Camp Wentz Part Deux
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Wentz is the anti-jm. There, I just annoyed my own self mentioning jm again. dammit.
After Wentz's pro day, I thought a few thoughts, I think.
1. Goff isn't able to zing the ball way down field with accuracy like Wentz can. Those long throws
were effortless, and it gets there very, very fast. Really beautiful touch on the ball.
2. Both Goff and Wentz throw a great catchable ball. Goff did fine throwing shorter? passes after the ball was doused.
Wentz had his first throw slip out and go into the ground. He laughed about it. However, if you go back and watch again,
Goff shook the water off before he threw it. Wentz tended to not shake it off. Who cares, but it is what it is.
3. Goff has great presence, so does Wentz. But Wentz has the much quicker, agile feet. I mean, for being 6'5",
he can shift and be elusive in the pocket - has great balance for that.
4. Seems to me, that his teammates admire and are friends with Wentz. They have fun. Maybe, Goff's teammates
don't have that close friendship....maybe I'm wrong. But Wentz is completely approachable. Goff seems a good bit
aloof. It's just something I think when I watch both being interviewed. Goff doesn't smile much. Wentz is a good
bit a smiler, laughs and is funny, humble. Goff never ? jokes much. Seems that it could be all about ...him.
5. Goff can really throw accurately, sees the field excellently, seems to me, from highlights of him. He's tough, tough
minded, and loves the game. Seems to be generally an introvert.. or something. Or, maybe he just seems very
tense and serious in interviews. Goff is very able to roll out, but isn't shifty and elusive like Wentz in the pocket.
6. Wentz missed two throws out of 65. The pace was faster than Goff's prod day workout... humorously, by design. The rest of the time, I marveled at how he can have touch on the ball, and
still there was power behind the throw, and they were right on the money. In the interview after his workout,
they were talking about Wentz and how in one game, (he calls all his own protections, per his coach), he read
the defense, picked up on a blitz key, and called the qb power run. He went for 27 yards, and actually juked
a safety to miss him during that play. Wentz LOVES the game, ...
7. Wentz, in high school, played both ways. He played lb and safety. He loved the contact of playing defense.
You gottal love this kid. Goff was always a qb. Don't know how he is about contact. He's been hit a lot.
Has fumbled a lot.
8. I just think it's Wentz. I can't imagine picking Goff with a choice of either qb.
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after the sam Bradford comment y'all should have caught on that pro days don't mean shit.
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You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
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You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
Just make your point. What did Miller run? At combine and at pro day.
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2) Joe Haden
Haden went into the 2010 combine graded as the draft’s top cornerback and a sure first-round pick out of Florida. He disappointed with a 4.57 40 and 35-inch vertical jump, leading to some speculation that he might drop towards the end of the first round. He didn’t. The Browns took him with the seventh overall pick and Haden has now made two Pro Bowls.
With that preamble out of the way, multiple NFL reporters at Tebowfest Florida’s Pro Day write that cornerback Joe Haden ran in the high 4.3’s/low 4.4’s.
That is a huge improvement on Haden’s sssslow time he ran at the combine. Whether it erases the perception Haden lacks speed is another matter.
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You are stupidly missing the point. Pro days are a small indicator. Nobody said
pro days were the only factor.
If a guy runs a 4.6, and a 4.5 at the combine, and then runs a 4.38 at his pro day...
do you think the 4.38 means nothing? Go look at the faster time Braxton Miller
ran at his pro day.
Just make your point. What did Miller run? At combine and at pro day.
Just make your point. What did Miller run? At combine and at pro day.
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pro days CAN mean a lot. But not everything, by any stretch.
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True, it's all factors. I guess I really am impressed with Wentz's intangibles, as much as I
think he has that as well, over Goff. Just seems that way to me.
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I could have written much of this, but even I am not cruel enough to have written it all. It made me wince a few times and a couple of the play critiques do not ring true. Nonetheless it captures many of the summary elements that in total represent the gap I see between Wentz and Goff.
The Warts of Carson Wentz March 27, 2016 Cian Fahey
http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/27/the-warts-of-carson-wentz/
There are gifs a plenty illustrating the various points the writer makes.
Here are a few of the writer's conclusion that I also saw from the beginning:
- Throwing receivers open isn’t something Wentz does. He didn’t need to do it against the defenses he faced in college. Wentz would try to fit the ball over defenders, but was still rifling the ball rather than throwing with controlled elevation.
- He repeatedly throws the ball to where he sees the receiver rather than where the receiver is going.
- It’s not just that Wentz runs out of clean pockets either, he doesn’t feel pressure around him unless it arrives in his line of sight.
- Wentz primarily gets rid of the ball to his first read. He’s not exceptionally efficient doing this but he is better the quicker he gets rid of the ball. When he holds onto the ball and moves his eyes from one side of the field to the other, his play becomes looser.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Sure, Wentz isn't perfect. Neither was rapistbooger. I do believe that Wentz is excellently coachable,
excellent athletic, and excellently very, very smart. Ya can't coach intangibles... and I wonder about
Goff having them. Yes, these were the negatives about rapistbooger. Wentz is the superior qb,
especially when compared to what rapistbooger was when he was nearing the draft.
************************************************************
http://bigben7.com/bens-path-to-the-draft-part-i/
Negatives –
A pocket passer with marginal mobility and cannot escape the rush. Must improve his downfield accuracy as well as the placement of the outs. Majority of snaps are taken out of the shotgun.“In 2004, Big Ben entered the draft as a junior and did not have the benefit of postseason All Star Games. His draft grade was heavily reliant on the combine and he did not perform well. He was inaccurate with his passes throughout his workout and as a result became the third quarterback chosen in the ’04 draft.”— Sports Illustrated,posted February 20, 2009. -
I could have written much of this, but even I am not cruel enough to have written it all. It made me wince a few times and a couple of the play critiques do not ring true. Nonetheless it captures many of the summary elements that in total represent the gap I see between Wentz and Goff.
The Warts of Carson Wentz March 27, 2016 Cian Fahey
http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/27/the-warts-of-carson-wentz/
There are gifs a plenty illustrating the various points the writer makes.
Here are a few of the writer's conclusion that I also saw from the beginning:
- Throwing receivers open isn’t something Wentz does. He didn’t need to do it against the defenses he faced in college. Wentz would try to fit the ball over defenders, but was still rifling the ball rather than throwing with controlled elevation.
- He repeatedly throws the ball to where he sees the receiver rather than where the receiver is going.
- It’s not just that Wentz runs out of clean pockets either, he doesn’t feel pressure around him unless it arrives in his line of sight.
- Wentz primarily gets rid of the ball to his first read. He’s not exceptionally efficient doing this but he is better the quicker he gets rid of the ball. When he holds onto the ball and moves his eyes from one side of the field to the other, his play becomes looser.
I could have written much of this, but even I am not cruel enough to have written it all. It made me wince a few times and a couple of the play critiques do not ring true. Nonetheless it captures many of the summary elements that in total represent the gap I see between Wentz and Goff.
The Warts of Carson Wentz March 27, 2016 Cian Fahey
http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/27/the-warts-of-carson-wentz/
There are gifs a plenty illustrating the various points the writer makes.
Here are a few of the writer's conclusion that I also saw from the beginning:
- Throwing receivers open isn’t something Wentz does. He didn’t need to do it against the defenses he faced in college. Wentz would try to fit the ball over defenders, but was still rifling the ball rather than throwing with controlled elevation.
- He repeatedly throws the ball to where he sees the receiver rather than where the receiver is going.
- It’s not just that Wentz runs out of clean pockets either, he doesn’t feel pressure around him unless it arrives in his line of sight.
- Wentz primarily gets rid of the ball to his first read. He’s not exceptionally efficient doing this but he is better the quicker he gets rid of the ball. When he holds onto the ball and moves his eyes from one side of the field to the other, his play becomes looser.
Went through all of the link Tour. It does give you plenty of food for thought. Carson was largely operating from a clean pocket against D II secondaries. NFL CBs will be a lot more attentive, and you to have to have anticipation where your receiver will be when he breaks open. I noticed in some other tape, Wentz rarely had to go through a full progression to find someone wide open. Might be enough to tilt me over to the Goff side of the fence.
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Only a fool would pick Wentz over Goff.
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Only a fool would pick Goff, if he doesn't have the intangibles like Wentz has, and
with arm strength that won't make it in the wind and rain.
Just not sold on Goff, except for he's very polished, and a lot more ready to play immediately.
The Browns don't have to worry about that.
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Only a fool would pick Goff, if he doesn't have the intangibles like Wentz has, and
with arm strength that won't make it in the wind and rain.
Just not sold on Goff, except for he's very polished, and a lot more ready to play immediately.
The Browns don't have to worry about that.
Only a fool would pick Goff, if he doesn't have the intangibles like Wentz has, and
with arm strength that won't make it in the wind and rain.
Just not sold on Goff, except for he's very polished, and a lot more ready to play immediately.
The Browns don't have to worry about that.
If I have no idea what either players' "intangibles" are, then does that make them equal?
Their arm strength is not very different. I thought Wentz had the stronger arm as well, but then Goff won the fast ball competition at the Combine.
Wentz's lack of readiness to play may not concern you in 2016 ... but by 2018 you will be very concerned.
I take the guy I know can play now because he has already shown he has taken that last QB step. That in a word is the gap...
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@PFF_College
Carson Wentz adjusted completion percentage:
11-20 yard range: 70.7% (2nd in draft class
21-30 yard range: 43.5% (23rd in draft class)
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Great read:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/15158945/does-north-dakota-state-qb-carson-wentz-really-add-20m
Maybe it means nothing. Maybe they'll draft someone else instead. But as he's walking toward Jackson, both of them already eager to catch a plane, Hamilton can't resist catching Jackson's eye and offering his silent, one-word review: Wow.
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I was watching Detone Jones, DE, of the Packers talk about
Aaron Rodgers. He said Rodgers was so great because
he was really, really smart....that he got his wr's to learn the defenses,
won the celebrity trivia game whatever it was.....
Wentz is a whole lot like Rodgers. Doesn't matter that much that Goff is
the best pure passer in the draft.
There's a hell of a lot more to qb'ing that just being the best passer.
Wentz has it all.
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Yeah.... who wants the "best passer"? Yuck...
That was a good read... very well written article.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Yeah.... who wants the "best passer"? Yuck...
That was a good read... very well written article.
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