The Best QB Draft Class
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I'd add 2012 as a TBD - with Luck and Wilson alone it's pretty good. Also got Cousins, Tannehill and Osweiler, who could go either way. Oh, and Brandon Fucking Weeden.
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Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). :
1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan
1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca
1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre.
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- 1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino
- 2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub
- 1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman
- 1957 John Brodie, Len Dawson, Milt Plum, Sonny Jurgenson
- 1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana
1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson
TBD
2014 Blake Bortles, Teddy Twatwater, Derek Carr
2015 Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota
I think I might choose the '73 draft over '79. '79 relies mainly on Joe Cool....but I think '73 had more better QBs. Numbers count some...that is why 1971 is in there.
I think I might choose the '73 draft over '79. '79 relies mainly on Joe Cool....but I think '73 had more better QBs. Numbers count some...that is why 1971 is in there.
More better? Such grammar!
Sure that argument can be made. It's exactly why I have the 1971 class is as high as it is. Also why other, good, two-QB classes were passed over. But there are fewer in the '73 class than the '71, and the weighting of my GOAT with an assist from Sims made my decision for me.
Still it was close... thus the honorable mention.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). :
1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan
1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca
1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre.
Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). :
1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan
1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca
1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre.
This is a much more difficult choice. I will eliminate 1994 from the list as Dilfer did take a team to a Super Bowl win. I am debating about 2006 because Cutler has played some very decent football...but those other 4? Blechh.
How about:
1. 2007
2. 1992
3. 2010
4. 2002
5. 1972
Moral of the story....for all of you touting this group of QB draft candidates for 2016: look above...it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it could join this list.
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I think I might choose the '73 draft over '79. '79 relies mainly on Joe Cool....but I think '73 had more better QBs. Numbers count some...that is why 1971 is in there.
More better? Such grammar!
Sure that argument can be made. It's exactly why I have the 1971 class is as high as it is. Also why other, good, two-QB classes were passed over. But there are fewer in the '73 class than the '71, and the weighting of my GOAT with an assist from Sims made my decision for me.
Still it was close... thus the honorable mention.
More better? Such grammar!
How would you have said it?
Sure that argument can be made. It's exactly why I have the 1971 class is as high as it is. Also why other, good, two-QB classes were passed over. But there are fewer in the '73 class than the '71, and the weighting of my GOAT with an assist from Sims made my decision for me.
Would you not then have to have gone with 2000? Brady/Montana, pretty close. Simms though may beat out Pennington.
Still it was close... thus the honorable mention.
Edit: How about this matchup:
Montana and Simms or Peyton and Hasselbeck
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Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). :
1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan
1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca
1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre.
1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan
Pass on the effort, but will offer a comment...
Interesting that since 1970, "when scouting improved", you came up with 9 candidates for a worst list, but 30 candidate classes for your best list.
I like the odds...
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Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). :
1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan
1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca
1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre.
Hard to pick who is the worst, so to speak.....so Im gonna base mine on the most highly touted flops.....
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
1991 Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Browning Nagle....even with Farve, Ill still take '91....McGwire and Marinovich were monumental fails...
More better? Such grammar!
Im waffling on this....may be acceptable in context...?
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Let's do the other side of the coin: Candidates for the Worst QB draft class. There have been some years actually where a QB was not taken in the first round. I am not including those years. I am looking at years where a number of QBs were taken in Rounds 1 and 2....and they just about all were Bust. Here, again, I am only looking at the first two rounds......and only going back to 1970 (when scouting is supposed to have improved drastically). :
1972 Jerry Tagge, John Reaves, Pat Sullivan
1980 Marc Wilson, Mark Malone
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
1992 David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Matt Blundin, Tony Sacca
1994 Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
2010 Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen
Note: I thought about putting 1991 in here, the year of Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich and Browning Nagle....but that year got eliminated because it also contained Brett Favre.
This is a much more difficult choice. I will eliminate 1994 from the list as Dilfer did take a team to a Super Bowl win. I am debating about 2006 because Cutler has played some very decent football...but those other 4? Blechh.
How about:
1. 2007
2. 1992
3. 2010
4. 2002
5. 1972
Moral of the story....for all of you touting this group of QB draft candidates for 2016: look above...it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it could join this list.
This is a much more difficult choice. I will eliminate 1994 from the list as Dilfer did take a team to a Super Bowl win. I am debating about 2006 because Cutler has played some very decent football...but those other 4? Blechh.
How about:
1. 2007
2. 1992
3. 2010
4. 2002
5. 1972
Moral of the story....for all of you touting this group of QB draft candidates for 2016: look above...it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it could join this list.
And it could also join the list of best draft classes?
Whatever point you were trying to make failed.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I know a lot of you think the coming draft is full of good potential QBs. I am not so sure, but here is a related topic: A debate has often been held about which QB draft class was the best. The following are the QBs that were taken in the regular draft in many years since 1950. Decent QBs listed. I have bolded the HOF QBs, Italics for certain future HOF.
1950 Tobin Rote, Eddie LeBaron
1952 Billie Wade, Babe Parilli, Ed Brown
1955 John Unitas
1956 Earl Morrall, Bart Starr
1957 John Brodie, Len Dawson, Milt Plum, Sonny Jurgenson
1960 Don Meredith, Charlie Johnson
1961 Norm Snead, Billy Kilmer, Fran Tarkenton
1962 Roman Gabriel, John Hadl
1964 Roger Staubach
1965 Craig Morton, Joe Namath
1967 Bob Griese
1968 Greg Landry, Ken Stabler
1970 Terry Bradshaw
1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman
1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson
1975 Steve Bartkowski, Steve Grogan
1978 Doug Williams, Bill Kenney
1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana
1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino
1984 Boomer Esiason, Jeff Hostetler, Jay Schroeder
1985 Randall Cunningham (Bernie Kosar, supplemental)
1986 Jim Everett, Mark Rypien
1987 Vinny Testaverde, Chris Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Rich Gannon, Steve Beurelein, Don Majkowski
1988 Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries
1989 Troy Aikman
1991 Brett Favre
1992 Jeff Blake, Brad Johnson
1993 Mark Brunell, Elvis Grbac, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe
1995 Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, Kordell Stewart
1998 Peyton Manning, Brian Griese, Matt Hasselbeck
1999 Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks
2000 Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady
2001 Michael Vick, Drew Brees
2003 Carson Palmer
2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub
2005 Aaron Rodgers, Jason campbell, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassell
2008 Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco
2009 Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez
2011 Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick
2012 Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles
2014 Blake Bortles, Teddy Twatwater, Derek Carr
2015 Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota
Rank say your top 5 classes of all time from the above list.
I know a lot of you think the coming draft is full of good potential QBs. I am not so sure, but here is a related topic: A debate has often been held about which QB draft class was the best. The following are the QBs that were taken in the regular draft in many years since 1950. Decent QBs listed. I have bolded the HOF QBs, Italics for certain future HOF.
1950 Tobin Rote, Eddie LeBaron
1952 Billie Wade, Babe Parilli, Ed Brown
1955 John Unitas
1956 Earl Morrall, Bart Starr (giving Morrall credit for playing most of 1972 Dolphins seasons)
1957 John Brodie, Len Dawson, Milt Plum, Sonny Jurgenson
1960 Don Meredith, Charlie Johnson
1961 Norm Snead, Billy Kilmer, Fran Tarkenton
1962 Roman Gabriel, John Hadl
1964 Roger Staubach
1965 Craig Morton, Joe Namath
1967 Bob Griese
1968 Greg Landry, Ken Stabler
1970 Terry Bradshaw
1971 Jim Plunkett, Archie Manning, Dan Pastorini, Lynn Dickey, Ken Anderson, Joe Theisman
1973 Bert Jones, Ron Jaworski, Dan Fouts, Joe Ferguson
1975 Steve Bartkowski, Steve Grogan
1978 Doug Williams, Bill Kenney
1979 Phil Simms, Joe Montana
1983 John Elway, Jim Kelley, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino
1984 Boomer Esiason, Jeff Hostetler, Jay Schroeder
1985 Randall Cunningham (Bernie Kosar, supplemental)
1986 Jim Everett, Mark Rypien
1987 Vinny Testaverde, Chris Miller, Jim Harbaugh, Rich Gannon, Steve Beurelein, Don Majkowski
1988 Chris Chandler, Stan Humphries
1989 Troy Aikman
1991 Brett Favre
1992 Jeff Blake, Brad Johnson
1993 Mark Brunell, Elvis Grbac, Trent Green, Drew Bledsoe
1995 Steve McNair, Kerry Collins, Kordell Stewart
1998 Peyton Manning, Brian Griese, Matt Hasselbeck
1999 Donovan McNabb, Daunte Culpepper, Aaron Brooks
2000 Chad Pennington, Marc Bulger, Tom Brady
2001 Michael Vick, Drew Brees
2003 Carson Palmer
2004 Eli Manning, Phil Rivers, Ben Roethlisbeger, Matt Schaub
2005 Aaron Rodgers, Jason campbell, Kyle Orton, Matt Cassell
2008 Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco
2009 Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez
2011 Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick
2012 Andrew Luck, RGIII, Ryan Tannehill, Russell Wilson, Nick Foles
2014 Blake Bortles, Teddy Twatwater, Derek Carr
2015 Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota
Rank say your top 5 classes of all time from the above list.
Above I have highlighted all QBs who have won a championship....for what that's worth.
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Hard to pick who is the worst, so to speak.....so Im gonna base mine on the most highly touted flops.....
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
1991 Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Browning Nagle....even with Farve, Ill still take '91....McGwire and Marinovich were monumental fails...
More better? Such grammar!
Im waffling on this....may be acceptable in context...?
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This is a much more difficult choice. I will eliminate 1994 from the list as Dilfer did take a team to a Super Bowl win. I am debating about 2006 because Cutler has played some very decent football...but those other 4? Blechh.
How about:
1. 2007
2. 1992
3. 2010
4. 2002
5. 1972
Moral of the story....for all of you touting this group of QB draft candidates for 2016: look above...it is not beyond the realm of possibility that it could join this list.
And it could also join the list of best draft classes?
Whatever point you were trying to make failed.
And it could also join the list of best draft classes?
Whatever point you were trying to make failed.
It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I.
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And it could also join the list of best draft classes?
Whatever point you were trying to make failed.
It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I.
It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I.
Lets hope it joins the best class group...and we don't end up looking back and crying because we're the ones who drafted JP Losman.
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And it could also join the list of best draft classes?
Whatever point you were trying to make failed.
It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I.
It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I.
Exactly... It's all about the odds... and 3:1 ain't bad...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Hard to pick who is the worst, so to speak.....so Im gonna base mine on the most highly touted flops.....
2007 Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Kevin Kolb, John Beck
1990 Jeff George, Andre Ware
2002 David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey
2006 Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Jay Cutler, Kellen Clemens, Tavaris Jackson
1991 Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, Browning Nagle....even with Farve, Ill still take '91....McGwire and Marinovich were monumental fails...
More better? Such grammar!
Im waffling on this....may be acceptable in context...?
Im waffling on this....may be acceptable in context...?
I consulted my English teacher wife and she says that it was incorrect as originally written. She's in agreement with Tour. I told her that makes her one sick puppy.
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It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I.
Lets hope it joins the best class group...and we don't end up looking back and crying because we're the ones who drafted JP Losman.
Lets hope it joins the best class group...and we don't end up looking back and crying because we're the ones who drafted JP Losman.
We did that in 2012.
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We did that in 2012.
And many more.
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It didn't fail....it was a precautionary point. We just don't know the future of this future draft class. It could join either camp.....you don't have a fucking clue what will happen. Neither do I.
Exactly... It's all about the odds... and 3:1 ain't bad...
Exactly... It's all about the odds... and 3:1 ain't bad...
What I did with the "good QB" list is list all the decent QBs taken every year. With the bad classes, I didn' take every year that a really bad QB was taken ...just the years when no good QBs were taken.
That is why I eliminated 1991....as bad as it was. Even going back to the first year I listed: 1970....I didn't list that year as while there were several bad QBs, it still had Terry Bradshaw.
The parameters that I used was not the same for both lists.
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I consulted my English teacher wife and she says that it was incorrect as originally written. She's in agreement with Tour. I told her that makes her one sick puppy.
Well, go back and ask her what the right way was to say it.
"1971 had more good QBs than most other years" ?
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That list got me to thinking, so I went back and looked at all the QB drafts for the last 30 years.....and my calculation has the "best of class" QB being picked first only 11 times.....meaning 19 times, the perceived best QB really wasnt......they were wrong 66% of the time and right 33%....
Food for thought....
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That list got me to thinking, so I went back and looked at all the QB drafts for the last 30 years.....and my calculation has the "best of class" QB being picked first only 11 times.....meaning 19 times, the perceived best QB really wasnt......they were wrong 66% of the time and right 33%....
Food for thought....
That list got me to thinking, so I went back and looked at all the QB drafts for the last 30 years.....and my calculation has the "best of class" QB being picked first only 11 times.....meaning 19 times, the perceived best QB really wasnt......they were wrong 66% of the time and right 33%....
Food for thought....
Interesting.....let's eat that:
Here is the list of years where the First QB taken is the best QB of the draft year, going back to 1970:
1970 Bradshaw
1974 Danny White
1976 Richard Todd
1978 Doug Williams
1980 Marc Wilson (though some could say Eric Hipple)
1983 John Elway....though some could argue for Marino
1984 Boomer Esiason
1985 Randall Cunningham (regular draft...Kosar in supp...arguable)
1986 Jim Everett
1987 Vinny Testaverde...though Rich Gannon arguable
1989 Troy Aikman
1993 Drew Bledsoe
1995 Steve McNair
1996 Tony Banks
1998 Peyton Manning
2003 Carson Palmer
2004 Eli Manning....though BR/Rivers arguable
2008 Matt Ryan...though Flacco arguable
2009 Matt Stafford
2010 Sam Bradford
2011 Cam Newton
The following years are where the first QB taken was NOT the best to come out of that class. I give the best and which order he was taken in the draft among QBs, and then the guy that was taken first that year:
1971 Ken Anderson 5th QB taken.....Plunkett first
1972 Brian Sipe 12th QB .....Jerry Tagge 1st
1973 Dan Fouts 6th.....Bert Jones 1st
1975 Steve Grogan 3rd...Steve Bartkowski 1st
1977 Tommy Kramer 2d...Steve Pisarkewiscz 1st
1979 Joe Montana 4th....Jack Thompson 1st
1981 Neil Lomax 2d...Rich Campbell 1st
1982 Jim McMahon 2d....Art Schlichter 1st
1988 Chris Chandler 2d Tom Tupa 1st
1990 Neil O'Donnell 5th....Jeff George 1st
1991 Brett Favre 3rd...Dan McGwire 1st
1992 Brad Johnson 13th....David Klingler 1st
1994 Gus Frerotte or Trent Dilfer 6th or 2d...Heath Shuler 1st
1997 Jake Plummer 2d...Jim Drukenmiller 1st
1999 Donovan McNabb 2d...Tim Couch 1st
2000 Tom Brady 7th....Chad Pennington 1st
2001 Drew Brees 2d...Michael Vick 1st
2002 David Garrard 5th....David Carr 1st
2005 Aaron Rodgers 2d....Alex Smith 1st
2006 Jay Cutler 3rd....Vince Young 1st
2007 Trent Edwards 6th...Jamarcus Russell 1st
2012 Russell Wilson 6th......though some can argue that #1...Andrew Luck may still be better
2013 Geno Smith 2d....EJ Manual 1st (arguable
I have not done this for 2014/2015...still too early to tell I think.
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