Dansby On "suffocating" Atmosphere Of Browns
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I think you're misunderstanding the 'suits' there and the situation in general.
Pettine was fighting with Farmer, presumably, and possibly others. There wasn't unity in the front office between talent evaluator and coach, and that's the role Sashi Brown now plays - get the two guys on the same page, if they're not both on board with a guy, don't bother (Bowe).
The remainder of the front office, I assume you mean the college/pro scouts etc. stay in place because it's too close to the draft, the college season is already over, if you fire them you basically lose all of your info on this draft class.
The 'analytics' part of it is based around where can good talent be found and for what value? Sure you can probably get a good running back like Elliott if you use a very high pick on him, but you can almost as easily find a similar guy in later rounds - maybe he doesn't everything as well as Elliott but maybe you don't need him to, so you pick Alfred Morris in round 6.
But a great pass rusher or QB is a lot harder to find outside of the top 40 picks. We can name who those guys are because they're the exception - Brady, Wilson, both had question marks coming in to the league but have turned out great. Otherwise, the QB at the top of each depth chart have largely come from the first round or early second. Carr, Bridgewater, Winston, Mariota, Flacco, Dalton, Big Ben, Newton, Luck, Manning, Manning, Rodgers, Palmer, Bortles, Smith, Rivers, Ryan are all guys we'd take in a straight up swap for McCown. Then you have other guys who are mostly 'meh' but still at least as good as McCown in the right system - Stafford, Bradford, Cutler, Kaepernick.
Point is, you're more likely to be able to find solid contributors/great players in later rounds, or cheap free agency, at some positions than others. Wide Receiver is another. Sure, you could get Julio Jones or ODB. But you could equally get Antonio Brown in the sixth. Tight ends is another. Barnidge, Jordan Reed, Travis Kelce are at least on the same level as Eifert and Graham. Gronk is an anomaly and of course if the Patriots had known he was going to be that good they wouldn't have waited and given others the chance to draft him.
In the first round you can get Patrick Peterson, Darrelle Revis or Joe Haden (lol), or you could get Josh Norman or Richard Sherman on day 3.
That's what the analytics will bring, among other things, not "draft this guy now, he's unbeatable, and I don't care that we already have 5 centers on the team"
no i agree with what you are saying. i was using the RB as an example of another suit being in the room....depalto himself. so now you have added 2 more suits in sashi and he and this will make things better? (just asking......and let preface this by saying I HOPE SO!)
my problem is last year we heard about the weekend retreat taken with the owner GM and coach and haslam came out of it with a presser saying "everything is great. we're all on the same page. i pledge my loyalty to this group! etc. etc." and everyone was fired after the year.
so you think sashi is the buffer between the HC and GM? and if so when has he ever proven himself on any level to be that guy? and if let's say jackson perceives sashi as being pro GM in his decisions when does HE get frustrated and the whole bullshit that pettine dealt with last year just doesn't happen all over again?
just because there are more people in the room doesn't mean the right decision is going to be made is my point.
hey i hated the pettine fire, but i didn't know the level of dysfunction between the coaches and the FO then. all i know is that this revolving door of coaches and GMs coming in and being shown the door in 1-2 years has to stop or the problems in cleveland are never going to change.
i'm starting to think that haslam doesn't know biz from a hole in the ground because if he did he would have hired a sashi last year interim during the season and had another retreat in which he threatened EVERYONE with their job, then and there.
no i agree with what you are saying. i was using the RB as an example of another suit being in the room....depalto himself. so now you have added 2 more suits in sashi and he and this will make things better? (just asking......and let preface this by saying I HOPE SO!)
Yes I think so. I'm not sure what you have against people who dress well
Basically every report on Sashi Brown from everyone everywhere ever says that by far his best attribute is his ability to bring people from different sides together and agree on a consensus. That is exactly what was needed in the browns last year - maybe Hue and our new scoutmaster general are in perfect harmony and Sashi is not needed, but it's Jimmy's way of putting a safety buffer in place.my problem is last year we heard about the weekend retreat taken with the owner GM and coach and haslam came out of it with a presser saying "everything is great. we're all on the same page. i pledge my loyalty to this group! etc. etc." and everyone was fired after the year.
so you think sashi is the buffer between the HC and GM? and if so when has he ever proven himself on any level to be that guy? and if let's say jackson perceives sashi as being pro GM in his decisions when does HE get frustrated and the whole bullshit that pettine dealt with last year just doesn't happen all over again?
Hue, who also reports directly to Jimmy, goes to Jimmy and says 'my voice isn't being heard in the roster decisions' and there's a discussion about why that is. It's about moving on from the traditional ego-based arguments, like there were from Farmer/Pettine, and like you'd probably have with Holmgren, and a whole bunch of traditional NFL lifers, because they're brought up in such a macho, alpha male environment. Now we're moving to a setup where we have someone whose job it is to calm down those butting heads and get the emotion out of it.
just because there are more people in the room doesn't mean the right decision is going to be made is my point.
For sure. But it's not like we've got Ray Farmer and Mike Holmgren and Dan Snyder all trying to get on the same page. I'm optimistic.
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Basically, imagine you've got WalterWhite and PoeticG in the draft room, and one wants Johnny Manziel while the other wants Colt McCoy and both are not giving any ground. It's the job of the 'suit' to get them to agree, or go with the one making the best case.
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Chris :
"Otherwise, the QB at the top of each depth chart have largely come from the first round or early second. Carr, Bridgewater, Winston, Mariota, Flacco, Dalton, Big Ben, Newton, Luck, Manning, Manning, Rodgers, Palmer, Bortles, Smith, Rivers, Ryan are all guys we'd take in a straight up swap for McCown. Then you have other guys who are mostly 'meh' but still at least as good as McCown in the right system - Stafford, Bradford, Cutler, Kaepernick."
And then be totally shocked at another 4 and 12.
WSS
Why so angry Steve?
That sounded angry to you?Why so angry Steve?
You give me a laundry list of guys you want to trade Josh McCown for and I point out the fact that I don't think it would change things?
WSS
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That sounded angry to you?
You give me a laundry list of guys you want to trade Josh McCown for and I point out the fact that I don't think it would change things?
WSS
Just having fun with you - it's your go to response for me when I say something you don't like
I'm saying that that first list of guys, Rivers, Eli etc, you'd trade straight up for and not bat an eyelid. McCown for Rivers? Yes please. If you don't think it would change things I'd say you're a bit crazy. Any of those guys - call it most if you disagree with a few - would be an upgrade either next year or for the next five years over McCown.
The second list - Stafford, Bradford & Cutler - are basically 'meh' and you wouldn't necessarily trade straight up. You might think you can fit them in your system and exploit the strengths and mask the weaknesses, but you could do that with McCown also, or Hoyer or Cousins or Kaepernick.
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This seems more to me that the team captain's were stuck behind a guy in Pettine they could not get behind cause the cluster nest kept growing. Farmer & Haslem let Pet sink all by himself. Think Haslem got the right 2 guys out, but than Jimmy pointed the finger at himself.
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That sounded angry to you?
You give me a laundry list of guys you want to trade Josh McCown for and I point out the fact that I don't think it would change things?
WSS
Just having fun with you - it's your go to response for me when I say something you don't like
I'm saying that that first list of guys, Rivers, Eli etc, you'd trade straight up for and not bat an eyelid. McCown for Rivers? Yes please. If you don't think it would change things I'd say you're a bit crazy. Any of those guys - call it most if you disagree with a few - would be an upgrade either next year or for the next five years over McCown.
The second list - Stafford, Bradford & Cutler - are basically 'meh' and you wouldn't necessarily trade straight up. You might think you can fit them in your system and exploit the strengths and mask the weaknesses, but you could do that with McCown also, or Hoyer or Cousins or Kaepernick.
Just having fun with you - it's your go to response for me when I say something you don't like
I'm saying that that first list of guys, Rivers, Eli etc, you'd trade straight up for and not bat an eyelid. McCown for Rivers? Yes please. If you don't think it would change things I'd say you're a bit crazy. Any of those guys - call it most if you disagree with a few - would be an upgrade either next year or for the next five years over McCown.
The second list - Stafford, Bradford & Cutler - are basically 'meh' and you wouldn't necessarily trade straight up. You might think you can fit them in your system and exploit the strengths and mask the weaknesses, but you could do that with McCown also, or Hoyer or Cousins or Kaepernick.
Well, sorry. Just a well deserved defense of Josh McCown.
He's a guy that I believe was cheated by fate by being bounced all over the league shitty team after shitty team.
Had the cards played out differently during his career I think we might easily mention him among the top tier.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Oh, here:
WSS
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Just having fun with you - it's your go to response for me when I say something you don't like
I'm saying that that first list of guys, Rivers, Eli etc, you'd trade straight up for and not bat an eyelid. McCown for Rivers? Yes please. If you don't think it would change things I'd say you're a bit crazy. Any of those guys - call it most if you disagree with a few - would be an upgrade either next year or for the next five years over McCown.
The second list - Stafford, Bradford & Cutler - are basically 'meh' and you wouldn't necessarily trade straight up. You might think you can fit them in your system and exploit the strengths and mask the weaknesses, but you could do that with McCown also, or Hoyer or Cousins or Kaepernick.
Well, sorry. Just a well deserved defense of Josh McCown.
He's a guy that I believe was cheated by fate by being bounced all over the league shitty team after shitty team.
Had the cards played out differently during his career I think we might easily mention him among the top tier.
WSS
Well, sorry. Just a well deserved defense of Josh McCown.
He's a guy that I believe was cheated by fate by being bounced all over the league shitty team after shitty team.
Had the cards played out differently during his career I think we might easily mention him among the top tier.
WSS
Not sure about top tier, but he's serviceable. He has flaws and strengths, same as guys like bradford and whoever. He's a good leader, is mobile enough to pick up yards and tends to do the little things well. He struggles with holding on to the ball too long and taking hits/sacks, trying to get too much when scrambling and taking hits, accuracy sometimes and is 'ok' at reading defences. Some of those things he'd be better at if he'd played all thirteen years in the league - but his propensity to take hits probably precludes him from playing all thirteen years in the league.
For my money, he's a very serviceable guy that would mean a rookie QB (be it Goff or Lynch or Wentz or someone later on) wouldn't have to start immediately and we could easily, with the right coaching and schemes maximising talent be above .500 and at least playing relevant football in december, so I think we agree on that.
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I meant he should be top tier at this point in his career had he been drafted on a good team and stayed there.
Just like I feel many of those other guys would fail to flourish on bad teams.
WSS
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I meant he should be top tier at this point in his career had he been drafted on a good team and stayed there.
Just like I feel many of those other guys would fail to flourish on bad teams.
WSS
I meant he should be top tier at this point in his career had he been drafted on a good team and stayed there.
Just like I feel many of those other guys would fail to flourish on bad teams.
WSS
I've said that before, also, that someone like Andy Dalton - if he were on the browns, he would have been bounced in two years because he couldn't lift the team on his own. Maybe Joe Flacco the same. We've been bad at drafting QBs, for sure, I don't think anyone believe's Brandon Weeden would be leading the Bengals to the playoffs every year had he been drafted there, but we're also not great at having patience with a young QB. Like even Johnny six-starts.
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But all those people who said it was clear Pettine lost the locker room were crazy people right?
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I meant he should be top tier at this point in his career had he been drafted on a good team and stayed there.
Just like I feel many of those other guys would fail to flourish on bad teams.
WSS
I've said that before, also, that someone like Andy Dalton - if he were on the browns, he would have been bounced in two years because he couldn't lift the team on his own. Maybe Joe Flacco the same. We've been bad at drafting QBs, for sure, I don't think anyone believe's Brandon Weeden would be leading the Bengals to the playoffs every year had he been drafted there, but we're also not great at having patience with a young QB. Like even Johnny six-starts.
I've said that before, also, that someone like Andy Dalton - if he were on the browns, he would have been bounced in two years because he couldn't lift the team on his own. Maybe Joe Flacco the same. We've been bad at drafting QBs, for sure, I don't think anyone believe's Brandon Weeden would be leading the Bengals to the playoffs every year had he been drafted there, but we're also not great at having patience with a young QB. Like even Johnny six-starts.
Brandon Weeden was successful at least for the game he started with a playoff caliber team in Houston.
As much as the boys don't want to admit it they had more problems than just missing Tony Romo.
WSS
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I've said that before, also, that someone like Andy Dalton - if he were on the browns, he would have been bounced in two years because he couldn't lift the team on his own. Maybe Joe Flacco the same. We've been bad at drafting QBs, for sure, I don't think anyone believe's Brandon Weeden would be leading the Bengals to the playoffs every year had he been drafted there, but we're also not great at having patience with a young QB. Like even Johnny six-starts.
Brandon Weeden was successful at least for the game he started with a playoff caliber team in Houston.
As much as the boys don't want to admit it they had more problems than just missing Tony Romo.
WSS
Brandon Weeden was successful at least for the game he started with a playoff caliber team in Houston.
As much as the boys don't want to admit it they had more problems than just missing Tony Romo.
WSS
He didn't screw up, just about. Not sure you call that successful.
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Brandon Weeden was successful at least for the game he started with a playoff caliber team in Houston.
As much as the boys don't want to admit it they had more problems than just missing Tony Romo.
WSS
He didn't screw up, just about. Not sure you call that successful.
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The Qb to lead this team for the next 10+ yrs isn't on this team.... Yet.
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Let's just hope this time we don't screw it up.
SB 51 here we come.
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You talking to yourself, Chris?
Lol, just adding to my previous comment. Apparently quoted just myself...
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pettine fighting with who? farmer?
i mean he's the only FO person let go correct? everyone else is still there so how will it be any different for jackson?
don't get it. sounds to me like the problem starts at the top. haslam had no idea any of this was going on? and for dansby to come out now with this like it is some revelation is kinda weak in my opinion as well. so it's the suits against the grunts (coaches) and they hired a lot more suits.
jackson: "we could sure use a QB and MLB."
suits: "well statistics say that we pick RB in this situation."
jackson: "AAAaaarrrgggh!"
doesn't bode well for the grunts.
pettine fighting with who? farmer?
i mean he's the only FO person let go correct? everyone else is still there so how will it be any different for jackson?
don't get it. sounds to me like the problem starts at the top. haslam had no idea any of this was going on? and for dansby to come out now with this like it is some revelation is kinda weak in my opinion as well. so it's the suits against the grunts (coaches) and they hired a lot more suits.
I am sure Haslam was aware. It's why he had to make the changes. Once well in to the season, there was no real point in making a change then.
I am pretty sure it was all between Pettine and Farmer. Scheiner and Brown weren't acting in that type of role.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
if they just flipped a coin in the draft room, could their drafting have been any worse?
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