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We have our VP of Player Personnel (Sources say)

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  • The GipperT The Gipper wrote on
    #30
    Can the front office collection of Brown/DePodesta/Berry, with its new approach to the draft, scouting and free agency, blend with the more traditional group of Jackson and his coaches?
    Should make for some lively meetings.
    This much is clear: The Browns are committed to analytics. It's a front office the likes of which has never been in charge of the Browns -- and perhaps any other NFL team.
    That makes the upcoming draft even more intriguing for Browns fans.
    Not repeating the entire article....but it asks the question: Can this front office perform the job of drafting rookies and signing free agents well?
    My question it: Can they do any worse than the guys we have had running the show. I say not. I say that you and I and a computer with access to draft services like Kiper and CBS/Fox/NFL.com could have done just as well as these guys have done.
    So, I definitely count this as an upgrade.
  • The GipperT The Gipper
    Can the front office collection of Brown/DePodesta/Berry, with its new approach to the draft, scouting and free agency, blend with the more traditional group of Jackson and his coaches?
    Should make for some lively meetings.
    This much is clear: The Browns are committed to analytics. It's a front office the likes of which has never been in charge of the Browns -- and perhaps any other NFL team.
    That makes the upcoming draft even more intriguing for Browns fans.
    Not repeating the entire article....but it asks the question: Can this front office perform the job of drafting rookies and signing free agents well?
    My question it: Can they do any worse than the guys we have had running the show. I say not. I say that you and I and a computer with access to draft services like Kiper and CBS/Fox/NFL.com could have done just as well as these guys have done.
    So, I definitely count this as an upgrade.
    hoortaH hoorta wrote on
    #31

    @the-gipper said:

    Can the front office collection of Brown/DePodesta/Berry, with its new approach to the draft, scouting and free agency, blend with the more traditional group of Jackson and his coaches?
    Should make for some lively meetings.
    This much is clear: The Browns are committed to analytics. It's a front office the likes of which has never been in charge of the Browns -- and perhaps any other NFL team.
    That makes the upcoming draft even more intriguing for Browns fans.
    Not repeating the entire article....but it asks the question: Can this front office perform the job of drafting rookies and signing free agents well?
    My question it: Can they do any worse than the guys we have had running the show. I say not. I say that you and I and a computer with access to draft services like Kiper and CBS/Fox/NFL.com could have done just as well as these guys have done.
    So, I definitely count this as an upgrade.

    I'll have to assume if it's going to be a quarterback @ #2, after crunching the analytics, Hue is going to have a huge- if not final- say on who we draft. I'm sure they'll interview, work out, and watch every snap Goff, Wentz, and Lynch have played. As well as interview college coaches and do some pretty thorough background checks- guaranteed we aren't drafting any barflies & head cases this time around

  • hoortaH hoorta

    @the-gipper said:

    Can the front office collection of Brown/DePodesta/Berry, with its new approach to the draft, scouting and free agency, blend with the more traditional group of Jackson and his coaches?
    Should make for some lively meetings.
    This much is clear: The Browns are committed to analytics. It's a front office the likes of which has never been in charge of the Browns -- and perhaps any other NFL team.
    That makes the upcoming draft even more intriguing for Browns fans.
    Not repeating the entire article....but it asks the question: Can this front office perform the job of drafting rookies and signing free agents well?
    My question it: Can they do any worse than the guys we have had running the show. I say not. I say that you and I and a computer with access to draft services like Kiper and CBS/Fox/NFL.com could have done just as well as these guys have done.
    So, I definitely count this as an upgrade.

    I'll have to assume if it's going to be a quarterback @ #2, after crunching the analytics, Hue is going to have a huge- if not final- say on who we draft. I'm sure they'll interview, work out, and watch every snap Goff, Wentz, and Lynch have played. As well as interview college coaches and do some pretty thorough background checks- guaranteed we aren't drafting any barflies & head cases this time around

    Mike HM Mike H wrote on
    #32

    @hoorta said:

    I'll have to assume if it's going to be a quarterback @ #2, after crunching the analytics, Hue is going to have a huge- if not final- say on who we draft. I'm sure they'll interview, work out, and watch every snap Goff, Wentz, and Lynch have played. As well as interview college coaches and do some pretty thorough background checks- guaranteed we aren't drafting any barflies & head cases this time around

    Disagree with both your bolded points. Analytics wasn't invented overnight, and it's something Sashi has been working with already. Hard to imagine how drafting a quarterback--the hardest and most illusive position to crack--would be the better mathematical move with their first, first round pick.

    Sashi also has final say, not Hue.

  • The GipperT The Gipper

    @osiris said:

    See now the pink would've really helped. πŸ™‚

    Except I wasn't being sarcastic here one bit.

    OsirisO Osiris wrote on
    #33

    @the-gipper said:

    Except I wasn't being sarcastic here one bit.

    I know I meant for the earlier post. Agree with Asimov 100%

    "I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta
  • T TexasAg1969 wrote on
    #34

    How many Harvard grads does it take to change a lightbulb? 3 at the Browns FO.

    1 to hold the bulb and 2 to turn the chair.

    Gonna be an interesting off-season. 😁

  • U Unsympathetic

    @flyingfooldoug said:

    we should have a pretty competitive chess team

    Or, we might actually have a team that calls plays that aren't predictable? One that calls both a run and the play-action pass which faked that same run at the start?

    You know.. chess.

    I realize you wanted that comment to be an insult.... but the fact that you don't realize that the strategy is the same is.. sad, really.

    MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #35

    Just getting caught up on some of these FO hires and gotta say....wtf?..I just dont know....???

    Cant say Im excited, cause I know nothing about these guys or how they'll do......cant say Im bummed, cause I know nothing about these guys or how they'll do.....

    hmmmmm....the Haaavaaard sweater brigade....

    @unsympathetic said:

    Or, we might actually have a team that calls plays that aren't predictable? One that calls both a run and the play-action pass which faked that same run at the start?

    Thats a dilemma right there......because analytics would dictate what plays work best in what situations......so, if a coach calls something "outside of the box" and it fails, then he's a dumb ass for doing so and the comments will be something like "everyone knows you run in that situation".....but if the play works out, then he's a genius(until the next bad call).....

    Think Seattle New England....goal line play....and how brilliant Pete Carroll looked that day....

    I dont think its a chess match....its about beating the other guy with execution.....not trickery....

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #36

    There is a difference, however, between unpredictability and trickery...

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #37

    One of things I read in MKC's column that questioned Brown's hiring was that his scout experience is all on the pro-side. So what?

    I fail to see the difference purely from an evaluation process perspective, but that is only one level. When it comes to weighing attributes, would it not make sense to have your ScoutMaster know which attributes make the best pros?

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    One of things I read in MKC's column that questioned Brown's hiring was that his scout experience is all on the pro-side. So what?

    I fail to see the difference purely from an evaluation process perspective, but that is only one level. When it comes to weighing attributes, would it not make sense to have your ScoutMaster know which attributes make the best pros?

    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on
    #38

    @tour2ma said:

    One of things I read in MKC's column that questioned Brown's hiring was that his scout experience is all on the pro-side. So what?

    I fail to see the difference purely from an evaluation process perspective, but that is only one level. When it comes to weighing attributes, would it not make sense to have your ScoutMaster know which attributes make the best pros?

    What percentage of our roster is made up of guys that were "Pros" before we got them.....i.e. ones that were not taken directly from college, be it drafted or UDFA.........Probably close to 50%? That is why we need someone whose experience is on the "Pro" side.

    You can hire college scouts. Where is Andrew Berry's experience? College. Well then, that would balance things out, wouldn't it.

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #39

    So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
    The GipperT MudflyM 2 Replies
  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

    The GipperT The Gipper wrote on
    #40

    @tour2ma said:

    So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

    Level of competition?

  • Tour2maT Tour2ma

    So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

    MudflyM Mudfly wrote on
    #41

    @tour2ma said:

    So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

    My guess....and it is a guess.....would be that college scouts are evaluating players talent level and how they may do as pros...

    While Pro scouts are used more to evaluate teams and schemes and the things you'll be up against when playing them.....and, perhaps, the occassion player who you may trade for or sign in FA....though, usually, most of the talent level and Pro-ability is already determined by this time.....

  • MudflyM Mudfly

    @tour2ma said:

    So what's the difference between scouting a pro and scouting a college kid?

    My guess....and it is a guess.....would be that college scouts are evaluating players talent level and how they may do as pros...

    While Pro scouts are used more to evaluate teams and schemes and the things you'll be up against when playing them.....and, perhaps, the occassion player who you may trade for or sign in FA....though, usually, most of the talent level and Pro-ability is already determined by this time.....

    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #42

    @mudfly said:

    My guess....and it is a guess.....would be that college scouts are evaluating players talent level and how they may do as pros...

    While Pro scouts are used more to evaluate teams and schemes and the things you'll be up against when playing them.....and, perhaps, the occassion player who you may trade for or sign in FA....though, usually, most of the talent level and Pro-ability is already determined by this time.....

    Sure if he was involved in advance scouting... the article did not make it seem he was... but then it was MKC.

    "Berry has spent the past seven seasons in scouting with the Colts, including the last four as pro scouting director. But he's studied mostly existing NFL players and not college prospects. He's assisted with the college process, but hasn't been responsible for making those picks."

    http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/01/why_some_nfl_execs_are_seeing.html

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • htownbrownH htownbrown wrote on
    #43

    Ok so Sashi runs the draft and Berry runs free agency, but I'm still confused on what DePodesta does. Is he a salaried consultant? That's the vibe I'm getting.

    β€œIt is impossible to get a man to understand something if his livelihood depends on him not understanding.”
  • htownbrownH htownbrown

    Ok so Sashi runs the draft and Berry runs free agency, but I'm still confused on what DePodesta does. Is he a salaried consultant? That's the vibe I'm getting.

    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #44

    @htownbrown said:

    Ok so Sashi runs the draft and Berry runs free agency, but I'm still confused on what DePodesta does. Is he a salaried consultant? That's the vibe I'm getting.

    Here's the sense I am getting for player acquisition:

    • Berry runs traditional scouting period... be it pro or collegiate.
    • DePo seems to have a duel role: developing the analytic tools and the organization's personnel selection processes.
    • Sashi is the gatekeeper at the confluence of the traditional and analytic processes, and adds the cost element (value) to the decision process. Then he drives the personnel decision process to consensus, if possible, but breaks ties, if needed.
    The above can easily be turned inward as well... a needs assessment, if you will.

    As an example...

    If we are considering an acquisition for FS, we have to include the worth of keeping Gip vs. various FA, draft and current roster alternatives. This brings out the value of analytics is determining the relative worth of players.

    For any single position the process should be already well defined. Considering options across two or more positions is surely more complex, but our cap space may delay the pain of many such decisions for a season or two. Then the process should hopefully be fully developed

    Or not... πŸ˜‰

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • gftChrisG gftChris wrote on
    #45

    Something I read the other day that fills me with trepidation. Berry was presumably part of the pro-scouting department in Indy that green-lighted the Trent Richardson trade. That is, assuming it wasn't an Irsay special

    Tour2maT 1 Reply
  • W Westside Steve wrote on
    #46

    Considering options across two or more positions is surely more complex, but our cap space may delay the pain of many such decisions for a season or two. Then the process should hopefully be fully developed

    Or not... πŸ˜‰

    A season or two?

    Uh oh...

    WSS

    www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons
  • W Westside Steve

    Considering options across two or more positions is surely more complex, but our cap space may delay the pain of many such decisions for a season or two. Then the process should hopefully be fully developed

    Or not... πŸ˜‰

    A season or two?

    Uh oh...

    WSS

    T TexasAg1969 wrote on
    #47

    @westside-steve said:

    A season or two?

    Uh oh...

    WSS

    Have they made that clear to quick gun Jimmy? πŸ₯·

  • gftChrisG gftChris

    Something I read the other day that fills me with trepidation. Berry was presumably part of the pro-scouting department in Indy that green-lighted the Trent Richardson trade. That is, assuming it wasn't an Irsay special

    Tour2maT Tour2ma wrote on
    #48

    @gftchris said:

    Something I read the other day that fills me with trepidation. Berry was presumably part of the pro-scouting department in Indy that green-lighted the Trent Richardson trade. That is, assuming it wasn't an Irsay special

    I was there as well, but I just read this:

    Berry comes highly recommended from Pro Football Hall of Fame front-office executive Bill Polian.

    β€œAndrew Berry is one of the brightest young men we ever had the pleasure of working with,” Polian said. β€œHe came to us very early in his career, and very soon, we realized he was on a fast track. I am not surprised the Browns hired him for this very important position. I assure you he has both the capacity and the will to do an outstanding job. The Browns have made, in my humble opinion, a great hire.”

    http://www.wkyc.com/sports/nfl/browns/cleveland-browns-proud-of-front-office-staff-they-have-built/38039181

    "When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
  • gftChrisG gftChris wrote on
    #49

    The same Bill Polian we've been giving Gipper shit about based on his opinion alone? πŸ˜‰

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