Goff Or Lynch @2?
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I think when the combine and pro days and all that crap start to come around he'll emerge as the consensus #1 pick. People question the competition level and don't really know too much about him - but once all of that comes around it should remove all doubt and I can just say "you heard it here first"
QBs are higher risk/higher reward in general because it's the hardest position to adapt to from college to the NFL - but Hue is a pretty good guy to have to develop a young QB, ditto with Flip, O'Connell, and McCown provided we keep Flip/O'Connell
We have already suffered the risk of choosing QBs in the first round......When will we see our reward? I am not certain this is the year for it.
We have already suffered the risk of choosing QBs in the first round......When will we see our reward? I am not certain this is the year for it.
When we stop drafting drunk midgets, old men, and Brady Quinn bodybuilders in the first round
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So, and forgive me if I'm being obtuse and missing your point, you believe Goff is one of the two best quarterbacks in the last four drafts?
If that's the case I'd say he's certainly worth the second pick.
WSS
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Certainly one of the three best, Steve. Hard to place him vs. Winston due to the latter's off-field concerns.
Agree, bb?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We have already suffered the risk of choosing QBs in the first round......When will we see our reward? I am not certain this is the year for it.
When we stop drafting drunk midgets, old men, and Brady Quinn bodybuilders in the first round
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Certainly one of the three best, Steve. Hard to place him vs. Winston due to the latter's off-field concerns.
Agree, bb?
Certainly one of the three best, Steve. Hard to place him vs. Winston due to the latter's off-field concerns.
Agree, bb?
I agree, I'm almost to the point of "best since Luck", which would make him #1 in 2013, 14, 15. Of course, it's still pretty early and something major could happen to change my mind (though I don't forecast it)
Winston lost me at "show ne da boobies"
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Certainly one of the three best, Steve. Hard to place him vs. Winston due to the latter's off-field concerns.
Agree, bb?
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I say neither at #2 - hear me out.
- #2 - Bosa.
- #32 - We hope to god Jaylon Smith falls to #32 because of his destroyed-to-shit knee. If he doesn't we just pick between Reggie Ragland, Shilique Calhoun, Michael Thomas, Laquan Treadwell, Shaq Lawson, or Josh Doctson (I include this wide range of players because I haven't watched extensive film on them but I assume they will be available in this area and have skill sets that I like as of this current moment...again, pre-film).
- #65 - Cardale Jones.
- #96 - Trade for 2017 third.
- #129 - Trade for 2017 fourth.
- 5th round compensatory - take best SS available
- Probable other 5th round compensatory - BPA if can't trade.
- The rest - move to 2017 assets if possible.
- We trade Johnny Manziel to Dallas for whatever we can get - ideally a 2017 third, but likely not. Probably more in the range of a fifth.
We go into the season with Josh McCown at the helm and let Cardale ride the bench. Now, ideally Cardale would take over in training camp, pass for 5,000+ yards, become a future HOF QB and lead us to the Super Bowl next season and every season for the next 12-15 years.
But that is highly unlikely to happen.
What will likely more happen is that Cardale will struggle to grasp the playbook, he'll play sparingly in the preseason and look lost, and then never see the field until Josh McCown comes down with an injury. But that's fine. Because we win 4 games next season under McCown, then only one under Cardale - putting us at 5-11 and picking 5th.
Then we:
- Package our 2017 first and second and our 2018 first and second, move up to #1 and take Deshaun Watson.
- 3rd round - BPA OL
- 3rd round (via trade) - BPA WR
- 4th round - trade for 2018 3rd round
- 4th round (via trade) - trade for 2018 3rd round
- Trade for future assets
This plan allows us to take the likely BPA available in this draft (Bosa), get a strong LB (a position of need) and take a QB - while accounting for the fact that the QB we get in 2016 might not work out. It's a plan with a built-in backup plan.
I did this just to piss everyone off.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I say neither at #2 - hear me out.
- #2 - Bosa.
- #32 - We hope to god Jaylon Smith falls to #32 because of his destroyed-to-shit knee. If he doesn't we just pick between Reggie Ragland, Shilique Calhoun, Michael Thomas, Laquan Treadwell, Shaq Lawson, or Josh Doctson (I include this wide range of players because I haven't watched extensive film on them but I assume they will be available in this area and have skill sets that I like as of this current moment...again, pre-film).
- #65 - Cardale Jones.
- #96 - Trade for 2017 third.
- #129 - Trade for 2017 fourth.
- 5th round compensatory - take best SS available
- Probable other 5th round compensatory - BPA if can't trade.
- The rest - move to 2017 assets if possible.
- We trade Johnny Manziel to Dallas for whatever we can get - ideally a 2017 third, but likely not. Probably more in the range of a fifth.
We go into the season with Josh McCown at the helm and let Cardale ride the bench. Now, ideally Cardale would take over in training camp, pass for 5,000+ yards, become a future HOF QB and lead us to the Super Bowl next season and every season for the next 12-15 years.
But that is highly unlikely to happen.
What will likely more happen is that Cardale will struggle to grasp the playbook, he'll play sparingly in the preseason and look lost, and then never see the field until Josh McCown comes down with an injury. But that's fine. Because we win 4 games next season under McCown, then only one under Cardale - putting us at 5-11 and picking 5th.
Then we:
- Package our 2017 first and second and our 2018 first and second, move up to #1 and take Deshaun Watson.
- 3rd round - BPA OL
- 3rd round (via trade) - BPA WR
- 4th round - trade for 2018 3rd round
- 4th round (via trade) - trade for 2018 3rd round
- Trade for future assets
This plan allows us to take the likely BPA available in this draft (Bosa), get a strong LB (a position of need) and take a QB - while accounting for the fact that the QB we get in 2016 might not work out. It's a plan with a built-in backup plan.
I did this just to piss everyone off.
I did this just to piss everyone off.
Well, in that case you failed miserably...
Not that I agree with every delusional step, but trading picks forward fits if we are not prepared for this draft or want to make 2016 a "mock draft" to check out our processes. And once you accept that possibility for whatever reason, then the rest becomes plausible.
Actually brings forth another useful tool that I may have mentioned in past years... Scenario Planning. One of the most powerful business tools I ever came across...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
Hue jackson is a nice hire bit I'm not sure how you guys are so hyped up about the draft when Cleveland's actual, winning, superstar team, your Cleveland Cavaliers have a huge game against the spurs tonight. It's a travesty that the cavs get so little play here when they're giving us so much to actually feel good about. Go Cavs!
I'm following too- it's pretty fun to see a team win on a consistent basis for a change.
To be fair the Texans play in a crappy division with other perennial losers where as we play in a division with two and sometimes three bullies/perennial playoff teams.
I know Steve commented- but not only that, Andrew Luck missed around 1\2 the season, and the rest of the team was pretty beat up.
Agree... easier to see Goff's transition to the Pros than it was Mariotta's or Bortles' or any other recent QB not named Luck... or maybe Winston. And he comes without any off-field baggage.
Mentioned that Tour. Care to comment if my preliminary observation comparing Goff to Sam Bradford, who went #1 overall is a fair one?
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I did this just to piss everyone off.
Well, in that case you failed miserably...
Not that I agree with every delusional step, but trading picks forward fits if we are not prepared for this draft or want to make 2016 a "mock draft" to check out our processes. And once you accept that possibility for whatever reason, then the rest becomes plausible.
Actually brings forth another useful tool that I may have mentioned in past years... Scenario Planning. One of the most powerful business tools I ever came across...
Well, in that case you failed miserably...
Not that I agree with every delusional step, but trading picks forward fits if we are not prepared for this draft or want to make 2016 a "mock draft" to check out our processes. And once you accept that possibility for whatever reason, then the rest becomes plausible.
Actually brings forth another useful tool that I may have mentioned in past years... Scenario Planning. One of the most powerful business tools I ever came across...
Not you, specifically. You've always seemingly been receptive to most of my crazy draft scenarios.
Scenario planning is almost one hundred percent how I look at the NFL Draft. There is no end-all, be-all perfect draft, there are just scenarios that are beneficial to building the team the way you want. Scenario one, which many seem to be fond of, is adding the top QB this year - which is fine. But it's not the only way (especially if you believe that the top guy next year is better than the top guy this year).
All that said, I don't dislike Goff and wouldn't be opposed to taking him this year. I just like thinking outside of the box.
As for trade values - I always err toward the highest possible value, hence my valuation of Johnny as a third when he's more of a turd.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I think Dallas gets RG3 and Johnny heads to Canada.
It kinda worked for Doug Flutie right?
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Well, in that case you failed miserably...
Not that I agree with every delusional step, but trading picks forward fits if we are not prepared for this draft or want to make 2016 a "mock draft" to check out our processes. And once you accept that possibility for whatever reason, then the rest becomes plausible.
Actually brings forth another useful tool that I may have mentioned in past years... Scenario Planning. One of the most powerful business tools I ever came across...
Not you, specifically. You've always seemingly been receptive to most of my crazy draft scenarios.
Scenario planning is almost one hundred percent how I look at the NFL Draft. There is no end-all, be-all perfect draft, there are just scenarios that are beneficial to building the team the way you want. Scenario one, which many seem to be fond of, is adding the top QB this year - which is fine. But it's not the only way (especially if you believe that the top guy next year is better than the top guy this year).
All that said, I don't dislike Goff and wouldn't be opposed to taking him this year. I just like thinking outside of the box.
As for trade values - I always err toward the highest possible value, hence my valuation of Johnny as a third when he's more of a turd.
Kinda worked...
Scenario planning is almost one hundred percent how I look at the NFL Draft.
I've made an attempt to get a message to Sashi asking if he's heard of the book, but I may just send him a copy.
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I say neither at #2 - hear me out.
- #2 - Bosa.
- #32 - We hope to god Jaylon Smith falls to #32 because of his destroyed-to-shit knee. If he doesn't we just pick between Reggie Ragland, Shilique Calhoun, Michael Thomas, Laquan Treadwell, Shaq Lawson, or Josh Doctson (I include this wide range of players because I haven't watched extensive film on them but I assume they will be available in this area and have skill sets that I like as of this current moment...again, pre-film).
- #65 - Cardale Jones.
- #96 - Trade for 2017 third.
- #129 - Trade for 2017 fourth.
- 5th round compensatory - take best SS available
- Probable other 5th round compensatory - BPA if can't trade.
- The rest - move to 2017 assets if possible.
- We trade Johnny Manziel to Dallas for whatever we can get - ideally a 2017 third, but likely not. Probably more in the range of a fifth.
We go into the season with Josh McCown at the helm and let Cardale ride the bench. Now, ideally Cardale would take over in training camp, pass for 5,000+ yards, become a future HOF QB and lead us to the Super Bowl next season and every season for the next 12-15 years.
But that is highly unlikely to happen.
What will likely more happen is that Cardale will struggle to grasp the playbook, he'll play sparingly in the preseason and look lost, and then never see the field until Josh McCown comes down with an injury. But that's fine. Because we win 4 games next season under McCown, then only one under Cardale - putting us at 5-11 and picking 5th.
Then we:
- Package our 2017 first and second and our 2018 first and second, move up to #1 and take Deshaun Watson.
- 3rd round - BPA OL
- 3rd round (via trade) - BPA WR
- 4th round - trade for 2018 3rd round
- 4th round (via trade) - trade for 2018 3rd round
- Trade for future assets
This plan allows us to take the likely BPA available in this draft (Bosa), get a strong LB (a position of need) and take a QB - while accounting for the fact that the QB we get in 2016 might not work out. It's a plan with a built-in backup plan.
I did this just to piss everyone off.
I say neither at #2 - hear me out.
- #2 - Bosa.
- #32 - We hope to god Jaylon Smith falls to #32 because of his destroyed-to-shit knee. If he doesn't we just pick between Reggie Ragland, Shilique Calhoun, Michael Thomas, Laquan Treadwell, Shaq Lawson, or Josh Doctson (I include this wide range of players because I haven't watched extensive film on them but I assume they will be available in this area and have skill sets that I like as of this current moment...again, pre-film).
- #65 - Cardale Jones.
- #96 - Trade for 2017 third.
- #129 - Trade for 2017 fourth.
- 5th round compensatory - take best SS available
- Probable other 5th round compensatory - BPA if can't trade.
- The rest - move to 2017 assets if possible.
- We trade Johnny Manziel to Dallas for whatever we can get - ideally a 2017 third, but likely not. Probably more in the range of a fifth.
We go into the season with Josh McCown at the helm and let Cardale ride the bench. Now, ideally Cardale would take over in training camp, pass for 5,000+ yards, become a future HOF QB and lead us to the Super Bowl next season and every season for the next 12-15 years.
But that is highly unlikely to happen.
What will likely more happen is that Cardale will struggle to grasp the playbook, he'll play sparingly in the preseason and look lost, and then never see the field until Josh McCown comes down with an injury. But that's fine. Because we win 4 games next season under McCown, then only one under Cardale - putting us at 5-11 and picking 5th.
Then we:
- Package our 2017 first and second and our 2018 first and second, move up to #1 and take Deshaun Watson.
- 3rd round - BPA OL
- 3rd round (via trade) - BPA WR
- 4th round - trade for 2018 3rd round
- 4th round (via trade) - trade for 2018 3rd round
- Trade for future assets
This plan allows us to take the likely BPA available in this draft (Bosa), get a strong LB (a position of need) and take a QB - while accounting for the fact that the QB we get in 2016 might not work out. It's a plan with a built-in backup plan.
I did this just to piss everyone off.
It doesn't piss me off. I don't think it's the worst plan in the world.
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I say neither at #2 - hear me out.
- #2 - Bosa.
- #32 - We hope to god Jaylon Smith falls to #32 because of his destroyed-to-shit knee. If he doesn't we just pick between Reggie Ragland, Shilique Calhoun, Michael Thomas, Laquan Treadwell, Shaq Lawson, or Josh Doctson (I include this wide range of players because I haven't watched extensive film on them but I assume they will be available in this area and have skill sets that I like as of this current moment...again, pre-film).
- #65 - Cardale Jones.
- #96 - Trade for 2017 third.
- #129 - Trade for 2017 fourth.
- 5th round compensatory - take best SS available
- Probable other 5th round compensatory - BPA if can't trade.
- The rest - move to 2017 assets if possible.
- We trade Johnny Manziel to Dallas for whatever we can get - ideally a 2017 third, but likely not. Probably more in the range of a fifth.
We go into the season with Josh McCown at the helm and let Cardale ride the bench. Now, ideally Cardale would take over in training camp, pass for 5,000+ yards, become a future HOF QB and lead us to the Super Bowl next season and every season for the next 12-15 years.
But that is highly unlikely to happen.
What will likely more happen is that Cardale will struggle to grasp the playbook, he'll play sparingly in the preseason and look lost, and then never see the field until Josh McCown comes down with an injury. But that's fine. Because we win 4 games next season under McCown, then only one under Cardale - putting us at 5-11 and picking 5th.
Then we:
- Package our 2017 first and second and our 2018 first and second, move up to #1 and take Deshaun Watson.
- 3rd round - BPA OL
- 3rd round (via trade) - BPA WR
- 4th round - trade for 2018 3rd round
- 4th round (via trade) - trade for 2018 3rd round
- Trade for future assets
This plan allows us to take the likely BPA available in this draft (Bosa), get a strong LB (a position of need) and take a QB - while accounting for the fact that the QB we get in 2016 might not work out. It's a plan with a built-in backup plan.
I did this just to piss everyone off.
It doesn't piss me off. I don't think it's the worst plan in the world.
It doesn't piss me off. I don't think it's the worst plan in the world.
OK-but no way Dallas gives the Browns a 5th unless they pass it on to JM.
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OK-but no way Dallas gives the Browns a 5th unless they pass it on to JM.
But what if I'm assuming that Chip Kelly wants Johnny Manziel - thus creating a bidding war? Now, its likely Kelly wouldn't be able to offer a fifth for him - but he may offer Kaepernick and a sixth, which we could then run to Jerrah and say "hey look, this is what's on the table - beat it or we take it."
I also wouldn't mind seeing a Manziel / Kaepernick trade and then we go into 2016 evaluating Kaep - as long as the Watson plan is still in effect for when Kaep proves he's garbage.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I assume Kelly doesn't get nearly as much say in personnel, so if he tells the FO he wants Johnny he might get "fuck no"
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We currently have 4 QBs on the roster that are better than anyone in the draft for the 2016 season. If we draft another Qb in the first round this year it's gonna be business as usual, another miserable season. We need defense and WRs.
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We currently have 4 QBs on the roster that are better than anyone in the draft for the 2016 season. If we draft another Qb in the first round this year it's gonna be business as usual, another miserable season. We need defense and WRs.
We currently have 4 QBs on the roster that are better than anyone in the draft for the 2016 season. If we draft another Qb in the first round this year it's gonna be business as usual, another miserable season. We need defense and WRs.
That is a false statement.
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We currently have 4 QBs on the roster that are better than anyone in the draft for the 2016 season. If we draft another Qb in the first round this year it's gonna be business as usual, another miserable season. We need defense and WRs.
That is a false statement.
That is a false statement.
We might have one QB on the roster who is better than anyone we could draft this year. McCown would probably play better than any rookie this year. I wouldn't bet against Goff or Lynch outplaying Davis, Shaw or the vegas village idiot.
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Mccown is still not a good quarterback. He's still a stopgap solution.
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