who can't even show up for treatment when he's supposed to.
~~BREAKING NEWS~~ This just in! Johnny Manziel arrested last night for streaking the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame on a drunken bet!!
credit to my Pops for this one lol...he got me. at this point nearly anything regarding JmfM is believable.
TA69--spot on regarding Johnny maximizing and capitalizing by declaring at his peak. not good for us in retrespect but obviously good for his bank account. to do otherwise could be viewed as moronic.
The trade window opens March 15, & if we can get a sack of seeds for Manziel, he's gone. You may not think so, but Manziel's off field antics DO reflect badly on the Browns organization. It's entirely possible he may have another incident or two before then, which will make cutting him almost mandatory. In that case his value to another team is about zilch. The Browns would probably get the national media seal of approval should they kick Manziel to the curb.
i mostly agree, just playing devil's advocate and offering a voice for the voiceless in a nearly one-sided discussion.
if the Browns take a total loss on him and get nothing there will be no national vindication. we are in it until the end or we are jokes for taking a risk on him. as a mascot whipping boy riding pine he will garner us more respect than admitting to a catastrophic decision to move up and draft him. damage is done, no going back now, better off to own it.
can't undo what's done by running away now...and actually i am really coming around to the idea of having a crazy ass number 3 everyone in the U.S. can't seem to look away from. still viewing him as a viable starter would definitely make the new staff and us look bad...but as a backup stuck in perpetual purgatory he's lightning in a bottle.
if an offer is made absolutely take it. if not, ride it till the wheels fall off.
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I just want to say that many of you guys are right...Manziel TOTALLY screwed over Pettine. One of the many sad things addicts do is hurt people that are nice to them the most. I feel for Pettine, I really do. The guy worked his ass off from basically a low level position in NFL, and FINALLY gets his chance to be a head coach and gets Johnny effing Manziel tossed in his lap.
I partially agree that Johnny's behaviour has been bad if the reports are accurate. On the other hand the quarterback position is not what led to the downfall of the 2015 Cleveland Browns.
NFL coaches don't keep their jobs after driving their team over a cliff.
WSS
I partially agree that Johnny's behaviour has been bad if the reports are accurate. On the other hand the quarterback position is not what led to the downfall of the 2015 Cleveland Browns.
NFL coaches don't keep their jobs after driving their team over a cliff.
WSS
I think Johnny was bad for Pettine and the entire organization, but I agree it's definitely not the reason he lost his job.
Whether Pettine deserved to lose it or not is debatable - I think Farmer deserved the can and usually when you do that then the coach is kicked to the curb as well.
But we did have a lot of positive things going on with our defense, young homegrown pro bowlers like Haden, Ward, Gipson. We needed to bolster our front 7 with some premier talent. Then in Pettine's time our defense turned around and was one of the worst we've had since 99' (towards the end it got a little better despite all the injuries...not sure if because Pettine took some control away from his buddy O'Neil)
Regardless we're here - talking coach, GM, and draft prospects.
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The media circus was brought on by Johnny himself.
Not exactly accurate. His whole Heisman season he was never allowed to address the media as is Sumlin's policy for all true and redshirt freshmen. No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He did all the talking with his play, not with his fake dead girlfriend like Manti T'eo. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
Ah... so there's no downside to keeping JM... good to know.
No one ever heard a peep out of him until the Heisman acceptance speech. He was not the one who invented Johnny Football. Others did and the media circus created itself around that Legend.
Now did he perpetuate it? Different question and yes he certainly did AFTER he finished at A&M.
So JFF was not a HS manifestation which he embraced and perpetuated?
And he was never arrested for "failing to properly identify himself to police"?*
And he never used (money)sign-language until he walked across the Radio City stage?
Feels like more revisionist history going on here than in two chapters of a Texas HS History book...
*Just realized how the recent Vegas disguise is just another step towards squaring this circle.
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Oh No! Not the money sign again!
WSS
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probably not.....but maybe your interpretation of Tours sarcastic comment was.....
I'm English mate, make of that what you will, I'm sure it increases any opinion of my cluelessness, knock me on sarcasm, fair enough, don't get me started on your american lack of understanding IRONY though!! ?
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I wouldn't call myself a "Johnny Apologist", but I was definitely a "Johnny Hopeful". I was hopeful that he'd put it together. I was hopeful that our search for a QB was over. I was hoping, beyond hope, that Johnny had enough wake up calls and knew that he was getting down to his last chance with our team. Obviously, I was wrong. My hope was severely displaced, and Johnny couldn't change. While technically still on our team, it's safe to say that Manziel will be traded for a $5 footlong or simply cut from our roster. Yet another first round pick that washes out in two years. The list is getting quite ugly.
I've spoken about addiction before, and I'll make mention of it again. Many weeks ago when Johnny had that incident with his girlfriend, Mary Kay Cabot wrote an article which specifically stated Manziel should immediately go back into rehab. She was chided and she took some heat. After all, she's not the...uh...best reporter out there (in many eyes), but it appears that she could actually be right for once. Not many addicts get sobriety right the first time, in fact, few do. The vast majority of addicts that get treatment show improvement temporarily, but then drift back to their old habits. Slowly at first, and then before they know it, they're actually WORSE than they were originally. Manipulating people, lying, and covering tracks are all staples of addictive behavior. I could be wrong, and I obviously have zero inside information, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager Manziel is not complying with his treatment plan. He's not going to meetings. He's not speaking with his sponsor. He's not doing the things he was taught in his 10 weeks of rehab.
Many people don't believe that addiction is a type of disease. After all, people were born with free will, and Johnny is choosing to drink, lie, cheat, and party. Yes, but it's not that simple. Addiction IS a disease, and it's an awful one. In fact, it's the only disease I can think of that actually causes the brain to tell the person they DON'T HAVE IT. Think about that for a second. If he's an addict, and it appears that he is, Johnny's brain is telling him that he doesn't have a problem. That people are blowing it out of proportion. That most men in their 20's like to party, and why should he be different? There is a good chance that Johnny is very ill. That he needs treatment. Did the Chiefs cut Eric Berry after his cancer diagnosis? Of course not. But what if cancer made someone inclined to lie, to cheat, and to act like a jerk. Would it be different then?
Before people start to tell me how different the circumstances are, I realize they have many discrepancies between them, but I also see the similarities. I see someone with great athletic ability who is afflicted with a terrible disease. I see this disease tearing his life apart, and taking his dreams from him. Many of us either know someone close to us who struggled with addiction, or we ourselves did. It's THAT common. The easy thing to do would be to trade him or cut him. Let another team deal with the drama, and let's start the building process over again.
I've written several statements on here saying I'm completely done with Manziel, and that I didn't even want to write his name. But I think I've changed my mind. If he changes his tune, if he makes a serious CONTINUED commitment to getting better, than I say to keep him. That's right, let's keep the kid. I would think the entire world thinks we should get rid of him. As evidence of our recent personnel hires, we don't do what people expect anymore. Our coaches aren't babysitters, and our players shouldn't have to be hammered with questions regarding Manziel...I get that. But at the same time, I see a young man in trouble. Bigger trouble than maybe he thinks. Addicts that don't receive treatment, and don't ALWAYS work on their affliction wind up in three places: jails, institutions, and cemeteries. I want him to turn it around. Not just because he's a first round pick, but because we can help him...if he decides to help himself. I'm sure I'll get panned for this, but Johnny is somebody's son. As much of a privileged, arrogant, unapologetic prick as he appears to be....I still want him to have a good life.
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles. He said that is when he "hit bottom", got the help he needed, & stuck to it. Getting dropped from the LeBron James tree might do it, but I think it might take more, such as getting his walking papers. That MAY do Johnny "the person" a huge favor, but only time will tell. At this point, I'm of the belief that his remaining a Brown will only enable & possibly escalate his downhill slide.
All this being said, that's just my opinion.
Mike
lol... more if he has been, then he'd know what the site's #1 hater's (maybe #2?) position is...
I totally agree with you, EXCEPT keeping him. If the Browns do keep him, so be it, but as Chris Carter has said many times, the best thing that ever happened to him was getting cut by the Eagles.
I get where you are coming from, but didn't Carter's release come as a surprise? Didn't he want and expect to continue to play for Philly? That does not appear to be the case now.
And I have no idea what Carter's endorsement deals entailed or what management firm (if any) he was signed with, but from all appearances JM idolized LBJ. So if the drop already on the books is not the "cold slap in the face" JM needed, then I don't think anything the Browns might do will reach him.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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