Hall of Fame Breakdown

The Gipper

First time eligibles next year:

2017

LaDanian Tomlinson

Brian Dawkins

Jason Taylor

Brian Waters

Donovan McNabb

Hines Ward

Ricky Williams

2018

Ray Lewis

Randy Moss

Steve Hutchinson

Brian Urlacher

Donald Driver

Jeff Saturday

The Gipper

Here is another category of discussion re the Hall of Fame: Why Dungy (other than race) over these guys:

Marty Schottenheimer 200 wins 13 years in playoffs (but only 5-13 in postseason) no titles

Dan Reeves 190 wins 4 Super Bowl appearances, all losses 11-9 in postseason

Chuck Knox 186 wins 7-11 in postseason

Mike Holmgren 161 wins. 1 Super Bowl win, 2 SB losses 13-11 in postseason

Bill Cowher 149 wins. 1 Super Bowl win 1 Super Bowl loss 12-9 in postseason

Dungy 139 wins 1 Super Bowl win 9-10 in postseason

And there is these guys, all each with 2 championships under their belt:

George Seifert

Mike Shanahan

Jimmy Johnson

Tom Flores

Lou Saban

Buddy Parker

Note: Only coach with 3 or more Championships under his belt not in HOF: Bill Belichick...still active.

One Post

I don't see any first timers next year getting in. LT would be the best bet if any.

The Gipper

One Post From the Truth said:
I don't see any first timers next year getting in. LT would be the best bet if any.

Yea, I think Tomlinson is sure fire first year HOF. And LT is Lawrence Taylor. LDT is Tomlinson.

One Post

@the-gipper said:
Yea, I think Tomlinson is sure fire first year HOF. And LT is Lawrence Taylor. LDT is Tomlinson.

I know. Just tired today buddy.

Axe

I am a Bucs fan, and don't think Dungy belongs..

Did he turn the Bucs around? Yes! He also cost them 4-5 Super Bowl appearances due to being so hard headed....

Peyton drug him kicking and screaming to his only Lombardi. Tom Flores HAS to be saying WTF?

Richiswhere

VesnaKociper said:

Joe Thomas should be in, NOW. No offensive lineman has ever had as much impact on the NFL as Joe Thomas.

Before Joe Thomas came here, the Browns were a perennial 4 - 12 team. Now that this lard ass has been here 9 years, the Browns have blossomed into a perennial 4 - 12 team. But wait, there's more. Before JT we had no 3,000 yard passers, BUT once he got here, we improved to ZERO 3,000 yard passers. Wait for it, it gets better. Before Joe Lardass, we had no 1, 000 yard rushers, but with Joe leading the sweep, the Browns have had NINE CONSECUTIVE years of no 1,000 yard rushers. That's NINE fucking years in a row.

Send this cocksucker right to the HOF, his eligiility has already been met he is so fucking good.

HOF HOF HOF c'mon dickheads, cheer with me.

LOL the "White" Al Sharpton has spoken

gftChris

Aww, I thought this was going to be a long list of all of the things Johnny has been through in his nervous breakdown.

gftChris

Before JT we had no 3,000 yard passers, BUT once he got here, we improved to ZERO 3,000 yard passers

2014 - Hoyer - 3326 yards

2012 - Weeden - 3385 yards

2007 - Anderson - 3787 yards

Team totals have been below 3000 twice ('08 and '11) since JT was drafted.

So, there's that.

Mudfly

@gftchris said:
Team totals have been below 3000 twice ('08 and '11) since JT was drafted.
So, there's that.

actually, just once.....3300 in 2011

Bob806

I think it was tragic that Stabler didn't get in before he died. Truly one of the greats of the 70s.

I also don't get why Clay Matthews isn't in, and Kevin Greene got it. Matthews, 18 seasons and was versatile and productive, while Kevin Greene played as mainly an edge rusher, piled up a bunch of sacks.

hoorta

VesnaKociper said:

Joe Thomas should be in, NOW. No offensive lineman has ever had as much impact on the NFL as Joe Thomas.

Before Joe Thomas came here, the Browns were a perennial 4 - 12 team. Now that this lard ass has been here 9 years, the Browns have blossomed into a perennial 4 - 12 team. But wait, there's more. Before JT we had no 3,000 yard passers, BUT once he got here, we improved to ZERO 3,000 yard passers. Wait for it, it gets better. Before Joe Lardass, we had no 1, 000 yard rushers, but with Joe leading the sweep, the Browns have had NINE CONSECUTIVE years of no 1,000 yard rushers. That's NINE fucking years in a row.

Send this cocksucker right to the HOF, his eligiility has already been met he is so fucking good.

HOF HOF HOF c'mon dickheads, cheer with me.

You're right about HOF for Joe, but I told you once already- short attention span doopa head. Not only WRONG about 3,000 yard passers, but regarding Browns 1,000 yard rushers. Jamal Lewis 2007, 2008. Peyton Hillis 2010. check your facts before you troll.

And in case you didn't know it- pro football reference has Joe in the top 100 players of all time regardless of position since 1950. (Peyton Manning is #1)

The Gipper

@bob806 said:

I think it was tragic that Stabler didn't get in before he died. Truly one of the greats of the 70s.

I also don't get why Clay Matthews isn't in, and Kevin Greene got it. Matthews, 18 seasons and was versatile and productive, while Kevin Greene played as mainly an edge rusher, piled up a bunch of sacks.

Those sacks are the only thing. In actuality, their careers were similar. They were equal in PFRs production average.

Greene had a 95, Matthews a 94. Greene only made 669 tackles in his career, but had 160 sacks. 24% of his total tackles were sacks. That is pretty much all he did.

Compare: Clay had 1561 tackles.....almost 3 times as many as Greene.....but he had 69.5 sacks.

Fair to say that Green basically did one thing...rush the passer, where Clay rushed the passer, stopped the run, and covered receivers.

The CA numbers must be skewed toward sacks.

Mudfly

@the-gipper said:

Those sacks are the only thing. In actuality, their careers were similar. They were equal in PFRs production average.

Greene had a 95, Matthews a 94. Greene only made 669 tackles in his career, but had 160 sacks. 24% of his total tackles were sacks. That is pretty much all he did.

Compare: Clay had 1561 tackles.....almost 3 times as many as Greene.....but he had 69.5 sacks.

Fair to say that Green basically did one thing...rush the passer, where Clay rushed the passer, stopped the run, and covered receivers.

The CA numbers must be skewed toward sacks.

1561 is a LOT of tackles too(3rd most ALL TIME in the NFL).....esp compared to 670....Id add that they didnt start keeping sack totals until well after Clay was in the league., so he got screwed out of several years production(still wouldnt be near Greenes total, but getting in on sacks alone doesnt seem right either).....

Homer view or not, in my book, Mathews is a HOFer all the way.....

Mudfly

Here is an interesting stat break out.....and before anyone freaks out, Im not implying Dansby is better than Lewis......just saying these are some interesting numbers....make of them what you will.....

I noted that Dansby and Ray Lewis have very similar stats, and in fact, Dansby has overall better #'s, even though he has played 5 years less than Lewis....so I decided just to break it out into a yearly average and see how it looked....

Ray Lewis.........(per season) = 78 tkls....2.4 sacks....1.8 ints....3.9 Pdef....1.0 FF...7.0.TFL

Carlos Dansby..(per season) = 100 tkls..3.4 sacks....1.6 ints....5.7 Pdef....1.5 FF...9.5 TFL

So....technically....Id say Dansby has him beat, based solely upon stats....more tackles, more sacks, more tackles for loss, more forced fumbles.....and "almost" as much mouth....

gftChris

@mudfly said:

Here is an interesting stat break out.....and before anyone freaks out, Im not implying Dansby is better than Lewis......just saying these are some interesting numbers....make of them what you will.....

I noted that Dansby and Ray Lewis have very similar stats, and in fact, Dansby has overall better #'s, even though he has played 5 years less than Lewis....so I decided just to break it out into a yearly average and see how it looked....

Ray Lewis.........(per season) = 78 tkls....2.4 sacks....1.8 ints....3.9 Pdef....1.0 FF...7.0.TFL

Carlos Dansby..(per season) = 100 tkls..3.4 sacks....1.6 ints....5.7 Pdef....1.5 FF...9.5 TFL

So....technically....Id say Dansby has him beat, based solely upon stats....more tackles, more sacks, more tackles for loss, more forced fumbles.....and "almost" as much mouth....

Fewer murder investigations though.

Mudfly

@gftchris said:
Fewer murder investigations though.

Ha!....absolutely right....

The Gipper

@mudfly said:

Here is an interesting stat break out.....and before anyone freaks out, Im not implying Dansby is better than Lewis......just saying these are some interesting numbers....make of them what you will.....

I noted that Dansby and Ray Lewis have very similar stats, and in fact, Dansby has overall better #'s, even though he has played 5 years less than Lewis....so I decided just to break it out into a yearly average and see how it looked....

Ray Lewis.........(per season) = 78 tkls....2.4 sacks....1.8 ints....3.9 Pdef....1.0 FF...7.0.TFL

Carlos Dansby..(per season) = 100 tkls..3.4 sacks....1.6 ints....5.7 Pdef....1.5 FF...9.5 TFL

So....technically....Id say Dansby has him beat, based solely upon stats....more tackles, more sacks, more tackles for loss, more forced fumbles.....and "almost" as much mouth....

Well, Lewis was the leader of a defense that won 2 Super Bowls....so that obviously helps.

Lewis is also #7 overall in Production average....behind only the likes of Peyton, Favre, Rice, Reggie White, Bruce Smith and Tarkenton.

Dansby so far has not cracked the Top 250 in that category.

Mudfly

@the-gipper said:

Well, Lewis was the leader of a defense that won 2 Super Bowls....so that obviously helps.

Lewis is also #7 overall in Production average....behind only the likes of Peyton, Favre, Rice, Reggie White, Bruce Smith and Tarkenton.

Dansby so far has not cracked the Top 250 in that category.

AV?....I wonder how they come up with that, considering it cant just be stats....they must really weight winning as well as their estimate on how much that player is responsible for the wins???

The Gipper

@mudfly said:
AV?....I wonder how they come up with that, considering it cant just be stats....they must really weight winning as well as their estimate on how much that player is responsible for the wins???

I don't know the math behind it. One factor is longevity. Favre, Manning Lewis, Tarkenton, Rice.....these guys all played at a fairly high level for almost 20 years. So that is huge.

I honestly don't think winning per se is part of the algorithm.

Maybe if Dansby plays fairly well for the next 5 years he could start to move up the ranks (but, as noted, he is not in the top 250)