"Believeland" film debuts on espn tonight
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I thought Believeland was well done. I remembered how bad our defense played the day of the fumble and if it wasn't for Byner throwing the team on his back - that score would have been an embarassing blowout rather than 1 guy's fault allegedly. Therefore, when I heard Byner say Big Daddy Hairston told him he blew it - I lost every ounce of respect I had for Hairston. It was our defense that got Raggedy Anned for 38 points.
All that said, Joe Gibbs isn't a stupid guy so he traded us a little horse jockey from Puget Sound (Mike Oliphant) that could run 4.3 forties for a RB he could look to as his work horse for a Superbowl Championship. While Byner got scapegoated for a defense that gave up 38 points on 1 team, look how important he was to a team willing to play some defense in the post season. Was that game really about 1 Fumble or a defense that disappeared like a Houdini Rabbit? This is the most disappointing thing about hearing any fan that watched that entire game think Byner was the only reason we lost. He was actually the only reason that game was competitive when you get right down to it.
I thought Believeland was well done. I remembered how bad our defense played the day of the fumble and if it wasn't for Byner throwing the team on his back - that score would have been an embarassing blowout rather than 1 guy's fault allegedly. Therefore, when I heard Byner say Big Daddy Hairston told him he blew it - I lost every ounce of respect I had for Hairston. It was our defense that got Raggedy Anned for 38 points.
All that said, Joe Gibbs isn't a stupid guy so he traded us a little horse jockey from Puget Sound (Mike Oliphant) that could run 4.3 forties for a RB he could look to as his work horse for a Superbowl Championship. While Byner got scapegoated for a defense that gave up 38 points on 1 team, look how important he was to a team willing to play some defense in the post season. Was that game really about 1 Fumble or a defense that disappeared like a Houdini Rabbit? This is the most disappointing thing about hearing any fan that watched that entire game think Byner was the only reason we lost. He was actually the only reason that game was competitive when you get right down to it.
I still blame Marty for going ultra- conservative and coaching like chicken shit charlie and playing that awful prevent defense that prevents victories. I still hate him a Belicheat!.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Was brutal to watch. Stopped watching after the tribe piece.,,,,will finish it later but i was like ive had enough of this relive.
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Was brutal to watch. Stopped watching after the tribe piece.,,,,will finish it later but i was like ive had enough of this relive.
Was brutal to watch. Stopped watching after the tribe piece.,,,,will finish it later but i was like ive had enough of this relive.
Hold on a second though.
I'm not ashamed of those 80s teams at all. Brian Sipe wasn't supposed to be NFL material before he erased enough late second half deficits to be an NFL MVP. A lot of those games that season were far from pretty or showcasing any evidence we could dominate anybody like most champions are prone to doing on their way to #1 at the end. In fact, that team Sipe earned MVP honors for needed to be called the Kardiac Kids partly because of how we closed games and partly because we put ourselves in that situation.
Earnest Byner was a 10th round draft pick which = undrafted in today's 7 round draft. The next time Denver played, they got Rathoused into hiding rather than feeling fortunate they were in the Superbowl. Same thing held true when Elway had nowhere to run or hide vrs NY the previous Superbowl. I don't think the NY Giants was nearly the matchup made in Heaven some thought it would have been especially if Marty's post season ass pucker game plans put us in check mate from the onset. My favorite 2 QBs were Kosar and Sipe here while Mack and Byner were pretty FREAKIN fun to watch as well.
When we make a Championship Game, the tippy top of our franchise will have everything set for us to step into rightful football fate as our storied franchise beginnings remind us. When Cleveland frequented Pro Football Title Games in 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954 and 1955 - the Browns won 7 of the 10 consecutive championships they made; and 3 of those were in the NFL between 50 and 55. The last time we won a Title Game in 1964, it counted on a lot of the players Paul Brown draftees even though that was the only Championship Cleveland won after Modell's ego chased Paul out of town. All those years we had the best Ownership (pre-Art), best Head Coach, best QB (Otto Graham) - the stars and planets aligned for a dynasty. That's what happens when you have it all. When you get right down to it, that set-up was so good - Cleveland was actually tougher to beat in the post season before Jim Brown arrived when you get right down to it.
For all that Paul Brown set-up in Cleveland - I'm more sorry about losing him than any of those post season games after he was gone. I had a blast following this team in the 80s compared to what I've witnessed since 1999; but I never got the feeling we had it all from the top-down the way Cleveland did when they kicked off their franchise as a Pro Football Dynasty. And who forget Art bringing in Raymond Clayborn (in his mid 30s) to pay him more cake than a vet like Clay Matthews and others? That was type of shit that guy perpetuated.
At least Jimmy's ego could admit he made some rookie mistakes here to the extent we've witnessed his efforts to own and resolve them sooner than later. As a fan, it's exciting to see a plan in place from our FO and a confident HC that firmly believes he can win here if our Owner and FO permits it. That draft we just saw looked like a cohesiveness that's been missing. Nobody is saying we added 14 perfect draft picks and perfect FAs; but these sure look like the guys our HC and FO wanted for what they're planning to improve. In a passing era Ray Farmer remains unaware of, this draft gave us the top 2 guys at sacking the QB while making an effort to improve the WR Corps. We also added 2 offensive linemen, 2 DBs, 2 LBers and a partridge in a pear tree. I don't get the impression Hue feels like he'll be playing gridiron chess with pawns.
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I had to hit pause when I caught Byner crying. That probably wasn't even the 'worst' of it.
That shit hits you hard and damn, I found myself crying as well.
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Im not ashamed of those 80's teams either. In fact id kill to bring some of those people back into the organization like bernie. Heck i was wantin marty back while he was still coaching. If he still wanted one more go at it id bring him back in a heartbeat if hue's gone after a year or two.
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I had to hit pause when I caught Byner crying. That probably wasn't even the 'worst' of it.
That shit hits you hard and damn, I found myself crying as well.
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wasnt brutal at all to watch....
hard yes but its not the end
theres Always next year!
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For me the old dude (the fan with his grandson) and the bearded dude (the writer) who talked in many of bridge segments made the show. Loved their reflections and insights... Both added new depth to the all too familiar story-lines.
While the Browns' history dominated, it was good to see members of the killer Tribe line up of the 90's... Lofton... Thome... Nagy... and Grover. The latter having the line of the show: "I'll let you know when it happens."
For me the old dude (the fan with his grandson) and the bearded dude (the writer) who talked in many of bridge segments made the show. Loved their reflections and insights... Both added new depth to the all too familiar story-lines.
While the Browns' history dominated, it was good to see members of the killer Tribe line up of the 90's... Lofton... Thome... Nagy... and Grover. The latter having the line of the show: "I'll let you know when it happens."
He's got a great voice but I'm not sure that he has any connection to Cleveland whatever (the bearded dude). Certainly spoke about it from a distant perspective ("I can't imagine being from Cleveland.") He was the narrator for Roll Tide/War Eagle.
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Nobody cared more than Ernest Byner. That's the tradgedy of The Fumble.
We already know all of this shit .., but if you have a loved one who is not up to speed, this is required viewing for them. Only way they will ever remotely understand you.
Z
Zombo said:
Nobody cared more than Ernest Byner. That's the tradgedy of The Fumble.
We already know all of this shit .., but if you have a loved one who is not up to speed, this is required viewing for them. Only way they will ever remotely understand you.
Z
It was brutal reliving all that stuff....
For me the old dude (the fan with his grandson) and the bearded dude (the writer) who talked in many of bridge segments made the show. Loved their reflections and insights... Both added new depth to the all too familiar story-lines.
While the Browns' history dominated, it was good to see members of the killer Tribe line up of the 90's... Lofton... Thome... Nagy... and Grover. The latter having the line of the show: "I'll let you know when it happens."
Yeah- I put the goat horns on Hargrove for the WS loss. His setup guys were mowing 'em down- and what did he do? Goes by the book, puts in Jose Make a Messa, who had been pitching poorly= another heartbreaking loss.
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Oh god listening to jim dinovan talk about how they were wheeling the trophy and champaign into the indians lockerroom. I turned it off not long after
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Zombo said:
Nobody cared more than Ernest Byner. That's the tradgedy of The Fumble.
We already know all of this shit .., but if you have a loved one who is not up to speed, this is required viewing for them. Only way they will ever remotely understand you.
Z
It was brutal reliving all that stuff....
For me the old dude (the fan with his grandson) and the bearded dude (the writer) who talked in many of bridge segments made the show. Loved their reflections and insights... Both added new depth to the all too familiar story-lines.
While the Browns' history dominated, it was good to see members of the killer Tribe line up of the 90's... Lofton... Thome... Nagy... and Grover. The latter having the line of the show: "I'll let you know when it happens."
Yeah- I put the goat horns on Hargrove for the WS loss. His setup guys were mowing 'em down- and what did he do? Goes by the book, puts in Jose Make a Messa, who had been pitching poorly= another heartbreaking loss.
It was brutal reliving all that stuff....
Yeah- I put the goat horns on Hargrove for the WS loss. His setup guys were mowing 'em down- and what did he do? Goes by the book, puts in Jose Make a Messa, who had been pitching poorly= another heartbreaking loss.
Hargrove lived and died by the book.. His stupidity along with Jeff Newman's cost us 30 wins a season.. I still hate both those idiots.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
That kid doesn't love CLE. He said it just to make his das happy
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It was brutal reliving all that stuff....
Yeah- I put the goat horns on Hargrove for the WS loss. His setup guys were mowing 'em down- and what did he do? Goes by the book, puts in Jose Make a Messa, who had been pitching poorly= another heartbreaking loss.
Hargrove lived and died by the book.. His stupidity along with Jeff Newman's cost us 30 wins a season.. I still hate both those idiots.
Hargrove lived and died by the book.. His stupidity along with Jeff Newman's cost us 30 wins a season.. I still hate both those idiots.
really?
man you hate a lot of people.
marty (prob 2nd best coach browns ever had)
belichick (do i even have to say?)
hargrove (got a lot out of those teams and more than any other coach)
newman (?)
but i bet you thought rutigliano was awesome.
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i forgot how good the marty era was. grew up with the kardiac kids BUT the dawg pound and the power running tandem of mack and byner.......
c'mon man! anyone that hates on that is just STOOPID!
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If bring marty back in s heartbeat i dont care.
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Also made u appreciate kosar more.
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VesnaKociper said:
Tom, favorite players you named were Modell players, and Art knew football a hell of a lot better than Haslam and Hue. The list of great players taken by Art, and many of them with his direct influence............ Kosar, Greg Pruit, Alzado, Strock and Danielson, Mitchell, on and on it goes.
As far as Paul Brown goes, he was ALWAYS involved in getting the BEST............ THE TOP................ THE DIFFERENCE MAKERS............ Other than Munoz, he didn't use high picks on shit OL. I am sure you know that Paul Brown would have cut Jim Brown. Ernie Davis dying saved Jim Brown's career as a Brown, and cost us the great Bobby Mitchell. Trading Mitchell, and bringing in a guy to replace Brown, without telling Modell, while Art was in flight.........was not a bright thing to do............... so yeah, his ass got fired, as it should have. Of course, it was Modell who loaned money to get PB his franchise in Cinci.
What PB DIDN"T do, was jack-off all over his first round picks and give them away in return for shit players who really have slim to no chance of ever panning out.
Hate Modell all you wan, but head-to-head versus Haslam and Lerner, Modell shits on both of them.
If I scramble Art I come up with Rat. I don't care what he did in Ratville.
Otto Graham was Paul Brown's player. He's the only Pro Football QB I know of that took his team to 10 consecutive Pro Football Championships and won 7 of them (3 of his wins were in those he attended from 50 through 55). The combines today are from a lot of the assessment criteria he innovated/established. One of the assistant coaches he selected in Cincy (Bill Walsh), went on to kick off a dynasty in SF using his Offense.
All the championships faded here once the personnel being added was no longer Paul Brown's. 64 still included a lot of his guys.
Art made bad deals. Raymond Clayborn, Lyle Alzado, Andre Rison. Yeah, the 80s were fun for me but being born back in 1964 - that's a pretty short golden era he provided for guys my age before he buried the franchise.
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As a fan of Denver at the time Elway broke the hearts of you guys here, I got to see it from your perspective in the backdrop of everything that had happened since '64. I thought it was a great piece and well worth watching to any sports fan from anywhere USA. I knew what I was joining when I came here after JFF was drafted. Being a long term Aggie fan of one heartbreak team after another, it has been an easy transition. Looking forward to this ongoing change in the Browns and am very much thinking in terms of a 5 year plan, not a one or two. Doesn't work that way. Go Browns, Cavs and Tribe!
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I thought Believeland was well done. I remembered how bad our defense played the day of the fumble and if it wasn't for Byner throwing the team on his back - that score would have been an embarassing blowout rather than 1 guy's fault allegedly. Therefore, when I heard Byner say Big Daddy Hairston told him he blew it - I lost every ounce of respect I had for Hairston. It was our defense that got Raggedy Anned for 38 points.
All that said, Joe Gibbs isn't a stupid guy so he traded us a little horse jockey from Puget Sound (Mike Oliphant) that could run 4.3 forties for a RB he could look to as his work horse for a Superbowl Championship. While Byner got scapegoated for a defense that gave up 38 points on 1 team, look how important he was to a team willing to play some defense in the post season. Was that game really about 1 Fumble or a defense that disappeared like a Houdini Rabbit? This is the most disappointing thing about hearing any fan that watched that entire game think Byner was the only reason we lost. He was actually the only reason that game was competitive when you get right down to it.
I still blame Marty for going ultra- conservative and coaching like chicken shit charlie and playing that awful prevent defense that prevents victories. I still hate him a Belicheat!.
I still blame Marty for going ultra- conservative and coaching like chicken shit charlie and playing that awful prevent defense that prevents victories.
Certainly was his way throughout his career. Thing was that in '87 we started so poorly that it was not an option. The mood delta between the first and second halves of that game was wider than anything I've experienced in my CLE sports life...
And then in an instant it all came crashing down around me...
Wright Thompson might be the best sports writer of this era.
That's the guy... helluva a speaker as well.
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