Camp Wentz Part Deux
-
Nice link Mike- Showed what I needed to see. Kid doubtless has an NFL arm. Hue is gonna have to ask is he accurate enough.
@the-gipper said:
So, no John Elway he?
I mean, its great to see him do well.....against the thin air. But what about when he has to throw against NFL DBs...and with NFL DE's OLBs, DTs breathing down his neck. That is why these exercises are of such limited value.
I remember way back in '99 our UCF alum said he saw Duante Culpepper throw it 90 yards once. Heck, there's HS quarterbacks that can throw it 50 yards, but Wentz does it effortlessly.
-
Brandt: Wentz had one of best pro days I've ever witnessed
- By Chase Goodbread
- College Football 24/7 writer
- Published: March 24, 2016 at 12:43 p.m.
- Updated: March 24, 2016 at 01:28 p.m.
- 1 Likes | 16 Comments
A quarterback can only look so good to NFL scouts in a pro-day setting, where the environment is sterilized from pads, defenses and pressure situations, but Carson Wentz made as strong an impression as possible Thursday.
And the early reviews glowed.
NFL Media senior analyst Gil Brandt, with more than a half century of NFL scouting experience, called it one of the best pro days he's ever witnessed and said Wentz reminds him of former Super Bowl MVP Joe Flacco of the Baltimore Ravens. According to Brandt, Wentz completed 63 passes in a 65-throw script, with one overthrow and one drop. Brandt noted the best pro day by a quarterback he's seen came from thePhiladelphia Eagles' Sam Bradford, who was the No. 1 overall selection of the St. Louis Rams in the 2010 NFL Draft.
NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah was impressed with the workout as well, saying "That's an A if not an A-plus."
As he did last week with Cal quarterback Jared Goff, Cleveland Browns assistant coach Pep Hamilton followed Wentz's script by asking him to throw some extra passes with a ball doused with water. The first of those throws from Wentz fluttered and was badly underthrown.
"The first one obviously went right into the dirt," Wentz said with a laugh onNFL Network. "... It was pretty doused; that would've been a torrential downpour."
Wentz's session was witnessed by only 18 NFL clubs because of weather problems.
The narrative that Wentz and Goff are running even as the top two quarterbacks available in the 2016 NFL Draft is beginning to give way to a perceived edge for Wentz, the former North Dakota State quarterback who conducted his pro-day workout Thursday for NFL coaches and scouts. First, there was NFL Media analyst Charley Casserly, who polled 15 NFL executives about the two quarterbacks and found a majority of them favored Wentz. And Mayock is seeing things much the same.
"I've watched every game that he was in this year, and I'm more convinced than ever that he's the top quarterback in this draft," Mayock said on NFL HQ. " ... This kid controls the line of scrimmage. He's under center, he's in (shotgun), he controls all the pass protections, and he can make every throw."
Follow Chase Goodbread on Twitter @ChaseGoodbread.
Brandt: Wentz had one of best pro days I've ever witnessed- By Chase Goodbread
- College Football 24/7 writer
- Published: March 24, 2016 at 12:43 p.m.
- Updated: March 24, 2016 at 01:28 p.m.
- 1 Likes | 16 Comments
A quarterback can only look so good to NFL scouts in a pro-day setting, where the environment is sterilized from pads, defenses and pressure situations, but Carson Wentz made as strong an impression as possible Thursday.
And the early reviews glowed.
NFL Media senior analyst Gil Brandt, with more than a half century of NFL scouting experience, called it one of the best pro days he's ever witnessed and said Wentz reminds him of former Super Bowl MVP Joe Flacco of the Baltimore Ravens. According to Brandt, Wentz completed 63 passes in a 65-throw script, with one overthrow and one drop. Brandt noted the best pro day by a quarterback he's seen came from thePhiladelphia Eagles' Sam Bradford, who was the No. 1 overall selection of the St. Louis Rams in the 2010 NFL Draft.
Boy, that is damning him with faint praise.
NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah was impressed with the workout as well, saying "That's an A if not an A-plus."
As he did last week with Cal quarterback Jared Goff, Cleveland Browns assistant coach Pep Hamilton followed Wentz's script by asking him to throw some extra passes with a ball doused with water. The first of those throws from Wentz fluttered and was badly underthrown.
"The first one obviously went right into the dirt," Wentz said with a laugh onNFL Network. "... It was pretty doused; that would've been a torrential downpour."
OK, is that a bad sign?
Wentz's session was witnessed by only 18 NFL clubs because of weather problems.
The narrative that Wentz and Goff are running even as the top two quarterbacks available in the 2016 NFL Draft is beginning to give way to a perceived edge for Wentz, the former North Dakota State quarterback who conducted his pro-day workout Thursday for NFL coaches and scouts. First, there was NFL Media analyst Charley Casserly, who polled 15 NFL executives about the two quarterbacks and found a majority of them favored Wentz. And Mayock is seeing things much the same.
"I've watched every game that he was in this year, and I'm more convinced than ever that he's the top quarterback in this draft," Mayock said on NFL HQ. " ... This kid controls the line of scrimmage. He's under center, he's in (shotgun), he controls all the pass protections, and he can make every throw."
Follow Chase Goodbread on Twitter @ChaseGoodbread.
I guess we could take a Flacco or a BR....if that is what people think this kid could be.
-
Nice link Mike- Showed what I needed to see. Kid doubtless has an NFL arm. Hue is gonna have to ask is he accurate enough.
@the-gipper said:
So, no John Elway he?
I mean, its great to see him do well.....against the thin air. But what about when he has to throw against NFL DBs...and with NFL DE's OLBs, DTs breathing down his neck. That is why these exercises are of such limited value.
I remember way back in '99 our UCF alum said he saw Duante Culpepper throw it 90 yards once. Heck, there's HS quarterbacks that can throw it 50 yards, but Wentz does it effortlessly.
Nice link Mike- Showed what I needed to see. Kid doubtless has an NFL arm. Hue is gonna have to ask is he accurate enough.
I remember way back in '99 our UCF alum said he saw Duante Culpepper throw it 90 yards once. Heck, there's HS quarterbacks that can throw it 50 yards, but Wentz does it effortlessly.
If this guy becomes as good as Daunte Culpepper, that would probably be alright.
-
Nice link Mike- Showed what I needed to see. Kid doubtless has an NFL arm. Hue is gonna have to ask is he accurate enough.
I remember way back in '99 our UCF alum said he saw Duante Culpepper throw it 90 yards once. Heck, there's HS quarterbacks that can throw it 50 yards, but Wentz does it effortlessly.
If this guy becomes as good as Daunte Culpepper, that would probably be alright.
If this guy becomes as good as Daunte Culpepper, that would probably be alright.
Preferably the Minnesota version, not the Miami debacle.
-
Can you guess the QB's name?
"He showed us he can make all the throws," NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner said. "That deep ball was impeccable. Great touch, good enough velocity and was able to set it out there."
"I think he loves competition," NFL Media draft analyst Mike Mayock said. "He lights up like a Christmas tree with all these GMs here."
He completed 61 of 64 passes, and had one blemish with a throw that was too low, but was otherwise on target with just about every throw. One throw was caught out of bounds and the other incompletion was a drop.
Johnny Manziel's Pro Day.
Moral of the story, Pro Day's mean nothing.
-
Can you guess the QB's name?
"He showed us he can make all the throws," NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner said. "That deep ball was impeccable. Great touch, good enough velocity and was able to set it out there."
"I think he loves competition," NFL Media draft analyst Mike Mayock said. "He lights up like a Christmas tree with all these GMs here."
He completed 61 of 64 passes, and had one blemish with a throw that was too low, but was otherwise on target with just about every throw. One throw was caught out of bounds and the other incompletion was a drop.
Johnny Manziel's Pro Day.
Moral of the story, Pro Day's mean nothing.
Can you guess the QB's name?
"He showed us he can make all the throws," NFL Network analyst Kurt Warner said. "That deep ball was impeccable. Great touch, good enough velocity and was able to set it out there."
"I think he loves competition," NFL Media draft analyst Mike Mayock said. "He lights up like a Christmas tree with all these GMs here."
He completed 61 of 64 passes, and had one blemish with a throw that was too low, but was otherwise on target with just about every throw. One throw was caught out of bounds and the other incompletion was a drop.
Johnny Manziel's Pro Day.
Moral of the story, Pro Day's mean nothing.
Actually, the moral of the story is that nothing can be taken in a bubble.
But I fail to see where Wentz was thought to be undersized, or have off the field concerns, or a lack of experience exec thing pro concepts, or undisciplined.
-
Wentz is the anti-jm. There, I just annoyed my own self mentioning jm again. dammit.
After Wentz's pro day, I thought a few thoughts, I think.
1. Goff isn't able to zing the ball way down field with accuracy like Wentz can. Those long throws
were effortless, and it gets there very, very fast. Really beautiful touch on the ball.
2. Both Goff and Wentz throw a great catchable ball. Goff did fine throwing shorter? passes after the ball was doused.
Wentz had his first throw slip out and go into the ground. He laughed about it. However, if you go back and watch again,
Goff shook the water off before he threw it. Wentz tended to not shake it off. Who cares, but it is what it is.
3. Goff has great presence, so does Wentz. But Wentz has the much quicker, agile feet. I mean, for being 6'5",
he can shift and be elusive in the pocket - has great balance for that.
4. Seems to me, that his teammates admire and are friends with Wentz. They have fun. Maybe, Goff's teammates
don't have that close friendship....maybe I'm wrong. But Wentz is completely approachable. Goff seems a good bit
aloof. It's just something I think when I watch both being interviewed. Goff doesn't smile much. Wentz is a good
bit a smiler, laughs and is funny, humble. Goff never ? jokes much. Seems that it could be all about ...him.
5. Goff can really throw accurately, sees the field excellently, seems to me, from highlights of him. He's tough, tough
minded, and loves the game. Seems to be generally an introvert.. or something. Or, maybe he just seems very
tense and serious in interviews. Goff is very able to roll out, but isn't shifty and elusive like Wentz in the pocket.
6. Wentz missed two throws out of 65. The pace was faster than Goff's prod day workout... humorously, by design. The rest of the time, I marveled at how he can have touch on the ball, and
still there was power behind the throw, and they were right on the money. In the interview after his workout,
they were talking about Wentz and how in one game, (he calls all his own protections, per his coach), he read
the defense, picked up on a blitz key, and called the qb power run. He went for 27 yards, and actually juked
a safety to miss him during that play. Wentz LOVES the game, ...
7. Wentz, in high school, played both ways. He played lb and safety. He loved the contact of playing defense.
You gottal love this kid. Goff was always a qb. Don't know how he is about contact. He's been hit a lot.
Has fumbled a lot.
8. I just think it's Wentz. I can't imagine picking Goff with a choice of either qb.
-
after the sam Bradford comment y'all should have caught on that pro days don't mean shit.
-
You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
-
You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
Just make your point. What did Miller run? At combine and at pro day.
-
2) Joe Haden
Haden went into the 2010 combine graded as the draft’s top cornerback and a sure first-round pick out of Florida. He disappointed with a 4.57 40 and 35-inch vertical jump, leading to some speculation that he might drop towards the end of the first round. He didn’t. The Browns took him with the seventh overall pick and Haden has now made two Pro Bowls.
With that preamble out of the way, multiple NFL reporters at Tebowfest Florida’s Pro Day write that cornerback Joe Haden ran in the high 4.3’s/low 4.4’s.
That is a huge improvement on Haden’s sssslow time he ran at the combine. Whether it erases the perception Haden lacks speed is another matter.
-
You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
Just make your point. What did Miller run? At combine and at pro day.
Just make your point. What did Miller run? At combine and at pro day.
-
pro days CAN mean a lot. But not everything, by any stretch.
-
True, it's all factors. I guess I really am impressed with Wentz's intangibles, as much as I
think he has that as well, over Goff. Just seems that way to me.
-
I could have written much of this, but even I am not cruel enough to have written it all. It made me wince a few times and a couple of the play critiques do not ring true. Nonetheless it captures many of the summary elements that in total represent the gap I see between Wentz and Goff.
The Warts of Carson Wentz March 27, 2016 Cian Fahey
http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/27/the-warts-of-carson-wentz/
There are gifs a plenty illustrating the various points the writer makes.
Here are a few of the writer's conclusion that I also saw from the beginning:
- Throwing receivers open isn’t something Wentz does. He didn’t need to do it against the defenses he faced in college. Wentz would try to fit the ball over defenders, but was still rifling the ball rather than throwing with controlled elevation.
- He repeatedly throws the ball to where he sees the receiver rather than where the receiver is going.
- It’s not just that Wentz runs out of clean pockets either, he doesn’t feel pressure around him unless it arrives in his line of sight.
- Wentz primarily gets rid of the ball to his first read. He’s not exceptionally efficient doing this but he is better the quicker he gets rid of the ball. When he holds onto the ball and moves his eyes from one side of the field to the other, his play becomes looser.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Sure, Wentz isn't perfect. Neither was rapistbooger. I do believe that Wentz is excellently coachable,
excellent athletic, and excellently very, very smart. Ya can't coach intangibles... and I wonder about
Goff having them. Yes, these were the negatives about rapistbooger. Wentz is the superior qb,
especially when compared to what rapistbooger was when he was nearing the draft.
************************************************************
http://bigben7.com/bens-path-to-the-draft-part-i/
Negatives –
A pocket passer with marginal mobility and cannot escape the rush. Must improve his downfield accuracy as well as the placement of the outs. Majority of snaps are taken out of the shotgun.“In 2004, Big Ben entered the draft as a junior and did not have the benefit of postseason All Star Games. His draft grade was heavily reliant on the combine and he did not perform well. He was inaccurate with his passes throughout his workout and as a result became the third quarterback chosen in the ’04 draft.”— Sports Illustrated,posted February 20, 2009. -
I could have written much of this, but even I am not cruel enough to have written it all. It made me wince a few times and a couple of the play critiques do not ring true. Nonetheless it captures many of the summary elements that in total represent the gap I see between Wentz and Goff.
The Warts of Carson Wentz March 27, 2016 Cian Fahey
http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/27/the-warts-of-carson-wentz/
There are gifs a plenty illustrating the various points the writer makes.
Here are a few of the writer's conclusion that I also saw from the beginning:
- Throwing receivers open isn’t something Wentz does. He didn’t need to do it against the defenses he faced in college. Wentz would try to fit the ball over defenders, but was still rifling the ball rather than throwing with controlled elevation.
- He repeatedly throws the ball to where he sees the receiver rather than where the receiver is going.
- It’s not just that Wentz runs out of clean pockets either, he doesn’t feel pressure around him unless it arrives in his line of sight.
- Wentz primarily gets rid of the ball to his first read. He’s not exceptionally efficient doing this but he is better the quicker he gets rid of the ball. When he holds onto the ball and moves his eyes from one side of the field to the other, his play becomes looser.
I could have written much of this, but even I am not cruel enough to have written it all. It made me wince a few times and a couple of the play critiques do not ring true. Nonetheless it captures many of the summary elements that in total represent the gap I see between Wentz and Goff.
The Warts of Carson Wentz March 27, 2016 Cian Fahey
http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/27/the-warts-of-carson-wentz/
There are gifs a plenty illustrating the various points the writer makes.
Here are a few of the writer's conclusion that I also saw from the beginning:
- Throwing receivers open isn’t something Wentz does. He didn’t need to do it against the defenses he faced in college. Wentz would try to fit the ball over defenders, but was still rifling the ball rather than throwing with controlled elevation.
- He repeatedly throws the ball to where he sees the receiver rather than where the receiver is going.
- It’s not just that Wentz runs out of clean pockets either, he doesn’t feel pressure around him unless it arrives in his line of sight.
- Wentz primarily gets rid of the ball to his first read. He’s not exceptionally efficient doing this but he is better the quicker he gets rid of the ball. When he holds onto the ball and moves his eyes from one side of the field to the other, his play becomes looser.
Went through all of the link Tour. It does give you plenty of food for thought. Carson was largely operating from a clean pocket against D II secondaries. NFL CBs will be a lot more attentive, and you to have to have anticipation where your receiver will be when he breaks open. I noticed in some other tape, Wentz rarely had to go through a full progression to find someone wide open. Might be enough to tilt me over to the Goff side of the fence.
-
Only a fool would pick Wentz over Goff.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login