We have our VP of Player Personnel (Sources say)

Osiris

@the-gipper said:

Again, half of it is facetious.

See now the pink would've really helped.

Zombo

Seems we are assembling the brightest of the bright ... but just had a scary thought:

Wouldn't this guy have been in the room with a big thumbs up when Banner and Lombardi dumped Trent Richardson on them for a first round draft pick?

Oh well, I'm OK with that ... make your mistakes with your first team and excel with your second team.

It worked for Belichick, don't see him drafting Tommy Vardell's in New England.

Zombo

--Actually, mistakes can happen with good people any time ... Bobby Beathard put together 4 Super Bows teams ... then drafted Ryan Leaf.

Tour2ma

I've no idea how good our new ScoutMaster is or could be, but of all the NFL organizations to raid for a personnel guy, how can Indy's be high on a list?

@miktoxic said:
Hue's prob got nothing to do with these hires.

If that's the case, then it's his own fault since participating in this hire was one of the ballyhooed points during our HC search.

@osiris said:
I don't get the anti-intellectual attitude a lot of people have on this board, and in this country, for that matter.

On the board... think Retard.

As for the country... because it suits the purpose of some very smart people.

Zombo

Pluto on the 28 year old Berry:

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2016/01/cleveland_browns_make_a_bold_r.html#incart_river_index

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Andrew Berry as the Browns new vice president of player personnel?

This is yet another move that very few people saw coming from the most unique front office in the NFL.

Berry is 28 years old. He has been the pro scouting coordinator for the Indianapolis Colts since 2012. It was his job to put together scouting reports and data on veteran players, then deliver the information to the coach and general manager. His bosses made the final decisions.

Unless someone has inside knowledge of how Berry rated players, it's impossible to know much of his track record.

It's possible the Browns do have someone who knows Berry well. That's Pep Hamilton, the Browns new assistant head coach for offense. Hamilton was the offensive coordinator with the Colts from 2013 through the middle of the 2015 season.

The Browns made another smart move, hiring Harvard grad Andrew Berry as their Vice President of Player Personnel.

The decision to hire the former Harvard football star fits in with the bold and fascinating approach the Browns have adopted with their front office.

Berry graduated cum laude from Harvard with an economics degree. He has a Masters in computer science.

He certainly can talk analytics with vice president Sashi Brown and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta.

But I was told the Colts used very little analytics. They are more of a tradition football front office. Berry did normal scouting. But the Harvard background clearly makes him open to the new way the Browns will be doing business.

WHAT ABOUT HUE?

New coach Hue Jackson was supposed to have a major influence on the decision of who would be hired as the talent evaluator. Everyone from owner Jimmy Haslam to Sashi Brown to Jackson himself said as much.

I don't think everyone was lying about that. One of the attractions of the job to Jackson was to be a part of the process of adding the key player personnel man.

That means Jackson also wanted Berry. That brings the count of Harvard graduates to three in the front office. Brown and DePodesta also attended the elite Ivy League university.

Those who know Jackson describe him as a traditional football coach.

Look at his key assistants. There's defensive coordinator Ray Horton and special teams coach Chris Tabor, both veterans. The top offensive assistants are Al Saunders, Kirby Wilson, Hal Hunter and Pep Hamilton. These guys have been around the league for a long time.

Jackson is surrounding himself with experience on the coaching staff.

Yet, he signed off on Berry.

Jackson knows that Berry is crucial to his success. That's because Berry should have a significant voice in picking players -- based on how the Browns described the job.

So Jackson must sense something special about Berry. Jackson told some people close to him last night that he was impressed with Berry's grasp of football and scouting.

WHO REALLY KNOWS?

I'm not criticizing the hiring of Berry. The Browns are betting on intelligence, character, work ethic and potential. Berry arrives with those intangibles that often are prerequisites to success.

One NFL executive didn't quite know what to make of Berry. But the executive told me that many of the other candidates interviewed were "underwhelming." He was talking about Brian Xanders, Martin Mayhew and Dennis Hickey. All are former general manager with spotty histories.

Unlike Brown and DePodesta, Berry's experience (with the Colts since 2009) has been exclusively on the football side of the operation. That should help, but he has done very little college scouting.

Right now, no one in the front office has set up a college draft board before. They do have veteran scouts such as Chisom Opara, Bobby Vega, Lake Dawson and Ron Hill.

But this is a gamble. I was told Berry "blew away" the Browns during multiple interviews. He will have to prove that the faith shown in him by Haslam and the rest is deserved come draft weekend.

Right now, no one in the front office has set up a college draft board before.

Former Colts president Bill Polian issued this statement through the Browns:

"Andrew Berry is one of the brightest young men we ever had the pleasure of working with. He came to us very early in his career and very soon we realized he was on a fast track. I am not surprised the Browns hired him for this very important position. I assure you he has both the capacity and the will to do an outstanding job. The Browns have made, in my humble opinion, a great hire."

So in the draft where the Browns have the No. 2 and 32 picks, they have three rookies in charge -- Brown, DePodesta and Berry.

Experience isn't everything. The Browns front office (2010-12) of president Mike Holmgren, general manager Tom Heckert and others were NFL lifers. Most of those drafts were a nightmare.

Former GM Ray Farmer (2014-15) was an assistant general manager and pro player personnel director for eight years with Kansas City/Cleveland. He was a scout for five years. He had only two drafts, but early returns are disheartening.

Can the front office collection of Brown/DePodesta/Berry, with its new approach to the draft, scouting and free agency, blend with the more traditional group of Jackson and his coaches?

Should make for some lively meetings.

This much is clear: The Browns are committed to analytics. It's a front office the likes of which has never been in charge of the Browns -- and perhaps any other NFL team.

That makes the upcoming draft even more intriguing for Browns fans.

The Gipper

@osiris said:

See now the pink would've really helped.

Except I wasn't being sarcastic here one bit.

The Gipper

Can the front office collection of Brown/DePodesta/Berry, with its new approach to the draft, scouting and free agency, blend with the more traditional group of Jackson and his coaches?

Should make for some lively meetings.

This much is clear: The Browns are committed to analytics. It's a front office the likes of which has never been in charge of the Browns -- and perhaps any other NFL team.

That makes the upcoming draft even more intriguing for Browns fans.

Not repeating the entire article....but it asks the question: Can this front office perform the job of drafting rookies and signing free agents well?

My question it: Can they do any worse than the guys we have had running the show. I say not. I say that you and I and a computer with access to draft services like Kiper and CBS/Fox/NFL.com could have done just as well as these guys have done.

So, I definitely count this as an upgrade.

hoorta

@the-gipper said:

Can the front office collection of Brown/DePodesta/Berry, with its new approach to the draft, scouting and free agency, blend with the more traditional group of Jackson and his coaches?

Should make for some lively meetings.

This much is clear: The Browns are committed to analytics. It's a front office the likes of which has never been in charge of the Browns -- and perhaps any other NFL team.

That makes the upcoming draft even more intriguing for Browns fans.

Not repeating the entire article....but it asks the question: Can this front office perform the job of drafting rookies and signing free agents well?

My question it: Can they do any worse than the guys we have had running the show. I say not. I say that you and I and a computer with access to draft services like Kiper and CBS/Fox/NFL.com could have done just as well as these guys have done.

So, I definitely count this as an upgrade.

I'll have to assume if it's going to be a quarterback @ #2, after crunching the analytics, Hue is going to have a huge- if not final- say on who we draft. I'm sure they'll interview, work out, and watch every snap Goff, Wentz, and Lynch have played. As well as interview college coaches and do some pretty thorough background checks- guaranteed we aren't drafting any barflies & head cases this time around

Mike H

@hoorta said:

I'll have to assume if it's going to be a quarterback @ #2, after crunching the analytics, Hue is going to have a huge- if not final- say on who we draft. I'm sure they'll interview, work out, and watch every snap Goff, Wentz, and Lynch have played. As well as interview college coaches and do some pretty thorough background checks- guaranteed we aren't drafting any barflies & head cases this time around

Disagree with both your bolded points. Analytics wasn't invented overnight, and it's something Sashi has been working with already. Hard to imagine how drafting a quarterback--the hardest and most illusive position to crack--would be the better mathematical move with their first, first round pick.

Sashi also has final say, not Hue.

Osiris

@the-gipper said:
Except I wasn't being sarcastic here one bit.

I know I meant for the earlier post. Agree with Asimov 100%

TexasAg1969

How many Harvard grads does it take to change a lightbulb? 3 at the Browns FO.

1 to hold the bulb and 2 to turn the chair.

Gonna be an interesting off-season.

Mudfly

Just getting caught up on some of these FO hires and gotta say....wtf?..I just dont know....???

Cant say Im excited, cause I know nothing about these guys or how they'll do......cant say Im bummed, cause I know nothing about these guys or how they'll do.....

hmmmmm....the Haaavaaard sweater brigade....

@unsympathetic said:

Or, we might actually have a team that calls plays that aren't predictable? One that calls both a run and the play-action pass which faked that same run at the start?

Thats a dilemma right there......because analytics would dictate what plays work best in what situations......so, if a coach calls something "outside of the box" and it fails, then he's a dumb ass for doing so and the comments will be something like "everyone knows you run in that situation".....but if the play works out, then he's a genius(until the next bad call).....

Think Seattle New England....goal line play....and how brilliant Pete Carroll looked that day....

I dont think its a chess match....its about beating the other guy with execution.....not trickery....

Tour2ma

There is a difference, however, between unpredictability and trickery...

Tour2ma

One of things I read in MKC's column that questioned Brown's hiring was that his scout experience is all on the pro-side. So what?

I fail to see the difference purely from an evaluation process perspective, but that is only one level. When it comes to weighing attributes, would it not make sense to have your ScoutMaster know which attributes make the best pros?

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:

One of things I read in MKC's column that questioned Brown's hiring was that his scout experience is all on the pro-side. So what?

I fail to see the difference purely from an evaluation process perspective, but that is only one level. When it comes to weighing attributes, would it not make sense to have your ScoutMaster know which attributes make the best pros?

What percentage of our roster is made up of guys that were "Pros" before we got them.....i.e. ones that were not taken directly from college, be it drafted or UDFA.........Probably close to 50%? That is why we need someone whose experience is on the "Pro" side.

You can hire college scouts. Where is Andrew Berry's experience? College. Well then, that would balance things out, wouldn't it.

Tour2ma

So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

The Gipper

@tour2ma said:
So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

Level of competition?

Mudfly

@tour2ma said:
So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

My guess....and it is a guess.....would be that college scouts are evaluating players talent level and how they may do as pros...

While Pro scouts are used more to evaluate teams and schemes and the things you'll be up against when playing them.....and, perhaps, the occassion player who you may trade for or sign in FA....though, usually, most of the talent level and Pro-ability is already determined by this time.....

Tour2ma

@mudfly said:

My guess....and it is a guess.....would be that college scouts are evaluating players talent level and how they may do as pros...

While Pro scouts are used more to evaluate teams and schemes and the things you'll be up against when playing them.....and, perhaps, the occassion player who you may trade for or sign in FA....though, usually, most of the talent level and Pro-ability is already determined by this time.....

Sure if he was involved in advance scouting... the article did not make it seem he was... but then it was MKC.

"Berry has spent the past seven seasons in scouting with the Colts, including the last four as pro scouting director. But he's studied mostly existing NFL players and not college prospects. He's assisted with the college process, but hasn't been responsible for making those picks."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/why_some_nfl_execs_are_seeing.html

htownbrown

Ok so Sashi runs the draft and Berry runs free agency, but I'm still confused on what DePodesta does. Is he a salaried consultant? That's the vibe I'm getting.

Tour2ma

@htownbrown said:
Ok so Sashi runs the draft and Berry runs free agency, but I'm still confused on what DePodesta does. Is he a salaried consultant? That's the vibe I'm getting.

Here's the sense I am getting for player acquisition:

Berry runs traditional scouting period... be it pro or collegiate.
DePo seems to have a duel role: developing the analytic tools and the organization's personnel selection processes.
Sashi is the gatekeeper at the confluence of the traditional and analytic processes, and adds the cost element (value) to the decision process. Then he drives the personnel decision process to consensus, if possible, but breaks ties, if needed.

The above can easily be turned inward as well... a needs assessment, if you will.

As an example...

If we are considering an acquisition for FS, we have to include the worth of keeping Gip vs. various FA, draft and current roster alternatives. This brings out the value of analytics is determining the relative worth of players.

For any single position the process should be already well defined. Considering options across two or more positions is surely more complex, but our cap space may delay the pain of many such decisions for a season or two. Then the process should hopefully be fully developed

Or not...