"Believeland" film debuts on espn tonight
-
Oh god listening to jim dinovan talk about how they were wheeling the trophy and champaign into the indians lockerroom. I turned it off not long after
-
Zombo said:
Nobody cared more than Ernest Byner. That's the tradgedy of The Fumble.
We already know all of this shit .., but if you have a loved one who is not up to speed, this is required viewing for them. Only way they will ever remotely understand you.
Z
It was brutal reliving all that stuff....
For me the old dude (the fan with his grandson) and the bearded dude (the writer) who talked in many of bridge segments made the show. Loved their reflections and insights... Both added new depth to the all too familiar story-lines.
While the Browns' history dominated, it was good to see members of the killer Tribe line up of the 90's... Lofton... Thome... Nagy... and Grover. The latter having the line of the show: "I'll let you know when it happens."
Yeah- I put the goat horns on Hargrove for the WS loss. His setup guys were mowing 'em down- and what did he do? Goes by the book, puts in Jose Make a Messa, who had been pitching poorly= another heartbreaking loss.
It was brutal reliving all that stuff....
Yeah- I put the goat horns on Hargrove for the WS loss. His setup guys were mowing 'em down- and what did he do? Goes by the book, puts in Jose Make a Messa, who had been pitching poorly= another heartbreaking loss.
Hargrove lived and died by the book.. His stupidity along with Jeff Newman's cost us 30 wins a season.. I still hate both those idiots.
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
That kid doesn't love CLE. He said it just to make his das happy
-
It was brutal reliving all that stuff....
Yeah- I put the goat horns on Hargrove for the WS loss. His setup guys were mowing 'em down- and what did he do? Goes by the book, puts in Jose Make a Messa, who had been pitching poorly= another heartbreaking loss.
Hargrove lived and died by the book.. His stupidity along with Jeff Newman's cost us 30 wins a season.. I still hate both those idiots.
Hargrove lived and died by the book.. His stupidity along with Jeff Newman's cost us 30 wins a season.. I still hate both those idiots.
really?
man you hate a lot of people.
marty (prob 2nd best coach browns ever had)
belichick (do i even have to say?)
hargrove (got a lot out of those teams and more than any other coach)
newman (?)
but i bet you thought rutigliano was awesome.
-
i forgot how good the marty era was. grew up with the kardiac kids BUT the dawg pound and the power running tandem of mack and byner.......
c'mon man! anyone that hates on that is just STOOPID!
-
If bring marty back in s heartbeat i dont care.
-
Also made u appreciate kosar more.
-
VesnaKociper said:
Tom, favorite players you named were Modell players, and Art knew football a hell of a lot better than Haslam and Hue. The list of great players taken by Art, and many of them with his direct influence............ Kosar, Greg Pruit, Alzado, Strock and Danielson, Mitchell, on and on it goes.
As far as Paul Brown goes, he was ALWAYS involved in getting the BEST............ THE TOP................ THE DIFFERENCE MAKERS............ Other than Munoz, he didn't use high picks on shit OL. I am sure you know that Paul Brown would have cut Jim Brown. Ernie Davis dying saved Jim Brown's career as a Brown, and cost us the great Bobby Mitchell. Trading Mitchell, and bringing in a guy to replace Brown, without telling Modell, while Art was in flight.........was not a bright thing to do............... so yeah, his ass got fired, as it should have. Of course, it was Modell who loaned money to get PB his franchise in Cinci.
What PB DIDN"T do, was jack-off all over his first round picks and give them away in return for shit players who really have slim to no chance of ever panning out.
Hate Modell all you wan, but head-to-head versus Haslam and Lerner, Modell shits on both of them.
If I scramble Art I come up with Rat. I don't care what he did in Ratville.
Otto Graham was Paul Brown's player. He's the only Pro Football QB I know of that took his team to 10 consecutive Pro Football Championships and won 7 of them (3 of his wins were in those he attended from 50 through 55). The combines today are from a lot of the assessment criteria he innovated/established. One of the assistant coaches he selected in Cincy (Bill Walsh), went on to kick off a dynasty in SF using his Offense.
All the championships faded here once the personnel being added was no longer Paul Brown's. 64 still included a lot of his guys.
Art made bad deals. Raymond Clayborn, Lyle Alzado, Andre Rison. Yeah, the 80s were fun for me but being born back in 1964 - that's a pretty short golden era he provided for guys my age before he buried the franchise.
-
As a fan of Denver at the time Elway broke the hearts of you guys here, I got to see it from your perspective in the backdrop of everything that had happened since '64. I thought it was a great piece and well worth watching to any sports fan from anywhere USA. I knew what I was joining when I came here after JFF was drafted. Being a long term Aggie fan of one heartbreak team after another, it has been an easy transition. Looking forward to this ongoing change in the Browns and am very much thinking in terms of a 5 year plan, not a one or two. Doesn't work that way. Go Browns, Cavs and Tribe!
-
I thought Believeland was well done. I remembered how bad our defense played the day of the fumble and if it wasn't for Byner throwing the team on his back - that score would have been an embarassing blowout rather than 1 guy's fault allegedly. Therefore, when I heard Byner say Big Daddy Hairston told him he blew it - I lost every ounce of respect I had for Hairston. It was our defense that got Raggedy Anned for 38 points.
All that said, Joe Gibbs isn't a stupid guy so he traded us a little horse jockey from Puget Sound (Mike Oliphant) that could run 4.3 forties for a RB he could look to as his work horse for a Superbowl Championship. While Byner got scapegoated for a defense that gave up 38 points on 1 team, look how important he was to a team willing to play some defense in the post season. Was that game really about 1 Fumble or a defense that disappeared like a Houdini Rabbit? This is the most disappointing thing about hearing any fan that watched that entire game think Byner was the only reason we lost. He was actually the only reason that game was competitive when you get right down to it.
I still blame Marty for going ultra- conservative and coaching like chicken shit charlie and playing that awful prevent defense that prevents victories. I still hate him a Belicheat!.
I still blame Marty for going ultra- conservative and coaching like chicken shit charlie and playing that awful prevent defense that prevents victories.
Certainly was his way throughout his career. Thing was that in '87 we started so poorly that it was not an option. The mood delta between the first and second halves of that game was wider than anything I've experienced in my CLE sports life...
And then in an instant it all came crashing down around me...
Wright Thompson might be the best sports writer of this era.
That's the guy... helluva a speaker as well.
-
The thing about this show is that they actually didn't show all the bad, fucked up shit. Sure, they had Red Right 88, The Drive, The Fumble, The Shot, The Decision. They didn't even show:
The Drop. Dennis Northcutt dropping the ball when if he would have caught it, it would have meant a first down a postseason win over the Steelers. (they could have just run out the clock from there)
The Choke. Indians up 3 games to 1 to go to the World Series. They choke away 3 straight games that allow Red Sox to take the title.
The Injuries. Last years Cavs postseason Cavs lose 3 of their 3 best players to injury.
-
Hargrove lived and died by the book.. His stupidity along with Jeff Newman's cost us 30 wins a season.. I still hate both those idiots.
really?
man you hate a lot of people.
marty (prob 2nd best coach browns ever had)
belichick (do i even have to say?)
hargrove (got a lot out of those teams and more than any other coach)
newman (?)
but i bet you thought rutigliano was awesome.
really?
man you hate a lot of people.
marty (prob 2nd best coach browns ever had)
belichick (do i even have to say?)
hargrove (got a lot out of those teams and more than any other coach)
newman (?)
but i bet you thought rutigliano was awesome.
Marty is the 2nd worst coach next to belicheat.. belicheat only is what brady has made him..and yes I loved Sam.. He was great for cleveland at the time
-
i forgot how good the marty era was. grew up with the kardiac kids BUT the dawg pound and the power running tandem of mack and byner.......
c'mon man! anyone that hates on that is just STOOPID!
i forgot how good the marty era was. grew up with the kardiac kids BUT the dawg pound and the power running tandem of mack and byner.......
c'mon man! anyone that hates on that is just STOOPID!
LOL, Ghoolie hates Marty. 'Nuff said.
LOL, Marty is the only coach with 200 wins (6th all time) and no Super Bowl wins to his name. Only reason he's not already in the HOF.FWIW, the only active coaches with a shot of passing Marty are Andy Reid and Jeff Fisher- who both need 30+ wins to catch him. My bet is they won't.
-
VesnaKociper said:
Belichik was too good for the city of Cleveland. Better coach than Paul Brown. Lock for the HOF. Cleveland football blows. Cleveland fans are the least educated of any group of fans.
Belichick has had Brady.
That's all.
4 out of 5 losing seasons as HC of the Browns.
-
VesnaKociper said:
You fucktards like Marty because, you are fucking losers.actually i liked him because the browns won under him, sorta like under paul brown. belichick coulda started the same thing he has done in NE if not for modell's move and his firing (and i liked modell as owner of the browns).
i'm sure when the browns were going for the win in the afc champ gamer vs denver and had it in byner's hands marty drew the play up for him to fumble. yeah that was called going for the win fucktard. i guess that's not playing to lose. unlike sam having sipe throw a duck into the endzone from a distance which was a chip shot field goal away for cockcroft.
you're out of your gourd.
-
I just watched it again. I actually think it left a ton to be desired. I agree with most of this:
How do you call it "Believeland" and focus almost exclusively on the past?
-
VesnaKociper said:
I would like to re-live the Browns-Steelers game I went to one cold nasty Sunday with Carol Santucci. She gave me a hand job under her Steeler's blanket. I can't ever remember who one. Well, I did.
Between the normal size of your dick and the cold weather, her index finger and thumb must have gotten tired.
Between the normal size of your dick and the cold weather, her index finger and thumb must have gotten tired.
So you measured it? Which hand?
-
VesnaKociper said:
Belichik was too good for the city of Cleveland. Better coach than Paul Brown. Lock for the HOF. Cleveland football blows. Cleveland fans are the least educated of any group of fans.
Belichick has had Brady.
That's all.
4 out of 5 losing seasons as HC of the Browns.
Belichick has had Brady.
That's all.
4 out of 5 losing seasons as HC of the Browns.
Possibly learning his craft? Possibly CLE was in a deeper hole? Possibly the promise of an 11-5 year was gutted by "the move"?
As for Belichick-Brady... Certainly does not hurt to have a Brady, but in the one season Brady missed with his knee, Bill still managed to go 11-5 with a guy named Matt Cassell.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Belichick has had Brady.
That's all.
4 out of 5 losing seasons as HC of the Browns.
Possibly learning his craft? Possibly CLE was in a deeper hole? Possibly the promise of an 11-5 year was gutted by "the move"?
As for Belichick-Brady... Certainly does not hurt to have a Brady, but in the one season Brady missed with his knee, Bill still managed to go 11-5 with a guy named Matt Cassell.
Possibly learning his craft? Possibly CLE was in a deeper hole? Possibly the promise of an 11-5 year was gutted by "the move"?
As for Belichick-Brady... Certainly does not hurt to have a Brady, but in the one season Brady missed with his knee, Bill still managed to go 11-5 with a guy named Matt Cassell.
Do you think the Pats win any Super Bowls at all with Matt Cassell and BB? No.
-
Perhaps not, but point remains that Belichick won without Brady so your argument is weakened.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login