Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Well you can't have that proof because first of all coach kept him on the bench for punishment and second of all last year we were the worst team in the league. No matter who played quarterback.
So if you say he made absolutely no progress and is completely unfit to play in the NFL then who can argue with you unless you start somewhere?
I haven't seen any sports writers or sports pundits express that sentiment though.
WSS
Progress isn't sufficient. Put me in an NFL training camp for two years and I'll make a ton of progress. And do my best not to get shitfaced at every opportunity.
Plenty of people have said he's not good enough. But if you're looking for statistics, his completion rate is 57%, his TD:INT ratio is 7:7, basically all of his stats are lower than every other QB in the league. Even Brian Hoyer :S
Progress isn't sufficient. Put me in an NFL training camp for two years and I'll make a ton of progress. And do my best not to get shitfaced at every opportunity.
Plenty of people have said he's not good enough. But if you're looking for statistics, his completion rate is 57%, his TD:INT ratio is 7:7, basically all of his stats are lower than every other QB in the league. Even Brian Hoyer :S
#42 in completion percentage among 44 who qualified.
Lots of work to be done with his game at his next stop, regardless of whether he becomes a dedicated professional or not.
Zombo
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And I share your concerns Mark. I just think he could be the guy. I may be wrong but we will never know.
WSS
You seem to be totally alone in that viewpoint. Let's see if ANY other team picks him up (I doubt it) and let's see how he does there. If he turns his life around, I'll gladly "eat crow". I wish him the best, I REALLY do, but I think his life is headed for tragedy if someone doesn't reach him soon.
You seem to be totally alone in that viewpoint. Let's see if ANY other team picks him up (I doubt it) and let's see how he does there. If he turns his life around, I'll gladly "eat crow". I wish him the best, I REALLY do, but I think his life is headed for tragedy if someone doesn't reach him soon.
Agree with this 100%. He has zero respect for the Browns, zero respect for the fans, zero respect for anyone but himself. I won't be surprised if he doesn't show up when he's called in to Berea to be released by the Browns. Whatever talent he has will never translate to bonafide accomplishments because he continuously shoots his NFL self in the foot.
I can only hope getting cut will be his wake-up call.
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I would be shocked if he didn't get picked up by anyone else - after all, Brandon Weeden got a job, and someone even traded for Colt McCoy. Dallas is the obvious contender along with SF.
Who knows, he may well turn his life around somewhere else, and in a different city. I hope he does. But we're not going anywhere any time soon with him as starter, and he's not worth the distraction as a backup. So cut bait.
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All of that may be true including your psychiatric evaluation of me, but it didn't have an effect on his performance during the 2015 season.
WSS
All of that may be true including your psychiatric evaluation of me, but it didn't have an effect on his performance during the 2015 season.
WSS
I'm sure it did.
But actually if you take the partying excuse away, his progress from awful to "meh" looks worse.
Whoever is going to to take a chance on him is going to gamble on him getting it together and becoming a dedicated professional and student of the game.
That's the mystery of Johnny: IF this guy was 100% dedicated to his craft and a good teammate/leader, COULD he potentially be a Top 15 starter in this league? Probably not ... but if there is a glimmer there, that is where a team will take a shot.
The Browns, with a new coach and a new direction aren't going to deal with him anymore to find out. It seems a very sound decision. I am ready for Hue Jack City ... wouldn't be fair to saddle him with Johnny.
Zombo
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I would be shocked if he didn't get picked up by anyone else - after all, Brandon Weeden got a job, and someone even traded for Colt McCoy. Dallas is the obvious contender along with SF.
Who knows, he may well turn his life around somewhere else, and in a different city. I hope he does. But we're not going anywhere any time soon with him as starter, and he's not worth the distraction as a backup. So cut bait.
I would be shocked if he didn't get picked up by anyone else - after all, Brandon Weeden got a job, and someone even traded for Colt McCoy. Dallas is the obvious contender along with SF.
Who knows, he may well turn his life around somewhere else, and in a different city. I hope he does. But we're not going anywhere any time soon with him as starter, and he's not worth the distraction as a backup. So cut bait.
I'll be surprised if he DOES get picked up by anyone else. Weeden is a crappy QB, but at least he isn't going to embarrass your team (errant shovel passes not withstanding). I don't think anyone is going to risk it with him unless he turns it around first. Given his regression after already going to rehab last year, I'm not optimistic.
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I would be shocked if he didn't get picked up by anyone else - after all, Brandon Weeden got a job, and someone even traded for Colt McCoy. Dallas is the obvious contender along with SF.
Who knows, he may well turn his life around somewhere else, and in a different city. I hope he does. But we're not going anywhere any time soon with him as starter, and he's not worth the distraction as a backup. So cut bait.
I'll be surprised if he DOES get picked up by anyone else. Weeden is a crappy QB, but at least he isn't going to embarrass your team (errant shovel passes not withstanding). I don't think anyone is going to risk it with him unless he turns it around first. Given his regression after already going to rehab last year, I'm not optimistic.
I'll be surprised if he DOES get picked up by anyone else. Weeden is a crappy QB, but at least he isn't going to embarrass your team (errant shovel passes not withstanding). I don't think anyone is going to risk it with him unless he turns it around first. Given his regression after already going to rehab last year, I'm not optimistic.
Someone will fall in love with him, he'll charm the right people and say the right thing in interviews, when coaches ask him "are your partying days behind you?" "oh yes sir, absolutely, one hundred percent in the past"
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Z, I think my scenario works okay though I understand the golfer tennis player hook. In this bar the servers and bartenders depend on me, and even though the manager is pissed off that I was down the street the night before drinking at a competitor's bar or whatever the crowd still likes me better when I'm allowed to work.
Maybe the manager finds out that I was making out with his girlfriend the night before so he takes the 1 o'clock guy, who blows, and give him my slot. Everybody loses.
If I hadn't shown up for a gig and we had dead and that's one thing but it's my job to entertain the customers even on a slow night. And if I keep playing regularly more and more people begin to show up and I get a better handle on that crowd.
(of course with the real Westside Steve and John Meehan in a beer joint I can't imagine the profits wouldn't be substantial!)
WSS
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All of that may be true including your psychiatric evaluation of me, but it didn't have an effect on his performance during the 2015 season.
WSS
I'm sure it did.
But actually if you take the partying excuse away, his progress from awful to "meh" looks worse.
Whoever is going to to take a chance on him is going to gamble on him getting it together and becoming a dedicated professional and student of the game.
That's the mystery of Johnny: IF this guy was 100% dedicated to his craft and a good teammate/leader, COULD he potentially be a Top 15 starter in this league? Probably not ... but if there is a glimmer there, that is where a team will take a shot.
The Browns, with a new coach and a new direction aren't going to deal with him anymore to find out. It seems a very sound decision. I am ready for Hue Jack City ... wouldn't be fair to saddle him with Johnny.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I'm sure it did.
But actually if you take the partying excuse away, his progress from awful to "meh" looks worse.
Whoever is going to to take a chance on him is going to gamble on him getting it together and becoming a dedicated professional and student of the game.
That's the mystery of Johnny: IF this guy was 100% dedicated to his craft and a good teammate/leader, COULD he potentially be a Top 15 starter in this league? Probably not ... but if there is a glimmer there, that is where a team will take a shot.
The Browns, with a new coach and a new direction aren't going to deal with him anymore to find out. It seems a very sound decision. I am ready for Hue Jack City ... wouldn't be fair to saddle him with Johnny.
Zombo
We shall see. Seems to me that if everybody on the team was as dedicated as you believe they were we'd have won more games last season regardless a quarterback.
But if you dismiss Johnnys progress since the first Cincinnati game was so dismal I guess next season any progreys by coach Jackson will get the same luke warm reception?
WSS
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And I share your concerns Mark. I just think he could be the guy. I may be wrong but we will never know.
WSS
Which is why you and I can discuss this topic, because I respect your opinion and you at least have the ability to recognize that he's fucked up plenty in his short time with the Browns. The "fan boys" think everything he does on the field is great and everything off the field doesn't matter.
Which is why you and I can discuss this topic, because I respect your opinion and you at least have the ability to recognize that he's fucked up plenty in his short time with the Browns. The "fan boys" think everything he does on the field is great and everything off the field doesn't matter.
Actually Mark if you visit the texags.com website you will find that JF is still regarded for what he brought to A&M, but realistically see his self-destructive NFL stint as a failure thus far, primarily due to his off-field problems.
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I'll be surprised if he DOES get picked up by anyone else. Weeden is a crappy QB, but at least he isn't going to embarrass your team (errant shovel passes not withstanding). I don't think anyone is going to risk it with him unless he turns it around first. Given his regression after already going to rehab last year, I'm not optimistic.
Someone will fall in love with him, he'll charm the right people and say the right thing in interviews, when coaches ask him "are your partying days behind you?" "oh yes sir, absolutely, one hundred percent in the past"
Someone will fall in love with him, he'll charm the right people and say the right thing in interviews, when coaches ask him "are your partying days behind you?" "oh yes sir, absolutely, one hundred percent in the past"
If that happens, at least another team will be the laughing stock of the league for a while.
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Someone will fall in love with him, he'll charm the right people and say the right thing in interviews, when coaches ask him "are your partying days behind you?" "oh yes sir, absolutely, one hundred percent in the past"
If that happens, at least another team will be the laughing stock of the league for a while.
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I'll be surprised if he DOES get picked up by anyone else. Weeden is a crappy QB, but at least he isn't going to embarrass your team (errant shovel passes not withstanding). I don't think anyone is going to risk it with him unless he turns it around first. Given his regression after already going to rehab last year, I'm not optimistic.
Someone will fall in love with him, he'll charm the right people and say the right thing in interviews, when coaches ask him "are your partying days behind you?" "oh yes sir, absolutely, one hundred percent in the past"
Someone will fall in love with him, he'll charm the right people and say the right thing in interviews, when coaches ask him "are your partying days behind you?" "oh yes sir, absolutely, one hundred percent in the past"
They'll offer him a contract that only guarantees him peanuts though.So if he does act up he'll get cut without much penalty for the team.
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Someone will fall in love with him, he'll charm the right people and say the right thing in interviews, when coaches ask him "are your partying days behind you?" "oh yes sir, absolutely, one hundred percent in the past"
They'll offer him a contract that only guarantees him peanuts though.So if he does act up he'll get cut without much penalty for the team.
They'll offer him a contract that only guarantees him peanuts though.So if he does act up he'll get cut without much penalty for the team.
Sure, and we'll still be paying him. Not saying they'll give him anything good, but someone will take him in for a look.
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Zombo said:
I'm sure it did.
But actually if you take the partying excuse away, his progress from awful to "meh" looks worse.
Whoever is going to to take a chance on him is going to gamble on him getting it together and becoming a dedicated professional and student of the game.
That's the mystery of Johnny: IF this guy was 100% dedicated to his craft and a good teammate/leader, COULD he potentially be a Top 15 starter in this league? Probably not ... but if there is a glimmer there, that is where a team will take a shot.
The Browns, with a new coach and a new direction aren't going to deal with him anymore to find out. It seems a very sound decision. I am ready for Hue Jack City ... wouldn't be fair to saddle him with Johnny.
Zombo
We shall see. Seems to me that if everybody on the team was as dedicated as you believe they were we'd have won more games last season regardless a quarterback.
But if you dismiss Johnnys progress since the first Cincinnati game was so dismal I guess next season any progreys by coach Jackson will get the same luke warm reception?
WSS
We shall see. Seems to me that if everybody on the team was as dedicated as you believe they were we'd have won more games last season regardless a quarterback.
But if you dismiss Johnnys progress since the first Cincinnati game was so dismal I guess next season any progreys by coach Jackson will get the same luke warm reception?
WSS
I'm not saying he hasn't progressed from the first Cincy game. I don't think anyone is.
I gave him a complete pass for 2014, going into this year, like it never happened.
But 2015 ... Meh.
Lots of holes in that game, not worth the horsehit.
I feel pretty safe in saying that we can find a better QB that would commit himself to being a Cleveland Brown.
Seems pretty simple to me.
Sorry that we are starting over at the QB position ... but it is Clearly the best option to me. And I guess Jimmy, Hue and all of the Harvard brainiacs too.
Zombo
--BTW First Take about to discuss Johnny on ESPN, should be interesting.
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Sure, and we'll still be paying him. Not saying they'll give him anything good, but someone will take him in for a look.
For a look maybe. Leaf never made another roster. And folks always pull out the Favre card, but he was a 2nd round pick that his team was able to trade for a 1st round pick. So it's not like he was cut. And he obviously had a much much much higher value and upside then Johnny does for the packers to pay a 1st round pick for him. By year 2 he had gotten his shit together, showed up and played great. Johnny is a lot closer to Leaf than he is to Favre. Tebow is a good comparison too. Great college QB who doesnt translate to the NFL. Distraction for his team. TMZ baby. At least he tried and seemed to care. Id rather have Tebow.
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Sure, and we'll still be paying him. Not saying they'll give him anything good, but someone will take him in for a look.
For a look maybe. Leaf never made another roster. And folks always pull out the Favre card, but he was a 2nd round pick that his team was able to trade for a 1st round pick. So it's not like he was cut. And he obviously had a much much much higher value and upside then Johnny does for the packers to pay a 1st round pick for him. By year 2 he had gotten his shit together, showed up and played great. Johnny is a lot closer to Leaf than he is to Favre. Tebow is a good comparison too. Great college QB who doesnt translate to the NFL. Distraction for his team. TMZ baby. At least he tried and seemed to care. Id rather have Tebow.
For a look maybe. Leaf never made another roster. And folks always pull out the Favre card, but he was a 2nd round pick that his team was able to trade for a 1st round pick. So it's not like he was cut. And he obviously had a much much much higher value and upside then Johnny does for the packers to pay a 1st round pick for him. By year 2 he had gotten his shit together, showed up and played great. Johnny is a lot closer to Leaf than he is to Favre.
I don't disagree, but where there's intrigue there's always another look-see.
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It is a fact, you just won't admit it because it shows you for the ass hole that you are.
Keep whining, loser. You've got nothing and you know it, and because you have zero fact you resort only to personal insults.
Not only does the insult not "prove" anything.. it actually shows that you've got absolutely zip to back up your vague assertion.
Show these magical "facts" asserting what Manziel "proved" - or they don't exist.
You want to make a case for him? Then make it. It's on you to state your hypothesis and show evidence. Unless, of course, you as a person are just another worthless liar. And that's fine, if that's the best you can do!
Keep whining, loser. You've got nothing and you know it, and because you have zero fact you resort only to personal insults.
Not only does the insult not "prove" anything.. it actually shows that you've got absolutely zip to back up your vague assertion.
Show these magical "facts" asserting what Manziel "proved" - or they don't exist.
You want to make a case for him? Then make it. It's on you to state your hypothesis and show evidence. Unless, of course, you as a person are just another worthless liar. And that's fine, if that's the best you can do!
I always love when I see someone throw their credibility out the window by saying "blah blah blah loser how dare you resort to personal insults"
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Keep whining, loser. You've got nothing and you know it, and because you have zero fact you resort only to personal insults.
Not only does the insult not "prove" anything.. it actually shows that you've got absolutely zip to back up your vague assertion.
Show these magical "facts" asserting what Manziel "proved" - or they don't exist.
You want to make a case for him? Then make it. It's on you to state your hypothesis and show evidence. Unless, of course, you as a person are just another worthless liar. And that's fine, if that's the best you can do!
I always love when I see someone throw their credibility out the window by saying "blah blah blah loser how dare you resort to personal insults"
I always love when I see someone throw their credibility out the window by saying "blah blah blah loser how dare you resort to personal insults"
You start insulting the other person you lose most arguments.
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