Rosterology
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I think Jimmy landing Hue was gigantic in possibly helping us keep some vets that were on the fence about staying while he can also attract some veteran FAs that would not have otherwise been interested. Without knowing who we stand to lose in free agency - I'm hoping we can keep the following players to build on in 2016:
J. McCown - The QB position was the least of all our worries when he started.
T. Benjamin - We've always wanted a mid-late round draft investment where after 3-4 years of coaching and experience - he has you enjoying the return value. Speaking of return value, he's given our special teams quite a bit of that over the years. BABOOMBA!
G. Barnidge - Don't I feel like an epic Dumb Ass for not being able to see the type of production he had in store for us in 2015.
J. Thomas - 9 consecutive Pro Bowls on the blind side of passer. We went 10-6 in his rookie year after upgrading our left side of the line from Kevin Shaffer and Joe Andruzzi to Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach. How's that for a powerful first impression?
J. Bitonio - The first company Joe Thomas has had on the left side since Steinbach went under the knife. I liked his first impression too in 2014.
M. Schwartz - He's always been an underrated run blocker while it was never his fault it was tough to run inside of tackle before Greco had a career best season in 2014. Teammates call him Oracle showing great respect for his preparation and football IQ.
J. Greco - I read he lost about 23 lbs in the off season leading up to our 7-4 start in 2014. He didn't look quite as good in 2015 but he, of all people, should know the reasons were.
A. Mack - He's got 2-3 Pro Bowls on the resume now so we could do a lot worse such as our memories of life after Alex in 2014 perhaps. Does bringing Hue Jackson here plus adding 2 guys from Harvard to our front office change his outlook about who he's putting it on the line for?
C. Erving - With some degree of reluctance, I have to give him 1 more year. I'm just not sure we can correct his leverage issues vrs many of the powerful/stout frames he will face. Joe Thomas doesn't seem to think we need to panic about him so let's see what the experience and off season conditioning does to better this story.
Duke Johnson - Think of the excitement Flip has already tapped from this kid plus what Hue Jackson has gotten out of a guy like Gio Bernard. Worst case scenario he's got the 3rd down Mr Magic ability of Herman Fontenot (but he's a little more of a threat running the ball as well).
I. Crowell - There was a 6-7 week stretch where he averaged 5.4 yards per carry as a rookie RB in 2014. It made it pretty easy to pronounce his first name "I SAY YEAH." He had somewhat of a soph slump but not enough to worry about.
R. Mostert - This former Purdue RB looked like he added a little spark to our return game. Looked like he's got some keeper skills for STs at least.
T. Pryor - Kind of strange we didn't keep this guy only to add him with 3 weeks to go. It would have been nice to get him a full season of experience playing WR even if most of it was just practice reps.
J. Dray - Inexplicably went from sure handed in 2014 to sporting an occasional rock quarry in 2015. Good blocker.
EJ Bibbs - Kind of surprised we didn't see more of this kid. While Barnidge is emerging as our Winslow - this guy can be our Steve Heiden.
A. Pasztor - I was very pleasantly surprised at how well he filled in. This guy is a keeper with upside ahead.
B. Hartline - Experienced veteran we can line up inside or outside.
T. Gabriel/A. Hawkins - I don't want to keep both of these but I'd settle for 1 of them at least at this time. Both guys work really hard but they're just too small to get excited about. One of them is a knee-high slot receiver that gives our QB the task of throwing slant passes downward. The other hasn't been the same since that DB gave him post traumatic stress syndrome following that violent collision on the bubble screen. How many TDs have these guys combined for in 2 years? Keep 1 and upgrade the other.
C. Shaw - Very likable kid with a good football IQ as well as great ability to escape pressure. His last year in the SEC - he had a killer good TD-INT ratio that was something like 24:1. I remember Brian Sipe wasn't immediate but when we kept him around long enough - he had an MVP caliber season in him reminding us that was a great idea. Shaw can at least be a good idea.
T. Coons - When his kicks weren't blocked - he was pretty freakin reliable especially considering he was only a rookie. I wasted a lot of time worrying about the place kicker position last off season.
A. Lee - Another reliable foot for our STs. We're in good hands, I mean feet, I mean....
C. Hughlett - Long Snapper. That felt like I was missing words. Long Rattler power-drills Hot Snapper. Okay
J. Haden - Looking forward to seeing him healthy again. Hard to argue with how reliable he's been prior to 2015.
T. Gipson - Would love to keep this formerly undrafted FA. Maybe the departure of the front office he felt didn't respect his value gives us a chance for him to reconsider any previous resentment? Maybe?
T. Williams - If we can get a pass rush quicker than 30 Mississippi - he might not look his age out there.
K.Williams - He has displayed some pretty good cover skills especially considering he was undrafted. I wish he was a little more durable though.
C. Gaines - He was better than I thought he'd be. It'll be nice to see what he looks like with a year under his belt.
I. Campbell - I liked him in limited observation.
I. Ekpre-Olomu - Can't wait to see this kid.
D. Whitner - While I wasn't thrilled with him last year - he was still leading us in tackles before he got injured.
J. Poyer - Reliable depth at Safety.
P. Desir - This kid went from looking like he was improving to an audition cut short. Hard to learn from the mistakes of inexperience especially if one isn't given the chance to right?
J. Bademosi - He may not be one of my favorite DBs to see out there defending the pass; but he made the Pro Bowl as a gunner on STs. That says enough about the inner chest of this undrafted kid.
D. Shelton - I'm still excited about this guy believe it or not. He just needs to get his pad height down more consistently. Totally doable.
R. Starks - Despite some crack pipe decisions at the worst of times, this guy looks like he can give us some valuable reps in rotation.
J. Hughes III - Prior to 2015 I thought he was easily the best 2 gap player on our defensive line. I didn't get a very good read on him in 2015 to be honest so I'll stick with my gut. That said, the acro for Flugel's Abs is FLABS.
J. Meder - This former Ashland Eagle gives us quality reps and hurried some passers. Very pleasant surprise to me at least.
C. Robertson - Had a strong close filling in for Dansby in 2014 and he wasn'tbad in 2015.
K. Dansby - He scored on 2 different INTs reminding me what ideal first step instinct can do for a guy especially in hook zones.
D. Bryant - Not that this means much but Jimmy O'Neil said he had a great season.
A. Bryant - Made a nice recovery from his injury and brought some heat off the edge. I just hope that arrest late in the year isn't a bad sign about what's ahead.
X. Cooper - I think this guy is going to become what we want him to be once he gets enough reps and NFL strength and conditioning under his belt.
N. Orchard - Showed some real good signs like staying home and not biting on the fake that often sucked our edge in on the other side. And how about this? He's a pretty good tackler.
C. Kirksey - I'd like to see more consistency out of him. Then again, that goes for a lot of guys on our defense. It would be interesting to see if he's a better fit in the defense on deck.
P. Kruger - Wasn't very happy with him in 2015 but the front office we've been sentenced to hasn't left us any experienced alternatives.
This is my "Don't let the Door Hit Ya in the Ass on the way out" group:
Josh Gordon - The idea of him is way better than the reality folks. He was on 2 or 3 different college teams but got on the field for only pone of them. He has been with us for 4 years and suspended for significant parts of 3 of those seasons. If people are thinking he only had 1 or 2 beers the last time - is it possible to still have alcohol in one's urine 24 hours after consuming only 2 beers? Let's say I got that wrong even, he still put himself exactly where he couldn't afford to be if football was really the priority he keeps telling us it is. What gives anyone the confidence he's finally going to get it? The sad thing about this is I never got the impression he was a bad kid or an unlikable kid. He just isn't very smart and the brother he's close to loves to party. He had 3 strikes in college and at least 3 strikes in Cleveland. 1 more strike puts his career in long term park. Why not get something in return by sweetening the Jerry Jones package to include Gordon with Manziel?
Bark Mingo - He never looked compatible with Horton's plans the first time so I don't see it changing. Even worse, Horton's memories of him playing through a separated shoulder includes a lot of bad tackling. Joe Banner thought he was drafting us Jamie Collins and we ended up with tackles like Joan Collins. I liked his motor and saw some good coverage skills. Seemed like a nice kid too. Maybe he just needs a better situation than Cleveland had.
Justin Gilbert - When his previous coaches bashed his attitude and work ethic while plenty of college film showed a guy that didn't like to tackle people - THANK GOD WE'RE ADDING 2 HARVARD INTELLECTS TO OUR FRONT OFFICE.
Johnny Blutarsky-Manziel - Party on kid.
Austin Davis - This guy looked dumber than a box of rocks when there was a time urgency factor at the end of the half and end of the game. Who was the goof ball that thought this unemployed QB was the answer to all our prayers? I found the id ten t form for that squid and it looks like this: ID10T.
Dwayne Bowe - Cut his ass and pick up a guy like Lenz that would be happy to play at NFL minimum wage.
Tank Carder - He's a dime a dozen that didn't appear to make his move to more playing time.
I think Jimmy landing Hue was gigantic in possibly helping us keep some vets that were on the fence about staying while he can also attract some veteran FAs that would not have otherwise been interested. Without knowing who we stand to lose in free agency - I'm hoping we can keep the following players to build on in 2016:
J. McCown - The QB position was the least of all our worries when he started.
T. Benjamin - We've always wanted a mid-late round draft investment where after 3-4 years of coaching and experience - he has you enjoying the return value. Speaking of return value, he's given our special teams quite a bit of that over the years. BABOOMBA!
G. Barnidge - Don't I feel like an epic Dumb Ass for not being able to see the type of production he had in store for us in 2015.
J. Thomas - 9 consecutive Pro Bowls on the blind side of passer. We went 10-6 in his rookie year after upgrading our left side of the line from Kevin Shaffer and Joe Andruzzi to Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach. How's that for a powerful first impression?
J. Bitonio - The first company Joe Thomas has had on the left side since Steinbach went under the knife. I liked his first impression too in 2014.
M. Schwartz - He's always been an underrated run blocker while it was never his fault it was tough to run inside of tackle before Greco had a career best season in 2014. Teammates call him Oracle showing great respect for his preparation and football IQ.
J. Greco - I read he lost about 23 lbs in the off season leading up to our 7-4 start in 2014. He didn't look quite as good in 2015 but he, of all people, should know the reasons were.
A. Mack - He's got 2-3 Pro Bowls on the resume now so we could do a lot worse such as our memories of life after Alex in 2014 perhaps. Does bringing Hue Jackson here plus adding 2 guys from Harvard to our front office change his outlook about who he's putting it on the line for?
C. Erving - With some degree of reluctance, I have to give him 1 more year. I'm just not sure we can correct his leverage issues vrs many of the powerful/stout frames he will face. Joe Thomas doesn't seem to think we need to panic about him so let's see what the experience and off season conditioning does to better this story.
Duke Johnson - Think of the excitement Flip has already tapped from this kid plus what Hue Jackson has gotten out of a guy like Gio Bernard. Worst case scenario he's got the 3rd down Mr Magic ability of Herman Fontenot (but he's a little more of a threat running the ball as well).
I. Crowell - There was a 6-7 week stretch where he averaged 5.4 yards per carry as a rookie RB in 2014. It made it pretty easy to pronounce his first name "I SAY YEAH." He had somewhat of a soph slump but not enough to worry about.
R. Mostert - This former Purdue RB looked like he added a little spark to our return game. Looked like he's got some keeper skills for STs at least.
T. Pryor - Kind of strange we didn't keep this guy only to add him with 3 weeks to go. It would have been nice to get him a full season of experience playing WR even if most of it was just practice reps.
J. Dray - Inexplicably went from sure handed in 2014 to sporting an occasional rock quarry in 2015. Good blocker.
EJ Bibbs - Kind of surprised we didn't see more of this kid. While Barnidge is emerging as our Winslow - this guy can be our Steve Heiden.
A. Pasztor - I was very pleasantly surprised at how well he filled in. This guy is a keeper with upside ahead.
B. Hartline - Experienced veteran we can line up inside or outside.
T. Gabriel/A. Hawkins - I don't want to keep both of these but I'd settle for 1 of them at least at this time. Both guys work really hard but they're just too small to get excited about. One of them is a knee-high slot receiver that gives our QB the task of throwing slant passes downward. The other hasn't been the same since that DB gave him post traumatic stress syndrome following that violent collision on the bubble screen. How many TDs have these guys combined for in 2 years? Keep 1 and upgrade the other.
C. Shaw - Very likable kid with a good football IQ as well as great ability to escape pressure. His last year in the SEC - he had a killer good TD-INT ratio that was something like 24:1. I remember Brian Sipe wasn't immediate but when we kept him around long enough - he had an MVP caliber season in him reminding us that was a great idea. Shaw can at least be a good idea.
T. Coons - When his kicks weren't blocked - he was pretty freakin reliable especially considering he was only a rookie. I wasted a lot of time worrying about the place kicker position last off season.
A. Lee - Another reliable foot for our STs. We're in good hands, I mean feet, I mean....
C. Hughlett - Long Snapper. That felt like I was missing words. Long Rattler power-drills Hot Snapper. Okay
J. Haden - Looking forward to seeing him healthy again. Hard to argue with how reliable he's been prior to 2015.
T. Gipson - Would love to keep this formerly undrafted FA. Maybe the departure of the front office he felt didn't respect his value gives us a chance for him to reconsider any previous resentment? Maybe?
T. Williams - If we can get a pass rush quicker than 30 Mississippi - he might not look his age out there.
K.Williams - He has displayed some pretty good cover skills especially considering he was undrafted. I wish he was a little more durable though.
C. Gaines - He was better than I thought he'd be. It'll be nice to see what he looks like with a year under his belt.
I. Campbell - I liked him in limited observation.
I. Ekpre-Olomu - Can't wait to see this kid.
D. Whitner - While I wasn't thrilled with him last year - he was still leading us in tackles before he got injured.
J. Poyer - Reliable depth at Safety.
P. Desir - This kid went from looking like he was improving to an audition cut short. Hard to learn from the mistakes of inexperience especially if one isn't given the chance to right?
J. Bademosi - He may not be one of my favorite DBs to see out there defending the pass; but he made the Pro Bowl as a gunner on STs. That says enough about the inner chest of this undrafted kid.
D. Shelton - I'm still excited about this guy believe it or not. He just needs to get his pad height down more consistently. Totally doable.
R. Starks - Despite some crack pipe decisions at the worst of times, this guy looks like he can give us some valuable reps in rotation.
J. Hughes III - Prior to 2015 I thought he was easily the best 2 gap player on our defensive line. I didn't get a very good read on him in 2015 to be honest so I'll stick with my gut. That said, the acro for Flugel's Abs is FLABS.
J. Meder - This former Ashland Eagle gives us quality reps and hurried some passers. Very pleasant surprise to me at least.
C. Robertson - Had a strong close filling in for Dansby in 2014 and he wasn'tbad in 2015.
K. Dansby - He scored on 2 different INTs reminding me what ideal first step instinct can do for a guy especially in hook zones.
D. Bryant - Not that this means much but Jimmy O'Neil said he had a great season.
A. Bryant - Made a nice recovery from his injury and brought some heat off the edge. I just hope that arrest late in the year isn't a bad sign about what's ahead.
X. Cooper - I think this guy is going to become what we want him to be once he gets enough reps and NFL strength and conditioning under his belt.
N. Orchard - Showed some real good signs like staying home and not biting on the fake that often sucked our edge in on the other side. And how about this? He's a pretty good tackler.
C. Kirksey - I'd like to see more consistency out of him. Then again, that goes for a lot of guys on our defense. It would be interesting to see if he's a better fit in the defense on deck.
P. Kruger - Wasn't very happy with him in 2015 but the front office we've been sentenced to hasn't left us any experienced alternatives.
This is my "Don't let the Door Hit Ya in the Ass on the way out" group:
Josh Gordon - The idea of him is way better than the reality folks. He was on 2 or 3 different college teams but got on the field for only pone of them. He has been with us for 4 years and suspended for significant parts of 3 of those seasons. If people are thinking he only had 1 or 2 beers the last time - is it possible to still have alcohol in one's urine 24 hours after consuming only 2 beers? Let's say I got that wrong even, he still put himself exactly where he couldn't afford to be if football was really the priority he keeps telling us it is. What gives anyone the confidence he's finally going to get it? The sad thing about this is I never got the impression he was a bad kid or an unlikable kid. He just isn't very smart and the brother he's close to loves to party. He had 3 strikes in college and at least 3 strikes in Cleveland. 1 more strike puts his career in long term park. Why not get something in return by sweetening the Jerry Jones package to include Gordon with Manziel?
Bark Mingo - He never looked compatible with Horton's plans the first time so I don't see it changing. Even worse, Horton's memories of him playing through a separated shoulder includes a lot of bad tackling. Joe Banner thought he was drafting us Jamie Collins and we ended up with tackles like Joan Collins. I liked his motor and saw some good coverage skills. Seemed like a nice kid too. Maybe he just needs a better situation than Cleveland had.
Justin Gilbert - When his previous coaches bashed his attitude and work ethic while plenty of college film showed a guy that didn't like to tackle people - THANK GOD WE'RE ADDING 2 HARVARD INTELLECTS TO OUR FRONT OFFICE.
Johnny Blutarsky-Manziel - Party on kid.
Austin Davis - This guy looked dumber than a box of rocks when there was a time urgency factor at the end of the half and end of the game. Who was the goof ball that thought this unemployed QB was the answer to all our prayers? I found the id ten t form for that squid and it looks like this: ID10T.
Dwayne Bowe - Cut his ass and pick up a guy like Lenz that would be happy to play at NFL minimum wage.
Tank Carder - He's a dime a dozen that didn't appear to make his move to more playing time.
I agree. We can't totally turn the roster over in one year, so next year, if we make good additions this off season, some of the guys who barely make the roster this year will be upgraded. I also believe that different utilization of players, particularly on defense, will help in appraisals.
Good thread Tom.
Mike
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Rosterology?
Oh roster.
Rosterology?
Oh roster.You saw my screen name and the first thing that came to your mind was Dyslexic Shakespeare. God bless ya Mr Me-Aggie!
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Rosterology?
Oh roster.You saw my screen name and the first thing that came to your mind was Dyslexic Shakespeare. God bless ya Mr Me-Aggie!
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Johnny on. Johnny off. Johnny on. Johnny off.Wax on. Wax off. Wax on. Wax off.
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Don't be a Settler & move on from cable & upgrade to direct tv. No wonder jimmy hired a analytics firm to get $$$/talent figured out. Aged under outrageous contracts imo. Starks ($ for nothing & wiffs & flags for free). Kruger, T. Williams, Whitner & Bow$. Paid Top Draft Picks in Manziel, Gilbert, Erving. Ready to move on short list would include Poyer or Bademosi, Hughes, Robertson, Mingo & A. Bryant. Dray, Hawk nor Gabe were no better than Darius Jennings imo.
You could easily add Dansby to the list. Although more than serviceable the price tag is way too high. But hey the Browns had cap money and Dansby isn't a dummy.Don't be a Settler & move on from cable & upgrade to direct tv. No wonder jimmy hired a analytics firm to get $$$/talent figured out. Aged under outrageous contracts imo. Starks ($ for nothing & wiffs & flags for free). Kruger, T. Williams, Whitner & Bow$. Paid Top Draft Picks in Manziel, Gilbert, Erving. Ready to move on short list would include Poyer or Bademosi, Hughes, Robertson, Mingo & A. Bryant. Dray, Hawk nor Gabe were no better than Darius Jennings imo.
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None of the non-OL are even serviceable as a blocker today. TE/FB/HB all need serious upgrades.
Starks is terrible. Is Mingo fast enough for ST/ backup SS duty?
Gordon could be useful if serious.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Thanks for the invite, Flugs... Offense first.
- I'm in on Gordon and his return to #1 WR status. Don't see Pryor working out. Gabe feels vulnerable.
- Dray had an off year; can bounce back, but is no H-back.
- I think Mack and Schwartz are gone. Reason for Mack is obvious. I think Schwartz will be too expensive for an OT with suspect LT potential.
- Erving to RT feels like the path of least resistance to him contributing.
WR - Gordon, Benjamin, Gabriel, Draftee
RT - Schwartz, Erving, PS/UFA
RG - Greco, Draftee/UDFA
C - Mack, Draftee, Greco
LG - Bitonio, Pazstor,
LT - Thomas
TE - Barnidge, Dray, Bibbs
WR - Draftee, Hartline, Pryor
H-back - UDFA/UFA, Bibbs, Watson Dray or
Slot Receiver - Benjamin/Hawkins/UDFA/Gabriel, Draftee
RB - Crowell, Johnson, Watson, UDFA
QB - McCown, Draftee, Davis Shaw
- Nick Martin out of ND floats my Center boat, but he's a 2nd round guy at best and might slip into Day 1.
- There's a couple Day 3/UDFA OG candidates I'm looking at. Dahl impressed me at the Sr. Bowl; he's a Day 3 OG.
- There are always UDFA RBs and WRs you can cast a net for. If analytics are going to help anywhere...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Tom the only one I disagree with you about is Gordon. If he's managed to stay clean for a year- he deserves a final shot. He's cheap, and we certainly can't trust him. I'm not ready to send league leading wr yards away for a song.
I respect your opinion Larry. I certainly didn't get to my opinion until I had seen too much evidence that we can't ever get this guy on the field regardless of excuses an alibis. You know that fool me once, fool me twice thing? I even gave him an extra one of those after he couldn't get that right in college either my man. Therefore, my pov is we wouldn't be sending a league leading WR packing - just the memory of that from 3 calendar years ago. We would be looking for exchange value for a guy we haven't been able to get on the field, which helps us bury such a distraction.
Even worse, the next time he messes up whether it's just 1 or 2 beers again or being with the wrong company as usual - his career goes into permanent park. This league leader you speak of dates all the way back to 2013 (as we head to 2016), which was about the last time Dwayne Bowe was relevant. In 2014, the version of Josh Gordon I saw showed up not caring enough to know the playbook or getting to team meetings on time after vowing we would see the best of Josh Gordon when he got his next opportunity. A team that was 7-4 (after his first game back) ended up finishing 7-9 with 5 consecutive losses. Actions speak louder than words to the extent he's turned down 7 figure salaries to continue to hang out with the wrong company.
My take is Jerry Jones has the God complex with the mindset that fans in Texas welcome their former college heroes to be the most interested owner in a package of Manziel and Gordon. He's taken in a lot of party animals over the years dating back to the Cocaine Cowboys by showing everyone his inventory of Superbowl rings when they question his decisions about character within. My guess is the reason Manziel wasn't already sent packing isn't because the intellect we now have in the front office think this time he's REALLY going to prioritize football. I think they feel they can put together a package deal that Jerry just won't be able to say no to which does 3 things for us on draft day:
1) Keeps him from trading up ahead of us for the QB we want.
2) Gets us some additional picks on players that will be more willing to prioritize their NFL opportunity than Manziel and Gordon have been willing to thus far (addition by subtraction plus addition of draft picks).
3) We can finally stop holding the idea of drafting help at WR hostage to the stale idea of "yeah but we already have Josh Gordon."
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Tramon Williams is underrated. he was targeted like CRAZY against steep competition. i'm a big fan.
if all our db's can stay healthy and Gilbert is at least avg LOOK OUT.
Barnidge can be our Heiden, i hope they add a blue chip receiving TE...or at least a "Jordan Cameron".
Gordon being permitted to return this year would open up a lot of options. i agree w all of you on Benj, Gabe, Hawk, and Hart but the madden in me wants Pryor to be the Browns player who Greg Little couldn't be.
when i think about the mingos...shelton, gilbert, erving...richardson, weeden, manziel...all 1st rd picks that sucked. even with taylor, mack, haden and thomas we sucked. give someone those 11 1st rd picks again along with hindsight and that team is probably playing in the SB next week. that's a 1st rd pick at every position on an offense or defense. regardless...if analytics and football guy's instinct says stay the course or fire sale, i'm in either way.
never thought i'd be saying this--i've loved the 3-4 forever--but i'm getting a little sick of it. that and ineffective hard to personel tweener schemes and the hybrids that seem too complex for all but vet players to grasp. it doesn't have to be vanilla and i really like wrinkles like how our D walked around and delayed getting set all the time...it just sucks not having success and continuity.i really dont care as long as it works and players that fit the scheme can be found. i can't remember the last time i had confidence in a Browns defense. Gocong's three goal line stops in a row vs Pgh was so foreign it left me dumb. i remember i even forgot to cheer and just stared blankly, confused who that could actually be or how it was happening. -
Tour, do you really think Davis beats out Shaw?
I don't see it - Shaw has that "it".
Davis is something more akin to
weeden. Never will have "it"
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Regarding mccown I'm meh on him. He played well enough when he wasn't concussed which, if you recall, happened halfway through the first game
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Reluctant about giving Erving one more year? The guy was said to play any OL position, but he was way less qualified at guard. He was also a rookie. Yes, he got his ass blown apart many times last season, and yes...his play was concerning. However, it got a tad better at the end, and Erving is a worker. Give him another year in the weight room, and we'll see how it goes next year.
I'm so excited that Joe Thomas appears to want to stay with us. I couldn't believe I read that article which stated something to the effect of "he's all in" or something. We were dangerously close to losing Schwartz, Mack, and Thomas. Now, technically we still COULD, but I have a feeling Schwartz and Thomas aren't going anywhere. Mack will leave, and I can't blame him. The only two things that MIGHT tempt him to stay, would be his enormous salary and his friendship with the other OL. If Mack opts out to sign another deal, it's unlikely that he'll be able to match what he's making now. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. If Mack leaves, we have Erving. He struggled most of the year, and his play was alarming, but I want to see him play another position after a year with the strength people.
I like Hartline, but I'd like to upgrade him. We can keep him, but I'd kill for more firepower.
The defense is what really scares me. We don't have a viable pass rush, and finding those guys in the draft or FA is so tough to do. It's time to get rid of Justin Gilbert, and probably Whitner (Whiffner?). Sounds like Gipson is gone too, which sucks. So we need a corner, at least one safety, a sack artist, and lord knows what else. And it sounds like we're using the first pick on a QB, so we're going to have to nail the second round if we go defense.
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Oh, one more thing. We need a new kicker, and I don't even think it's debatable. Kicking 50+ yard FG's in the NFL is a must, and if our kicker can't get it high enough, it's a problem. Can it be fixed? I have no clue, as I know next to nothing about kicking FG's. But there are always free lance kickers out there, and I think we should at LEAST bring in another for a competition. I love Coons' accuracy, but there is obviously something wrong. Now, I do realize there were issues with our FG blocking unit, but still....our coaches didn't trust Coons, and there was a reason for that.
Always viewing football through my garnet and gold glasses, I have to say that FSU's kicker is one of the best college kickers I've ever seen...
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About 6 months early for this discussion. We need to see who we get as FAs, who we lose, who we draft.
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Tour, do you really think Davis beats out Shaw?
I don't see it - Shaw has that "it".
Davis is something more akin to
weeden. Never will have "it"
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Reluctant about giving Erving one more year? The guy was said to play any OL position, but he was way less qualified at guard. He was also a rookie. Yes, he got his ass blown apart many times last season, and yes...his play was concerning. However, it got a tad better at the end, and Erving is a worker. Give him another year in the weight room, and we'll see how it goes next year.
I'm so excited that Joe Thomas appears to want to stay with us. I couldn't believe I read that article which stated something to the effect of "he's all in" or something. We were dangerously close to losing Schwartz, Mack, and Thomas. Now, technically we still COULD, but I have a feeling Schwartz and Thomas aren't going anywhere. Mack will leave, and I can't blame him. The only two things that MIGHT tempt him to stay, would be his enormous salary and his friendship with the other OL. If Mack opts out to sign another deal, it's unlikely that he'll be able to match what he's making now. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. If Mack leaves, we have Erving. He struggled most of the year, and his play was alarming, but I want to see him play another position after a year with the strength people.
I like Hartline, but I'd like to upgrade him. We can keep him, but I'd kill for more firepower.
The defense is what really scares me. We don't have a viable pass rush, and finding those guys in the draft or FA is so tough to do. It's time to get rid of Justin Gilbert, and probably Whitner (Whiffner?). Sounds like Gipson is gone too, which sucks. So we need a corner, at least one safety, a sack artist, and lord knows what else. And it sounds like we're using the first pick on a QB, so we're going to have to nail the second round if we go defense.
Reluctant about giving Erving one more year? The guy was said to play any OL position, but he was way less qualified at guard. He was also a rookie. Yes, he got his ass blown apart many times last season, and yes...his play was concerning. However, it got a tad better at the end, and Erving is a worker. Give him another year in the weight room, and we'll see how it goes next year.
JR, I liked your points but this one seemed strange considering my cut and paste of what you replied to below in italics. Did I really need to add the NFL isn't the ACC when we talk about being able to play 5 different oline positions?
C. Erving - With some degree of reluctance, I have to give him 1 more year. I'm just not sure we can correct his leverage issues vrs many of the powerful/stout frames he will face. Joe Thomas doesn't seem to think we need to panic about him so let's see what the experience and off season conditioning does to better this story.
What led to my concern more than anything is Offensive Guards aren't usually going against the taller, lighter/leaner guys that are naturally easier to establish better leverage against. They're with facing the girthier powerhouses ranging from 330-360 lbs lining up across from OGs. Consequently a guy that can't bend well like say like a similar built McQuistan got rag dolled inside here in Cleveland while Seattle felt he was a very effective fill in starter at Tackle for their Superbowl Championship Team. What would be the major difference? How about outweighing most of his opponents (DEs/OLBs) by about 30-50 lbs? Most DEs range from about 6'4-6'7" so it wasn't as much of a natural disadvantage as he found inside from a leverage/pad height thang. Makes a difference. While I'm at it here, do you know what OLBs/Edge Rushers tended to give Joe Thomas the biggest challenges? Elvis Dumerville and James Harrison because they do the best job of getting up under Joe.
While I agree power was part of Erving's issue, not being able to bend seemed far bigger. That means absolute forfeiture of one's legs/base. That's why coaches love Okie drills so they can tell whoever loses - you surrendered your base with sloppy pad height. It's also an ideal time to remind players that David doesn't always need a sling shot to kick Goliath's ass. This was usually the reason Erving was getting tossed like a salad regardless of his likable qualities of effort and enthusiasm. I have to agree with Tour's point that RT might end up being his best niche.
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Tramon Williams is underrated. he was targeted like CRAZY against steep competition. i'm a big fan.
if all our db's can stay healthy and Gilbert is at least avg LOOK OUT.
Barnidge can be our Heiden, i hope they add a blue chip receiving TE...or at least a "Jordan Cameron".
Gordon being permitted to return this year would open up a lot of options. i agree w all of you on Benj, Gabe, Hawk, and Hart but the madden in me wants Pryor to be the Browns player who Greg Little couldn't be.
when i think about the mingos...shelton, gilbert, erving...richardson, weeden, manziel...all 1st rd picks that sucked. even with taylor, mack, haden and thomas we sucked. give someone those 11 1st rd picks again along with hindsight and that team is probably playing in the SB next week. that's a 1st rd pick at every position on an offense or defense. regardless...if analytics and football guy's instinct says stay the course or fire sale, i'm in either way.
never thought i'd be saying this--i've loved the 3-4 forever--but i'm getting a little sick of it. that and ineffective hard to personel tweener schemes and the hybrids that seem too complex for all but vet players to grasp. it doesn't have to be vanilla and i really like wrinkles like how our D walked around and delayed getting set all the time...it just sucks not having success and continuity.i really dont care as long as it works and players that fit the scheme can be found. i can't remember the last time i had confidence in a Browns defense. Gocong's three goal line stops in a row vs Pgh was so foreign it left me dumb. i remember i even forgot to cheer and just stared blankly, confused who that could actually be or how it was happening.Tramon Williams is underrated. he was targeted like CRAZY against steep competition. i'm a big fan.
if all our db's can stay healthy and Gilbert is at least avg LOOK OUT.
Barnidge can be our Heiden, i hope they add a blue chip receiving TE...or at least a "Jordan Cameron".
Gordon being permitted to return this year would open up a lot of options. i agree w all of you on Benj, Gabe, Hawk, and Hart but the madden in me wants Pryor to be the Browns player who Greg Little couldn't be.
when i think about the mingos...shelton, gilbert, erving...richardson, weeden, manziel...all 1st rd picks that sucked. even with taylor, mack, haden and thomas we sucked. give someone those 11 1st rd picks again along with hindsight and that team is probably playing in the SB next week. that's a 1st rd pick at every position on an offense or defense. regardless...if analytics and football guy's instinct says stay the course or fire sale, i'm in either way.
never thought i'd be saying this--i've loved the 3-4 forever--but i'm getting a little sick of it. that and ineffective hard to personel tweener schemes and the hybrids that seem too complex for all but vet players to grasp. it doesn't have to be vanilla and i really like wrinkles like how our D walked around and delayed getting set all the time...it just sucks not having success and continuity.i really dont care as long as it works and players that fit the scheme can be found. i can't remember the last time i had confidence in a Browns defense. Gocong's three goal line stops in a row vs Pgh was so foreign it left me dumb. i remember i even forgot to cheer and just stared blankly, confused who that could actually be or how it was happening.Well done!
. That just made my day complete, Thanks Flugel
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