No Love for Quinn
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@inspecta said:
Oh that's right, derek bear only beats teams that suck out loud and with nothing on the line.Beats them every time. Also beats the Giants, Seahawks, Jaguars.
Meanwhile, Quinn just loses to all teams, shitty or not.
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@jadbf said:
really? he didn't win any of his 3 starts??? LOL once again, in his effort to be "funny" Lums falls flat again with the lack of basic knowledge he has.and the Seahawks? are you really trotting out the SEAHAWKS as a quality win?
c'mon it went to overtime!
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@jadbf said:
and the Seahawks? are you really trotting out the SEAHAWKS as a quality win?yes, a win over the NFC West champ is a quality win.
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@jadbf said:
and the Seahawks? are you really trotting out the SEAHAWKS as a quality win?yes, a win over the NFC West champ is a quality win.
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Only reason that I mentioned pedigree was because I have seen 1 or 2 posters use that word as a reason to start BQ. Since we can all agree that BQ does not have a NFL pedigree I assumed it was his college pedigree that was being talked about. And I wanted to know what in BQs college career screams leader and winner? Did ND win any big games with BQ at the helm? I can agree that it is not BQs fault that ND did not win, but I just want all the talk to stop about BQs pedigree is all.
You can make a case for BQ starting, but not because he is a low first round pick or because he never won a game that mattered at ND. But because DA has proven that he is likely not the answer and that the Browns need to find out if BQ is the answer. I have not seen anything that makes me think BQ is the answer, but I have not seen anything that tells me he is not either. There is not enough of a sample size to know.
If both Qbs are on the team this year then you must have a open competiton. Let the new regime see who they think is the better fit for the team. I don't know who that will be, but I would say that I think that BQ will have the upper hand because he can control a game better. I say that not because I like BQ, because in fact I don't, I say it because it is true. DA is a big play QB and tends to make mistakes when taking chances. I think that the new regime is trying to build with defense and ball control. That is much more up BQs alley than DAs. That is why I think BQ will and prolly should start. Because he will manage the game better and may not win allot of games but he will not lose them either.
That is just an opinion on the type of Qbs they are. I think DA will win you more games than BQ but I also think that he will lose you more games than BQ also. I am not an expert on the new system but I think for the division that the Browns are in you should build with defense and line play and have a QB that will not make as many mistakes. Let the team win you the games and not the QB. For that reason I think BQ will get the starting nod, but if he doesn't then I think people should realize that just maybe he is not that great. Because after all he will just be in competition with DA.
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I'm not sure why anyone wants to, or is willing to debate Lummy...I now have over 800 post and have never had one debate with him. I just don't see the reasoning behind it. You are not going to change his mind. He's NEVER going to say "Oh yeah, you are right". It's like beating your head against a wall. Except in this case the wall is lummy and he enjoys you beating your head up against him. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of wasting my valuable time on him.
I think you guys are mistaken if you think this has anything to do with his love of and respect for Derek Anderson. His whole thing is his deep hatred for Quinn and pissing you guys off. It wouldn't matter if Quinn was in a QB showdown with Ken Dorsey...Lum would be a supporter of Dorsey only because of his hatred of Quinn.
Posters like this normally will go away if you simply stop debating him. He thrives on trying to piss you off. It's so obvious. He adds nothing to the board but his constant ( and at times disgusting) degrading of Quinn for nothing more than his hatred of him....whether it's a persona or professional thing with Quinn, it doesn't matter. Lummy is not going to change.
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It's not about DA's draft position, D&S, it's about Quinn's.
Like it or not, a first round pick was used to draft Quinn and an organization cannot afford to waste those picks on players who never even see the field. Having a guy bust is one thing, having him never play for no good reason is another entirely.
And a first round QB with Quinn's pedigree certainly should not be kept off the field for "just plain not that bad". A first round pick is selected to PLAY, and ideally to improve the team. What you and Lum fail to realize is that DA is NOT improving the team with his "not that bad" play, and therefore he's gotta go.
Finally, if it takes Quinn -- or any other player, for that matter -- to "improve" to DA's level of "just plain not that bad", then we will never get past being "just plain not that bad" as a franchise.
Not exactly the heights I'm shooting for.
That's all nice and dandy, but what if after you get the first rounder in, you realize your 6th rounder is playing at a higher level and you want to win now? Do you play the first rounder because he's a first rounder, or do you play the guy you genuinely think gives you the best chance to win???
So many people here seem to think this scenario hasn't existed... well folks, either it did, or the last coaching and management staff was just screwing with you personally even though their careers would be jeopardized.
It'll be interesting to see what the new group does.
That's all nice and dandy, but what if after you get the first rounder in, you realize your 6th rounder is playing at a higher level and you want to win now? Do you play the first rounder because he's a first rounder, or do you play the guy you genuinely think gives you the best chance to win???
So many people here seem to think this scenario hasn't existed... well folks, either it did, or the last coaching and management staff was just screwing with you personally even though their careers would be jeopardized.
It'll be interesting to see what the new group does.
You always play the guys that give the team the best chance to win. That's not the argument here.
The whole point of this never-ending conversation is that RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION by paying/playing DA, and that decision cost us not only the whole 2008 season but both of them their jobs and the organization millions of dollars.
You can make whatever excuses you want to make for DA but the facts that matter are clear: DA failed to win games and failed to lead the team in a positive direction. While he was the starting QB, the Browns looked awful more than they looked good. Period.
If he was a quality NFL QB, he would have been part of the solution. He clearly and consistently was part of the problem. And that's what it boils down to now.
DA had his chance. He got paid to be the starting QB. He failed. Those that made the decision to make him the starting QB were fired. DA should be fired as well.
Which brings us back to: we spent a first-round pick on a top QB. Normally, getting a guy like Quinn is cause for excitement for a franchise and the fan base was rightly excited about the possibilities of a highly-touted QB playing in Cleveland.
Many of us would like to see if that excitement based on potential has a basis in reality.
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That's all nice and dandy, but what if after you get the first rounder in, you realize your 6th rounder is playing at a higher level and you want to win now? Do you play the first rounder because he's a first rounder, or do you play the guy you genuinely think gives you the best chance to win???
So many people here seem to think this scenario hasn't existed... well folks, either it did, or the last coaching and management staff was just screwing with you personally even though their careers would be jeopardized.
It'll be interesting to see what the new group does.
You always play the guys that give the team the best chance to win. That's not the argument here.
The whole point of this never-ending conversation is that RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION by paying/playing DA, and that decision cost us not only the whole 2008 season but both of them their jobs and the organization millions of dollars.
You can make whatever excuses you want to make for DA but the facts that matter are clear: DA failed to win games and failed to lead the team in a positive direction. While he was the starting QB, the Browns looked awful more than they looked good. Period.
If he was a quality NFL QB, he would have been part of the solution. He clearly and consistently was part of the problem. And that's what it boils down to now.
DA had his chance. He got paid to be the starting QB. He failed. Those that made the decision to make him the starting QB were fired. DA should be fired as well.
Which brings us back to: we spent a first-round pick on a top QB. Normally, getting a guy like Quinn is cause for excitement for a franchise and the fan base was rightly excited about the possibilities of a highly-touted QB playing in Cleveland.
Many of us would like to see if that excitement based on potential has a basis in reality.
You always play the guys that give the team the best chance to win. That's not the argument here.
The whole point of this never-ending conversation is that RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION by paying/playing DA, and that decision cost us not only the whole 2008 season but both of them their jobs and the organization millions of dollars.
You can make whatever excuses you want to make for DA but the facts that matter are clear: DA failed to win games and failed to lead the team in a positive direction. While he was the starting QB, the Browns looked awful more than they looked good. Period.
If he was a quality NFL QB, he would have been part of the solution. He clearly and consistently was part of the problem. And that's what it boils down to now.
DA had his chance. He got paid to be the starting QB. He failed. Those that made the decision to make him the starting QB were fired. DA should be fired as well.
Which brings us back to: we spent a first-round pick on a top QB. Normally, getting a guy like Quinn is cause for excitement for a franchise and the fan base was rightly excited about the possibilities of a highly-touted QB playing in Cleveland.
Many of us would like to see if that excitement based on potential has a basis in reality.
You say "RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION" but you don't know.
In the leadup to fall last year, nearly all reports coming out were saying that DA was clearly moving the team better than BQ in practice and looked the part of the starter. What they didn't say was that the Browns were gonna suck bad for the year, no matter who was at QB between the two guys vying for the spot.
I say let there be an open competition between the two under the new management... then we'll see if RAC/Savage made the wrong decision or not. Anyone who doesn't want to see that is chickenspit. If BQ is the guy many of you say he is, it'll be his position come the first game.
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You always play the guys that give the team the best chance to win. That's not the argument here.
The whole point of this never-ending conversation is that RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION by paying/playing DA, and that decision cost us not only the whole 2008 season but both of them their jobs and the organization millions of dollars.
You can make whatever excuses you want to make for DA but the facts that matter are clear: DA failed to win games and failed to lead the team in a positive direction. While he was the starting QB, the Browns looked awful more than they looked good. Period.
If he was a quality NFL QB, he would have been part of the solution. He clearly and consistently was part of the problem. And that's what it boils down to now.
DA had his chance. He got paid to be the starting QB. He failed. Those that made the decision to make him the starting QB were fired. DA should be fired as well.
Which brings us back to: we spent a first-round pick on a top QB. Normally, getting a guy like Quinn is cause for excitement for a franchise and the fan base was rightly excited about the possibilities of a highly-touted QB playing in Cleveland.
Many of us would like to see if that excitement based on potential has a basis in reality.
You say "RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION" but you don't know.
In the leadup to fall last year, nearly all reports coming out were saying that DA was clearly moving the team better than BQ in practice and looked the part of the starter. What they didn't say was that the Browns were gonna suck bad for the year, no matter who was at QB between the two guys vying for the spot.
I say let there be an open competition between the two under the new management... then we'll see if RAC/Savage made the wrong decision or not. Anyone who doesn't want to see that is chickenspit. If BQ is the guy many of you say he is, it'll be his position come the first game.
You say "RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION" but you don't know.
In the leadup to fall last year, nearly all reports coming out were saying that DA was clearly moving the team better than BQ in practice and looked the part of the starter. What they didn't say was that the Browns were gonna suck bad for the year, no matter who was at QB between the two guys vying for the spot.
I say let there be an open competition between the two under the new management... then we'll see if RAC/Savage made the wrong decision or not. Anyone who doesn't want to see that is chickenspit. If BQ is the guy many of you say he is, it'll be his position come the first game.
Of course DA looked the part better than Quinn last year in practice. He had NO pressure of a competition on him, he had already been named starter and the whole world was told there was NO competition. That's when DA performs best, when there are no expectations and no pressure. You noticed he didn't carry that level of play into the season, right?
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You say "RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION" but you don't know.
In the leadup to fall last year, nearly all reports coming out were saying that DA was clearly moving the team better than BQ in practice and looked the part of the starter. What they didn't say was that the Browns were gonna suck bad for the year, no matter who was at QB between the two guys vying for the spot.
I say let there be an open competition between the two under the new management... then we'll see if RAC/Savage made the wrong decision or not. Anyone who doesn't want to see that is chickenspit. If BQ is the guy many of you say he is, it'll be his position come the first game.
Of course DA looked the part better than Quinn last year in practice. He had NO pressure of a competition on him, he had already been named starter and the whole world was told there was NO competition. That's when DA performs best, when there are no expectations and no pressure. You noticed he didn't carry that level of play into the season, right?
Of course DA looked the part better than Quinn last year in practice. He had NO pressure of a competition on him, he had already been named starter and the whole world was told there was NO competition. That's when DA performs best, when there are no expectations and no pressure. You noticed he didn't carry that level of play into the season, right?
Give me a break! I think the coach is in a MUCH BETTER position to determine who the better QB is, not some armchair coach who is in love with BQ. The better QB won, DA. This Quinn love in here is getting nauseating. I'm not saying DA is a great QB, just better then BQ, as judged by the coach. Not the fans who have no clue as to whom is better.
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Of course DA looked the part better than Quinn last year in practice. He had NO pressure of a competition on him, he had already been named starter and the whole world was told there was NO competition. That's when DA performs best, when there are no expectations and no pressure. You noticed he didn't carry that level of play into the season, right?
Give me a break! I think the coach is in a MUCH BETTER position to determine who the better QB is, not some armchair coach who is in love with BQ. The better QB won, DA. This Quinn love in here is getting nauseating. I'm not saying DA is a great QB, just better then BQ, as judged by the coach. Not the fans who have no clue as to whom is better.
Give me a break! I think the coach is in a MUCH BETTER position to determine who the better QB is, not some armchair coach who is in love with BQ. The better QB won, DA. This Quinn love in here is getting nauseating. I'm not saying DA is a great QB, just better then BQ, as judged by the coach. Not the fans who have no clue as to whom is better.
WHAT COMPETITION?
I missed where Savage or Crennel EVER said there was a competition. Stop revising history.
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If Quinn gets traded, I'm hoping we either keep Anderson or get someone else.
I don't want us drafting Sanchez, because I think he's a bust of epic proportions at #5, especially considering the other players that may be available that we can actually use and do need.
I'd much rather ride the year out with DA and see if the new staff can do something with him, then draft a QB next year if they can't.
JMO.
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If Quinn gets traded, I'm hoping we either keep Anderson or get someone else.
I don't want us drafting Sanchez, because I think he's a bust of epic proportions at #5, especially considering the other players that may be available that we can actually use and do need.
I'd much rather ride the year out with DA and see if the new staff can do something with him, then draft a QB next year if they can't.
JMO.
If Quinn gets traded, I'm hoping we either keep Anderson or get someone else.
I don't want us drafting Sanchez, because I think he's a bust of epic proportions at #5, especially considering the other players that may be available that we can actually use and do need.
I'd much rather ride the year out with DA and see if the new staff can do something with him, then draft a QB next year if they can't.
JMO.
We need farm teams for the nfl.... Quinn could have been playing in the D league or whatever and already be ready to step in.
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Even though Kokinis didn't say much at his press conference, I did pick up something very telling.
Kokinis said there will be a QB competition and as of now, both are still on the team. Then he said Quinn is upstairs working with Dabol and they have been working on the playbook every day. He wouldn't confirm that DA had minor surgery during the off season but said DA is working out and when minicamp get here he expects him to be 100% and competing with Quinn.
I might be reading too much into it, but why would Quinn be working with dabol everyday on the playbook if they were going to trade him? Also, where is Anderson? He was playing golf on the west coast most of the off season. Didn't sound like he was even in Berea.
Why didn't Kokinis say that Anderson and Quinn are working with Dabol on the new offense and playbook?
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@inspecta said:
Hey Lemosely, is that Vingh Rames in your sig?Kind of looks like him or Karl Weathers (sp?), but it's not. Just a pic from Gears of War or Halo.
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You always play the guys that give the team the best chance to win. That's not the argument here.
The whole point of this never-ending conversation is that RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION by paying/playing DA, and that decision cost us not only the whole 2008 season but both of them their jobs and the organization millions of dollars.
You can make whatever excuses you want to make for DA but the facts that matter are clear: DA failed to win games and failed to lead the team in a positive direction. While he was the starting QB, the Browns looked awful more than they looked good. Period.
If he was a quality NFL QB, he would have been part of the solution. He clearly and consistently was part of the problem. And that's what it boils down to now.
DA had his chance. He got paid to be the starting QB. He failed. Those that made the decision to make him the starting QB were fired. DA should be fired as well.
Which brings us back to: we spent a first-round pick on a top QB. Normally, getting a guy like Quinn is cause for excitement for a franchise and the fan base was rightly excited about the possibilities of a highly-touted QB playing in Cleveland.
Many of us would like to see if that excitement based on potential has a basis in reality.
You say "RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION" but you don't know.
In the leadup to fall last year, nearly all reports coming out were saying that DA was clearly moving the team better than BQ in practice and looked the part of the starter. What they didn't say was that the Browns were gonna suck bad for the year, no matter who was at QB between the two guys vying for the spot.
I say let there be an open competition between the two under the new management... then we'll see if RAC/Savage made the wrong decision or not. Anyone who doesn't want to see that is chickenspit. If BQ is the guy many of you say he is, it'll be his position come the first game.
You say "RAC/Savage MADE THE WRONG DECISION" but you don't know.
In the leadup to fall last year, nearly all reports coming out were saying that DA was clearly moving the team better than BQ in practice and looked the part of the starter. What they didn't say was that the Browns were gonna suck bad for the year, no matter who was at QB between the two guys vying for the spot.
I say let there be an open competition between the two under the new management... then we'll see if RAC/Savage made the wrong decision or not. Anyone who doesn't want to see that is chickenspit. If BQ is the guy many of you say he is, it'll be his position come the first game.
Um, we do know, D&S. The Browns finished 4-12. DA was the starter for the crucial first half of the season. How'd we start out again? 1-5, I believe?
Oh, and are RAC and Savage still employed by the Browns? No.
Finally, do you think they would have been fired had Quinn been playing, regardless of the Browns' finish?
No, again.
So what were you saying about their decision to play DA again? Still confused?
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No to mention the additional 1st and 3rd round picks that could have been on the team had we let DA go. Who knows how those picks would have impacted our 2008 draft and thus our 2009 draft.
But one thing is for sure: two potential high-impact players would have made a big difference, either to the offense or defense.
But keeping DA obviously was the right choice...
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Of course DA looked the part better than Quinn last year in practice. He had NO pressure of a competition on him, he had already been named starter and the whole world was told there was NO competition. That's when DA performs best, when there are no expectations and no pressure. You noticed he didn't carry that level of play into the season, right?
Give me a break! I think the coach is in a MUCH BETTER position to determine who the better QB is, not some armchair coach who is in love with BQ. The better QB won, DA. This Quinn love in here is getting nauseating. I'm not saying DA is a great QB, just better then BQ, as judged by the coach. Not the fans who have no clue as to whom is better.
Give me a break! I think the coach is in a MUCH BETTER position to determine who the better QB is, not some armchair coach who is in love with BQ. The better QB won, DA. This Quinn love in here is getting nauseating. I'm not saying DA is a great QB, just better then BQ, as judged by the coach. Not the fans who have no clue as to whom is better.
You mean the coach that got fired? Yeah, pretty darn good judge of talent he was. Of course leave it to a DA lover to accuse anyone who doesn't think of DA as a good QB of being a BQ lover. You've never seen me say anything about BQ one way or the other. Just that DA sucks and this team is going nowhere if he is the starter.
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