Is it time to start considering Justin Gilbert as a viable corner?
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I gave on on Gilbert when he put his Dodge Charger in a ditch about a mile from my house.
The guy is a head case.
I gave on on Gilbert when he put his Dodge Charger in a ditch about a mile from my house.
The guy is a head case.
Was it at least an SRT8 version?
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the thing i don't understand is how a kid can look good in college, good enough to have all the draft nudniks drooling over him as the #1 or 2 db in the draft, comes to the nfl and suddenly doesn't look the same. what do half these guys just wait to get paid and then lay down?
wtf?
the thing i don't understand is how a kid can look good in college, good enough to have all the draft nudniks drooling over him as the #1 or 2 db in the draft, comes to the nfl and suddenly doesn't look the same. what do half these guys just wait to get paid and then lay down?
wtf?
I would say it's kind of like the popular kid in middle school who then disappears in high school, or the stud in high school who disappears in life....... Some just can't make the transition to the next level - Hopefully Justin can figure it out.
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He wasn't too bad. Obviously out there for a limited time. But tramon Williams wasn't way better
He wasn't too bad. Obviously out there for a limited time. But tramon Williams wasn't way better
Here's the thing. Corner is one of the last tiers of defense and Gilbert doesn't have a history of LIKING to tackle people in a world where actions speak louder than words. Many pre-draft scouting reports said he wasn't very good at tackling. Now, if we factor in how bad our front 7 was at stopping the run - this guy seemed like even less of a fit to our situation. This reality wasn't lining up to boost his confidence.
Hey, how about a position change to expedite an attitude change or jumper cable the confidence?
I remember Mike Mayock saying at the very least, Cleveland added the best return man in his draft class. Well, if he's good with the football in open fields and he has good hands - why wouldn't we try this guy at WR at some point especially if the corner thing remains a bad idea?
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He wasn't too bad. Obviously out there for a limited time. But tramon Williams wasn't way better
Here's the thing. Corner is one of the last tiers of defense and Gilbert doesn't have a history of LIKING to tackle people in a world where actions speak louder than words. Many pre-draft scouting reports said he wasn't very good at tackling. Now, if we factor in how bad our front 7 was at stopping the run - this guy seemed like even less of a fit to our situation. This reality wasn't lining up to boost his confidence.
Hey, how about a position change to expedite an attitude change or jumper cable the confidence?
I remember Mike Mayock saying at the very least, Cleveland added the best return man in his draft class. Well, if he's good with the football in open fields and he has good hands - why wouldn't we try this guy at WR at some point especially if the corner thing remains a bad idea?
Here's the thing. Corner is one of the last tiers of defense and Gilbert doesn't have a history of LIKING to tackle people in a world where actions speak louder than words. Many pre-draft scouting reports said he wasn't very good at tackling. Now, if we factor in how bad our front 7 was at stopping the run - this guy seemed like even less of a fit to our situation. This reality wasn't lining up to boost his confidence.
Hey, how about a position change to expedite an attitude change or jumper cable the confidence?
I remember Mike Mayock saying at the very least, Cleveland added the best return man in his draft class. Well, if he's good with the football in open fields and he has good hands - why wouldn't we try this guy at WR at some point especially if the corner thing remains a bad idea?
Tackling isn't so much about angles and form as it is mentality. The first two can be coached up, the latter is either something you have or ... you're a bitch.
However in today's NFL Gilbert doesn't have to be an effective open field tackler, he just needs to be able to beat a block and force a stretch back inside to pursuit or to the sideline.
His chances of him seeing looks at WR are zilch. To be a WR you have to have exceptional footwork to sell your routes on top of great hands. That isn't Justin's game. He'd have a better shot at safety and its highly unlikely he'd be effective there at all.
As for the OP - it will be time to consider Gilbert a viable CB when he plays with consistency and his time on the field is reflected with that consistency.
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Here's the thing. Corner is one of the last tiers of defense and Gilbert doesn't have a history of LIKING to tackle people in a world where actions speak louder than words. Many pre-draft scouting reports said he wasn't very good at tackling. Now, if we factor in how bad our front 7 was at stopping the run - this guy seemed like even less of a fit to our situation. This reality wasn't lining up to boost his confidence.
Hey, how about a position change to expedite an attitude change or jumper cable the confidence?
I remember Mike Mayock saying at the very least, Cleveland added the best return man in his draft class. Well, if he's good with the football in open fields and he has good hands - why wouldn't we try this guy at WR at some point especially if the corner thing remains a bad idea?
Tackling isn't so much about angles and form as it is mentality. The first two can be coached up, the latter is either something you have or ... you're a bitch.
However in today's NFL Gilbert doesn't have to be an effective open field tackler, he just needs to be able to beat a block and force a stretch back inside to pursuit or to the sideline.
His chances of him seeing looks at WR are zilch. To be a WR you have to have exceptional footwork to sell your routes on top of great hands. That isn't Justin's game. He'd have a better shot at safety and its highly unlikely he'd be effective there at all.
As for the OP - it will be time to consider Gilbert a viable CB when he plays with consistency and his time on the field is reflected with that consistency.
Tackling isn't so much about angles and form as it is mentality. The first two can be coached up, the latter is either something you have or ... you're a bitch.
However in today's NFL Gilbert doesn't have to be an effective open field tackler, he just needs to be able to beat a block and force a stretch back inside to pursuit or to the sideline.
His chances of him seeing looks at WR are zilch. To be a WR you have to have exceptional footwork to sell your routes on top of great hands. That isn't Justin's game. He'd have a better shot at safety and its highly unlikely he'd be effective there at all.
You're probably right about the WR thing.
I totally agree tackling is a mentality/attitude. You brought up some very good points I could apply here.
When your front 7 ranks with anchors at stopping the run, you have to be able to form tackle at least occasionally. Gilbert usually turned that down with grabsies (not to be confused with simply pushing someone out of bounds when that's an option). As much as Buster Skrine ran hot and cold with covering people, he was a great tackler especially when healthy and in open fields. Skrine and Haden were solid tacklers against the run and when it was time to come off their man in the passing game to help tackle a RB, TE or WR breaking loose elsewhere - they could be counted on. I'm not sold Gilbert offers us this Fair or not, Gilbert is a bigger guy drafted with a much higher expectation than we had for Skrine - so it didn't take long to notice we didn't exactly get the kind of upgrade a top 10 draft pick should have provided.
With the secondary being the last tier of defense, Cornerback is a little different than an DE leveraging a running play inside toward pursuit and the last 2 tiers of defense behind him. There's TEs in this league like Graham, Gronk, Gates, Kelce, Eifert, Barnidge, Witten, and Delanie Walker somewhere in that middle third of the final tier he could be red carpeting that WR toward. The same Heath Miller that once pancaked Shawn Merriman in a pre-draft highlight, was often downfield blasting Safeties when a guy like Antonio Brown caught passes on 1 side of the field and crossed way over to the opposite side of the field. I think you'll agree here that Corners gotta do all they can to steal some of those tackles on WRs they are leveraging back inside. That little bit extra I speak of here comes from that mentality/attitude thing you mentioned. Long story short, I'd like our Corners to give us more reliable tackling than Gilbert's mentality/attitude provides us with up until now. With Gilbert, it's always been the attitude more in question than the ability. Now think about Horton's little guys that can hit comment. Mentality? You bet!
I'd love to see an about-face with Gilbert and I don't mean that in coverage as much as I mean it with tackling. I saw a little bit of improvement in the coverage. I also saw a good attitude when he was asked to play on special teams which might be a good enough reason not to totally give up on him just yet. Late in the year on a kickoff coverage, Gilbert was in an outside contain role where his #1 responsibility was to turn the return man up inside. There was one play in particular where did just that; but he also gave us the little bit extra with making the tackle in the process to show me has has this in him. The difference here is he was running forward rather than coming off a back pedal with change of direction in coverage as a DB.
2 guys that really lost a lot of development opportunity in last year's 3 win season were T. Pryor and Justin Gilbert. It was absurd to cut Pryor only to bring him back with about 3 or 4 weeks to go without enough comfort to put him in the game. That said, they had enough comfort to keep putting an undrafted Safety Johnson Bademosi back out there at corner. In fairness, I wasn't at the practices to see how hard Gilbert was competing. They knew Desir was going to take some time and it felt like they gave up on that learning curve a little early as well.
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To this point with Gilbert's speed & size alone he should not be behind T. Williams nor Desir. Gaines should not be anywhere on the field before Gilbert. It's all about his want to, coachable & technique . If a new stance has anything to do with his coverage technique's, it's a start. If you have not seen S-Rahim Moore struggle with his tackling technique's. I like the odds in I. Campbell pushing him as the starter.. Poyer in his contract season, can write himself a nice payday..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Until I see different, I would expect Campbell and Moore as our starters.
Not necessarily inspiring confidence but Horton did help launch Tashaun's career.
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To this point with Gilbert's speed & size alone he should not be behind T. Williams nor Desir. Gaines should not be anywhere on the field before Gilbert. It's all about his want to, coachable & technique . If a new stance has anything to do with his coverage technique's, it's a start. If you have not seen S-Rahim Moore struggle with his tackling technique's. I like the odds in I. Campbell pushing him as the starter.. Poyer in his contract season, can write himself a nice payday..
To this point with Gilbert's speed & size alone he should not be behind T. Williams nor Desir. Gaines should not be anywhere on the field before Gilbert. It's all about his want to, coachable & technique . If a new stance has anything to do with his coverage technique's, it's a start. If you have not seen S-Rahim Moore struggle with his tackling technique's. I like the odds in I. Campbell pushing him as the starter.. Poyer in his contract season, can write himself a nice payday..
Or even the undrafted K'Wuan Williams who edged him out as our 3rd corner in 2014. Good points made Gumby!
Hopefully his NFL walk to date here has shown him what separates the does from the bucks and the do's from the don'ts. I really believe it's the desire or want you spoke of. Look at Josh Gordon - is there a bigger waste of talent on this planet? All his apologists pretend 2014 didn't happen but he was a big enough distraction to our 6-4 start that we finished 1-5 the rest of the way. I didn't see ANY desire or want - outside of the 10 or 11 plays he didn't take off in the Atlanta game. More intelligent franchises don't rest their hopes on an empty inner chest at the #1 WR spot in a passing era.
One of my favorite things about football is seeing a guy come out of nowhere against all odds like a Wayne Chrebet from Hofstra (who's football program no longer exists). In pertinence to us, a guy like K'Wuan Williams who might not have the ideal build to start outside can show Gilbert first-hand what hard work can do for you in terms of playing time. The biggest thing preventing tenure for K'Wuan is his lack of durability.
I still worry about Gilbert's tackling but as Tia and I discussed - a lot of that comes from a mindset (desire and want). Accepting coaching falls is also applicable. Gilbert has another chance so let's see what he can do. As I said previously in this thread, I liked what I saw from him covering kickoffs. It at least showed me he's not ready to give up this whole opportunity just yet. We'll see what he does next.
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Recently the media has gone out of their way to print as many stories about Justin Gilbert as humanly possible AND the coaches have made every effort to make sure he knows that he has a "clean slate". Many of the stories mention the previous regime's method of "tough love" and how it didn't work, and how some of the departed veteran players practiced a similar style of trying to whip him into shape.
But here's the thing, where there's smoke there's fire. I've read multiple reports of Gilbert adjusting his stance to help with his back-peddling skill, and Gilbert appears to be taking to his new coaches like he never did with the others. Perhaps the only good thing to come out of Joe Haden's unforeseen ankle surgery is the fact Gilbert gets to take virtually ALL of the first team reps and gets to work against the best WR's we have (which isn't saying much at the moment). It's safe to say that our new GM and coaching staff isn't keeping players that they don't think help our team in the long run, so if they REALLY didn't feel Gilbert had potential, you have to think they would have cut him long ago. They have made multiple mentions of Gilbert's attitude and work ethic, and said that he has done "everything that we have asked him to do." No reports of being late, nothing about a bad attitude, and virtually nothing negative at all.
Gilbert isn't our new regime's boy, and they have no reason to pump him up. I'm starting to think the reports are true, and the kid actually has a chance. Nobody ever doubted his physical skill set, and the popular opinion is that Gilbert now feels loved and part of the team. Just think about what Gilbert could actually mean to our team for a moment. The #8 pick of the draft that basically provided nothing last year, but could potentially START this season. It would be like getting another first round pick this year because let's face it...most if not ALL of us wrote him off after last year...and why wouldn't we?
We still have much to prove at the safety position, but if Gilbert can progress, we start to get some depth at a VERY important position (CB). All of the sudden we have K'Waun Williams, Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, Justin Gilbert, Pierre Desir, Gaines, and a free agent that escapes my memory. We obviously need Haden to make a strong comeback, but it's not like that is impossible.
Listen, we've all heard this rhetoric before, and we Browns fans are rightfully in a place of "show me before I believe". But this feels different. I'm reading too many articles, too many quotes, and hearing too many good things about Gilbert for it just to be "preseason bluster". He must really be showing something, and lord knows we need a boost. This kind of thing is how bad teams start to make the turn. They have several things go their way at once, and different aspect of the team begin to come together. For us, it could be the triumphant return of Joe Haden coupled with the emergence of Justin Gilbert and K'Waun Williams able to avoid concussions. That has the potential to be one helluva corner trio.
I know we're all sick of hearing things like "potential" and "there's a new attitude in Cleveland". I am too, but I just don't feel like being negative right now. We need an astounding amount of different team dynamics to change and go our way before we're competitive this year, and we all realize that. What I don't think people realize is, those dynamics CAN GO OUR WAY. Gilbert CAN turn into the corner we need, Pryor CAN develop into a red zone target that we sorely lack, Orchard, Ogbah, Kruger, Nassib, and Dez Bryant CAN GET TO THE QB, and RG III or McCown CAN get us enough points.
A new coach can go a long way in terms of reaching players, and Gilbert appears to be a guy who needed someone like Hue Jackson. Our team getting a new talented cornerback basically out of thin air would go a LONG way in helping a defense with a ton of needs. We won't know a damn thing until the pads come on, and we have a LONG time to wait for that. But I have a feeling that Gilbert has a new lease on life, and while I admit to being skeptical, I have to admit that my feelings are changing. Do not be surprised to see Gilbert play well in training camp. I'm NOT saying the guy will be picking off every pass and turn into Deion Sanders, but I'm fairly certain Gilbert will be a guy we can count on this year.
Recently the media has gone out of their way to print as many stories about Justin Gilbert as humanly possible AND the coaches have made every effort to make sure he knows that he has a "clean slate". Many of the stories mention the previous regime's method of "tough love" and how it didn't work, and how some of the departed veteran players practiced a similar style of trying to whip him into shape.
But here's the thing, where there's smoke there's fire. I've read multiple reports of Gilbert adjusting his stance to help with his back-peddling skill, and Gilbert appears to be taking to his new coaches like he never did with the others. Perhaps the only good thing to come out of Joe Haden's unforeseen ankle surgery is the fact Gilbert gets to take virtually ALL of the first team reps and gets to work against the best WR's we have (which isn't saying much at the moment). It's safe to say that our new GM and coaching staff isn't keeping players that they don't think help our team in the long run, so if they REALLY didn't feel Gilbert had potential, you have to think they would have cut him long ago. They have made multiple mentions of Gilbert's attitude and work ethic, and said that he has done "everything that we have asked him to do." No reports of being late, nothing about a bad attitude, and virtually nothing negative at all.
Gilbert isn't our new regime's boy, and they have no reason to pump him up. I'm starting to think the reports are true, and the kid actually has a chance. Nobody ever doubted his physical skill set, and the popular opinion is that Gilbert now feels loved and part of the team. Just think about what Gilbert could actually mean to our team for a moment. The #8 pick of the draft that basically provided nothing last year, but could potentially START this season. It would be like getting another first round pick this year because let's face it...most if not ALL of us wrote him off after last year...and why wouldn't we?
We still have much to prove at the safety position, but if Gilbert can progress, we start to get some depth at a VERY important position (CB). All of the sudden we have K'Waun Williams, Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, Justin Gilbert, Pierre Desir, Gaines, and a free agent that escapes my memory. We obviously need Haden to make a strong comeback, but it's not like that is impossible.
Listen, we've all heard this rhetoric before, and we Browns fans are rightfully in a place of "show me before I believe". But this feels different. I'm reading too many articles, too many quotes, and hearing too many good things about Gilbert for it just to be "preseason bluster". He must really be showing something, and lord knows we need a boost. This kind of thing is how bad teams start to make the turn. They have several things go their way at once, and different aspect of the team begin to come together. For us, it could be the triumphant return of Joe Haden coupled with the emergence of Justin Gilbert and K'Waun Williams able to avoid concussions. That has the potential to be one helluva corner trio.
I know we're all sick of hearing things like "potential" and "there's a new attitude in Cleveland". I am too, but I just don't feel like being negative right now. We need an astounding amount of different team dynamics to change and go our way before we're competitive this year, and we all realize that. What I don't think people realize is, those dynamics CAN GO OUR WAY. Gilbert CAN turn into the corner we need, Pryor CAN develop into a red zone target that we sorely lack, Orchard, Ogbah, Kruger, Nassib, and Dez Bryant CAN GET TO THE QB, and RG III or McCown CAN get us enough points.
A new coach can go a long way in terms of reaching players, and Gilbert appears to be a guy who needed someone like Hue Jackson. Our team getting a new talented cornerback basically out of thin air would go a LONG way in helping a defense with a ton of needs. We won't know a damn thing until the pads come on, and we have a LONG time to wait for that. But I have a feeling that Gilbert has a new lease on life, and while I admit to being skeptical, I have to admit that my feelings are changing. Do not be surprised to see Gilbert play well in training camp. I'm NOT saying the guy will be picking off every pass and turn into Deion Sanders, but I'm fairly certain Gilbert will be a guy we can count on this year.
from St Louis and don't follow the Browns as a fan..but do follow the draft very closely...your x-hc WAS the problem...period
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Recently the media has gone out of their way to print as many stories about Justin Gilbert as humanly possible AND the coaches have made every effort to make sure he knows that he has a "clean slate". Many of the stories mention the previous regime's method of "tough love" and how it didn't work, and how some of the departed veteran players practiced a similar style of trying to whip him into shape.
But here's the thing, where there's smoke there's fire. I've read multiple reports of Gilbert adjusting his stance to help with his back-peddling skill, and Gilbert appears to be taking to his new coaches like he never did with the others. Perhaps the only good thing to come out of Joe Haden's unforeseen ankle surgery is the fact Gilbert gets to take virtually ALL of the first team reps and gets to work against the best WR's we have (which isn't saying much at the moment). It's safe to say that our new GM and coaching staff isn't keeping players that they don't think help our team in the long run, so if they REALLY didn't feel Gilbert had potential, you have to think they would have cut him long ago. They have made multiple mentions of Gilbert's attitude and work ethic, and said that he has done "everything that we have asked him to do." No reports of being late, nothing about a bad attitude, and virtually nothing negative at all.
Gilbert isn't our new regime's boy, and they have no reason to pump him up. I'm starting to think the reports are true, and the kid actually has a chance. Nobody ever doubted his physical skill set, and the popular opinion is that Gilbert now feels loved and part of the team. Just think about what Gilbert could actually mean to our team for a moment. The #8 pick of the draft that basically provided nothing last year, but could potentially START this season. It would be like getting another first round pick this year because let's face it...most if not ALL of us wrote him off after last year...and why wouldn't we?
We still have much to prove at the safety position, but if Gilbert can progress, we start to get some depth at a VERY important position (CB). All of the sudden we have K'Waun Williams, Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, Justin Gilbert, Pierre Desir, Gaines, and a free agent that escapes my memory. We obviously need Haden to make a strong comeback, but it's not like that is impossible.
Listen, we've all heard this rhetoric before, and we Browns fans are rightfully in a place of "show me before I believe". But this feels different. I'm reading too many articles, too many quotes, and hearing too many good things about Gilbert for it just to be "preseason bluster". He must really be showing something, and lord knows we need a boost. This kind of thing is how bad teams start to make the turn. They have several things go their way at once, and different aspect of the team begin to come together. For us, it could be the triumphant return of Joe Haden coupled with the emergence of Justin Gilbert and K'Waun Williams able to avoid concussions. That has the potential to be one helluva corner trio.
I know we're all sick of hearing things like "potential" and "there's a new attitude in Cleveland". I am too, but I just don't feel like being negative right now. We need an astounding amount of different team dynamics to change and go our way before we're competitive this year, and we all realize that. What I don't think people realize is, those dynamics CAN GO OUR WAY. Gilbert CAN turn into the corner we need, Pryor CAN develop into a red zone target that we sorely lack, Orchard, Ogbah, Kruger, Nassib, and Dez Bryant CAN GET TO THE QB, and RG III or McCown CAN get us enough points.
A new coach can go a long way in terms of reaching players, and Gilbert appears to be a guy who needed someone like Hue Jackson. Our team getting a new talented cornerback basically out of thin air would go a LONG way in helping a defense with a ton of needs. We won't know a damn thing until the pads come on, and we have a LONG time to wait for that. But I have a feeling that Gilbert has a new lease on life, and while I admit to being skeptical, I have to admit that my feelings are changing. Do not be surprised to see Gilbert play well in training camp. I'm NOT saying the guy will be picking off every pass and turn into Deion Sanders, but I'm fairly certain Gilbert will be a guy we can count on this year.
from St Louis and don't follow the Browns as a fan..but do follow the draft very closely...your x-hc WAS the problem...period
from St Louis and don't follow the Browns as a fan(YET)..but do follow the draft very closely...your x-hc WAS the problem...period
Small fix & I'll raise you a Ray Farmer that can now plow your fields
... Your,,,,,,, Welcome! -
Recently the media has gone out of their way to print as many stories about Justin Gilbert as humanly possible AND the coaches have made every effort to make sure he knows that he has a "clean slate". Many of the stories mention the previous regime's method of "tough love" and how it didn't work, and how some of the departed veteran players practiced a similar style of trying to whip him into shape.
But here's the thing, where there's smoke there's fire. I've read multiple reports of Gilbert adjusting his stance to help with his back-peddling skill, and Gilbert appears to be taking to his new coaches like he never did with the others. Perhaps the only good thing to come out of Joe Haden's unforeseen ankle surgery is the fact Gilbert gets to take virtually ALL of the first team reps and gets to work against the best WR's we have (which isn't saying much at the moment). It's safe to say that our new GM and coaching staff isn't keeping players that they don't think help our team in the long run, so if they REALLY didn't feel Gilbert had potential, you have to think they would have cut him long ago. They have made multiple mentions of Gilbert's attitude and work ethic, and said that he has done "everything that we have asked him to do." No reports of being late, nothing about a bad attitude, and virtually nothing negative at all.
Gilbert isn't our new regime's boy, and they have no reason to pump him up. I'm starting to think the reports are true, and the kid actually has a chance. Nobody ever doubted his physical skill set, and the popular opinion is that Gilbert now feels loved and part of the team. Just think about what Gilbert could actually mean to our team for a moment. The #8 pick of the draft that basically provided nothing last year, but could potentially START this season. It would be like getting another first round pick this year because let's face it...most if not ALL of us wrote him off after last year...and why wouldn't we?
We still have much to prove at the safety position, but if Gilbert can progress, we start to get some depth at a VERY important position (CB). All of the sudden we have K'Waun Williams, Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, Justin Gilbert, Pierre Desir, Gaines, and a free agent that escapes my memory. We obviously need Haden to make a strong comeback, but it's not like that is impossible.
Listen, we've all heard this rhetoric before, and we Browns fans are rightfully in a place of "show me before I believe". But this feels different. I'm reading too many articles, too many quotes, and hearing too many good things about Gilbert for it just to be "preseason bluster". He must really be showing something, and lord knows we need a boost. This kind of thing is how bad teams start to make the turn. They have several things go their way at once, and different aspect of the team begin to come together. For us, it could be the triumphant return of Joe Haden coupled with the emergence of Justin Gilbert and K'Waun Williams able to avoid concussions. That has the potential to be one helluva corner trio.
I know we're all sick of hearing things like "potential" and "there's a new attitude in Cleveland". I am too, but I just don't feel like being negative right now. We need an astounding amount of different team dynamics to change and go our way before we're competitive this year, and we all realize that. What I don't think people realize is, those dynamics CAN GO OUR WAY. Gilbert CAN turn into the corner we need, Pryor CAN develop into a red zone target that we sorely lack, Orchard, Ogbah, Kruger, Nassib, and Dez Bryant CAN GET TO THE QB, and RG III or McCown CAN get us enough points.
A new coach can go a long way in terms of reaching players, and Gilbert appears to be a guy who needed someone like Hue Jackson. Our team getting a new talented cornerback basically out of thin air would go a LONG way in helping a defense with a ton of needs. We won't know a damn thing until the pads come on, and we have a LONG time to wait for that. But I have a feeling that Gilbert has a new lease on life, and while I admit to being skeptical, I have to admit that my feelings are changing. Do not be surprised to see Gilbert play well in training camp. I'm NOT saying the guy will be picking off every pass and turn into Deion Sanders, but I'm fairly certain Gilbert will be a guy we can count on this year.
from St Louis and don't follow the Browns as a fan..but do follow the draft very closely...your x-hc WAS the problem...period
The problem was the Pettine/O'Neil defense.from St Louis and don't follow the Browns as a fan..but do follow the draft very closely...your x-hc WAS the problem...period
The root cause of the problem was Ray Farmer impersonating an NFL caliber GM.
After 2 years, 22 draft picks, and nearly $15 million in cap space, he handed Pettine a shit sandwich.
Which the Brown's fans were forced to eat.
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Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
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Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
Pettine was the problem.. shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
Back into your Rams Cave... We played everybody we had. Did you see any of our Talent to match Rams? Have a Farmer's Shit Sandwich & enjoy the Jackson 5 Crazies. But am telling you,We got no crazies that the FO of Harvard would approve of.. slow/poorly coached, Yes, Jeff Fisher is slow but DC Greg Williams is surly holding his pants a job with that defensive personal..
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Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
Don't forget Pettine's first year as HC the Browns had a 7-9 season (nothing great but it's the high water mark in recent memory).Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
Also, keep an eye on the Farmer draft picks and see how many of them have a great career in the NFL.
Most of them will be selling insurance soon.
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Don't forget Pettine's first year as HC the Browns had a 7-9 season (nothing great but it's the high water mark in recent memory).Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
Also, keep an eye on the Farmer draft picks and see how many of them have a great career in the NFL.
Most of them will be selling insurance soon.
Don't forget Pettine's first year as HC the Browns had a 7-9 season (nothing great but it's the high water mark in recent memory).
Also, keep an eye on the Farmer draft picks and see how many of them have a great career in the NFL.
Most of them will be selling insurance soon.
other then Manziel(had as a 2nd rd pick) thought Farmer ,made solid picks
like I said you x-coach sucked
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Don't forget Pettine's first year as HC the Browns had a 7-9 season (nothing great but it's the high water mark in recent memory).Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
Also, keep an eye on the Farmer draft picks and see how many of them have a great career in the NFL.
Most of them will be selling insurance soon.
I'll have to disagree here. Farmer picked some defensive players that I believe will be cornerstones of this team (especially if Gilbert can turn it around).Don't forget Pettine's first year as HC the Browns had a 7-9 season (nothing great but it's the high water mark in recent memory).
Also, keep an eye on the Farmer draft picks and see how many of them have a great career in the NFL.
Most of them will be selling insurance soon.
Shelton, Orchard, Cooper, (expect a strong sophomore campaign from these three) Williams, Desir and Campbell all belong in the league and most of them will represent very good value imo. The defense last year was poorly coached. They looked like a team that wasn't ready to play and missed tackles like there was a bonus in it for them.
The Offense clearly wasn't as much of a priority to Ray, but he still produced Bito, Crow and Duke, again at good value. Farmer's biggest shortcomings were obviously text gate, and his incompetence at the WR position. the local media believing you can accurately grade a draft class after one year didn't help him either. (Yes I have placed the manziel fiasco on Haslam)
Pettine's first year "success" was mostly taking advantage of a weak schedule with shanny's run scheme and a veteran QB who hadn't yet started shitting the bed. I'd still put my money on the roster being underutilized by poor coaching as opposed to a good coaching staff sabotaged by a bad FO.
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Until I see different, I would expect Campbell and Moore as our starters.
Not necessarily inspiring confidence but Horton did help launch Tashaun's career.
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Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
What is tm?
-
Pettine was the problem..watched the Rams play the Browns and was shocked at how slow/poorly coached the Browns were when the Rams played them
his my way or the highway bs went out 3 decades ago...Carroll has them doing tm before games why Pettine refuses to play the players who are athletic enough to actually have a chance of winning....Madden would play the crazies who were cut from other teams as long as they weren't in jail on Sunday
good news is Jackson will play the crazies...and the Browns will win
What is tm?
What is tm?
Transcendental meditation?
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I'll have to disagree here. Farmer picked some defensive players that I believe will be cornerstones of this team (especially if Gilbert can turn it around).Don't forget Pettine's first year as HC the Browns had a 7-9 season (nothing great but it's the high water mark in recent memory).
Also, keep an eye on the Farmer draft picks and see how many of them have a great career in the NFL.
Most of them will be selling insurance soon.
Shelton, Orchard, Cooper, (expect a strong sophomore campaign from these three) Williams, Desir and Campbell all belong in the league and most of them will represent very good value imo. The defense last year was poorly coached. They looked like a team that wasn't ready to play and missed tackles like there was a bonus in it for them.
The Offense clearly wasn't as much of a priority to Ray, but he still produced Bito, Crow and Duke, again at good value. Farmer's biggest shortcomings were obviously text gate, and his incompetence at the WR position. the local media believing you can accurately grade a draft class after one year didn't help him either. (Yes I have placed the manziel fiasco on Haslam)
Pettine's first year "success" was mostly taking advantage of a weak schedule with shanny's run scheme and a veteran QB who hadn't yet started shitting the bed. I'd still put my money on the roster being underutilized by poor coaching as opposed to a good coaching staff sabotaged by a bad FO.
I'll have to disagree here. Farmer picked some defensive players that I believe will be cornerstones of this team (especially if Gilbert can turn it around).
Shelton, Orchard, Cooper, (expect a strong sophomore campaign from these three) Williams, Desir and Campbell all belong in the league and most of them will represent very good value imo. The defense last year was poorly coached. They looked like a team that wasn't ready to play and missed tackles like there was a bonus in it for them.
The Offense clearly wasn't as much of a priority to Ray, but he still produced Bito, Crow and Duke, again at good value. Farmer's biggest shortcomings were obviously text gate, and his incompetence at the WR position. the local media believing you can accurately grade a draft class after one year didn't help him either. (Yes I have placed the manziel fiasco on Haslam)
Pettine's first year "success" was mostly taking advantage of a weak schedule with shanny's run scheme and a veteran QB who hadn't yet started shitting the bed. I'd still put my money on the roster being underutilized by poor coaching as opposed to a good coaching staff sabotaged by a bad FO.
I almost hesitate to say "poor coaching"..."non existent coaching" comes closer.
Even with Farmer's mistakes, we have some viable talent that will now be coached up.Just my opinion, but we'll see what happens.
Mike
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