Deserving of HOF
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Makes no sense to include ineligible players... especially if list excludes AP. When it's his time he's a 1st ballot guy.
Ditto for our Joe T.
Other 1st ballot guys are:
P. Manning
Brady
Lewis
Brees
Moss
Woodson
LT
Champ
Rivers
Erlacher
Gonzales
Big Ben
That Wisniewski is on the list and we did not land him in FA pisses me off....
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Makes no sense to include ineligible players... especially if list excludes AP. When it's his time he's a 1st ballot guy.
Ditto for our Joe T.
Other 1st ballot guys are:
P. Manning
Brady
Lewis
Brees
Moss
Woodson
LT
Champ
Rivers
Erlacher
Gonzales
Big Ben
That Wisniewski is on the list and we did not land him in FA pisses me off....
Makes no sense to include ineligible players... especially if list excludes AP. When it's his time he's a 1st ballot guy.
Well, I was just listing everyone who was not in yet who was Top 30 in CA...I didn't distinguish per se about eligibility.
Ditto for our Joe T.
Other 1st ballot guys are:
P. Manning
Brady
Lewis
Brees
Moss
Woodson
LT
Champ
Rivers
Erlacher
Gonzales
Big Ben
I don't know if all of these will be first ballot....though I think they do ultimately make it.
That Wisniewski is on the list and we did not land him in FA pisses me off....
FYI.....the Wisniewski I listed here is the uncle of the Stefan Wisniewski we missed on in FA.
Steve Wisniewski played his entire 13 year career with the Raiders. 8 time Pro Bowler. 2 time All Pro first team, 6 times 2d team. 1990s All Decade team. Missed only 2 games his entire career.
I think he should likely make it....but he has a lot of competition....amongst Linemen. Faneca and Mawae especially.
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1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
I'd like to see the guys in bold get in, many are no-brainers. Ben will get in too.
Zombo
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Of course, the real questions are: Why are not Marshall and Anderson in yet? Zombo might argue that they were not good enough.....yet their credentials are easily as good or better than many, many other players that are in.
Do they hold Marshall's wrong way run against him? I doubt that considering what else he did. Do they hold it against him that he was also on a D-Line with Carl Eller and Alan Page? I think that is highly possible.
And Anderson? Do they hold it against him that he didn't win a Super Bowl? I would think not....as many other QBs that are in also did not win. His contemporary, Dan Fouts, never even made it to a Super Bowl. Or do they think he just was too far down the pecking order of his contemporaries? He played 14 years from 1971 to 1984. Yes, Bradshaw, Stabler, Staubach, some with Montana,Griese all of whom won titles and Fouts were his contemporaries.
His CA and Fouts CA were almost identical.....Fouts 162, Anderson 161 (But Fouts played 1 more year....if Fouts played the same number of years, he would have been behind Anderson)
Fouts played in a much more pass happy offense. He had 1200 more career attempts.....and more yards, completions, and TDs...but that all came with many more passes. Yet, Anderson is rated his equal in production....and he actually had a better career production number than the likes of Griese, Stabler, Namath, Aikman, Stauback, Starr, and others. But those guys all won titles where Anderson lost his only bid.
That may indeed be the primary factor in him not getting in.
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1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
I'd like to see the guys in bold get in, many are no-brainers. Ben will get in too.
Zombo
Zombo said:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
I'd like to see the guys in bold get in, many are no-brainers. Ben will get in too.
Zombo
Question: Can Mawae and Faneca merely be the OL versions of Vinny Testaverde? Long careers...but just OK? Or were these guys really the cream of the crop?
And why not Taylor and Thomas? Are you showing an anti-Dolphin bias? I know that the Dolphins hadn't been that great a team in their careers, but since Dan Marino, their QB situation has been just a tad above the Browns. Should that be held against these....seemingly outstanding defenders?
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Of course, the real questions are: Why are not Marshall and Anderson in yet? Zombo might argue that they were not good enough.....yet their credentials are easily as good or better than many, many other players that are in.
Do they hold Marshall's wrong way run against him? I doubt that considering what else he did. Do they hold it against him that he was also on a D-Line with Carl Eller and Alan Page? I think that is highly possible.
And Anderson? Do they hold it against him that he didn't win a Super Bowl? I would think not....as many other QBs that are in also did not win. His contemporary, Dan Fouts, never even made it to a Super Bowl. Or do they think he just was too far down the pecking order of his contemporaries? He played 14 years from 1971 to 1984. Yes, Bradshaw, Stabler, Staubach, some with Montana,Griese all of whom won titles and Fouts were his contemporaries.
His CA and Fouts CA were almost identical.....Fouts 162, Anderson 161 (But Fouts played 1 more year....if Fouts played the same number of years, he would have been behind Anderson)
Fouts played in a much more pass happy offense. He had 1200 more career attempts.....and more yards, completions, and TDs...but that all came with many more passes. Yet, Anderson is rated his equal in production....and he actually had a better career production number than the likes of Griese, Stabler, Namath, Aikman, Stauback, Starr, and others. But those guys all won titles where Anderson lost his only bid.
That may indeed be the primary factor in him not getting in.
Of course, the real questions are: Why are not Marshall and Anderson in yet? Zombo might argue that they were not good enough.....
Zombo has Marshall in bold and thinks he is the greatest slight of all players not in the HOF.
Anderson was very good, not great.
Zombo
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Zombo said:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
I'd like to see the guys in bold get in, many are no-brainers. Ben will get in too.
Zombo
Question: Can Mawae and Faneca merely be the OL versions of Vinny Testaverde? Long careers...but just OK? Or were these guys really the cream of the crop?
And why not Taylor and Thomas? Are you showing an anti-Dolphin bias? I know that the Dolphins hadn't been that great a team in their careers, but since Dan Marino, their QB situation has been just a tad above the Browns. Should that be held against these....seemingly outstanding defenders?
Question: Can Mawae and Faneca merely be the OL versions of Vinny Testaverde? Long careers...but just OK? Or were these guys really the cream of the crop?
And why not Taylor and Thomas? Are you showing an anti-Dolphin bias? I know that the Dolphins hadn't been that great a team in their careers, but since Dan Marino, their QB situation has been just a tad above the Browns. Should that be held against these....seemingly outstanding defenders?
Mawae and Faneca were not "just OK" they were outstanding. Faneca did tail off some toward the end of his career when he got off the Steeler juice, but I think he has enough of a resume to get in as premier guard of his era.
Taylor may have a case, in fact I have no problem if he gets in. Thomas another guy that was very good, not great.
Zombo
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Question: Can Mawae and Faneca merely be the OL versions of Vinny Testaverde? Long careers...but just OK? Or were these guys really the cream of the crop?
And why not Taylor and Thomas? Are you showing an anti-Dolphin bias? I know that the Dolphins hadn't been that great a team in their careers, but since Dan Marino, their QB situation has been just a tad above the Browns. Should that be held against these....seemingly outstanding defenders?
Mawae and Faneca were not "just OK" they were outstanding. Faneca did tail off some toward the end of his career when he got off the Steeler juice, but I think he has enough of a resume to get in as premier guard of his era.
Taylor may have a case, in fact I have no problem if he gets in. Thomas another guy that was very good, not great.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Mawae and Faneca were not "just OK" they were outstanding. Faneca did tail off some toward the end of his career when he got off the Steeler juice, but I think he has enough of a resume to get in as premier guard of his era.
Taylor may have a case, in fact I have no problem if he gets in. Thomas another guy that was very good, not great.
Zombo
So, you think these Steeler OL were all juiced up. Has there been any confirmation of that....not that it would surprise me.
That would keep them out of Baseball's HOF....not sure about football.
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Zombo said:
Mawae and Faneca were not "just OK" they were outstanding. Faneca did tail off some toward the end of his career when he got off the Steeler juice, but I think he has enough of a resume to get in as premier guard of his era.
Taylor may have a case, in fact I have no problem if he gets in. Thomas another guy that was very good, not great.
Zombo
So, you think these Steeler OL were all juiced up. Has there been any confirmation of that....not that it would surprise me.
That would keep them out of Baseball's HOF....not sure about football.
So, you think these Steeler OL were all juiced up. Has there been any confirmation of that....not that it would surprise me.
That would keep them out of Baseball's HOF....not sure about football.
All offensive linemen are juiced up. Steelers just ahead of the curve, always have the best stuff. They practically invented it in the 70s.
Zombo
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Of course, the real questions are: Why are not Marshall and Anderson in yet? Zombo might argue that they were not good enough.....
Zombo has Marshall in bold and thinks he is the greatest slight of all players not in the HOF.
Anderson was very good, not great.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Zombo has Marshall in bold and thinks he is the greatest slight of all players not in the HOF.
Anderson was very good, not great.
Zombo
I agree with Zombo living in Bungle-land. Anderson suffers from Archie Manning syndrome- a lot of his teams weren't very good, and his stats don't stick out particularly.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeKe00.htm
Testaverde had a long, and mostly mediocre career- though he's still in the top 10 in passing yardage- does that mean he should get in?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TestVi00.htm
& looking at PFR, Rothlisberger is a lock to get in when he hangs 'em up. Him and Tomlinson are two guys that could have been Browns, and we passed on both of them in the draft.
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& looking at PFR, Rothlisberger is a lock to get in when he hangs 'em up. Him and Tomlinson are two guys that could have been Browns, and we passed on both of them in the draft.
Well, there are a whole litany of guys that fit that mold, including Aaron Rodgers...or Joe Montana....or Tom Brady and probably Emmit Smith etc. etc. etc.
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Here in order of the CA production average are the Top 30 Football players who are not yet in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I am sure we have done this before....so what. We do it again about once a year. Some of these are not yet eligible...but I include all. Who gets in, who stays out:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre......elected
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison.....elected
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
Who should be in, who should be out?
Kurt Warner? Where is he?Here in order of the CA production average are the Top 30 Football players who are not yet in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I am sure we have done this before....so what. We do it again about once a year. Some of these are not yet eligible...but I include all. Who gets in, who stays out:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
Who should be in, who should be out?
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Warner is not in the Hall yet. His greatness was confined to shorter career with some mediocrity (Giants) in the middle, so he is a good example of someone who most definitely belongs in the Hall but doesn't top any numbers list.
If it was the Hall of Numbers, then Kenny Anderson would be in and Joe Namath would be out ... but is the Hall of Fame.
Zombo
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Kurt Warner? Where is he?Here in order of the CA production average are the Top 30 Football players who are not yet in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I am sure we have done this before....so what. We do it again about once a year. Some of these are not yet eligible...but I include all. Who gets in, who stays out:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
Who should be in, who should be out?
One Post From the Truth said:
Kurt Warner? Where is he?
You ask an excellent question. While I have listed the top players in the pfr career production average.....that single stat, though it somewhat tries to be that, is NOT the be all and end all of things. Warner is actually way down on the CA.....because he had a somewhat short career....12 seasons. Compare to like Vinny T.....who had a very long career....and productive in terms of his total numbers...be that CA or completions/yards/TDs etc. But no one, I believe, would put him into the HOF over Warner whose stats are much, much lower than Vinny's.
So, I guess what I am saying is that my original post didn't ask....are these ALL of the players that warrant future HOF consideration.....it is just a specific list of players.....there are others.
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Kurt Warner? Where is he?Here in order of the CA production average are the Top 30 Football players who are not yet in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. I am sure we have done this before....so what. We do it again about once a year. Some of these are not yet eligible...but I include all. Who gets in, who stays out:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Brett Favre
3. Tom Brady
4. Ray Lewis
5. Drew Brees
6. Julius Peppers
7. Terrell Owens
8. Jim Marshall
9. Michael Strahan
10. Randy Moss
11. Marvin Harrison
12. Ken Anderson
13. Jason Taylor
14. Charles Woodson
15. LaDanian Tomlinson
16. Reggie Wayne
17. Kevin Mawae
18. Jeff Saturday
19. Zach Thomas
20. Champ Bailey
21. Ronde Barber
22. Phillip Rivers
23. Brian Urlacher
24. Tony Gonzales
25. Alan Faneca
26. Ben Roethlisberger
27. John Hadl
28. Vinny Testaverde
29. London Fletcher
30. Steve Wisniewski
Who should be in, who should be out?
One Post From the Truth said:
Kurt Warner? Where is he?
Not in yet...see Zombo's post....but note......Favre and Marvin Harrison should be taken off that list above....as they have been elected...just not inducted.
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Warner is not in the Hall yet. His greatness was confined to shorter career with some mediocrity (Giants) in the middle, so he is a good example of someone who most definitely belongs in the Hall but doesn't top any numbers list.
If it was the Hall of Numbers, then Kenny Anderson would be in and Joe Namath would be out ... but is the Hall of Fame.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Warner is not in the Hall yet. His greatness was confined to shorter career with some mediocrity (Giants) in the middle, so he is a good example of someone who most definitely belongs in the Hall but doesn't top any numbers list.
Damn premonitions... swear I have an image of him in a gold blazer giving an inductance speech.
Maybe it was for the Arena HoF...
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Here is a list of first time eligible players that will be up for the 2017 HOF Class:
Brian Dawkins DB
Tommie Harris DL
Chad Johnson (Ochocinco) WR
Larry Johnson RB
Thomas Jones RB
Olin Kreutz OL
Matt Light OL
Derrick Mason WR
Donovan McNabb QB
Joey Porter LB
Bob Sanders DB
Jeremy Shockey TE
Jason Taylor DE
LaDanian Tomlinson RB
Whines Hard WR
Ricky Williams RB
LDT, to me is the only Nicollete Sheridan in this bunch. The interesting one will be Donovan McNabb.
And besides Warner, here are some other current eligibles who may also be highly considered:
Isaac Bruce
Tori Holt
John Lynch
Terrell Davis.
Morten Anderson
T.O.
Kevin Mawae
Edgerrin James
Faneca
Joe Jacoby
Steve Atwater
Who among these will/should make it?
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I have been waiting for 2 Defensive players to be elected in. One famous Nose Tackle is long over due, N.Y. JETS, #73 Joe Klecko, and our very own BROWNS LB, #57 Clay Matthews, clay should go in for a team record holder, and for longevity and years of service.
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I have been waiting for 2 Defensive players to be elected in. One famous Nose Tackle is long over due, N.Y. JETS, #73 Joe Klecko, and our very own BROWNS LB, #57 Clay Matthews, clay should go in for a team record holder, and for longevity and years of service.
I have been waiting for 2 Defensive players to be elected in. One famous Nose Tackle is long over due, N.Y. JETS, #73 Joe Klecko, and our very own BROWNS LB, #57 Clay Matthews, clay should go in for a team record holder, and for longevity and years of service.
Problem is that neither of those guys have even made the Finalist list any time lately. While Clay was one of 108 semifinalists, Klecko didn't even make that.
http://www.profootballhof.com/108-modern-era-nominees-announced-for-class-of-2016/
.jpg.31fb9362634bcb4a2768f82e01243d34.jpg "BrownsfaninPa"){kind=avatar}
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