The Pats won 3 SB's around a kicker and an all-time defense.
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This is what you said, "Look at any team that has won a super bowl past Tampa Bay and think if those dudes weren't top 10 at their position at the time".
I was giving you the answer that no, he was not very good compared to his prime and certainly not top 10 at his position.
Eh, we'll just disagree on that. I get where you're going, but I think even a 40 year old Peyton Manning was still top 10-11 in the league last year.
I'd flip this around a little bit, but this is pretty much how I saw it last year:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132
You need a franchise QB to win multiple SB's. You can get one with D and a kicker. Getting one is awesome.
Again, name one team who has won the SB since 2003 who didn't have a true franchise QB at the helm (and don't give me that Joe Flacco bullshit like he isn't a franchise dude). Manning this year is as close of an argument you can make. There's plenty of examples in the history of the game but none in almost 15 years running.
Eh, we'll just disagree on that. I get where you're going, but I think even a 40 year old Peyton Manning was still top 10-11 in the league last year.
I'd flip this around a little bit, but this is pretty much how I saw it last year:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000524987/article/qb-index-ranking-the-starters-132
Again, name one team who has won the SB since 2003 who didn't have a true franchise QB at the helm (and don't give me that Joe Flacco bullshit like he isn't a franchise dude). Manning this year is as close of an argument you can make. There's plenty of examples in the history of the game but none in almost 15 years running.
Peyton was one of the worst in the league last year. He may have been the worst of all starters in terms of rating. The guy only had like four games with a rating above 80.
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So now we have Tampa Bay and the Broncos. Both superb defensive teams! LOL!
That's why I said since 2003, aka after Tampa Bay won?
Peyton was one of the worst in the league last year. He may have been the worst of all starters in terms of rating. The guy only had like four games with a rating above 80.
Like I said, I'm willing to bend on the idea some with Manning this year. I understand, really I do, but a broken down Peyton Manning is still not on the same level as a Trent Dilfer.
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So now we have Tampa Bay and the Broncos. Both superb defensive teams! LOL!
That's why I said since 2003, aka after Tampa Bay won?
Peyton was one of the worst in the league last year. He may have been the worst of all starters in terms of rating. The guy only had like four games with a rating above 80.
Like I said, I'm willing to bend on the idea some with Manning this year. I understand, really I do, but a broken down Peyton Manning is still not on the same level as a Trent Dilfer.
That's why I said since 2003, aka after Tampa Bay won?
Like I said, I'm willing to bend on the idea some with Manning this year. I understand, really I do, but a broken down Peyton Manning is still not on the same level as a Trent Dilfer.
Just tugging on your leg a bit.
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Just tugging on your leg a bit.
Well, where I can certainly meet in the middle is I don't care where or how the QB gets found. If the brass don't like Goff or Wentz for w/e reason, I'm fine with stockpiling good players (of course we gotta actually draft good players
) and suffering another below average season with McCown and insert 2nd/3rd string QB. That being said, I'm really high on Goff so I hope he's the pick. -
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We have drafted 4 QBs in round one......and I don't care that they were lower in round one...they were first rounders. A QB drafted in round one is expected to become a team's franchise QB. So it is bollux to say that we have only gone the "build the team first before getting a QB" routel.
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well you do have to account for the fact that our last 3 first round QB's were all the second pick we made.....Thomas came ahead of Quinn.....Richardson came ahead of Weeds......Gilbert came ahead of Manziel...
So, in reality, it was team ahead of QB in 3 outta 4 .......and by taking other players first, it's also pretty clear that the Browns weren't sold on any of these guys as a franchise QBs, otherwise they wouldnt have risked losing them by picking other positions first....
So, not really bullox, but actually fact....
I think we just had 2 picks and decided we could risk the second one by throwing caution to the wind on players that we hoped might be good.....(emphasis on the word hoped, as opposed to expected)
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We have drafted 4 QBs in round one......and I don't care that they were lower in round one...they were first rounders. A QB drafted in round one is expected to become a team's franchise QB. So it is bollux to say that we have only gone the "build the team first before getting a QB" routel.
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well you do have to account for the fact that our last 3 first round QB's were all the second pick we made.....Thomas came ahead of Quinn.....Richardson came ahead of Weeds......Gilbert came ahead of Manziel...
So, in reality, it was team ahead of QB in 3 outta 4 .......and by taking other players first, it's also pretty clear that the Browns weren't sold on any of these guys as a franchise QBs, otherwise they wouldnt have risked losing them by picking other positions first....
So, not really bullox, but actually fact....
I think we just had 2 picks and decided we could risk the second one by throwing caution to the wind on players that we hoped might be good.....(emphasis on the word hoped, as opposed to expected)
They were still first round draft picks. And are you saying that it is not only in Cleveland that a first round draft pick is not expected to become a significantly productive starting player?
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No....what Im saying is that the Browns picked other players ahead of them, lending credence to Mics statement that they picked team development over QB in those drafts...
I think most people would say if you see your franchise QB sitting there, you dont draft other players first and just hope that your future drops to you....everyone knows QB's are drafted higher than their actual value(which you've been yelling about the past month with Wentz and Goff)....so, why all of a sudden switch your stance and say that just because they were (late) first round picks, you suddenly expect them to perform like it???....esp when you dont have the same expectation for Goff and Wentz....
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No....what Im saying is that the Browns picked other players ahead of them, lending credence to Mics statement that they picked team development over QB in those drafts...
I think most people would say if you see your franchise QB sitting there, you dont draft other players first and just hope that your future drops to you....everyone knows QB's are drafted higher than their actual value(which you've been yelling about the past month with Wentz and Goff)....so, why all of a sudden switch your stance and say that just because they were (late) first round picks, you suddenly expect them to perform like it???....esp when you dont have the same expectation for Goff and Wentz....
No....what Im saying is that the Browns picked other players ahead of them, lending credence to Mics statement that they picked team development over QB in those drafts...
I think most people would say if you see your franchise QB sitting there, you dont draft other players first and just hope that your future drops to you....everyone knows QB's are drafted higher than their actual value(which you've been yelling about the past month with Wentz and Goff)....so, why all of a sudden switch your stance and say that just because they were (late) first round picks, you suddenly expect them to perform like it???....esp when you dont have the same expectation for Goff and Wentz....
No, I WOULD have the same expectation of Goff and Wentz.....if they were drafted....Just like I had expectations of Weeden, Quinn, Manziel. But I question whether or not they will meet those expectations and that we may all again be disappointed. (only this time it would be worse as those would be #2 overall, not #22 overall).
Honestly...I expect every first round pick the Browns take to be Pro Bowl caliber. While, yes, I expect that.....clearly those expectations are rarely delivered upon. (and I am talking about any position...not just QB).
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Denver would have won the SB last year with Weedon throwing. Think about that. It's possible that if JM goes there they might be right back in the SB hunt next year. The only thing that keeps Denver out of the SB next year is if some AFC offensive line stops that defense.
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Well they've also lost a couple of key, but not irreplaceable players. Manning's LOS shenanigans will be hard to replace - they went with him over Osweiler for a reason - and Jackson & Trevathon were important players. They need to get the right QB, though he doesn't need to be a superstar, and they need to replace the middle of that front seven basically. But with Ware and Miller they'll always cause problems in the pass game, just need to sure up the run. Add to that their own problems protecting the QB (they tried to get JT for a reason), and there are enough holes to keep Elway on his toes, and necessitate some good drafting/dealing if they're to be back in the big game.
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Denver would have won the SB last year with Weedon throwing. Think about that. It's possible that if JM goes there they might be right back in the SB hunt next year. The only thing that keeps Denver out of the SB next year is if some AFC offensive line stops that defense.
Denver would have won the SB last year with Weedon throwing. Think about that. It's possible that if JM goes there they might be right back in the SB hunt next year.
OK.... there done... and, no... not with Wheezy.
And I'll throw in a second for free... also not with JM...
... there are enough holes to keep Elway on his toes, and necessitate some good drafting/dealing if they're to be back in the big game.
Yup... and the Raiders sure aren't standing pat.
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