2016 qb's rated
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I have both of them recorded. Here's what I think...
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/4558673-pocket-passers-no-longer-future-for-qbs-in-nfl
and,
http://nflbreakdowns.com/jared-goff-qb-cal-nfldraft2016/2/
I agree that Goff is the "best pure passer" in the draft. But Goff isn't averse to criticism for some things
that have been said about Wentz.
Either guy is fine by me, but Wentz is my favorite because of intangibles, quicker feet, more elusive in the pocket,
more a threat to run, imhso.
Of all the great things in the article about him, he isn't perfect, either.
"Goff does not go through his progressions very often on film. While at Cal Goff ran what is known as the “Bear Raid” offense, a variation on the Air Raid offense."
"First, Goff’s receiver is running a comeback route. Goff tries to throw it to his receiver anyway even though he’s in very tight coverage. The corner gets a better jump on this ball than the receiver and makes the interception. Goff trusted his receiver far too much on this play and made a throw that he simply shouldn’t have made. This type of coverage is hard to make a catch with in the first place, even if the receiver is able to get away from the corner in time to make the catch."
"Next, Goff just makes a bad decision under pressure. Backing away from the defense, and throwing off his back foot, Goff makes a very bad decision trying to get this pass to a receiver in good coverage."
"Finally, you can see how Goff locks onto his receiver running a deep post and how he tries to force this pass in to his receiver. From the first angle you can see how he has a receiver open over the middle, but tries to force this ball in to his deep man. From the second angle you get a better idea of what he saw on the play. You can see the corner in coverage the entire time with the receiver. This an extremely bad decision by Goff and shows that while he can make some great decisions, he will still lock onto his receivers and make very bad decisions once he convinces himself of the throw he has to make."
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I have both of them recorded. Here's what I think...
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl-news/4558673-pocket-passers-no-longer-future-for-qbs-in-nfl
and,
http://nflbreakdowns.com/jared-goff-qb-cal-nfldraft2016/2/
I agree that Goff is the "best pure passer" in the draft. But Goff isn't averse to criticism for some things
that have been said about Wentz.
Either guy is fine by me, but Wentz is my favorite because of intangibles, quicker feet, more elusive in the pocket,
more a threat to run, imhso.
Of all the great things in the article about him, he isn't perfect, either.
"Goff does not go through his progressions very often on film. While at Cal Goff ran what is known as the “Bear Raid” offense, a variation on the Air Raid offense."
"First, Goff’s receiver is running a comeback route. Goff tries to throw it to his receiver anyway even though he’s in very tight coverage. The corner gets a better jump on this ball than the receiver and makes the interception. Goff trusted his receiver far too much on this play and made a throw that he simply shouldn’t have made. This type of coverage is hard to make a catch with in the first place, even if the receiver is able to get away from the corner in time to make the catch."
"Next, Goff just makes a bad decision under pressure. Backing away from the defense, and throwing off his back foot, Goff makes a very bad decision trying to get this pass to a receiver in good coverage."
"Finally, you can see how Goff locks onto his receiver running a deep post and how he tries to force this pass in to his receiver. From the first angle you can see how he has a receiver open over the middle, but tries to force this ball in to his deep man. From the second angle you get a better idea of what he saw on the play. You can see the corner in coverage the entire time with the receiver. This an extremely bad decision by Goff and shows that while he can make some great decisions, he will still lock onto his receivers and make very bad decisions once he convinces himself of the throw he has to make."
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Saw just a bit of it. It will likely be repeated. Interesting. And of course....you can tell nothing from it.
Odd conclusion from someone who has not seen all of both of them...
Odd conclusion from someone who has not seen all of both of them...
It is a generalization. I have seen any number of these in the past where Gruden says these guys are going to be the greatest thing since sliced boloney......and they have been complete busts. Take JMZ for instance. Gruden gave him glowing review.
Ah....No.
So, I have learned not to trust them....but to be occasionally entertained by them.
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Jason La Canfora apparently says it's Goff.
I would bet a lot of money that is true unless it's somebody else.
WSS
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Exactly my point. In the very same article, read about Wentz - who was given COMPLETE control pre-snap.
Goff's own OC admitted that Goff was allowed to change between only two plays pre-snap, the called play and one alternate. Conversely, Wentz was given carte blanche to change any play, at any given time, to any other play he wanted.
Goff's own OC admitted that Goff adjusted his protection on "about 10%" of plays. Conversely, in the very same article, Wentz is credited with changing his protection on 100% of plays.
Goff really only had full control to change routes on designated passing plays.
So, if you want your quarterback to walk to the line, read man off 2-deep shell coverage with a blitzing weakside OLB and then call off his run play, slide his protection to the blitz, audible his slot WR to a deep post, hot the TE, and send his RB on block and release...don't expect Goff to be able to do that off the bat.
How do you check to "any play" when personnel packages limit that ability? And here's the Coaches quote:
"There’s going to be multiple times in a game where he checks from run to pass."
If NDSU had a Center that could call protections, then would he not have done so? Which is more important... making the initial call based upon early pre-snap look, or making adjustments based upon the Defense tipping its intent?
How do you check to "any play" when personnel packages limit that ability? And here's the Coaches quote:
"Theres going to be multiple times in a game where he checks from run to pass."
If NDSU had a Center that could call protections, then would he not have done so? Which is more important... making the initial call based upon early pre-snap look, or making adjustments based upon the Defense tipping its intent?
Picking a very small point in hopes of unraveling my argument shows that you recognize the truth. You know, just as I do, that there is a monumental difference between having full pre-snap control and getting essentially dual playcalls and choosing between those only two.
Further, only a true fanboy can take the fact that Goff barely called his protections and try to spin that into a positive.
You have your opinion and it won't change, but I'll at least present BOTH quotes from the same article...because I'm nice like that.
"Under Franklin, Goff had the ability to choose between the called run play and an alternate pass play, and vice versa, based on the alignment of the defense. Goff had the ability to audible individual routes on pass plays, and Franklin estimates he adjusted the protection scheme on about 10% of passing plays."
"Like Goff, Wentz had the ability in an injury-shortened 2015 season to check to a prescribed run or pass play with an additional check the coaches simply called Carson. If Wentz recognized a trouble situation, he could spout any play in the book. Additionally, Wentz was required to call out the protection on every pass play, a job for most NFL centers."
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Anyone else caught the full Gruden Camp episodes with Goff and Wentz?
Chucky making Wentz a "2 handed Monster" ala Carson Palmer? Palmer may need a 2nd class. Wentz with two 10" hands, it maybe some of the best advise he's been given. Thought Wentz took criticism well & kid looks coachable. Welcome back T, you get the hail storm?
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Get back after you've watched them...
I watched both of them two times. Bad assumption... Watching them more than once
was the reason I recorded them..eh?
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How do you check to "any play" when personnel packages limit that ability? And here's the Coaches quote:
"Theres going to be multiple times in a game where he checks from run to pass."
If NDSU had a Center that could call protections, then would he not have done so? Which is more important... making the initial call based upon early pre-snap look, or making adjustments based upon the Defense tipping its intent?
Picking a very small point in hopes of unraveling my argument shows that you recognize the truth. You know, just as I do, that there is a monumental difference between having full pre-snap control and getting essentially dual playcalls and choosing between those only two.
Further, only a true fanboy can take the fact that Goff barely called his protections and try to spin that into a positive.
You have your opinion and it won't change, but I'll at least present BOTH quotes from the same article...because I'm nice like that.
"Under Franklin, Goff had the ability to choose between the called run play and an alternate pass play, and vice versa, based on the alignment of the defense. Goff had the ability to audible individual routes on pass plays, and Franklin estimates he adjusted the protection scheme on about 10% of passing plays."
"Like Goff, Wentz had the ability in an injury-shortened 2015 season to check to a prescribed run or pass play with an additional check the coaches simply called Carson. If Wentz recognized a trouble situation, he could spout any play in the book. Additionally, Wentz was required to call out the protection on every pass play, a job for most NFL centers."
Picking a very small point in hopes of unraveling my argument shows that you recognize the truth. You know, just as I do, that there is a monumental difference between having full pre-snap control and getting essentially dual playcalls and choosing between those only two.
Further, only a true fanboy can take the fact that Goff barely called his protections and try to spin that into a positive.
You have your opinion and it won't change, but I'll at least present BOTH quotes from the same article...because I'm nice like that.
"Under Franklin, Goff had the ability to choose between the called run play and an alternate pass play, and vice versa, based on the alignment of the defense. Goff had the ability to audible individual routes on pass plays, and Franklin estimates he adjusted the protection scheme on about 10% of passing plays."
"Like Goff, Wentz had the ability in an injury-shortened 2015 season to check to a prescribed run or pass play with an additional check the coaches simply called Carson. If Wentz recognized a trouble situation, he could spout any play in the book. Additionally, Wentz was required to call out the protection on every pass play, a job for most NFL centers."
Guess I'll just have to call you "High Road" from now on...
Agree that my opinion is unlikely to change now as I have neither read nor seen anything to change it to date.
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Odd then that you did not make one comment about either session?
Odd, maybe.
It's part of my impressions. Had I referenced the shows, and talked about them, you and Tiam
would have complained that I thought I was an expert.
I just have my opinions, of different highlights, interviews, and the workouts. Workouts can
be scripted to a point, interviews by Gruden not so much. Gruden's shows probably make
all sorts of qb's look really good. The difference in Wentz's workout, and Goff's workout...
I didn't see them whapping Goff with pool floaties, and Goff is like a dour stick in the mud in
most any interview, and Wentz is a fun interview, has a sense of humor.
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