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Jonathan Paul Manziel

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  • U Unsympathetic

    @mike-h said:

    Apparently, you don't understand how progression works.

    Apparently you don't understand what progression is - or how it works.

    Progression refers to the ability [or, in JFF's case, absence] of a QB to look at each WR sequentially during a play to determine if they are open. This is done based on how the defender is positioned, the relative speed of the defender in relation to the speed of the WR, and film study to know each defender's closing speed [eg if the defender is "baiting"].

    @mike-h said:

    When a team picks a quarterback, it should play said quarterback to be able to make definitive statements like you just made.

    Coaches watch him every day on the practice field - and analyze the all-22 view of the practice as they need to. They see quite clearly that he has made zero improvements in his ability to execute a progression since he was drafted. JFF was given more than a "fair" chance to earn that playing time.. and JFF didn't deserve it. Nobody "gets" anything in life.. you have to earn it.

    JFF had to beat out McCown.. a fair requirement, every young QB has to beat the veteran. And JFF never did... because he's simply not good enough. Cleveland should actually not "just play" him with a more competent McCown sitting on the bench.

    The definitive statement was made: JFF is not a good football player. I hope he goes back to school, finishes his degree, and makes something of his life. Of course, the Padres drafted him as a shortstop in the 2014 draft, so maybe he's got something there.

    @unsympathetic said:

    Apparently you don't understand what progression is - or how it works.

    Progression refers to the ability [or, in JFF's case, absence] of a QB to look at each WR sequentially during a play to determine if they are open. This is done based on how the defender is positioned, the relative speed of the defender in relation to the speed of the WR, and film study to know each defender's closing speed [eg if the defender is "baiting"].

    I was referencing his progression as a player, not his pocket ability (which, sorry to alarm you, has improved) -- I understand quarterback progressions quite well, but thank you for that very poor attempt at an explanation.

    Coaches watch him every day on the practice field - and analyze the all-22 view of the practice as they need to. They see quite clearly that he has made zero improvements in his ability to execute a progression since he was drafted. JFF was given more than a "fair" chance to earn that playing time.. and JFF didn't deserve it. Nobody "gets" anything in life.. you have to earn it.

    I trust people I know who get paid for their analysis of film, my own eye from watching All-22 each week, and the general consensus that Manziel made big strides. I do not trust your biased generalization without any supporting evidence.

    JFF had to beat out McCown.. a fair requirement, every young QB has to beat the veteran. And JFF never did... because he's simply not good enough. Cleveland should actually not "just play" him with a more competent McCown sitting on the bench.

    Not true. The best way to improve is to play. Only so much can be done and learned from the sidelines, especially for the quarterback position. This is a fact. The more he played, the more you started seeing him fix mistakes he had made. That's called "progression" and what I was referring to.

    The definitive statement was made: JFF is not a good football player. I hope he goes back to school, finishes his degree, and makes something of his life. Of course, the Padres drafted him as a shortstop in the 2014 draft, so maybe he's got something there.

    Again, not true, and more unfunny rhetoric to prove your bias. Have a nice day, or don't, I don't care.

    Not sure if you can afford ESPN Insider or not, but this is a good read. Education is worth the small investment.

    (Matt Bowen knows football better than you).

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/13713515/browns-qb-johnny-manziel-made-real-progress-nfl?ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Bowen_ManzielProgress

  • Based on the Titans game?

    The Titans game wasn't even that good. He just hit 2 deep passes to Benjamin that a good quarterback would have recognized and made sooner - like Austin Davis did later in the season on virtually the same play (when filling in for McCown)

    Maybe he was milwaukees best in 2014 and now he's olde english in 2015. I mean maybe it's progress, but it still sucks.

    Personally, I'd be much happier with a quarterback who can recognize where the blitz is coming from and identify 1-on-1 coverage with Travis Benjamin before the ball even snaps - then stand in the face of pressure and toss a long accurate TD with a quick, high release. But we haven't drafted Goff yet.

  • I linked something in earlier post from after the Pittsburgh game as well. The only point is that he has improved and people continue to deny it because they don't want to see it, or aren't capable of objective analysis. (Or not capable of analyzing football)

  • Mike HM Mike H

    I linked something in earlier post from after the Pittsburgh game as well. The only point is that he has improved and people continue to deny it because they don't want to see it, or aren't capable of objective analysis. (Or not capable of analyzing football)

    @mike-h said:

    I linked something in earlier post from after the Pittsburgh game as well. The only point is that he has improved and people continue to deny it because they don't want to see it, or aren't capable of objective analysis. (Or not capable of analyzing football)

    Mike, I won't deny Johnny has made progress. It's going to be up to Hue to decide if he's made enough progress to warrant keeping him around. My bet is not.

  • hoortaH hoorta

    @mike-h said:

    I linked something in earlier post from after the Pittsburgh game as well. The only point is that he has improved and people continue to deny it because they don't want to see it, or aren't capable of objective analysis. (Or not capable of analyzing football)

    Mike, I won't deny Johnny has made progress. It's going to be up to Hue to decide if he's made enough progress to warrant keeping him around. My bet is not.

    @hoorta said:

    Mike, I won't deny Johnny has made progress. It's going to be up to Hue to decide if he's made enough progress to warrant keeping him around. My bet is not.

    Certainly doesn't look good.

  • Johnny still has support from the front office according to Tony Rizzo

    hoortaH 1 Reply
  • H hunter48

    Rizzo said yesterday morning on knr he has heard that there is still support for Manzeil in Berea.

    @hunter48 said:

    Rizzo said yesterday morning on knr he has heard that there is still support for Manzeil in Berea.

    ohhhhhh boy o boy....

  • H hunter48

    Johnny still has support from the front office according to Tony Rizzo

    @hunter48 said:

    Johnny still has support from the front office according to Tony Rizzo

    I merged that with the ever growing Johnny thread. I'll call this unsubstantiated BS. They're only trying to keep his trade value up- as they should.

    W Mike HM 2 Replies
  • hoortaH hoorta

    @hunter48 said:

    Johnny still has support from the front office according to Tony Rizzo

    I merged that with the ever growing Johnny thread. I'll call this unsubstantiated BS. They're only trying to keep his trade value up- as they should.

    @hoorta said:

    I merged that with the ever growing Johnny thread. I'll call this unsubstantiated BS. They're only trying to keep his trade value up- as they should.

    Unsubstantiated BS??? On the Browns Board???

    😁

    WSS

    www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
  • hoortaH hoorta

    @hunter48 said:

    Johnny still has support from the front office according to Tony Rizzo

    I merged that with the ever growing Johnny thread. I'll call this unsubstantiated BS. They're only trying to keep his trade value up- as they should.

    @hoorta said:

    I merged that with the ever growing Johnny thread. I'll call this unsubstantiated BS. They're only trying to keep his trade value up- as they should.

    I don't think we get to make those distinctions. You can't give credence to Peter King's "Browns are DONE with JM" comment (before Hue was even hired) and then ignore this because you prefer, or think one to be true over the other.

    If Manziel is really that big of a problem for Scheiner and Jimmy that he's worth releasing, there will not be a team willing to trade for him--leaking positivity to a second-rate radio host is not going to change that perception, if that's the reality.

  • Second rate radio host???!!....then he's moved up in the rankings.

  • It does seem that if there has been a meeting with any of the new regime and Johnny it would be big news.

    Given the importance of the quarterback position doesn't it seem like that meeting would have taken place if in fact there was interest on either side?

    WSS

    www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
  • W Westside Steve

    It does seem that if there has been a meeting with any of the new regime and Johnny it would be big news.

    Given the importance of the quarterback position doesn't it seem like that meeting would have taken place if in fact there was interest on either side?

    WSS

    @westside-steve said:

    It does seem that if there has been a meeting with any of the new regime and Johnny it would be big news.

    Given the importance of the quarterback position doesn't it seem like that meeting would have taken place if in fact there was interest on either side?

    WSS

    I'm not sure the coaches are allowed to talk football with the players until some time in April - something to do with the CBA rules.

    I remember when Pettine was hired and Hoyer was in the facility rehabbing his ACL they weren't allowed to really talk to each other except for like "hey how are you doing"

    And I imagine Johnny will be spending his off season in Texas, Vegas, and anywhere else that isn't Berea - so if they did have a conversation it'd be private by phone and wouldn't be about anything football related.

  • Actually it's been reported that one of the brass had a nice long conversation with Joe Thomas. Seems like you should be able to talk to any player on your roster, right?

    WSS

    www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons

  • This is from 2014 so not sure it still applies. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11009309/shorter-nfl-offseason-restrictions-hamper-coaches

    "Coaches hate that they can't have a meaningful, football-related conversation with players until mid-April, at the earliest."

  • T TexasAg1969

    This is from 2014 so not sure it still applies. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11009309/shorter-nfl-offseason-restrictions-hamper-coaches

    "Coaches hate that they can't have a meaningful, football-related conversation with players until mid-April, at the earliest."

    @texasag1969 said:

    This is from 2014 so not sure it still applies. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11009309/shorter-nfl-offseason-restrictions-hamper-coaches

    "Coaches hate that they can't have a meaningful, football-related conversation with players until mid-April, at the earliest."

    That could be the dumbest rule ever. Although, I wish my employer couldn't talk to me for three months out of the year.

  • KvoetheK Kvoethe

    @texasag1969 said:

    This is from 2014 so not sure it still applies. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11009309/shorter-nfl-offseason-restrictions-hamper-coaches

    "Coaches hate that they can't have a meaningful, football-related conversation with players until mid-April, at the earliest."

    That could be the dumbest rule ever. Although, I wish my employer couldn't talk to me for three months out of the year.

    @kvoethe said:

    That could be the dumbest rule ever. Although, I wish my employer couldn't talk to me for three months out of the year.

    If they paid me $5m a year, I would probably be ok being available for 11 months of the year

  • but the season isn't over yet correct? so talking to joe thomas wasn't breaking any rules. i mean the friggin pro bowl is sunday and the super bowl is in 2 weeks, wtf?

    or is it when teams are done then the rule is in effect?

    "yeah we don't mind you playing in the pro bowl. go break a leg! DOH!!!"

  • miktoxicM miktoxic

    but the season isn't over yet correct? so talking to joe thomas wasn't breaking any rules. i mean the friggin pro bowl is sunday and the super bowl is in 2 weeks, wtf?

    or is it when teams are done then the rule is in effect?

    "yeah we don't mind you playing in the pro bowl. go break a leg! DOH!!!"

    @miktoxic said:

    but the season isn't over yet correct? so talking to joe thomas wasn't breaking any rules. i mean the friggin pro bowl is sunday and the super bowl is in 2 weeks, wtf?

    or is it when teams are done then the rule is in effect?

    "yeah we don't mind you playing in the pro bowl. go break a leg! DOH!!!"

    I'm not sure but that's a good question. We hired Pettine pre-super bowl and I remember him saying he's seen Hoyer around for his rehab but couldn't really talk to him about anything (Or Hoyer said that he met Pettine, but couldn't talk football even though it seemed like he was itching to get started) - something along those lines was said back in 14'

    Players can't even go throw a football on the team field in those couple of months though, I think they can only do strength & conditioning stuff in the facility. Otherwise they have to go do it on their own in a non-NFL/non-team facility.

    Idk how they got that crap into the CBA last time - maybe the rule is different for pro-bowl players and they're allowed to freely use the facility and coaching resources, not sure.

  • Sashi, at Senior Bowl, comments on Johnny ... pretty much what you would expect him to say

    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/more_johnny_manziel_partying_v.html

    hoortaH 1 Reply
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