Security or Privacy?

bbedward

@oldbrownsfan said:
The government should simply turn the phone over to Apple to recover the information on the phone and let Apple do it. Wouldn't that solve the problem?

The point is you can't have any backdoor through encryption.

If Apple can get into anybody's encrypted phone, then so could I and the government and you and everybody.

OldBrownsFan

@bbedward said:

The point is you can't have any backdoor through encryption.

If Apple can get into anybody's encrypted phone, then so could I and the government and you and everybody.

But Apple alone would have and keep that knowledge about how to unlock the phone. The only thing Apple would turn over to the government would be the information on that one phone. Seems like good advertisement for Apple that the FBI with all it's resources after 2 months could not unlock it.

bbedward

@oldbrownsfan said:

But Apple alone would have and keep that knowledge about how to unlock the phone. Seems like good advertisement for Apple that the FBI with all it's resources after 2 months could not unlock it.

It just doesn't work like that in the real world - if an encryption has a way in it isn't a very good encryption method. Everybody can use it to get in, the secret will be discovered eventually it is even easier when there'd be a bunch of people who already know the weakness.

gftChris

@oldbrownsfan said:

But Apple alone would have and keep that knowledge about how to unlock the phone. The only thing Apple would turn over to the government would be the information on that one phone. Seems like good advertisement for Apple that the FBI with all it's resources after 2 months could not unlock it.

@bbedward said:
It just doesn't work like that in the real world - if an encryption has a way in it isn't a very good encryption method. Everybody can use it to get in, the secret will be discovered eventually it is even easier when there'd be a bunch of people who already know the weakness.

Pretty much, yeah. Think of a door with no handle/lock, it's just closed. Then compare with one with a lock - sure, it's locked, and only the right people have the key, but a sufficiently dedicated lock picker could pick it given enough time. With the amount of people out there interested in being able to access that information, combined with those that just do it for fun, it would take - if it was announced there was a back door - less than a week to crack in to it, my guess.

Erie Dawg

@gftchris said:

Pretty much, yeah. Think of a door with no handle/lock, it's just closed. Then compare with one with a lock - sure, it's locked, and only the right people have the key, but a sufficiently dedicated lock picker could pick it given enough time. With the amount of people out there interested in being able to access that information, combined with those that just do it for fun, it would take - if it was announced there was a back door - less than a week to crack in to it, my guess.

sounds like a John Travolta movie.

Erie Dawg

Am I the only one who can see a small correlation between this and the 2nd amendment?

gftChris

@erie-dawg said:
Am I the only one who can see a small correlation between this and the 2nd amendment?

Maybe - explain?

calfoxwc

wait, I think it's a false choice.

terrorists/legit connections-suspects should have zero privacy.

Every other American must have privacy.

gftChris

@calfoxwc said:

wait, I think it's a false choice.

terrorists/legit connections-suspects should have zero privacy.

Every other American must have privacy.

Seems sensible - but if I recall correctly you were not particularly pleased with people being put on the terrorist watch list, no? So who determines if someone is worthy of watching?

Erie Dawg

@calfoxwc said:

wait, I think it's a false choice.

terrorists/legit connections-suspects should have zero privacy.

Every other American must have privacy.

Yeah cal. How hard would it be for the government to put a label on you?

calfoxwc

It just doesn't work like that in the real world - if an encryption has a way in it isn't a very good encryption method. Everybody can use it to get in, the secret will be discovered eventually it is even easier when there'd be a bunch of people who already know the weakness. Edw

************************

I disagree. All encryption has a way to create a backdoor. This one must be excellent, since the

FBI is helpless to crack it.

But Apple is being buttheaded. They could get the information off THAT phone for the FBI, under

an open order by a judge. Then they can store that back door (edited) under layers of high-tech security until needed again.

Any attempt by the gov to get it, would be met with the solution being fried.

Ideally, the gov will never get it's hands on it. With apple's refusal, the frantic work will be done, well invested in,

to do it themselves.

Then, the gov will have it, and the next dirtbag obamao type will use it to go after any political opponent.

Meanwhile, Apple had better pray they didn't keep us from preventing a major terrorist attack.

calfoxwc

So who determines if someone is worthy of watching?

****************************************************

You have to read my follow-up. "watch list" doesn't warrant invasion of privacy of your cell phone, wire tapping, etc.

But we are talking flat out, guilty terrorists. The cell phone is legit EVIDENCE from the terrorists, who were obviously

guilty.

The gov doesn't have the "back door" to use any time they want it. We are talking serious national security issues,

not obaMao the trashhearted traitor comming after me because I'd a Tea Party advocate....

Erie Dawg

@gftchris said:
Maybe - explain?

It seems that our freedoms are getting reduced seemingly daily. Sorta like felling a tree with an ax. Start off with a tiny hack into a phone, no big deal right? The people relax for a bit and then another swing another small chip comes off.

The Cysko Kid

Apple has the right thought, however if they refuse to play ball and the fbi develops their own method for cracking the devices thered going to be a lot more privacy issues

Erie Dawg

He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security"

The Cysko Kid

The problem is that the government already has world class hackers working for them and if you think they're not already working behind the scenes on this technology you're crazy

The Cysko Kid

Better to do it above board. With apole at least you could feel pretty sure they'd do it with some conscience.

Westside Steve

@the-cysko-kid said:
Better to do it above board. With apole at least you could feel pretty sure they'd do it with some conscience.

Ha.

I doubt they give a damn if Cal is screwing a groundhog with AIDS in front of his Satanist cult meeting. Unless they can use that info to sell him some stuff. Some of these guys and their privacy make me laugh especially when they give every detail of their stupid fucking lives to Facebook at amazon.com.

WSS

bbedward

Maybe apple could install a firmware that disables the passcode delay and phone wiping after X tries - I'm not sure how it's programmed but if it's in the firmware then they could do that which would let the FBI brute force it.

I imagine there's no special firmware that would just let you get through it - I'm imagining the pass code set by the user probably acts as a private key (at least I believe on android it does). They have to figure out the pass code regardless, and they can't brute force it because after you try too many times it wipes the phone.

That's my guess anyway, but if apple could install a firmware like that then there'd still be the problem of the FBI taking everybody's phone to apple to do that. There's only like 10,000 possible combinations I imagine a brute force would work pretty quickly.

If you can just get through encrypted data without the private key then the encryption algorithm is worthless.

calfoxwc

I just put a hex on your guitar and microphone, turkeylips.

groundhog... ???