Benjamin to sign.....Mack out then in ?
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Given the choice i would have Mitch back definitely, Mack back depending on cost.....Gipson is gone and Benjamin should not command big money, he sure is no Megatron , Larry Fitz etc
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This is Benji's one chance for a large pay day, and it looks like he wants to make the most of it. Hard to blame the guy, but I'd be curious as to exactly WHAT our team offered him. Did we low ball the guy, or is he being unreasonable? We'll probably never know, but sometimes the details of offers are made public. I could see some team like the Patriots offering Benjamin a solid deal. Can you imagine a guy like Benji running down the field with Brady throwing the ball to him? Patriots aren't known for their big spending on free agents, but it's just a thought.
The interesting thing about Benji is...we really can't lose the guy, and our team HAS to know that. If Benji leaves, then we have what left? Hartline, Gabriel, Hawkins, Pryor, and Marlan Moore for sure? Yes, I know we COULD have Gordon back, but if you're the Browns' front office, are you REALLY counting on that? Probably not. We drafted Benji, developed him, worked through his injury, and can't let him go.
The apparent revelation that Mack could opt out, and then re-sign is a welcomed thought. I didn't think there was even a CHANCE that could happen, so we'll see. Somebody was reporting that Mack wants $10 million a year instead of $8 million...we might pay that. We have the money.
This is Benji's one chance for a large pay day, and it looks like he wants to make the most of it. Hard to blame the guy, but I'd be curious as to exactly WHAT our team offered him. Did we low ball the guy, or is he being unreasonable? We'll probably never know, but sometimes the details of offers are made public. I could see some team like the Patriots offering Benjamin a solid deal. Can you imagine a guy like Benji running down the field with Brady throwing the ball to him? Patriots aren't known for their big spending on free agents, but it's just a thought.
The interesting thing about Benji is...we really can't lose the guy, and our team HAS to know that. If Benji leaves, then we have what left? Hartline, Gabriel, Hawkins, Pryor, and Marlan Moore for sure? Yes, I know we COULD have Gordon back, but if you're the Browns' front office, are you REALLY counting on that? Probably not. We drafted Benji, developed him, worked through his injury, and can't let him go.
The apparent revelation that Mack could opt out, and then re-sign is a welcomed thought. I didn't think there was even a CHANCE that could happen, so we'll see. Somebody was reporting that Mack wants $10 million a year instead of $8 million...we might pay that. We have the money.
FWIW... NFL.com's top 99 FAs. Mack isn't on the list because technically, he's still under contract. PS apparently they agree with Mud about Benji....
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000637939/article/2016-free-agency-top-99-available-players
Our guys and some players of interest.
34. Tashaun Gipson, Cleveland Browns safety: He followed up an incredible 2014 season with a miserable 2015 campaign. He's worth a shot at a discounted price.
39. Marvin Jones, Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver: If Jeffery is tagged, Jones would be our top receiver on the entire market. He has a terrific skill set, but is a candidate to get overpaid because of the thin market.
45. Mitchell Schwartz, Cleveland Browns tackle: The ever-improving right tackle adds value with excellent Twitter analysis.
51. Travis Benjamin, Cleveland Browns wide receiver: Coming off a career year, Benjamin may find out that NFL teams refuse to pay for undersized slot receivers.
68. Mohamed Sanu, Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver: Sanu is essentially a fine slot receiver, with some gadget plays mixed in. He could be productive in the right system.
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Grossi talking about how Mack is close to a backloaded deal with Mack and Swartz may get franchise tagged. We shall see.
It would be great if we found a way to keep both..... Im all in and dont care one bit about how much it costs Jimmy.....
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Doesn't every owner pay players the same amount every year anyway with the salary cap?
No actually. There is a minimum that you have to pay but anything between that and the ceiling you can keep if you choose.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Doesn't every owner pay players the same amount every year anyway with the salary cap?
No actually. There is a minimum that you have to pay but anything between that and the ceiling you can keep if you choose.
WSS
No actually. There is a minimum that you have to pay but anything between that and the ceiling you can keep if you choose.
WSS
It's all covered by revenue either way, though. It's not really Jimmy's money.
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Sounds like Mack likes it here and wants to stay. I bet the deal is announced sometime next week before the 4th.
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I think if Mack stays, schwartz stays 99%. Gipson also is more likely to stay. Benjamin could go either way still, but he's the least talented of the three.
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I think if Mack stays, schwartz stays 99%. Gipson also is more likely to stay. Benjamin could go either way still, but he's the least talented of the three.
I think if Mack stays, schwartz stays 99%. Gipson also is more likely to stay. Benjamin could go either way still, but he's the least talented of the three.
That's hard to say after last year's levels of performance from him and Gipson.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
they wouldn't have stayed if it weren't for Hue Jackson being
so inspiring a new HC.
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That's hard to say after last year's levels of performance from him and Gipson.
WSS
I think Benjamin is a perfectly serviceable second or third WR, but guys like that aren't so difficult to replace. A ball-hawk safety is a lot harder. Besides, Benjamin was very inconsistent, got 4 TDs in the first three games and then one for the rest of the year. I'm not saying don't resign him, but for me he's the least important and most easily replaced.
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That's hard to say after last year's levels of performance from him and Gipson.
WSS
I think Benjamin is a perfectly serviceable second or third WR, but guys like that aren't so difficult to replace. A ball-hawk safety is a lot harder. Besides, Benjamin was very inconsistent, got 4 TDs in the first three games and then one for the rest of the year. I'm not saying don't resign him, but for me he's the least important and most easily replaced.
I think Benjamin is a perfectly serviceable second or third WR, but guys like that aren't so difficult to replace. A ball-hawk safety is a lot harder. Besides, Benjamin was very inconsistent, got 4 TDs in the first three games and then one for the rest of the year. I'm not saying don't resign him, but for me he's the least important and most easily replaced.
I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.
But he didn't.
And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
I think Benjamin is a perfectly serviceable second or third WR, but guys like that aren't so difficult to replace. A ball-hawk safety is a lot harder. Besides, Benjamin was very inconsistent, got 4 TDs in the first three games and then one for the rest of the year. I'm not saying don't resign him, but for me he's the least important and most easily replaced.
I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.
But he didn't.
And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?
WSS
I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.
But he didn't.
And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?
WSS
I guess agree to disagree?
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I think Benjamin is a perfectly serviceable second or third WR, but guys like that aren't so difficult to replace. A ball-hawk safety is a lot harder. Besides, Benjamin was very inconsistent, got 4 TDs in the first three games and then one for the rest of the year. I'm not saying don't resign him, but for me he's the least important and most easily replaced.
I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.
But he didn't.
And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?
WSS
I'd agree with you if Gipson performed last year like he did the year before.
But he didn't.
And Benjamin does seem to have a spark which should ignite into a fire by an offensive genius like Hue Jackson, right?
WSS
Some of Gipson's best (b4 knee ended season) was Gipson in Ray Horton's D system. So at this point Schwartz & Gipson our big signings.
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This is Benji's one chance for a large pay day, and it looks like he wants to make the most of it. Hard to blame the guy, but I'd be curious as to exactly WHAT our team offered him. Did we low ball the guy, or is he being unreasonable? We'll probably never know, but sometimes the details of offers are made public. I could see some team like the Patriots offering Benjamin a solid deal. Can you imagine a guy like Benji running down the field with Brady throwing the ball to him? Patriots aren't known for their big spending on free agents, but it's just a thought.
The interesting thing about Benji is...we really can't lose the guy, and our team HAS to know that. If Benji leaves, then we have what left? Hartline, Gabriel, Hawkins, Pryor, and Marlan Moore for sure? Yes, I know we COULD have Gordon back, but if you're the Browns' front office, are you REALLY counting on that? Probably not. We drafted Benji, developed him, worked through his injury, and can't let him go.
The apparent revelation that Mack could opt out, and then re-sign is a welcomed thought. I didn't think there was even a CHANCE that could happen, so we'll see. Somebody was reporting that Mack wants $10 million a year instead of $8 million...we might pay that. We have the money.
This is Benji's one chance for a large pay day, and it looks like he wants to make the most of it. Hard to blame the guy, but I'd be curious as to exactly WHAT our team offered him. Did we low ball the guy, or is he being unreasonable? We'll probably never know, but sometimes the details of offers are made public. I could see some team like the Patriots offering Benjamin a solid deal. Can you imagine a guy like Benji running down the field with Brady throwing the ball to him? Patriots aren't known for their big spending on free agents, but it's just a thought.
The interesting thing about Benji is...we really can't lose the guy, and our team HAS to know that. If Benji leaves, then we have what left? Hartline, Gabriel, Hawkins, Pryor, and Marlan Moore for sure? Yes, I know we COULD have Gordon back, but if you're the Browns' front office, are you REALLY counting on that? Probably not. We drafted Benji, developed him, worked through his injury, and can't let him go.
The apparent revelation that Mack could opt out, and then re-sign is a welcomed thought. I didn't think there was even a CHANCE that could happen, so we'll see. Somebody was reporting that Mack wants $10 million a year instead of $8 million...we might pay that. We have the money.
BINGO! Before you started posting here and even before many had Benjamin making our 2015 roster, I brought up a lot of improvements I saw from Travis in 2014 (ie; leading our WR Corp in TD receptions and 17.4 yards per catch). For all of the 2nd round WRs we swung from our ass and missed on over the years (Dennis Northcutt, Andre Davis, Quincey Morgan, and Greg Little) - this mid/late round pick showed up knowing he had to work for everything. In spite of all the turnover with coaching staffs and QBs throughout his development, he's improved steadily to the player we saw last year.
I'm still waiting for Josh Gordon to be reliable off the field every bit as much as I have watching Santa Claus flying behind reindeer on my bucket list. And when he got his ideal chance to be Mr Magic joining a 6-4 team in progress - we finished 1-5 with him not caring enough to know the playbook, play every down and attend meetings on time. Yeah, I know - how dare I hold him accountable for hanging out with the wrong guys and this alleged "just 1 beer" that produced a dirty water soluble drug test some 12-24 hours later. What about hanging out with the right people so this isn't a temptation in the first place if the career is a priority? Too tough? So far it has been for a guy that has put himself in the position he can't even have 1 beer. More importantly, where has that left our front office planning with the WR position the last 3-4 years? "We already have Josh Gordon so we don't need to consider drafting decent help on the perimeter." Even worse, Farmer was in charge of personnel so the last time Dwayne Bowe was a scoring weapon way back in 2011 - has him just right for Farmer in 2015 and a contract that guaranteed him 9 million $? Lucky us!
We've been pretty non-competitive from the WR position in the red zone in recent years because of this we're all set with Josh Gordon that can't ever get himself on the field because of his choices off the field. It's a passing era where your play makers on the perimeter are largely responsible for what teams put on the scoreboard. Isn't that trend big enough to support why more QBs, WRs and LTs are getting drafted in round 1 than RBs and RTs?
Why all this far sided concern from a near sighted blowhard? As much as I'm really excited about our new front office - I don't want them making a rookie mistake of falling into the same trap of making Josh Gordon the plan/foundation. Do schools teach history? Why would they do that? If Gordon couldn't get on the field for 2 different college programs before we're seeing most of his NFL career reduced to "he's REALLY gonna be unstoppable next time he's not suspended." The last next time was 2014 and it wasn't nearly as good as what we just saw from Benjamin. Moral of the story, prioritizing one's NFL career can really show up on Sundays. Benjamin prioritized it while Gordon usually has not. Was he unreasonable with what he'd be willing to stay for? If you're in his shoes, how many other WRs could have gotten better to the extent he did throughout all of the turnover at HC, OC, QB and WR Coach? If we were a team that was good at finding late WRs like Antonio Brown or undrafted guys like Victor Cruz - I'd feel better about letting Benjamin go while holding my breath for one of the only football seasons (college and pro) Josh Gordon can remain drug free in its entirety. It's costed him millions of $ to where 1 more dirty urine = career done while some only want to focus on "it was only 1 beer man." My hope is we package up Gordon to the God complex in Dallas and get some extra picks so we can address a WR position that's far too weak to compete in a passing era.
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Sorry, but not going to lose much sleep if we lose Benji. Like him as a #2/#3 WR, but how many times have you ever seen a reception of his and said, "Wow, what a catch?".
Will miss his punt return contributions, but for every nice return there's been two or more "why did he not field that?" moments.
that will very much suck if we lose him to the Oakland Raiders. Carr was my 2014 QB preference, if i'm the Raiders FO i'm definitely listening to my franchise QB's reasonable requests....
... or his brother's? Methinks you thinks of Derek...
When did David become a talking head?
how many times have you ever seen a reception of his and said, "Wow, what a catch?".
i agree Tour, but to his credit we also don't hear a lot of complaints about drops from him. to date he's had 8 career drops in 4 seasons -- 3 drops each in the past 2 and one each rookie and soph). his body catches may not be pretty but they get it done. he also gets open. WIDE open. he also comes back for balls, doesn't give up on plays, helps out his QB ans is also a capable blocker.
a burner with olympic speed who runs decent routes, and who's actually been quite durable for a 175lber? with 3 drops on nearly 1000 yards in 2015? pretty appealing.
odd stat: he has lead the league in recpt avg and excelled in that area (very slim margins among top 50-ish) but for some reason he's been dead last out of 400+ every single year in yac. head scratcher. even if he can't break a tackle to save his life i recall numerous catches followed by big chunks of yardage, some that went for scores. but still dead last. and all 4 years? if nothing else you gotta admire the consistency.
Travis stepped up and helped to fill some of the huge void Gordon left. aside from Hartlines handful of contributions while healthy,
Benjamin and Barnidge were really the only bright spots among a very dissapointing and injury riddled 2015 receiver group.
i'd prefer the Browns not sell the farm but personally i love having Benji on the team.
Will miss his punt return contributions, but for every nice return there's been two or more "why did he not field that?" moments.
i wager Tabor probably has some insight here. it's easy to see from above at home
but i will admit i have had that thought. much less with the Browns than many others imo fwiw. ok
i'll also admit to a little minimizing, if you'll confess to a little nitpicking. personally i can live w those downsides...for very fair compensation. adequate plus. but he's free to maximize his $$, no hard feelings here or sleep lost if another team ponies up Skrine money for him.
... or his brother's? Methinks you thinks of Derek...
When did David become a talking head?
well that pretty much changes everything. (!)
although i have mixed those two up before (more than once taboot) i have no excuse there i just whiffed. fuck David Carr.
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No actually. There is a minimum that you have to pay but anything between that and the ceiling you can keep if you choose.
WSS
It's all covered by revenue either way, though. It's not really Jimmy's money.
It's all covered by revenue either way, though. It's not really Jimmy's money.
Huh? As owner JImmah doesn't get to keep the profits?
BINGO! Before you started posting here and even before many had Benjamin making our 2015 roster, I brought up a lot of improvements I saw from Travis in 2014 (ie; leading our WR Corp in TD receptions and 17.4 yards per catch).
... this alleged "just 1 beer" that produced a dirty water soluble drug test some 12-24 hours later.
First, it was a couple drinks on a plane with instructions to report for testing waiting at landing.
Two, the improvement was in the use of Benji. Under Patsy I think his one route was called "go long". Under Chud he was hurt. Under Pet/Shanny he developed a route tree. Under Pet/Flipper he was the only choice.
Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?
He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
It's all covered by revenue either way, though. It's not really Jimmy's money.
Huh? As owner JImmah doesn't get to keep the profits?
BINGO! Before you started posting here and even before many had Benjamin making our 2015 roster, I brought up a lot of improvements I saw from Travis in 2014 (ie; leading our WR Corp in TD receptions and 17.4 yards per catch).
... this alleged "just 1 beer" that produced a dirty water soluble drug test some 12-24 hours later.
First, it was a couple drinks on a plane with instructions to report for testing waiting at landing.
Two, the improvement was in the use of Benji. Under Patsy I think his one route was called "go long". Under Chud he was hurt. Under Pet/Shanny he developed a route tree. Under Pet/Flipper he was the only choice.
Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?
He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.
First, it was a couple drinks on a plane with instructions to report for testing waiting at landing.
Two, the improvement was in the use of Benji. Under Patsy I think his one route was called "go long". Under Chud he was hurt. Under Pet/Shanny he developed a route tree. Under Pet/Flipper he was the only choice.
Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?
He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.
There's been quite a few guys excited to announce Gordon only had 1 beer so that's the audience I targeted that to. If he was told before the plane ride that he'd have to take a NFL drug test at the end of it and he drank alcohol - even more difficult to believe he's got an entire year ahead of nothing but clean tests. I suppose there's a first time for everything; but he isn't very easy to believe in if we go by history as an educational tool.
As for Travis Benjamin, he made a terrific 1 handed snag of a slant pass thrown behind him in the preseason. There's a couple on film here (around the 2 minutes and 38 secs into it and at 2:56 or so) vrs Baltimore and St Louis.
Ideally, you like to have guys here heading into their very best football especially when you've invested 3-4 years into him. That's what I liked most about Travis was how far he came. It feels like we've trained him up so he can help somebody else when he's coming into his prime. Both Barnidge and Benjamin put together seasons nobody saw coming so I was thrilled we Barnidge a new contract and was hoping we could do the same for Benjamin. Our cap is never in jeopardy while the cupboards are empty in the WR Corps.
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It's all covered by revenue either way, though. It's not really Jimmy's money.
Huh? As owner JImmah doesn't get to keep the profits?
BINGO! Before you started posting here and even before many had Benjamin making our 2015 roster, I brought up a lot of improvements I saw from Travis in 2014 (ie; leading our WR Corp in TD receptions and 17.4 yards per catch).
... this alleged "just 1 beer" that produced a dirty water soluble drug test some 12-24 hours later.
First, it was a couple drinks on a plane with instructions to report for testing waiting at landing.
Two, the improvement was in the use of Benji. Under Patsy I think his one route was called "go long". Under Chud he was hurt. Under Pet/Shanny he developed a route tree. Under Pet/Flipper he was the only choice.
Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?
He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.
Again, I have to ask for an example of a great catch by Benji? A 50/50 ball he won?
errrrr i can't.
one time at band camp he hauled in this one heater streaking left across the back of the end zone--Wheezy may have launched it. Weedz was guilty of dislocating at least one of the fingers on all his receiver's hands at Oklahoma State, but his balls seemed to be no problem for Travis. does that count for anything? well sadly it saul i got.
He's a serviceable #2/slot with a value boost due to very good punt return skills.
replaceable? sure.
easy to replace? not easy but feasible.
expendable? as of today? no.
i hope we lock him up for a while, but at the right price. i wouldn't part ways unless he lands a more lucrative and/or attractive deal somewhere else.
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