Which Qb Goes Where?
-
The first fallacy of this entire thread is the statement: "There are three potential franchise QBs that may be available in this draft".
Most honest pundits say that the best of these QBs is second round talent...
Now we're down to "honest" pundits... Pretty sure we know how honest is defined here...
Still waiting on links to any three pundits... honest or not...
I think he will. He'll interview well, he'll probably be near perfect in his combine throwing, he'll have an average 40 time.
Ryan Tannehill is Miami right now, for some reason. Despite his garbage performances, they keep him. He's on his third head coach and third GM, yet he's still there.
What is average for QBs? Goff should clock around 4.8... actually looks a little faster on tape to my eye.
Tannehill has shown flashes of getting it. Just enough to keep the Fins interested. Whether or not he is ultimately shown to be full-blown Fools' Gold is still TBD. Such is the issue when you reach so far for a promising QB with a thin resume.
Now we're down to "honest" pundits... Pretty sure we know how honest is defined here...
Still waiting on links to any three pundits... honest or not...
What is average for QBs? Goff should clock around 4.8... actually looks a little faster on tape to my eye.
Tannehill has shown flashes of getting it. Just enough to keep the Fins interested. Whether or not he is ultimately shown to be full-blown Fools' Gold is still TBD. Such is the issue when you reach so far for a promising QB with a thin resume.
I'd clock Goff around mid 4.7's at his best.
Some 40 yard times to keep in mind:
Aaron Rodgers - 4.71
Johnny Manziel - 4.68
Andrew Luck - 4.65
Cam Newton - 4.58
Marcus Mariota - 4.52
If I had to guess, I'd throw the Big 3 this year in here like this:
Paxton Lynch - 4. 81
Carson Wentz - 4.75
Jared Goff- 4.74
Aaron Rodgers - 4.71
Johnny Manziel - 4.68
Andrew Luck - 4.65
Cam Newton - 4.58
Marcus Mariota - 4.52
But I would say that, of the three, Lynch is probably the biggest threat with his legs - he has a Cam Newton-esque elusiveness and stride, coupled with his long frame.
-
@hoorta said:
Here ya go argumentative one- every freaking mock draft out there. http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.php
Kiper is a ESPN talking head that's right around 50% of the time. He's changed his tune in the last couple months. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:14569169
FWIW, If guys like Polian or Kiper were so great at evaluating talent, they'd be working in an NFL scouting department.
It's early- the draft is still months away, and some of the stuff you posted is contrarian garbage, just to get hits.
I think Polian is pretty good and could probably still be working in the NFL, but to call him some QB guru is completely misleading. Many of his drafts were butt, but he drafted Peyton Manning and Jim Kelly - not hard decisions by any means, but still good ones regardless.
-
http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2015/12/02/football-espns-todd-mcshay-says-jared-goff-stay/
Here even Kiper and McShay back off these guys.
http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2015/12/02/football-espns-todd-mcshay-says-jared-goff-stay/
Here even Kiper and McShay back off these guys.
Here ya go argumentative one- every freaking mock draft out there. http://walterfootbal...m/draftdata.php
Kiper is a ESPN talking head that's right around 50% of the time. He's changed his tune in the last couple months. http://espn.go.com/v...d=espn:14569169
FWIW, If guys like Polian or Kiper were so great at evaluating talent, they'd be working in an NFL scouting department.
It's early- the draft is still months away, and some of the stuff you posted is contrarian garbage, just to get hits. Prospects, especially top prospects get picked apart pre-draft.
-
http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2015/12/02/football-espns-todd-mcshay-says-jared-goff-stay/
Here even Kiper and McShay back off these guys.
From your first link:
"Now let’s switch over to Mr. Jared Goff. We can start with Todd McShay’s and Mel Kiper’s projection for him since we just talked about them with Paxton’s overall rating. Well, Goff is rated even LOWER than Paxton Lynch on both analysts’ draft boards. Goff is rated as the tenth best player on Kiper’s board while he is all the way down at fifteenth on McShay’s. "
From Link #2 which is an article about Lynch, not Goff:
"Lynch appears to lack some of the polish I'm seeing with Goff, for example, but draft decisions aren't made based on how a player is performing right now. They are made based on the long-term projection of ceiling vs. floor."
In Link #3 at its core McShay really argues that both Goff and Lynch would benefit from another year of development. I agree... and Goff can do that in Berea behind McCown until he is ready. Kiper on the other hand says no such thing.
From your first link:
"Now let’s switch over to Mr. Jared Goff. We can start with Todd McShay’s and Mel Kiper’s projection for him since we just talked about them with Paxton’s overall rating. Well, Goff is rated even LOWER than Paxton Lynch on both analysts’ draft boards. Goff is rated as the tenth best player on Kiper’s board while he is all the way down at fifteenth on McShay’s. "
From Link #2 which is an article about Lynch, not Goff:
"Lynch appears to lack some of the polish I'm seeing with Goff, for example, but draft decisions aren't made based on how a player is performing right now. They are made based on the long-term projection of ceiling vs. floor."
In Link #3 at its core McShay really argues that both Goff and Lynch would benefit from another year of development. I agree... and Goff can do that in Berea behind McCown until he is ready. Kiper on the other hand says no such thing.
If we do end up taking Goff #2, he sure as hell won't sit a year. If you are drafted #2 overall, you play....period.
-
http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2015/12/02/football-espns-todd-mcshay-says-jared-goff-stay/
Here even Kiper and McShay back off these guys.
Here ya go argumentative one- every freaking mock draft out there. http://walterfootbal...m/draftdata.php
Kiper is a ESPN talking head that's right around 50% of the time. He's changed his tune in the last couple months. http://espn.go.com/v...d=espn:14569169
FWIW, If guys like Polian or Kiper were so great at evaluating talent, they'd be working in an NFL scouting department.
It's early- the draft is still months away, and some of the stuff you posted is contrarian garbage, just to get hits. Prospects, especially top prospects get picked apart pre-draft.
Here ya go argumentative one- every freaking mock draft out there. http://walterfootbal...m/draftdata.php
Kiper is a ESPN talking head that's right around 50% of the time. He's changed his tune in the last couple months. http://espn.go.com/v...d=espn:14569169
FWIW, If guys like Polian or Kiper were so great at evaluating talent, they'd be working in an NFL scouting department.
It's early- the draft is still months away, and some of the stuff you posted is contrarian garbage, just to get hits. Prospects, especially top prospects get picked apart pre-draft.
Eh, it's not perfect, but it will do. These are mostly just random Joe Blow mocks, not any real mocks affiliated with any of the big analysts. But it at least shows a trend.
There are 120 mocks listed on that website. 59 from 2015, 61 from 2016 so far. Goff is listed 60 times in that entire list - with 40 of those listings in mocks done this year. That means 40 of 61 mocks in 2016 have Goff as a top-five pick. Further, of the 21 mocks that don't have Goff in the top-five, 14 of them have Paxton Lynch instead.
That means there are only seven mock drafts of 2016 so far that don't have a top-five QB at all. Only 11% of mock drafts since the end of the college football regular season don't have a top-five QB.
Forgive me, but it's hard to believe that a majority of analysts figure these guys to be second-round prospects when an overwhelming majority of mock drafts are saying the opposite.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2015/12/02/football-espns-todd-mcshay-says-jared-goff-stay/
Here even Kiper and McShay back off these guys.
Here ya go argumentative one- every freaking mock draft out there. http://walterfootbal...m/draftdata.php
Kiper is a ESPN talking head that's right around 50% of the time. He's changed his tune in the last couple months. http://espn.go.com/v...d=espn:14569169
FWIW, If guys like Polian or Kiper were so great at evaluating talent, they'd be working in an NFL scouting department.
It's early- the draft is still months away, and some of the stuff you posted is contrarian garbage, just to get hits. Prospects, especially top prospects get picked apart pre-draft.
Here ya go argumentative one- every freaking mock draft out there. http://walterfootbal...m/draftdata.php
Kiper is a ESPN talking head that's right around 50% of the time. He's changed his tune in the last couple months. http://espn.go.com/v...d=espn:14569169
FWIW, If guys like Polian or Kiper were so great at evaluating talent, they'd be working in an NFL scouting department.
It's early- the draft is still months away, and some of the stuff you posted is contrarian garbage, just to get hits. Prospects, especially top prospects get picked apart pre-draft.
The point is, the first impressions of these guys were: "average". Now that it is draft time the QBs are getting ranked higher.
I mean, Brandon Weeden was ranked a 2=3....but he became a 1st rounder. Happens all the time.
-
Here ya go argumentative one- every freaking mock draft out there. http://walterfootbal...m/draftdata.php
Kiper is a ESPN talking head that's right around 50% of the time. He's changed his tune in the last couple months. http://espn.go.com/v...d=espn:14569169
FWIW, If guys like Polian or Kiper were so great at evaluating talent, they'd be working in an NFL scouting department.
It's early- the draft is still months away, and some of the stuff you posted is contrarian garbage, just to get hits. Prospects, especially top prospects get picked apart pre-draft.
Eh, it's not perfect, but it will do. These are mostly just random Joe Blow mocks, not any real mocks affiliated with any of the big analysts. But it at least shows a trend.
There are 120 mocks listed on that website. 59 from 2015, 61 from 2016 so far. Goff is listed 60 times in that entire list - with 40 of those listings in mocks done this year. That means 40 of 61 mocks in 2016 have Goff as a top-five pick. Further, of the 21 mocks that don't have Goff in the top-five, 14 of them have Paxton Lynch instead.
That means there are only seven mock drafts of 2016 so far that don't have a top-five QB at all. Only 11% of mock drafts since the end of the college football regular season don't have a top-five QB.
Forgive me, but it's hard to believe that a majority of analysts figure these guys to be second-round prospects when an overwhelming majority of mock drafts are saying the opposite.
Eh, it's not perfect, but it will do. These are mostly just random Joe Blow mocks, not any real mocks affiliated with any of the big analysts. But it at least shows a trend.
There are 120 mocks listed on that website. 59 from 2015, 61 from 2016 so far. Goff is listed 60 times in that entire list - with 40 of those listings in mocks done this year. That means 40 of 61 mocks in 2016 have Goff as a top-five pick. Further, of the 21 mocks that don't have Goff in the top-five, 14 of them have Paxton Lynch instead.
That means there are only seven mock drafts of 2016 so far that don't have a top-five QB at all. Only 11% of mock drafts since the end of the college football regular season don't have a top-five QB.
Forgive me, but it's hard to believe that a majority of analysts figure these guys to be second-round prospects when an overwhelming majority of mock drafts are saying the opposite.
You also have to realize this about those mocks: They are NOT listing who they think the best potential prospects are....they are listing what they think each team should or would do:
They see the Browns as needing a QB. Sure, OK.....so they mock the Browns into taking a QB out of need.
They are NOT saying that Goff is the second best talent available in this draft....they are saying this is what they think the Browns should do......even if these QBs are Christian Ponder quality talent.
Hue Jackson said it right: If there is a guy that is quality enough to take at #2, then we might take him.....But if he is not good enough, then we have to pass.
-
Eh, it's not perfect, but it will do. These are mostly just random Joe Blow mocks, not any real mocks affiliated with any of the big analysts. But it at least shows a trend.
There are 120 mocks listed on that website. 59 from 2015, 61 from 2016 so far. Goff is listed 60 times in that entire list - with 40 of those listings in mocks done this year. That means 40 of 61 mocks in 2016 have Goff as a top-five pick. Further, of the 21 mocks that don't have Goff in the top-five, 14 of them have Paxton Lynch instead.
That means there are only seven mock drafts of 2016 so far that don't have a top-five QB at all. Only 11% of mock drafts since the end of the college football regular season don't have a top-five QB.
Forgive me, but it's hard to believe that a majority of analysts figure these guys to be second-round prospects when an overwhelming majority of mock drafts are saying the opposite.
You also have to realize this about those mocks: They are NOT listing who they think the best potential prospects are....they are listing what they think each team should or would do:
They see the Browns as needing a QB. Sure, OK.....so they mock the Browns into taking a QB out of need.
They are NOT saying that Goff is the second best talent available in this draft....they are saying this is what they think the Browns should do......even if these QBs are Christian Ponder quality talent.
Hue Jackson said it right: If there is a guy that is quality enough to take at #2, then we might take him.....But if he is not good enough, then we have to pass.
You also have to realize this about those mocks: They are NOT listing who they think the best potential prospects are....they are listing what they think each team should or would do:
They see the Browns as needing a QB. Sure, OK.....so they mock the Browns into taking a QB out of need.
They are NOT saying that Goff is the second best talent available in this draft....they are saying this is what they think the Browns should do......even if these QBs are Christian Ponder quality talent.
Hue Jackson said it right: If there is a guy that is quality enough to take at #2, then we might take him.....But if he is not good enough, then we have to pass.
See, that's funny...because I seem to recall Hue Jackson saying this:
"If there is a QB at #2 that is a best fit for our team, we need to go get him. It's my opinion we need a QB."
Misremembering information on accident is one thing, but changing quotes? C'mon Gip.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
From your first link:
"Now let’s switch over to Mr. Jared Goff. We can start with Todd McShay’s and Mel Kiper’s projection for him since we just talked about them with Paxton’s overall rating. Well, Goff is rated even LOWER than Paxton Lynch on both analysts’ draft boards. Goff is rated as the tenth best player on Kiper’s board while he is all the way down at fifteenth on McShay’s. "
From Link #2 which is an article about Lynch, not Goff:
"Lynch appears to lack some of the polish I'm seeing with Goff, for example, but draft decisions aren't made based on how a player is performing right now. They are made based on the long-term projection of ceiling vs. floor."
In Link #3 at its core McShay really argues that both Goff and Lynch would benefit from another year of development. I agree... and Goff can do that in Berea behind McCown until he is ready. Kiper on the other hand says no such thing.
If we do end up taking Goff #2, he sure as hell won't sit a year. If you are drafted #2 overall, you play....period.
If we do end up taking Goff #2, he sure as hell won't sit a year. If you are drafted #2 overall, you play....period.
It all depends. I think he's the closest to NFL ready, but it's really a long term investment and whatever would be best is debatable. He'd definitely get a fair shake at the starting role in camp.
-
You also have to realize this about those mocks: They are NOT listing who they think the best potential prospects are....they are listing what they think each team should or would do:
They see the Browns as needing a QB. Sure, OK.....so they mock the Browns into taking a QB out of need.
They are NOT saying that Goff is the second best talent available in this draft....they are saying this is what they think the Browns should do......even if these QBs are Christian Ponder quality talent.
Hue Jackson said it right: If there is a guy that is quality enough to take at #2, then we might take him.....But if he is not good enough, then we have to pass.
See, that's funny...because I seem to recall Hue Jackson saying this:
"If there is a QB at #2 that is a best fit for our team, we need to go get him. It's my opinion we need a QB."
Misremembering information on accident is one thing, but changing quotes? C'mon Gip.
See, that's funny...because I seem to recall Hue Jackson saying this:
"If there is a QB at #2 that is a best fit for our team, we need to go get him. It's my opinion we need a QB."
Misremembering information on accident is one thing, but changing quotes? C'mon Gip.
See that is funny.....no where does he say that he will reach for a QB that isn't talented enough. He has given a dozen interviews, and the one I heard on WKNR.....he said essentially "yes, if a QB is good enough to take at #2 we will take him....but if not we won't.
Here is the exact quote:
If there’s a QB at pick No. 2 or pick No. 32 that we feel is the best option, the best fit for our team, we need to go get him,” Jackson said Sunday. “I’m sitting here today because John Harbaugh gave me an opportunity to draft and develop Joe Flacco.”
California’s Jared Goff, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch, Michigan State’s Connor Cook and North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz are among the top quarterback options. Jackson said he’ll spend a lot of time evaluating the quarterback class but won’t force the issue at the top of the draft if the player isn’t worthy.
“If he’s good enough, I am not against it,” Jackson said on WKNR 850-AM. “But if he’s not, then obviously we don’t want to take one just to take one
-
And, since we're on the subject:
Daniel Jeremiah, NFL.com - 1/19/16
Wentz - 7th best prospect
Goff - 8th best prospect
Lynch - 21st best prospect
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft
Lance Zierlien, NFL.com - 1/19/2016
Goff - 8th best prospect
Lynch - 15th best prospect
Wentz - 30th best prospect
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000625061/article/top-100-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft
CBSSports.com - 1/15/2016
Goff - 5th best prospect
Lynch - 12th best prospect
Wentz - 18th best prospect
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/all
Rob Rang, CBSSports - 1/13/2016
Goff - 6th best prospect
Paxton Lynch - 30th best prospect
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/big-board
Mel Kiper, ESPN - 12/26/15
Lynch - 7th best prospect
Goff - 10th best prospect
http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/top-10-players-mel-kipers-2016-nfl-draft-big-board-25259
DraftTek - 1/17/2016
Lynch - 1st best prospect
Goff - 8th best prospect
Wentz - 44th best prospect
http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2016.asp
NFLDraftGeek.com - 1/17/2016
Goff - 1st best prospect
Lynch - 19th best prospect
Wentz - 50th best prospect
(As an aside, they have Cardale Jones ahead of Wentz...so.....)
http://nfldraftgeek.com/2016nfldraftrankings.html
This took two minutes of searching. At the VERY best, you can say that MAYBE Wentz is getting second round consideration from some smaller publications.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
And when these guys turn out to be shit, like Ponder and Gabbert...which is what I see them as.....you will need to stick your head somewhere the sun don't shine.
Well I'm really only considering Goff as a sure thing at this point. Wentz/Lynch have some more questions surrounding them.
These QBs are being overvalued because they are QBs .....plain and simple.
Goff is valued higher than everybody who has come out since Luck by NFL.com anyway (I said it first, NFL.com just copied my opinion)
You know in your heart that is true....its just that you don't want it to be true because you are desperate for a franchise QB.
Nope - I've never been desperate. The desperation moves were drafting Manziel, Weeden, and Quinn. All 3 of which I was opposed to - which means I'm right 100% of the time (obviously).
We also haven't taken a QB in the top 20 since 1999, interesting note.
Again....I hope if the Browns take one you turn out to be right.
I will wager you a hot fudge sundae on the outcome.
I'm not really crazy about chocolate...or ice cream. But I'll get a pink Goff jersey and wear it to a game if I'm wrong. When I'm not wrong, a 6 pack would suffice
Nope - I've never been desperate. The desperation moves were drafting Manziel, Weeden, and Quinn. All 3 of which I was opposed to - which means I'm right 100% of the time (obviously).
lol... Did you mutter, "Oh, no...," all three times when the fact that we had traded up was announced?
Tour- Steve got riled when I posted as much. "It's a sin if we draft Quinn", Slapped my head when we took the clay pigeon bustin' Wee-done, and almost threw up when Johnny Money sign got called. I got a draft track record as good as those darn chickens. FWIW, I'm not 100% sold on Goff yet- but it's getting close.
And if you really want to throw up- take a look at who we could have had the year after we drafted Quinn with the first round pick we gave Dallas in 2008. Only about 11 Pro Bowlers, and a couple of guys who are still playing in the NFL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_draft
-
See, that's funny...because I seem to recall Hue Jackson saying this:
"If there is a QB at #2 that is a best fit for our team, we need to go get him. It's my opinion we need a QB."
Misremembering information on accident is one thing, but changing quotes? C'mon Gip.
See that is funny.....no where does he say that he will reach for a QB that isn't talented enough. He has given a dozen interviews, and the one I heard on WKNR.....he said essentially "yes, if a QB is good enough to take at #2 we will take him....but if not we won't.
Here is the exact quote:
If there’s a QB at pick No. 2 or pick No. 32 that we feel is the best option, the best fit for our team, we need to go get him,” Jackson said Sunday. “I’m sitting here today because John Harbaugh gave me an opportunity to draft and develop Joe Flacco.”
California’s Jared Goff, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch, Michigan State’s Connor Cook and North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz are among the top quarterback options. Jackson said he’ll spend a lot of time evaluating the quarterback class but won’t force the issue at the top of the draft if the player isn’t worthy.
“If he’s good enough, I am not against it,” Jackson said on WKNR 850-AM. “But if he’s not, then obviously we don’t want to take one just to take one
See that is funny.....no where does he say that he will reach for a QB that isn't talented enough. He has given a dozen interviews, and the one I heard on WKNR.....he said essentially "yes, if a QB is good enough to take at #2 we will take him....but if not we won't.
Here is the exact quote:
If there’s a QB at pick No. 2 or pick No. 32 that we feel is the best option, the best fit for our team, we need to go get him,” Jackson said Sunday. “I’m sitting here today because John Harbaugh gave me an opportunity to draft and develop Joe Flacco.”
California’s Jared Goff, Memphis’ Paxton Lynch, Michigan State’s Connor Cook and North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz are among the top quarterback options. Jackson said he’ll spend a lot of time evaluating the quarterback class but won’t force the issue at the top of the draft if the player isn’t worthy.
“If he’s good enough, I am not against it,” Jackson said on WKNR 850-AM. “But if he’s not, then obviously we don’t want to take one just to take one
Right, and you're basing your evaluation of "not talented enough" on fictional things that Bill Polian may or may not have said, while trying to back it up with nothing.
Fact is that you were wrong about your "evaluation" of these guys, that they aren't considered second round talent, and that we will more than likely be taking one in the draft. These are first round QB's who have higher grades than any of the last two draft class QB's.
This is yet another instance of Gipper shoving his foot in his mouth, then trying to argue his way out of it with nothing.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Nope - I've never been desperate. The desperation moves were drafting Manziel, Weeden, and Quinn. All 3 of which I was opposed to - which means I'm right 100% of the time (obviously).
lol... Did you mutter, "Oh, no...," all three times when the fact that we had traded up was announced?
Tour- Steve got riled when I posted as much. "It's a sin if we draft Quinn", Slapped my head when we took the clay pigeon bustin' Wee-done, and almost threw up when Johnny Money sign got called. I got a draft track record as good as those darn chickens. FWIW, I'm not 100% sold on Goff yet- but it's getting close.
And if you really want to throw up- take a look at who we could have had the year after we drafted Quinn with the first round pick we gave Dallas in 2008. Only about 11 Pro Bowlers, and a couple of guys who are still playing in the NFL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_draft
Tour- Steve got riled when I posted as much. "It's a sin if we draft Quinn", Slapped my head when we took the clay pigeon bustin' Wee-done, and almost threw up when Johnny Money sign got called. I got a draft track record as good as those darn chickens. FWIW, I'm not 100% sold on Goff yet- but it's getting close.
And if you really want to throw up- take a look at who we could have had the year after we drafted Quinn with the first round pick we gave Dallas in 2008. Only about 11 Pro Bowlers, and a couple of guys who are still playing in the NFL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_draft
2011 trade down left us with Phil Taylor, Weeden, and Greg Little
We could have had the likes of Julio Jones, JJ Watt, Robert Quinn....
-
All three of these qbs imo could definately go either way....could be blaine gabbert or could be very good. We won't know until....we know. Anyone who says they know how they will turn out(like we knew how peyton manning would be great or we knew how danny weurful would be terrible) is FOS. But regardless of what their grades from some sites are(and each side is cherry picking...the reality is with all three prospects opinions vary a good bit), I'm not seeing a ton of hype or buzz for these guys.....maybe thats because they aren't 'famous' and neither played at a big school....who knows. What a couple others said about teams being skittish to give up a lot because of the RG3 trade doesn't ring true though- if anything, teams are so desparate for a young franchise qb in the nfl today that they are more likely to make a godfather type offer for even the chance of getting that elusive young franchise qb. Thats how much that is valued in today's nfl. And if any of these three guys do develop a ton of buzz as being a likely franchise qb, then you can bet teams will want to move up into that 1 slot to get them....thats the way young qbs are valued in todays nfl. At other positions the "can't give up too much for one pick" rings true, but not for 22 year old qbs......
-
Let's say we draft Goff, and our talent boys think he's worthy of the #2 pick. Why would it be different THIS time?
I think a lot of things could potentially be different. For one, we have Josh McCown. I know, I know...he's not the second coming of Joe Montana, but how nice would it be to have a young QB that DOESN'T have the weight of the world on his shoulders during his first season? McCown appeared to put up with Manziel's crap, and by all accounts, really tried to help the kid. We all know how that worked out, but the point is McCown relishes the role of a "player coach", and seems to enjoy passing on his knowledge to the young guys. He frequently talks about his mentoring role, and I don't think I've ever heard one negative thing about Josh as a teammate. What I read about Goff is that he's a film room junkie and a stand up guy. There's a good chance Goff and McCown could hit it off, and Goff wouldn't be thrown out there with mediocre talent around him and down 20 points a game.
Now, McCown has shown the propensity of getting hurt just about every year. In fact, I don't think he's made it through a 16 game season without missing a few. So even if Josh wins the starting role again, there's a good chance we'll see Goff at some point. But let's say Josh DOES start all 16 games, and we don't need to play Goff just yet. Goff works hard, does his thing, and earns the starting spot in 2017. By that time, our new talent gurus have assembled a better team, and we have some weapons. It's plausible, right? Hope springs eternal. We need a bunch of things to go right, but isn't it about damn time they DID go right?
If McCown is our starting QB in 2016, I think it will be difficult to have our shiny new QB on the bench, but I think Browns fans will be totally cool with it. Not that coaches really care what the fans think, but I don't think you're going to hear a bunch of fans clamoring for Goff if we start out 1-5. Browns fans don't want to "ruin" another QB, and many fans that I know of seem to like McCown as a starter. He wasn't great last year, but it wasn't like he had a killer running game, dominant defense, or playmakers all over the field. I'm curious to see what McCown can do with Josh Gordon (as I'm sure many people are). Gary Barnidge, Travis Benjamin, Josh Gordon, WR Doctson in the second round...and all of the sudden, we have the beginnings of an offense.
-
lol... Did you mutter, "Oh, no...," all three times when the fact that we had traded up was announced?
Pretty much.
Quinn I never liked when he was at ND and thought we gave up way too much to move up.
Weeden I mean, who the hell is that old man getting drafted in the first round. This hurts especially because we had the opportunity to get the likes of JJ Watt, Von Miller, Julio Jones, and Patrick Pederson but instead we traded for F***ing Phil Taylor, Greg Little, and Brandon Weeden
And Manziel I never saw any NFL potential. Aside from not wanting the attention, he's a midget with a ton of problems (not surprisingly, he continued to see phantoms in the pocket, never step up in the pocket, and suck balls in the pocket in general at the NFL level. Not to mention the fact he never read the entire field in college and was surrounded with NFL caliber talent at A&M)
Of the 3, I had the highest hopes for Quinn - but they weren't that high.
I don't recall being high on any of the QBs in 2007. Ryan was my favorite in 2008 (and everybody's favorite), didn't really care about anybody in 09, 10' - I was fine with McCoy because it was only a 3rd rounder.
Basically I'm always right, and we need to get Goff to end the debacle once and for all.
Pretty much.
I took a graduated path... The announcement of each trade was a little different...
With Quinn languishing in the super-secret, Green Room it was "Oh no..."
With Wheezy playing with the propeller on his beanie, it was "Oh shit.."
With Johnny... Oh Fuck!
Someday we'll have to discuss which was the best pick of this lot.
If we do end up taking Goff #2, he sure as hell won't sit a year. If you are drafted #2 overall, you play....period.
Punctuation should be "question mark?"
True for every position except QB. The plan for nearly every QB taken since Luck and RG3 has been for them to sit, but you hope the new kid takes the job away from your veteran mentor.
-
And, since we're on the subject:
Daniel Jeremiah, NFL.com - 1/19/16
Wentz - 7th best prospect
Goff - 8th best prospect
Lynch - 21st best prospect
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000624732/article/ranking-top-50-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft
Lance Zierlien, NFL.com - 1/19/2016
Goff - 8th best prospect
Lynch - 15th best prospect
Wentz - 30th best prospect
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000625061/article/top-100-prospects-for-2016-nfl-draft
CBSSports.com - 1/15/2016
Goff - 5th best prospect
Lynch - 12th best prospect
Wentz - 18th best prospect
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/all
Rob Rang, CBSSports - 1/13/2016
Goff - 6th best prospect
Paxton Lynch - 30th best prospect
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/big-board
Mel Kiper, ESPN - 12/26/15
Lynch - 7th best prospect
Goff - 10th best prospect
http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/top-10-players-mel-kipers-2016-nfl-draft-big-board-25259
DraftTek - 1/17/2016
Lynch - 1st best prospect
Goff - 8th best prospect
Wentz - 44th best prospect
http://www.drafttek.com/Top-100-NFL-Draft-Prospects-2016.asp
NFLDraftGeek.com - 1/17/2016
Goff - 1st best prospect
Lynch - 19th best prospect
Wentz - 50th best prospect
(As an aside, they have Cardale Jones ahead of Wentz...so.....)
http://nfldraftgeek.com/2016nfldraftrankings.html
This took two minutes of searching. At the VERY best, you can say that MAYBE Wentz is getting second round consideration from some smaller publications.
And, since we're on the subject:
What's odd is Kiper ranks Lynch higher, but his Mock has us taking Goff.
Covering his bets?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Browns draft Kevin Hogan in the 3rd round
-
And, since we're on the subject:
What's odd is Kiper ranks Lynch higher, but his Mock has us taking Goff.
Covering his bets?
What's odd is Kiper ranks Lynch higher, but his Mock has us taking Goff.
Covering his bets?
That was also from around Christmas, his thoughts may have changed recently. I don't have access to his most recent big board but I assume it can't be drastically different.
I actually like all three of these quarterbacks for different reasons. Goff is the safest bet, but Lynch has intriguing upside and Wentz is like the perfect mix between the two.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login