Swarming defenses outweigh franchise QB's.
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Did I just read that Brady is above average but not special? Is that terms for being removed from the board? Brady threw 50 tds one year. That's Retarded. How many times has he had a badass WR? Edleman is a system guy, and owes his salary to Tom.
Brady might be the best of all time. I remember a 3rd and 10 where the center stepped on Brady's foot and he fell down with the ball. Instead of covering the ball up and punting, he threw a ROPE to the sideline where his WR made an amazing catch for a 1st down. He threw a dart from his ass cheeks, 12 yards, to his guy that could not have been any better. Obviously this doesn't mean he's the best ever, but it's a play I'll never forget.
He threw it while on his ASS.
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how many times has Brady had a great, superstar TE? When Brady started in
2001 they had Troy Brown, a star college wr who slipped in the draft because he was
5'6"...but an outstanding career. Brown played wr for...well over ten years.
and he had Rod Rutledge, te, 6'5", 265 lbs who caught the first pass from Brady..
terrific blocker, 2nd round draft pick.
interesting to note - the Patriots saw that the big TE made a huge difference in their offense,
and they ended up drafting Gronkowski - 6'5", 265 lbs.... 2nd round...
He had Terry Glenn, whose yards and catches plummeted Brady's first year, first round draft pick..
Brady ended up being a terrific qb who had some tools, and a solid pass protecting offensive line,
with a terrific defense. Good combination, tremendous achieivements. But hardly the greatest
qb ever, smart, quick release...
He just went to a good situation and excelled. If he had gone to a bad situation, he wouldn't have, that's all.
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Did I just read that Brady is above average but not special? Is that terms for being removed from the board? Brady threw 50 tds one year. That's Retarded. How many times has he had a badass WR? Edleman is a system guy, and owes his salary to Tom.
Brady might be the best of all time. I remember a 3rd and 10 where the center stepped on Brady's foot and he fell down with the ball. Instead of covering the ball up and punting, he threw a ROPE to the sideline where his WR made an amazing catch for a 1st down. He threw a dart from his ass cheeks, 12 yards, to his guy that could not have been any better. Obviously this doesn't mean he's the best ever, but it's a play I'll never forget.
He threw it while on his ASS.
Did I just read that Brady is above average but not special? Is that terms for being removed from the board? Brady threw 50 tds one year. That's Retard. How many times has he had a badass WR? Edleman is a system guy, and owes his salary to Tom.
Brady might be the best of all time. I remember a 3rd and 10 where the center stepped on Brady's foot and he fell down with the ball. Instead of covering the ball up and punting, he threw a ROPE to the sideline where his WR made an amazing catch for a 1st down. He threw a dart from his ass cheeks, 12 yards, to his guy that could not have been any better. Obviously this doesn't mean he's the best ever, but it's a play I'll never forget.
He threw it while on his ASS.
Brady had a motivated Randy Moss when he threw 50 TD's. Most of those balls he just chucked up and Moss made a ridiculous adjustment for. Also, he grew up a slightly pudgy kid in the Bay Area with no arm. The older he got the stronger he got. Don't rule out some Barry Bonds BALCO type stuff.
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Most? No...
Tom is great. Certainly deserves to be in the convo of GOAT. But since he still apparently has years to go, the argument for him is incomplete.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round? Poor college production and shitty combine performance. He is the original Alex Smith that rode the greatest wave. Plus steroids.
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Most? No...
Tom is great. Certainly deserves to be in the convo of GOAT. But since he still apparently has years to go, the argument for him is incomplete.
Tom is great. Certainly deserves to be in the convo of GOAT
Yep.....actually, he's already my goat.....and just piling on now......
Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round?
Perhaps for the same reasons Kurt Warner, Tony Romo and Warren Moon went undrafted and guys like Montana & Staubach went in the third and 10th rounds......???? ......maybe someone screwed up in the draft room?.....or some just grew and matured as players?.......possibly?
Or....maybe you're speculation is right....all these guys were just lousy college players who became steroid junkies and then reaped the rewards of being on great teams, whilst fooling the whole world into believing they were actually great QB's.....yep.........
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Tom is great. Certainly deserves to be in the convo of GOAT
Yep.....actually, he's already my goat.....and just piling on now......
Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round?
Perhaps for the same reasons Kurt Warner, Tony Romo and Warren Moon went undrafted and guys like Montana & Staubach went in the third and 10th rounds......???? ......maybe someone screwed up in the draft room?.....or some just grew and matured as players?.......possibly?
Or....maybe you're speculation is right....all these guys were just lousy college players who became steroid junkies and then reaped the rewards of being on great teams, whilst fooling the whole world into believing they were actually great QB's.....yep.........
Yep.....actually, he's already my goat.....and just piling on now......
Perhaps for the same reasons Kurt Warner, Tony Romo and Warren Moon went undrafted and guys like Montana & Staubach went in the third and 10th rounds......???? ......maybe someone screwed up in the draft room?.....or some just grew and matured as players?.......possibly?
Or....maybe you're speculation is right....all these guys were just lousy college players who became steroid junkies and then reaped the rewards of being on great teams, whilst fooling the whole world into believing they were actually great QB's.....yep.........
Just talking about Brady. Everybody has a different road. The Pat's defense and kicker were legendary when Brady game managed those SB's. Then he scored under 20 twice against Giants D's that had some pass rush and nothing else. Lost both. And the Seahawks beyond tripped at the finish. Brady is great. GOAT. Fuck that. It's just fun to argue this shit.
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Why don't you guys suck Brady off and get it over with. Jeez
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Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round? Poor college production and shitty combine performance. He is the original Alex Smith that rode the greatest wave. Plus steroids.
Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round? Poor college production and shitty combine performance.
I'd say he wasn't exactly coming out of a QB factory and really was not that athletic. Just remember that shirt-off photo of him... more doughboy than athlete.
Read an account from Belichick that the Pats saw a kid who improved year-over-year and a smart competitor who had a chance to be an NFL QB... that 's it... no other "great insight". Even then when their Compensatory pick rolled around in the 6th they only turned to Brady because their board had been practically exhausted of prospects they liked and the pick was untradeable. So it was more of a "what the hell, nobody else available" choice.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Why did Brady get drafted in the 6th round? Poor college production and shitty combine performance.
I'd say he wasn't exactly coming out of a QB factory and really was not that athletic. Just remember that shirt-off photo of him... more doughboy than athlete.
Read an account from Belichick that the Pats saw a kid who improved year-over-year and a smart competitor who had a chance to be an NFL QB... that 's it... no other "great insight". Even then when their Compensatory pick rolled around in the 6th they only turned to Brady because their board had been practically exhausted of prospects they liked and the pick was untradeable. So it was more of a "what the hell, nobody else available" choice.
I'd say he wasn't exactly coming out of a QB factory and really was not that athletic. Just remember that shirt-off photo of him... more doughboy than athlete.
Read an account from Belichick that the Pats saw a kid who improved year-over-year and a smart competitor who had a chance to be an NFL QB... that 's it... no other "great insight". Even then when their Compensatory pick rolled around in the 6th they only turned to Brady because their board had been practically exhausted of prospects they liked and the pick was untradeable. So it was more of a "what the hell, nobody else available" choice.
And that is what we call dumb stupid luck.
I mean, does anyone think that if Spergon Wynn had been the choice of the Pats then that he and not Tom Brady would have been the golden boy of the last decade and a half?
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Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks.....
When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?"
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Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks.....
When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?"
Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks.....
When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?"
Even smarter to know that the HoF QB would still be there in the 6th round. Boy, those patriots, outfoxing everybody.
I wonder how many QBs are out there that could have been HoF in the right time and place but just weren't so lucky? Maybe they got drafted to a terrible team (like Cleveland) or got injured right at the beginning (like RG3).
Maybe Philip Rivers could have been that guy in New England. Maybe Bruce Arians gets a HC gig 10 years earlier and Carson Palmer is that guy. Maybe Colt McCoy doesn't injure his shoulder, and dinks, dunks, grits and leads his way to the HoF.
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Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks.....
When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?"
Right... basically, the Pats won the lottery.....that is why Brady is the ONLY name folks bring up when discussing 6th round HOF quarterbacks.....
When someone wins the lottery, how many of you think "damn, that guy was so smart to pick those #'s"......"wonder how he knew?"
Bart Starr was a 17th round draft pick. So there is another name.
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I'm reading/hearing a TON about our offense, and how it's way ahead of last year's team at this young part of the season. Now, Browns fans are WAY too smart to get overly excited about training camp fluff, but I have to say, I've never heard anything like what I'm hearing now. Two different people witnessing the Browns' camp have pronounced Corey Coleman as "unguardable". Coaches have him returning punts, running routes he's never done before, and will probably have unique running plays built just for him. Now, Coleman hasn't faced off against ANYONE like Joe Haden or someone even better, but still...how nice is this to hear about a first round pick? Anyways, enough about our offense...
The defense is what I want to hear more about. I don't care too much about the offense because in the end, we won't have a balanced attack if we're down 3 dozen points in the second half. How many games did we get down early last year which cost us the ability run the ball? That's the biggest thing to me. We have to have that "swarming defense" that forces turnovers, keeps us in games, forces FG's instead of giving up TD's...that's what we need. Yeah, sure...the QB would be so nice to have locked up, but if we're down a bunch of points in a ton of games, we aren't going to be balanced. This is so huge because I keep hearing how amazing Crow looks this year. I hear that he looks fast, strong, decisive...everything we need.
Our team had 28 sacks last year...maybe 27. Whatever it was, it was too few to make the impact we needed. I don't know the statistics, but I don't feel like we tackled very well last season either. Remember hearing about our secondary and how they thought they could be an elite unit? Yeah....that didn't happen, for many reasons. Can we finally be better against the run? Do we have a middle linebacker that can make plays all over the field? Who will step up to get sacks? How will both of our new starting safeties fare? Will we get any production from Shelton? Who will step in for Desmond Bryant? Just look how many questions our defense has, and I agree with the poster...a swarming defense is completely vital to establishing a team. Nathan Zegura, our radio host, just said the overall best player in camp is Corey Coleman, and the second is Crowell, with RG III being mentioned as well. I haven't heard ANYTHING about our defenders, except for a little love for Kirksey and K'Waun.
This is just training camp, and it's not worth getting too worked up over. Hell, even the preseason games don't mean that much. I can remember our Jake Delhomme team that looked quite solid in the preseason, and then they choked. We were actually playing damn good football to begin the season, and then Jake made the dumbest pass ever at the end of the first half that resulted in an interception and a TD. I also believe he broke his ankle or something, but I don't remember. I just wish I was hearing more positive things about our defense. I won't say that it has me concerned, but I've been dying for a dominant defense in Cleveland for so long....
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I think it is easier to build a great defense than it is a great offense but I'll take the Packers vs. Texans
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I'm reading/hearing a TON about our offense, and how it's way ahead of last year's team at this young part of the season. Now, Browns fans are WAY too smart to get overly excited about training camp fluff, but I have to say, I've never heard anything like what I'm hearing now. Two different people witnessing the Browns' camp have pronounced Corey Coleman as "unguardable". Coaches have him returning punts, running routes he's never done before, and will probably have unique running plays built just for him. Now, Coleman hasn't faced off against ANYONE like Joe Haden or someone even better, but still...how nice is this to hear about a first round pick? Anyways, enough about our offense...
The defense is what I want to hear more about. I don't care too much about the offense because in the end, we won't have a balanced attack if we're down 3 dozen points in the second half. How many games did we get down early last year which cost us the ability run the ball? That's the biggest thing to me. We have to have that "swarming defense" that forces turnovers, keeps us in games, forces FG's instead of giving up TD's...that's what we need. Yeah, sure...the QB would be so nice to have locked up, but if we're down a bunch of points in a ton of games, we aren't going to be balanced. This is so huge because I keep hearing how amazing Crow looks this year. I hear that he looks fast, strong, decisive...everything we need.
Our team had 28 sacks last year...maybe 27. Whatever it was, it was too few to make the impact we needed. I don't know the statistics, but I don't feel like we tackled very well last season either. Remember hearing about our secondary and how they thought they could be an elite unit? Yeah....that didn't happen, for many reasons. Can we finally be better against the run? Do we have a middle linebacker that can make plays all over the field? Who will step up to get sacks? How will both of our new starting safeties fare? Will we get any production from Shelton? Who will step in for Desmond Bryant? Just look how many questions our defense has, and I agree with the poster...a swarming defense is completely vital to establishing a team. Nathan Zegura, our radio host, just said the overall best player in camp is Corey Coleman, and the second is Crowell, with RG III being mentioned as well. I haven't heard ANYTHING about our defenders, except for a little love for Kirksey and K'Waun.
This is just training camp, and it's not worth getting too worked up over. Hell, even the preseason games don't mean that much. I can remember our Jake Delhomme team that looked quite solid in the preseason, and then they choked. We were actually playing damn good football to begin the season, and then Jake made the dumbest pass ever at the end of the first half that resulted in an interception and a TD. I also believe he broke his ankle or something, but I don't remember. I just wish I was hearing more positive things about our defense. I won't say that it has me concerned, but I've been dying for a dominant defense in Cleveland for so long....
I don't know the statistics, but I don't feel like we tackled very well last season either.We were a crappy tackling team.
Hue, with his siren, is working on that this camp.
We had bad coaching. The defensive players weren't even sure what they were supposed to be doing...basing their actions on what the guys in front of them MIGHT be thinking. At the end of the season Kruger said, 'They didn't use me right, all season'.
We do have new faces on that side of the ball...and an injury to cover for...but the addition by subtraction factor (Pettine & O'Neal) is probably worth a handful of points per game in itself.
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The thing about the GOOD QB (and good passing attack) is that it covers for a weak defense better than a GOOD D can cover for a weak offense. IMO
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Coleman can be covered. Sit on his inside hip, don't give him a clean release and don't be too high on him.
He's a young receiver still learning to work the sideline and tells on his double moves. Get some tape and DB's will start giving him cushion looking to drive on the underneath stuff inside.
He has a ceiling. It's a high one, but it's there.
If he's doing business against Tramon and Joe, we'll talk.
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