Camp Wentz- Starts here.
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Bosa flubbed in the combine
Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.
Gotta love the combine.
Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.
Gotta love the combine.
Bosa was actually not huge on production, at least from the standpoint that people were hoping to see a big leap from him on the stat sheet last season.
A stellar performance in shorts and tees would have eliminated some of those concerns, but it kind of created another bit of doubt.
I still like Bosa, but I am thinking more because of it.
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http://www.drafttek.com/2016-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-34-Defensive-Ends-2016-Draft.asp
Bosa isn't even listed... if Watt were in this draft... he'd definately be rated high on this list.
Because Bosa's a 43 DE, not 34.
Because Bosa's a 43 DE, not 34.
Yeah they have Bosa as a 4-3 DE, and a good one. If your base D is a 3-4, you don't pick Bosa.
I looked at some of those drafts Gip quoted, and seriously?
McShay (ESPN) does have Bosa as the #1 prospect, but NOT in his mock draft. How does he have Cook and Hackenberg in his top 25, but not Wentz? Was he asleep, or a typo? Especially since he has the Browns drafting Wentz.
Klatt has both Lynch and Cook ahead of Goff, doesn't mention Wentz, and has Zeke Elliiot as the #37 prospect Has Hackenberg, as his #20 ranked prospect- my bet is Christian isn't going until the third round. Riiiiiiggghhhtt. He either threw darts at prospects, or was high when he came up with that one.
CBS has Bosa #1, Goff @ #4. A stud qb trumps a stud DE every time- just ask the Texans.
Bosa may be a great prospect, but a stud DE is not our #1 need, especially with a couple potential stud quarterbacks staring us in the face.
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Bosa flubbed in the combine
Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.
Gotta love the combine.
Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.
Gotta love the combine.
What did Bosa do on the field to cement his status as apparent top prospect of 2016? He's a good player - one the top 10. But he's not, and never has been, game changing talent.
The weekend in shorts and a tank top just cemented what plenty were already saying. Great, not elite.
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Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.
Gotta love the combine.
What did Bosa do on the field to cement his status as apparent top prospect of 2016? He's a good player - one the top 10. But he's not, and never has been, game changing talent.
The weekend in shorts and a tank top just cemented what plenty were already saying. Great, not elite.
What did Bosa do on the field to cement his status as apparent top prospect of 2016?.
Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.
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Because Bosa's a 43 DE, not 34.
Yeah they have Bosa as a 4-3 DE, and a good one. If your base D is a 3-4, you don't pick Bosa.
I looked at some of those drafts Gip quoted, and seriously?
McShay (ESPN) does have Bosa as the #1 prospect, but NOT in his mock draft. How does he have Cook and Hackenberg in his top 25, but not Wentz? Was he asleep, or a typo? Especially since he has the Browns drafting Wentz.
Klatt has both Lynch and Cook ahead of Goff, doesn't mention Wentz, and has Zeke Elliiot as the #37 prospect Has Hackenberg, as his #20 ranked prospect- my bet is Christian isn't going until the third round. Riiiiiiggghhhtt. He either threw darts at prospects, or was high when he came up with that one.
CBS has Bosa #1, Goff @ #4. A stud qb trumps a stud DE every time- just ask the Texans.
Bosa may be a great prospect, but a stud DE is not our #1 need, especially with a couple potential stud quarterbacks staring us in the face.
Yeah they have Bosa as a 4-3 DE, and a good one. If your base D is a 3-4, you don't pick Bosa.
I'm no pro, but I have always thought Bosa is over rated. Good, not great.
I looked at some of those drafts Gip quoted, and seriously?
McShay (ESPN) does have Bosa as the #1 prospect, but NOT in his mock draft. How does he have Cook and Hackenberg in his top 25, but not Wentz? Was he asleep, or a typo?
I have never liked McShay.
Klatt has both Lynch and Cook ahead of Goff, doesn't mention Wentz, and has Zeke Elliiot as the #37 prospect Has Hackenberg, as his #20 ranked prospect- my bet is Christian isn't going until the third round. Riiiiiiggghhhtt. He either threw darts at prospects, or was high when he came up with that one.
WOW! Hackenburg may be the 2oth rated QB!!! & Lynch & Cook over Goff? This guy's been hangin' out with Johnny!
CBS has Bosa #1, Goff @ #4. A stud qb trumps a stud DE every time- just ask the Texans.
Bosa may be a great prospect, but a stud DE is not our #1 need, especially with a couple potential stud quarterbacks staring us in the face.
When I see McShay's name, I start getting sick.I can't believe they PAY him.
Mike
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What did Bosa do on the field to cement his status as apparent top prospect of 2016?.
Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.
Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.
Here's my thoughts on Wentz- and I'm with you on beware fast risers. He did win a couple National Championships. He checks all the boxes- except
Limited game sample size, against inferior competition. Well to counter that we have Flacco- Delaware, Steve McNair-Alcorn State (Drafted #3 BTW), and Ken Anderson- Augustana.
Injury of broken wrist, and shoulder problems. Anthony Munoz and our own Joe Thomas both had ACL tears in college.
My big problem is- though he checks all the physical boxes you could want, can he process and read NFL defenses in a timely manner? Arg- please not Brandon Wee-done.
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Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.
Here's my thoughts on Wentz- and I'm with you on beware fast risers. He did win a couple National Championships. He checks all the boxes- except
Limited game sample size, against inferior competition. Well to counter that we have Flacco- Delaware, Steve McNair-Alcorn State (Drafted #3 BTW), and Ken Anderson- Augustana.
Injury of broken wrist, and shoulder problems. Anthony Munoz and our own Joe Thomas both had ACL tears in college.
My big problem is- though he checks all the physical boxes you could want, can he process and read NFL defenses in a timely manner? Arg- please not Brandon Wee-done.
Here's my thoughts on Wentz- and I'm with you on beware fast risers. He did win a couple National Championships. He checks all the boxes- except
Limited game sample size, against inferior competition. Well to counter that we have Flacco- Delaware, Steve McNair-Alcorn State (Drafted #3 BTW), and Ken Anderson- Augustana.
Injury of broken wrist, and shoulder problems. Anthony Munoz and our own Joe Thomas both had ACL tears in college.
My big problem is- though he checks all the physical boxes you could want, can he process and read NFL defenses in a timely manner? Arg- please not Brandon Wee-done.
Watch all of his games, this is NOT a problem. He has this ability, and you can see it.
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Here's my thoughts on Wentz- and I'm with you on beware fast risers. He did win a couple National Championships. He checks all the boxes- except
Limited game sample size, against inferior competition. Well to counter that we have Flacco- Delaware, Steve McNair-Alcorn State (Drafted #3 BTW), and Ken Anderson- Augustana.
Injury of broken wrist, and shoulder problems. Anthony Munoz and our own Joe Thomas both had ACL tears in college.
My big problem is- though he checks all the physical boxes you could want, can he process and read NFL defenses in a timely manner? Arg- please not Brandon Wee-done.
Watch all of his games, this is NOT a problem. He has this ability, and you can see it.
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What did Bosa do on the field to cement his status as apparent top prospect of 2016?.
Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.
Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.
About three of us. Coincidentally, the same three who were also saying the Bosa wasn't some amazing prospect back then.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I never said the kid sucked or anything. This is just my gut feeling and my opinion bro. As you said, no one ultimately knows what can happen, but my prediction is he'll be good (not great).
Sure, but it is a gut feeling that goes against what most people think.
Look at what the so called experts said about Clowney, Courtney Brown, and even Johnny Manziel....
That fact is that anyone can make educated guesses, but what makes someone an expert?
Being on ESPN? Writing for NFL.com?
Well, that makes them a professional....which I assume makes them more of an expert than you or I.
Ultimately, even if Bosa is the top pick, if he's ever gonna be elite like Watt he needs to work harder than everyone. He won't be able to kill everyone in the NFL.... Do you know enough about his personality to fully guess that he will?
Again, pure speculation. He will probably work as hard as he needs to.
Plus, he said negative things about the city of Cleveland and insinuated he didn't want to play here. So if we draft him, who goes to say he won't bounce as soon as his rookie contract is up?
I don't give a crap about that. He said those out of ignorance. If he comes here, he will find that he likes it.
I'd rather have a kid who works his ass off and wants it more than anyone else.... And someone who wants to be here....
Not somebody being worshipped by everybody (see Clowney).
I think Goff is the right call, and will be fucking elite. Wentz might be slightly bigger and i see him having a potentially great career, but I think Goff is naturally better, and just wants it more.
It's a deep defensive draft, but how many potentially great QB's are there? None IMO
Is Bosa a once in a decade type of talent, in many estimations, yes
or can we get a badass DE in the second or third round, and potentially a great QB? No one really knows the answer to any of these questions.
I never said the kid sucked or anything. This is just my gut feeling and my opinion bro. As you said, no one ultimately knows what can happen, but my prediction is he'll be good (not great).
Sure, but it is a gut feeling that goes against what most people think.
Look at what the so called experts said about Clowney, Courtney Brown, and even Johnny Manziel....
That fact is that anyone can make educated guesses, but what makes someone an expert?
Being on ESPN? Writing for NFL.com?
Well, that makes them a professional....which I assume makes them more of an expert than you or I.
Ultimately, even if Bosa is the top pick, if he's ever gonna be elite like Watt he needs to work harder than everyone. He won't be able to kill everyone in the NFL.... Do you know enough about his personality to fully guess that he will?
Again, pure speculation. He will probably work as hard as he needs to.
Plus, he said negative things about the city of Cleveland and insinuated he didn't want to play here. So if we draft him, who goes to say he won't bounce as soon as his rookie contract is up?
I don't give a crap about that. He said those out of ignorance. If he comes here, he will find that he likes it.
I'd rather have a kid who works his ass off and wants it more than anyone else.... And someone who wants to be here....
Not somebody being worshipped by everybody (see Clowney).
I think Goff is the right call, and will be fucking elite. Wentz might be slightly bigger and i see him having a potentially great career, but I think Goff is naturally better, and just wants it more.
It's a deep defensive draft, but how many potentially great QB's are there? None IMO
Is Bosa a once in a decade type of talent, in many estimations, yes
or can we get a badass DE in the second or third round, and potentially a great QB? No one really knows the answer to any of these questions.
I firmly think it's very naive to say that if he comes here he'll like it after he publicly dissed Cleveland. Anyways bro i'm not picking a fight with you and you're entitled to your opinion too and I respect that, I just don't think he's the best fit for the Browns....
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I think Bosa's a lot better than Buckner, but that's just me. Certainly, all the pundits are starting to disagree.
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Larry didn't link Goff. I didn't see that link.
I know... stings doesn't it?
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Funny how a weekend in shorts and a tank top can ruin an entire season on the field.
Gotta love the combine.
Bosa was actually not huge on production, at least from the standpoint that people were hoping to see a big leap from him on the stat sheet last season.
A stellar performance in shorts and tees would have eliminated some of those concerns, but it kind of created another bit of doubt.
I still like Bosa, but I am thinking more because of it.
A stellar performance in shorts and tees would have eliminated some of those concerns, but it kind of created another bit of doubt.
Agree... Combine should at a minimum confirm game tape perceptions. Joey's simply did not... not even mine which were more reserved than some around here.
When I see McShay's name, I start getting sick.I can't believe they PAY him.
In comparison to Kiper, I love McShay.
Watch all of his games, this is NOT a problem. He has this ability, and you can see it.
I have watched as many 2015 cutdowns as I could find, 5 in all, and I can't see it, Mike... at least not from the broadcast footage.
Edit: DraftBreakdown now has all 7 of his 2015 games. http://draftbreakdown.com/players/carson-wentz/
Are there any all 22 links you can supply?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
A stellar performance in shorts and tees would have eliminated some of those concerns, but it kind of created another bit of doubt.
Agree... Combine should at a minimum confirm game tape perceptions. Joey's simply did not... not even mine which were more reserved than some around here.
When I see McShay's name, I start getting sick.I can't believe they PAY him.
In comparison to Kiper, I love McShay.
Watch all of his games, this is NOT a problem. He has this ability, and you can see it.
I have watched as many 2015 cutdowns as I could find, 5 in all, and I can't see it, Mike... at least not from the broadcast footage.
Edit: DraftBreakdown now has all 7 of his 2015 games. http://draftbreakdown.com/players/carson-wentz/
Are there any all 22 links you can supply?
I have watched as many 2015 cutdowns as I could find, 5 in all, and I can't see it, Mike... at least not from the broadcast footage.
Edit: DraftBreakdown now has all 7 of his 2015 games. http://draftbreakdown.com/players/carson-wentz/
Are there any all 22 links you can supply?
I don't have time to make cut ups or clips, and didn't record specific time stamps in my notes, but ITP produced a good cut up of one play that he displays it.
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Same argument could be said for Wentz. How many board members new this guy's name 40 days ago? Maybe if we're lucky we'll draft another workout warrior like Veikune, after all, he was a stud in a tank top.
About three of us. Coincidentally, the same three who were also saying the Bosa wasn't some amazing prospect back then.
About three of us
Well, if we do pick Wentz it sounds like your name is attached to him, and for all of our sake, hopefully it's you who's beating his own chest, proclaiming your greatness as he becomes the 1st QB to lead the Browns to the Super Bowl.
I'm hoping we trade back, but either way, it will be interesting for sure.
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About three of us
Well, if we do pick Wentz it sounds like your name is attached to him, and for all of our sake, hopefully it's you who's beating his own chest, proclaiming your greatness as he becomes the 1st QB to lead the Browns to the Super Bowl.
I'm hoping we trade back, but either way, it will be interesting for sure.
Well, if we do pick Wentz it sounds like your name is attached to him, and for all of our sake, hopefully it's you who's beating his own chest, proclaiming your greatness as he becomes the 1st QB to lead the Browns to the Super Bowl.
I'm hoping we trade back, but either way, it will be interesting for sure.
I wouldn't go that far. Maybe a nice casual "I told you so" every now and then.
Beating my chest would feel a bit disingenuous because I also believe Goff will be a good NFL pro, and it's not fair to subscribe to both camps and then mouth off when one does well.
Although, if it goes the other way, and Wentz sucks...
When you win, say nothing - that part I'm pretty solid at.
When you lose, say less - that part I still need work on.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Well, if we do pick Wentz it sounds like your name is attached to him, and for all of our sake, hopefully it's you who's beating his own chest, proclaiming your greatness as he becomes the 1st QB to lead the Browns to the Super Bowl.
I'm hoping we trade back, but either way, it will be interesting for sure.
I wouldn't go that far. Maybe a nice casual "I told you so" every now and then.
Beating my chest would feel a bit disingenuous because I also believe Goff will be a good NFL pro, and it's not fair to subscribe to both camps and then mouth off when one does well.
Although, if it goes the other way, and Wentz sucks...
When you win, say nothing - that part I'm pretty solid at.
When you lose, say less - that part I still need work on.
When you win, say nothing - that part I'm pretty solid at.
When you lose, say less - that part I still need work on.
Luckily for me, I'm pretty good at both, but neither is easy.
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I'm solidly in the Wentz camp now & even though TCPO & I have butted heads at times, he came out some time ago, before most of us even knew who Wentz was, & said he was the top QB in this draft class. He has never wavered from his stance & for that, he has my respect.
Mike
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Links to any raw footage are fine, Mike... Time is something I have plenty of.
On the link you provided...
I see the initial look Schofield points out. Wentz definitely checked out the rotation of the Safety high. But I disagree with his assessment of the correctness of the read. Also note that the Corners tipped the coverage with the one to the top shaded inside and the slot shaded outside.
My take is everything points to targeting the TE running the post once he clears the LBs under. The TE post essentially wrong foots the Safety rolling to the single high and the CB to the top is locked into man-on-man and running himself out of the play. Clearing the flat-footed LB should have been a given... should have been seen. Even allowing for the influence of the throw on the single-high safety, I think the TE was a much easier completion. But it was a completion that required seeing the window, not an open receiver.
In the Pros, with limited downfield contact allowed, a back shoulder to the single-covered WR would be a viable choice as well. Again, viable only if the window is recognized.
Instead I see Wentz electing to throw into the teeth of the coverage... and a bit behind his WR to boot. A completion to the wrong receiver in my eyes. I think he saw an open receiver there... in a window.
Interestingly I was critiquing a Schofield article over on Reddit earlier today.
Only have gotten as far as his initial comparison of Goff and Wentz's footwork... with which I also shockingly disagreed.
But then Scho was claiming that Wentz standing still was footwork.I do like Scho's toys though...
Interestingly the same defense used in your clip was used in a red zone situation against Wentz in the article's first example of his standing still footwork...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well, if we do pick Wentz it sounds like your name is attached to him, and for all of our sake, hopefully it's you who's beating his own chest, proclaiming your greatness as he becomes the 1st QB to lead the Browns to the Super Bowl.
I'm hoping we trade back, but either way, it will be interesting for sure.
I wouldn't go that far. Maybe a nice casual "I told you so" every now and then.
Beating my chest would feel a bit disingenuous because I also believe Goff will be a good NFL pro, and it's not fair to subscribe to both camps and then mouth off when one does well.
Although, if it goes the other way, and Wentz sucks...
When you win, say nothing - that part I'm pretty solid at.
When you lose, say less - that part I still need work on.
When you win, say nothing - that part I'm pretty solid at.
When you lose, say less - that part I still need work on.
What asshole came up with... oh... nevermind...
I'm solidly in the Wentz camp now & even though TCPO & I have butted heads at times, he came out some time ago, before most of us even knew who Wentz was, & said he was the top QB in this draft class. He has never wavered from his stance & for that, he has my respect.
lol... FFS, Mike at least wait until it's at least looking like he's right...
You know, like it's looking like he was about Bortles... and Jameis...
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