Jonathan Paul Manziel

Westside Steve

Also as to the potential I have always considered the fact that his first year was impeded to a great extent by his own arrogance and lack of work ethic. The second season he took seriously and worked very hard learn the system and made huge leaps. Unless you want to call your precious Mike Pettine a liar.

Part of coaching 22 year old kids is dealing with that kind of shit. I'm sure Johnny expected high praise and a starting job for the effort he put in. Effort that doesn't come naturally to him so he felt he deserves praise and a starting job. I also don't think coach liked him in the first place and hated to start him even when he was forced to. I think that was counterproductive to the kids development and to the team.

Here's my music example. let's say I get hired in a Key West club and take long breaks, show up late for the gigs and play the same shit everyday. Club owner has me working the 4 o'clock show. I kind of thought since they hired me from a place where I was King shit I should be doing the 8 o'clock show.

Well I bust my ass I learned a dozen new songs I'm there on time and put everything into my performance. Still the bar manager doesn't like me because the owner of the bar had seen me at Put in Bay and was the one who insisted on hiring me. The manager makes it clear that as long as he's in charge I'm doing the 4 o'clock show.

I would certainly be pissed off and especially if I were a younger man probably let it affect my attitude. Especially because I believe, & I probably would do really well at the prime 8 o'clock show.

WSS

gftChris

So it's all Mike Pettine's fault? Manziel pisses away his first year, then when he's finally looking like he might have potential, decides to piss it away again, and for that reason, we should give him a pass? I'm sorry, but you expect a certain level of professionalism from your players.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that Pettine was on board with him starting the end of the season after McCown got injured, but then what does Manziel do? Exactly the opposite of what was asked of him. "Johnny, we're making you the starter for the next six games whether Josh is injured or not. Show us what you can do on the field, and keep a low profile off it" "Hey thanks boss!" "Hey everybody, I'm gonna start, let's go party our asses off!"

I really don't get why you're defending him so staunchly. He has shown flashes of NFL potential, but, as has been said many times, he would have to be a lot, lot better to warrant such off-field distractions.

Westside Steve

Don't let your emotions run away with you Chris, I blame Johnny for the first year.

I blame coach Mike Pettine for most of what went on in your number to where Johnny wasn't even a factor. We got good quarterback play out of Josh McCown and Johnny when he stepped in. The team was still 3 + 13.

And as I've said the off the field stuff does it warrant all this outrage.

WSS

Westside Steve

And again being photographed in a nightclub ON AN OFF DAY had nothing to do with his success or failure on the field. Coach decided to teach him a lesson and throw away a couple games with Austin Davis. Billy didn't clean his room kids so nobody gets to go to Cedar Point. Thanks dad.

WSS

gftChris

Awww, the 'emotions' retort has come out - been hanging out with Cal recently? Your infatuation has been reaching 'Poetic' levels recently. I'll grant you, in isolation, none of the things he's done are earth shatteringly bad. But string them together and it paints a picture of a spoilt kid who can't handle not getting his way.

What has he done to imbue such loyalty in you? We won two games with him - against the titans and 49ers. In both cases our D won us the game, or maybe you don't remember us getting a combined 16 sacks in those two games? He made a nice throw at the start and end of the TN game, and was distinctly average in between. Against SF he looked distinctly average, while his running backs went for 230 yards and a couple of scores.

So I ask again, why the staunch defence?

MasterDog

Word is he'll be cut.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

Westside Steve

My infatuation as you call it is just because I'm in the minority. And every anti Johnny, anti Browns negative ass hole spends half their day screeching about my new show and calling anybody who supports the kid a cum guzzler a faggot etcetera etcetera.

And why my defense? Am I the only guy who's sick of reshuffling the deck every two years shitcanning the last regimes guys and going four + 12 or three and 13?

That appeals to you Chris?

If Weeb Eubamk would have taken Mike Pettine' route with Joe Namath we wouldn't remember their names today.

Plus I take it more seriously because it affects my life for over 16 weeks out of the year, well more than any group of ass clown politicians can in 4 years.

WSS

Westside Steve

By the way Chris, the highest paid defense in the league should have played that way every fucking week.

WSS

gftChris

I think you have me mistaken for someone who thinks Mike pettine can do no wrong.

No, blowing everything up every two years doesn't appeal to me, which is why I wanted to keep pettine. I wanted stability in the organisation, and a head coach is a bit more important in that regard than a backup QB. I was fully on the manziel express when he was keeping his nose clean and drug free while looking half competent. After the TN game I thought hey, maybe this kid could be good if he continues to work hard and stay out of trouble. He did for a while, but then fell off the clean wagon quite spectacularly.

I suspect he needs some alone time to figure out his priorities, and maybe he goes elsewhere and is productive, but it just won't be in Cleveland. He's lost the respect of a lotto important people and players, so it's difficult to see us winning with him as starter, and if he's not starting, he's not worth keeping around.

Westside Steve

Frankly I think we could have given every head coach and quarterback combination another year.

Blowing things up hasn't worked so far.

But again if the kid has the talent to be successful elsewhere he's got the talent to be successful here and that's the job of our coaching staff just the same as it's the job of the coaching staff on any other team.

But it's also the job of that coaching staff to make sure the defense plays well.

WSS

Unsympathetic

@westside-steve said:
It is a fact, you just won't admit it because it shows you for the ass hole that you are.

Keep whining, loser. You've got nothing and you know it, and because you have zero fact you resort only to personal insults.

Not only does the insult not "prove" anything.. it actually shows that you've got absolutely zip to back up your vague assertion.

Show these magical "facts" asserting what Manziel "proved" - or they don't exist.

You want to make a case for him? Then make it. It's on you to state your hypothesis and show evidence. Unless, of course, you as a person are just another worthless liar. And that's fine, if that's the best you can do!

bbedward

@hoorta said:

That's collusion, plain & simple. You're not allowed to talk to a player under contract with another team until- pick a date. That date is not now.

Probably is more just drunk Johnny or his people telling people that to try to get people to talk about something other than being searched down by helicopter.

Westside Steve

@unsympathetic said:

Keep whining, loser. You've got nothing and you know it, and because you have zero fact you resort only to personal insults.

Not only does the insult not "prove" anything.. it actually shows that you've got absolutely zip to back up your vague assertion.

Show these magical "facts" asserting what Manziel "proved" - or they don't exist.

Insults? I think no matter which side of this debate people are on you would rank near the top of the negative ass hole list.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

I'm guessing you're a Steelers fan or a troll but maybe just a prick.

WSS

Westside Steve

@bbedward said:
Probably is more just drunk Johnny or his people telling people that to try to get people to talk about something other than being searched down by helicopter.

Or just maybe he reads the Internet, watches TV or listen to the radio where that kind of talk is repeated over and over whether or not it substantiated.

WSS

Unsympathetic

@westside-steve said:

Insults? I think no matter which side of this debate people are on you would rank near the top of the negative ass hole list.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

Other people want to see exactly what you're basing your support for Boyziel on. I know nobody disagrees with that.

Other people also think you're more negative than me.

This game is fun!

Still waiting for that proof of Manziel's talent.

Manzier

Having his team give up on him is probably the best thing that could happen to him. It worked for some others and woke them up. Maybe it will work for Johnny. He needs to be away from Cleveland and Cleveland needs him to go away. Problem solved.

bbedward

@unsympathetic said:
Still waiting for that proof of Manziel's talent.

I bet he can chug Das Boot and execute the turn perfectly. That's a talent.

Westside Steve

@unsympathetic said:

Other people want to see exactly what you're basing your support for Boyziel on. I know nobody disagrees with that.

Other people also think you're more negative than me.

This game is fun!

Still waiting for that proof of Manziel's talent.

Well you can't have that proof because first of all coach kept him on the bench for punishment and second of all last year we were the worst team in the league. No matter who played quarterback.

So if you say he made absolutely no progress and is completely unfit to play in the NFL then who can argue with you unless you start somewhere?

I haven't seen any sports writers or sports pundits express that sentiment though.

WSS

gftChris

@westside-steve said:

Well you can't have that proof because first of all coach kept him on the bench for punishment and second of all last year we were the worst team in the league. No matter who played quarterback.

So if you say he made absolutely no progress and is completely unfit to play in the NFL then who can argue with you unless you start somewhere?

I haven't seen any sports writers or sports pundits express that sentiment though.

WSS

Progress isn't sufficient. Put me in an NFL training camp for two years and I'll make a ton of progress. And do my best not to get shitfaced at every opportunity.

Plenty of people have said he's not good enough. But if you're looking for statistics, his completion rate is 57%, his TD:INT ratio is 7:7, basically all of his stats are lower than every other QB in the league. Even Brian Hoyer :S

Manzier

@unsympathetic said:
Still waiting for that proof of Manziel's talent.

@westside-steve said:
Well you can't have that proof because first of all coach kept him on the bench for punishment and second of all last year we were the worst team in the league. No matter who played quarterback.

Derek Carr looked pretty good on a 3-13 team. You dont need a good team to play well or look like a pro. Bad teams everywhere are full of great players and we all know who they are.