Here Is My Concern If We Take A Qb At #2......
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if goff is such a consensus #1 qb prospect, we're going to have to move to 1 to get him. I cant predict the future(although anyone who has followed me on this board knows Ive done a pretty damn good job of it the last year or so), but right now he's just not viewed as good enough to make us go to #1 to get him.
if goff is such a consensus #1 qb prospect, we're going to have to move to 1 to get him. I cant predict the future(although anyone who has followed me on this board knows Ive done a pretty damn good job of it the last year or so), but right now he's just not viewed as good enough to make us go to #1 to get him.
Then If we don't move to #1, you think another team is going to give up even more to get him? Not likely. I already laid out the scenarios for you . It would cost the Browns their second rounder to move up. Dallas would have to cough up their first, second and next years first. San Fan would have to offer up three firsts. We're in a rebuild mode, and can't afford to give up picks. If someone takes Goff ahead of us. We'll sit pat and take Bosa.
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if goff is such a consensus #1 qb prospect, we're going to have to move to 1 to get him. I cant predict the future(although anyone who has followed me on this board knows Ive done a pretty damn good job of it the last year or so), but right now he's just not viewed as good enough to make us go to #1 to get him.
Then If we don't move to #1, you think another team is going to give up even more to get him? Not likely. I already laid out the scenarios for you . It would cost the Browns their second rounder to move up. Dallas would have to cough up their first, second and next years first. San Fan would have to offer up three firsts. We're in a rebuild mode, and can't afford to give up picks. If someone takes Goff ahead of us. We'll sit pat and take Bosa.
Then If we don't move to #1, you think another team is going to give up even more to get him? Not likely. I already laid out the scenarios for you . It would cost the Browns their second rounder to move up. Dallas would have to cough up their first, second and next years first. San Fan would have to offer up three firsts. We're in a rebuild mode, and can't afford to give up picks. If someone takes Goff ahead of us. We'll sit pat and take Bosa.
I agree we don't move to #1, but I don't see Dallas or San Fran moving up either.
Dallas isn't hard pressed to replace Romo, their best bet is taking talent and trying to win now.
SF is also in rebuild mode and I can't see them paying the price it would take to get #1.
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Then who is your QB outside of a fragile McCown ?
My back up QB is the guy who ends up on the top of the draft board at any given time. Don't care how many rounds pass. That's simply all you will get out of them season 1.
"Don't care how many rounds pass" ? "At any given time" ? So you're willing to put anyone out there WHEN McCown goes down ? Better make sure the backup is a potential starter because he WILL end up starting.My back up QB is the guy who ends up on the top of the draft board at any given time. Don't care how many rounds pass. That's simply all you will get out of them season 1.
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The Titans are rebuilding too, why would they give up first pick (genuine question)?
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Bradford - Newton - Luck - Griffin - Bortles - Winston - Mariota
These are the guys taken where everyone wants to take Goff. Where do you rank Goff on that list based on what you knew about those other guys coming out of college? I rank him dead last on that list myself. And for me that begs the question 'does he belong?'. Hell, I would put him in the EJ Manuel category coming out. There is not enough there to say Goff is worthy. He lived off shit competition and was very inconsistent. All those guys on that list elevated their teams to contenders and powerhouses. Goff did not.
If Wentz has a great Senior Bowl and combine, Goff may not even be the #1 QB in the draft. It's silly to suggest we've seen enough from Goff to crown him at #2.
It is early, and yes, things may still change. But it is not silly, if you have watched tape on him... and I have.
As to your list...
- Luck is the clear number one. He was "can't miss" in my book.
- On-field I put Winston at #2 and his off-field issues had diminished enough for him to stay there.
- Then I put Goff...
- Bradford drops due to injury history in college.
- Newton drops due to off-field primarily, but also heavy reliance on his run skills.
- RG drops due to run reliance and size/ build adding up to high injury potential.
- Bortles drops due to being far more raw.
- Mariota drops due to serious scheme vs. talent questions.
And Mr Bilgewater? Mr Carr?<p>
It is early, and yes, things may still change. But it is not silly, if you have watched tape on him... and I have.
As to your list...
- Luck is the clear number one. He was "can't miss" in my book.
- On-field I put Winston at #2 and his off-field issues had diminished enough for him to stay there.
- Then I put Goff...
- Bradford drops due to injury history in college.
- Newton drops due to off-field primarily, but also heavy reliance on his run skills.
- RG drops due to run reliance and size/ build adding up to high injury potential.
- Bortles drops due to being far more raw.
- Mariota drops due to serious scheme vs. talent questions.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
And Mr Bilgewater? Mr Carr?<p>
It is early, and yes, things may still change. But it is not silly, if you have watched tape on him... and I have.
As to your list...
- Luck is the clear number one. He was "can't miss" in my book.
- On-field I put Winston at #2 and his off-field issues had diminished enough for him to stay there.
- Then I put Goff...
- Bradford drops due to injury history in college.
- Newton drops due to off-field primarily, but also heavy reliance on his run skills.
- RG drops due to run reliance and size/ build adding up to high injury potential.
- Bortles drops due to being far more raw.
- Mariota drops due to serious scheme vs. talent questions.
WSS
And Mr Bilgewater? Mr Carr?
WSS
Bridgewater fell for skinny frame, lack of velocity, deep ball trouble, and system issues (The system he played in was basically entirely short throws - nothing down field).
Carr fell for lacking ideal height, more raw foot work (throwing off back foot sometimes and floating balls), and system issues (short throws and only reading half of the field)
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JFF (Jared Fuckin' Football) has questions about his skinny frame and system (shotgun/spread system). I think it's safe to disregard any concerns regarding the system though, given that he still reads the entire field, changes plays at the LOS, and has such good footwork that adopting to play under center won't be that much of a problem. I've also seen questions on his deep ball, but I haven't observed any significant issues there. He seems to get the ball on target no matter what part of the field he's throwing to - with the right amount of zip.
So #2/#3 on that list seems right to me. I didn't like Winston because he came across as a total moron - but seems like that may only be when he's off the field.
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Fuck it, sign RG3.
Let's have fun.
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Anyone who watched even a slight amount of the Memphis-Auburn bowl game can't possibly want that guy as our QB.. all he did was throw horizontally. We can keep Austin Davis for 1/4th the price if all you really want to do is throw checkdowns and bubble screens and constraint plays. I wish I was joking - Memphis didn't throw beyond the LOS until the 7-minute mark of the second quarter.
FYI constraint plays keep the defense honest by throwing to a WR from one of your interior-run formations so the D doesn't put more than 7 in the box
Yes, we have other needs than QB, but because we're cutting/trading Johnny The Living Joke, QB will be the pick.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
And Mr Bilgewater? Mr Carr?<p>
It is early, and yes, things may still change. But it is not silly, if you have watched tape on him... and I have.
As to your list...
- Luck is the clear number one. He was "can't miss" in my book.
- On-field I put Winston at #2 and his off-field issues had diminished enough for him to stay there.
- Then I put Goff...
- Bradford drops due to injury history in college.
- Newton drops due to off-field primarily, but also heavy reliance on his run skills.
- RG drops due to run reliance and size/ build adding up to high injury potential.
- Bortles drops due to being far more raw.
- Mariota drops due to serious scheme vs. talent questions.
WSS
And Mr Bilgewater? Mr Carr?
Pretty much what bb said above plus:
- Teddy B: I did not see leadership qualities. Likely is listed above Bradford only.
- Derek
I did let the bloodline thing influence me. Probably lists just above Teddy B. -
The Rams would take Goff and so would the 49ers. The Rams have nobody! And Chip Kelly will most probably trade Kaepernick or move up in the draft. The Cowboys will take a QB if they're smart. Romo is old and banged up.
Let's face it; we need a QB, we have the 2nd pick. And even though experts say this QB class needs to sit and learn, what choice do we have?
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Anyone who watched even a slight amount of the Memphis-Auburn bowl game can't possibly want that guy as our QB.. all he did was throw horizontally. We can keep Austin Davis for 1/4th the price if all you really want to do is throw checkdowns and bubble screens and constraint plays. I wish I was joking - Memphis didn't throw beyond the LOS until the 7-minute mark of the second quarter.
FYI constraint plays keep the defense honest by throwing to a WR from one of your interior-run formations so the D doesn't put more than 7 in the box
Yes, we have other needs than QB, but because we're cutting/trading Johnny The Living Joke, QB will be the pick.
Anyone who watched even a slight amount of the Memphis-Auburn bowl game can't possibly want that guy as our QB.. all he did was throw horizontally. We can keep Austin Davis for 1/4th the price if all you really want to do is throw checkdowns and bubble screens and constraint plays. I wish I was joking - Memphis didn't throw beyond the LOS until the 7-minute mark of the second quarter.
FYI constraint plays keep the defense honest by throwing to a WR from one of your interior-run formations so the D doesn't put more than 7 in the box
Yes, we have other needs than QB, but because we're cutting/trading Johnny The Living Joke, QB will be the pick.
Alleluia! I watched the whole game! He's horrible. He also played lesser talent and didn't get noticed until mid year! If Cardale Jones had come out after winning the National Title he would have been drafted higher.
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And Mr Bilgewater? Mr Carr?
WSS
Bridgewater fell for skinny frame, lack of velocity, deep ball trouble, and system issues (The system he played in was basically entirely short throws - nothing down field).
Carr fell for lacking ideal height, more raw foot work (throwing off back foot sometimes and floating balls), and system issues (short throws and only reading half of the field)
---
JFF (Jared Fuckin' Football) has questions about his skinny frame and system (shotgun/spread system). I think it's safe to disregard any concerns regarding the system though, given that he still reads the entire field, changes plays at the LOS, and has such good footwork that adopting to play under center won't be that much of a problem. I've also seen questions on his deep ball, but I haven't observed any significant issues there. He seems to get the ball on target no matter what part of the field he's throwing to - with the right amount of zip.
So #2/#3 on that list seems right to me. I didn't like Winston because he came across as a total moron - but seems like that may only be when he's off the field.
Bridgewater fell for skinny frame, lack of velocity, deep ball trouble, and system issues (The system he played in was basically entirely short throws - nothing down field).
Carr fell for lacking ideal height, more raw foot work (throwing off back foot sometimes and floating balls), and system issues (short throws and only reading half of the field)
---
JFF (Jared Fuckin' Football) has questions about his skinny frame and system (shotgun/spread system). I think it's safe to disregard any concerns regarding the system though, given that he still reads the entire field, changes plays at the LOS, and has such good footwork that adopting to play under center won't be that much of a problem. I've also seen questions on his deep ball, but I haven't observed any significant issues there. He seems to get the ball on target no matter what part of the field he's throwing to - with the right amount of zip.
So #2/#3 on that list seems right to me. I didn't like Winston because he came across as a total moron - but seems like that may only be when he's off the field.
Here's the initial NFL scouting report on Goff. You pretty much nailed it BB. Only issue with Goff is lack of a Rothisberger\Newton frame. Hell, Brady is only 10 pounds heavier. Super high character guy- you're not going to see him hanging out in bars, or with Bee-ber. Their comparison? Matty Ice. OK, I'll say Sam Bradford. But I don't think he has the injury dossier of Sam.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jared-goff?id=2555334
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Bridgewater fell for skinny frame, lack of velocity, deep ball trouble, and system issues (The system he played in was basically entirely short throws - nothing down field).
Carr fell for lacking ideal height, more raw foot work (throwing off back foot sometimes and floating balls), and system issues (short throws and only reading half of the field)
---
JFF (Jared Fuckin' Football) has questions about his skinny frame and system (shotgun/spread system). I think it's safe to disregard any concerns regarding the system though, given that he still reads the entire field, changes plays at the LOS, and has such good footwork that adopting to play under center won't be that much of a problem. I've also seen questions on his deep ball, but I haven't observed any significant issues there. He seems to get the ball on target no matter what part of the field he's throwing to - with the right amount of zip.
So #2/#3 on that list seems right to me. I didn't like Winston because he came across as a total moron - but seems like that may only be when he's off the field.
Here's the initial NFL scouting report on Goff. You pretty much nailed it BB. Only issue with Goff is lack of a Rothisberger\Newton frame. Hell, Brady is only 10 pounds heavier. Super high character guy- you're not going to see him hanging out in bars, or with Bee-ber. Their comparison? Matty Ice. OK, I'll say Sam Bradford. But I don't think he has the injury dossier of Sam.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jared-goff?id=2555334
Here's the initial NFL scouting report on Goff. You pretty much nailed it BB. Only issue with Goff is lack of a Rothisberger\Newton frame. Hell, Brady is only 10 pounds heavier. Super high character guy- you're not going to see him hanging out in bars, or with Bee-ber. Their comparison? Matty Ice. OK, I'll say Sam Bradford. But I don't think he has the injury dossier of Sam.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jared-goff?id=2555334
FWIW, Goff's grade is higher than every quarterback taken over the last two years.
However, I'm still much more on the Carson Wentz train. He absolutely screams "franchise quarterback" to me, his skill set is that of an AFC North quarterback, he could benefit from learning from Hue Jackson, and we won't have to spend a #2 on him. We could ride the train with McCown and let Wentz come along this year.
He's the Bortles we never got a chance to get, or the Roethlisberger we fucked up getting.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Here's the initial NFL scouting report on Goff. You pretty much nailed it BB. Only issue with Goff is lack of a Rothisberger\Newton frame. Hell, Brady is only 10 pounds heavier. Super high character guy- you're not going to see him hanging out in bars, or with Bee-ber. Their comparison? Matty Ice. OK, I'll say Sam Bradford. But I don't think he has the injury dossier of Sam.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jared-goff?id=2555334
FWIW, Goff's grade is higher than every quarterback taken over the last two years.
However, I'm still much more on the Carson Wentz train. He absolutely screams "franchise quarterback" to me, his skill set is that of an AFC North quarterback, he could benefit from learning from Hue Jackson, and we won't have to spend a #2 on him. We could ride the train with McCown and let Wentz come along this year.
He's the Bortles we never got a chance to get, or the Roethlisberger we fucked up getting.
FWIW, Goff's grade is higher than every quarterback taken over the last two years.
Called it
On Wentz, I think he'll be gone by #15. Can't see him falling to 32 unless he absolutely blows at the senior bowl, combine, etc.
So we'd have to trade down or trade pretty far up, as it stands I'd rather take the best prospect (Goff)
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Here's the initial NFL scouting report on Goff. You pretty much nailed it BB. Only issue with Goff is lack of a Rothisberger\Newton frame. Hell, Brady is only 10 pounds heavier. Super high character guy- you're not going to see him hanging out in bars, or with Bee-ber. Their comparison? Matty Ice. OK, I'll say Sam Bradford. But I don't think he has the injury dossier of Sam.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jared-goff?id=2555334
FWIW, Goff's grade is higher than every quarterback taken over the last two years.
However, I'm still much more on the Carson Wentz train. He absolutely screams "franchise quarterback" to me, his skill set is that of an AFC North quarterback, he could benefit from learning from Hue Jackson, and we won't have to spend a #2 on him. We could ride the train with McCown and let Wentz come along this year.
He's the Bortles we never got a chance to get, or the Roethlisberger we fucked up getting.
FWIW, Goff's grade is higher than every quarterback taken over the last two years.
However, I'm still much more on the Carson Wentz train. He absolutely screams "franchise quarterback" to me, his skill set is that of an AFC North quarterback, he could benefit from learning from Hue Jackson, and we won't have to spend a #2 on him. We could ride the train with McCown and let Wentz come along this year.
He's the Bortles we never got a chance to get, or the Roethlisberger we fucked up getting.
Just my 0.02 TC- MHO is Wentz will fall for the same reason Flacco did- small school, competition level. He'd have to blow everyone away at the Senior Bowl, combine and workouts. We'd have to take him high though, because he sure won't be there @ #32. A really risky proposition. The cost of jumping back ahead of the Rams would be prohibitive. We're supposed to be using all those advanced analytics, and building through the draft. Trading away picks doesn't sound like what the Browns are going to do.
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FWIW, Goff's grade is higher than every quarterback taken over the last two years.
Called it
On Wentz, I think he'll be gone by #15. Can't see him falling to 32 unless he absolutely blows at the senior bowl, combine, etc.
So we'd have to trade down or trade pretty far up, as it stands I'd rather take the best prospect (Goff)
Unless the metrics say that's what we should do...
On Wentz, I think he'll be gone by #15. Can't see him falling to 32 unless he absolutely blows at the senior bowl, combine, etc.
Wentz could be the key. If he rises without displacing either of the top two prospects, then he starts compressing the top prospects and drives the top prospect even higher.
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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft
Interesting article, has wentz ranked higher than Goff.
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FWIW, Goff's grade is higher than every quarterback taken over the last two years.
However, I'm still much more on the Carson Wentz train. He absolutely screams "franchise quarterback" to me, his skill set is that of an AFC North quarterback, he could benefit from learning from Hue Jackson, and we won't have to spend a #2 on him. We could ride the train with McCown and let Wentz come along this year.
He's the Bortles we never got a chance to get, or the Roethlisberger we fucked up getting.
Just my 0.02 TC- MHO is Wentz will fall for the same reason Flacco did- small school, competition level. He'd have to blow everyone away at the Senior Bowl, combine and workouts. We'd have to take him high though, because he sure won't be there @ #32. A really risky proposition. The cost of jumping back ahead of the Rams would be prohibitive. We're supposed to be using all those advanced analytics, and building through the draft. Trading away picks doesn't sound like what the Browns are going to do.
Just my 0.02 TC- MHO is Wentz will fall for the same reason Flacco did- small school, competition level. He'd have to blow everyone away at the Senior Bowl, combine and workouts. We'd have to take him high though, because he sure won't be there @ #32. A really risky proposition. The cost of jumping back ahead of the Rams would be prohibitive. We're supposed to be using all those advanced analytics, and building through the draft. Trading away picks doesn't sound like what the Browns are going to do.
I would actually advocate trading back, if we could find the right partner. I believe the analytics would actually point to that.
If Bosa is available at #2, I'm sure we'd get more than a few offers to move back. If we could move back with, say, Philadelphia...then I would take it.
Only problem is that Philly doesn't have a second this year, which is something I would want in return (along with next year's first, of course).
Carson Wentz, no matter what.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft
Interesting article, has wentz ranked higher than Goff.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft
Interesting article, has wentz ranked higher than Goff.
LOL, and Matt Millen loves him The kiss of death.
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Just my 0.02 TC- MHO is Wentz will fall for the same reason Flacco did- small school, competition level. He'd have to blow everyone away at the Senior Bowl, combine and workouts. We'd have to take him high though, because he sure won't be there @ #32. A really risky proposition. The cost of jumping back ahead of the Rams would be prohibitive. We're supposed to be using all those advanced analytics, and building through the draft. Trading away picks doesn't sound like what the Browns are going to do.
I would actually advocate trading back, if we could find the right partner. I believe the analytics would actually point to that.
If Bosa is available at #2, I'm sure we'd get more than a few offers to move back. If we could move back with, say, Philadelphia...then I would take it.
Only problem is that Philly doesn't have a second this year, which is something I would want in return (along with next year's first, of course).
Carson Wentz, no matter what.
I would actually advocate trading back, if we could find the right partner. I believe the analytics would actually point to that.
If Bosa is available at #2, I'm sure we'd get more than a few offers to move back. If we could move back with, say, Philadelphia...then I would take it.
Only problem is that Philly doesn't have a second this year, which is something I would want in return (along with next year's first, of course).
Carson Wentz, no matter what.
We trade too far back the natives will riot. We've been burned too damn many times following that strategy. It's early, but right now I'm 100% against trading back this year. Trading back cost us Julio Jones and Kalil Mack for starters.
Qb or Bosa @ #2.
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