No Love for Quinn
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I might be reading too much into it, but why would Quinn be working with dabol everyday on the playbook if they were going to trade him? Also, where is Anderson? He was playing golf on the west coast most of the off season. Didn't sound like he was even in Berea.
Why didn't Kokinis say that Anderson and Quinn are working with Dabol on the new offense and playbook?
According to Doerschuk DA's been a regular at Berea: http://blogs.cantonrep.com/2009/04/freshbr...n-in-the-house/
Is curious about the playbook question though.
According to Doerschuk DA's been a regular at Berea: http://blogs.cantonrep.com/2009/04/freshbr...n-in-the-house/
Is curious about the playbook question though.
Funny, The Golf Channel showed him playing in AZ in a celebrity Pro-Am just a few weeks ago and before that I saw him playing in Palm Springs. He may have been in and out to say hello and maybe work out for awhile, but he has been out west playing golf most of the winter and also in March.
I just thought the comment was a little funny that he stated "Quinn and Dabol are upstairs working on the playbook. They have been working everyday". He never mentioned Anderson and was very vague when questioned about his off season surgery. His only comment was,"He's working out". He didn't say where.
But, we will know what's going to happen in a week.
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@inspecta said:
Ok tough guy, wanna take the bet I offered Lumnuts?If there is a head to head camp battle I bet Quinn beats the snot out of the Oaf, if the Oaf wins I will leave this board forever, if Quinn wins you have to leave.
The caveat to this bet is if there is an injury that prevents one from playing.
Here's the deal. I've always held open the possibility that DA gets traded, loses out to Quinn in a fair battle, or Quinn the same. You've got people here saying DA's worth little and this is Quinn's team, and refusing to even hear of an open competition. I'm not gonna make false offer like you are, frankly I think it lowers you to make offers that you wouldn't honor or expect nobody to take.
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@inspecta said:
Ok tough guy, wanna take the bet I offered Lumnuts?If there is a head to head camp battle I bet Quinn beats the snot out of the Oaf, if the Oaf wins I will leave this board forever, if Quinn wins you have to leave.
The caveat to this bet is if there is an injury that prevents one from playing.
Here's the deal. I've always held open the possibility that DA gets traded, loses out to Quinn in a fair battle, or Quinn the same. You've got people here saying DA's worth little and this is Quinn's team, and refusing to even hear of an open competition. I'm not gonna make false offer like you are, frankly I think it lowers you to make offers that you wouldn't honor or expect nobody to take.
frankly I think it lowers you to make offers that you wouldn't honor or expect nobody to take.
What a cop-out. I can vouch for Inspecta personally....he'll hold up his end of the deal, even if he's pounding his head in the wall while biting his tongue as he's doing it.
If Quinn is unproven and such a sure-fire fcuk-up while DA is the golden god of QB's, then just take his bet. But don't sit there and pull this "...but...but...but...if I win, then you're not gonna keep up your end of the deal, so I just won't do it" BULLSHIT.
I'll join Inspecta in this little proposition. If Dexter wins then I will never post on this board again. If Quinn wins, you won't.
So, you game?
You could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if you're right.
"I like to quote myself." -Me -
frankly I think it lowers you to make offers that you wouldn't honor or expect nobody to take.
What a cop-out. I can vouch for Inspecta personally....he'll hold up his end of the deal, even if he's pounding his head in the wall while biting his tongue as he's doing it.
If Quinn is unproven and such a sure-fire fcuk-up while DA is the golden god of QB's, then just take his bet. But don't sit there and pull this "...but...but...but...if I win, then you're not gonna keep up your end of the deal, so I just won't do it" BULLSHIT.
I'll join Inspecta in this little proposition. If Dexter wins then I will never post on this board again. If Quinn wins, you won't.
So, you game?
You could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if you're right.
What a cop-out. I can vouch for Inspecta personally....he'll hold up his end of the deal, even if he's pounding his head in the wall while biting his tongue as he's doing it.
If Quinn is unproven and such a sure-fire fcuk-up while DA is the golden god of QB's, then just take his bet. But don't sit there and pull this "...but...but...but...if I win, then you're not gonna keep up your end of the deal, so I just won't do it" BULLSHIT.
I'll join Inspecta in this little proposition. If Dexter wins then I will never post on this board again. If Quinn wins, you won't.
So, you game?
You could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if you're right.
It's real easy to make "bets" you know nobody's gonna take and them call them chicken.
I've never said Quinn's a sure-fire fcuk-up or that DA's the golden god of QB's. Heck, I'm leaving the door wide open for BQ to take the spot. I just think he should take it rather than have it handed to him. That's all. If he's so good, he should be able to.
Aloha,
Steve
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What a cop-out. I can vouch for Inspecta personally....he'll hold up his end of the deal, even if he's pounding his head in the wall while biting his tongue as he's doing it.
If Quinn is unproven and such a sure-fire fcuk-up while DA is the golden god of QB's, then just take his bet. But don't sit there and pull this "...but...but...but...if I win, then you're not gonna keep up your end of the deal, so I just won't do it" BULLSHIT.
I'll join Inspecta in this little proposition. If Dexter wins then I will never post on this board again. If Quinn wins, you won't.
So, you game?
You could kill 2 birds with 1 stone if you're right.
It's real easy to make "bets" you know nobody's gonna take and them call them chicken.
I've never said Quinn's a sure-fire fcuk-up or that DA's the golden god of QB's. Heck, I'm leaving the door wide open for BQ to take the spot. I just think he should take it rather than have it handed to him. That's all. If he's so good, he should be able to.
Aloha,
Steve
It's real easy to make "bets" you know nobody's gonna take and them call them chicken.
Bets that "you know nobody's gonna take?"
Luvbergh pops up here regularly verbally fellating DA and bashing BQ.....seems like a guy that would be more than willing to take the bet in question - yet he hasn't.
Judging by most of your posts, you're nothing but yet another on the Oralgon Trail Manwagon.
You say that Inspecta's bet is one that "nobody's gonna take.".....hmmmmmmmmm....a neutral observer (also known as a BROWNS fan, not a Manwagonner) would just HAVE TO ask the question "Why would NOBODY (according to YOU) take that wager?"
Perhaps Dexter isn't quite the stud that you thought he was and you're just hanging on to the slightest sliver of a hope that he will suddenly and miraculously improve areas of his game that he hasn't been able to improve since high school? After all, Quinn's just an unproven, over-hyped QB that had a draft slide.
And, for some reason excuse, the Manwagon on TheBrownsBoard.com (best website ever), won't put anything on it.
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Mangini and the staff have watched every tape there is of both Quinn and Anderson. They've watched both in minicamp and Daboll is working with both daily in learning the offense. I think they're better suited to figuring out if either guy can win in this league than anyone here. I also think that Kokinis would be a fool not to listen to trade offers since the draft pick cupboard is bare. You people are far too harsh on Anderson which is equally as disconcerting as your love for Quinn. The guy throws 29 (29!) TDs one year and in the span of the next few games becomes a bum? If only life were as simply as these people would make it out to be.
I don't care what you have on your team in terms of vets and free agents, if you don't draft well you will either wind up a team full of aging question marks or in salary cap hell. You can't draft right without draft picks.
Lastly, I'd caution those of you Quinn lovers who are simply on the "homer bandwagon". I am guilty of this too with some of my hometown guys but at this level of football you MUST look at the roster dispassionately to make decisions. You can't cloud your judgment by giving guys "extra" shots or support them a little more than you normally would because he's from the area. Screw that. I think it's very unusual for a hometown kid to lead his hometown team to victory these days. Leave that for class reunions and fantasy leagues.
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Mangini and the staff have watched every tape there is of both Quinn and Anderson. They've watched both in minicamp and Daboll is working with both daily in learning the offense. I think they're better suited to figuring out if either guy can win in this league than anyone here. I also think that Kokinis would be a fool not to listen to trade offers since the draft pick cupboard is bare. You people are far too harsh on Anderson which is equally as disconcerting as your love for Quinn. The guy throws 29 (29!) TDs one year and in the span of the next few games becomes a bum? If only life were as simply as these people would make it out to be.
I don't care what you have on your team in terms of vets and free agents, if you don't draft well you will either wind up a team full of aging question marks or in salary cap hell. You can't draft right without draft picks.
Lastly, I'd caution those of you Quinn lovers who are simply on the "homer bandwagon". I am guilty of this too with some of my hometown guys but at this level of football you MUST look at the roster dispassionately to make decisions. You can't cloud your judgment by giving guys "extra" shots or support them a little more than you normally would because he's from the area. Screw that. I think it's very unusual for a hometown kid to lead his hometown team to victory these days. Leave that for class reunions and fantasy leagues.
Mangini and the staff have watched every tape there is of both Quinn and Anderson. They've watched both in minicamp and Daboll is working with both daily in learning the offense. I think they're better suited to figuring out if either guy can win in this league than anyone here. I also think that Kokinis would be a fool not to listen to trade offers since the draft pick cupboard is bare. You people are far too harsh on Anderson which is equally as disconcerting as your love for Quinn. The guy throws 29 (29!) TDs one year and in the span of the next few games becomes a bum? If only life were as simply as these people would make it out to be.
I don't care what you have on your team in terms of vets and free agents, if you don't draft well you will either wind up a team full of aging question marks or in salary cap hell. You can't draft right without draft picks.
Lastly, I'd caution those of you Quinn lovers who are simply on the "homer bandwagon". I am guilty of this too with some of my hometown guys but at this level of football you MUST look at the roster dispassionately to make decisions. You can't cloud your judgment by giving guys "extra" shots or support them a little more than you normally would because he's from the area. Screw that. I think it's very unusual for a hometown kid to lead his hometown team to victory these days. Leave that for class reunions and fantasy leagues.
Its all fine and dandy that he had 29 tds. But he also got darn near half of those in 3 or 4 games against the worst competition. Stop judging DA's 2007 season on TDs alone. Also take into account that he was 2nd in the league in INTs at 19, yet only sacked like 14 times? That's a lotta picks for so little pressure. Also watch the games. He had a few great games, and a few very bad games, and most of them very average games. Everyone keeps talking about how good his first half of 2007 was, but go back and look at the numbers. His inconsistency showed from the very beginning. Not too good against Pitt coming off the bench, but that's excusable, great Cincy game, bad Oak game, good Balt game, bad NE game.
The point is, DA cannot be defined by stats alone, nor can any QB. You have actually see how the guy is playing as a whole.
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@jadbf said:
But that still doesn't account for how good ole Charlie Frye could beat out your snookems in a head to head training camp battle now does it?You forget.
According to RAC, the competition was going to extend into the season.
He didn't declare a winner before week 1.
The winner was named on Tuesday of week 2.
You forget.
Geee, more Loverboy reflecting on "The Way We Were" with DA. There's a surprise.
I see we're gonna play more keep away from how DA closed his 2006 starts with 4 INTs vrs Tampa. Did he get betetr with each start? Not there.
How about 2008? We always play keep away from the 2nd Cincy Game, which was 365 days after the 06 debacle in Tampa. Anyway, DA threw 4 INTs again showing me the same guy I saw exactly 1 year before. Again, was that improvement as he got more starts under his belt?
- Tom F.
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I went to Oregon State and I think DA is better than most give him credit for. But, I do not think he is the long term answer in Cleveland. I am not sure BQ is either but I don't know. But, with that said I will take the Bet. If both QBs are on the roster and niether is traded before the first game I think DA will win the battle (not really but I want to take the bet) for starting QB. If BQ is the starter on game one you can pick a avatar for me, if he is not then you get a avatar that has something to do with DA owning BQ at every level that they have played in. Was higher rated coming out of High School, beat him in head to head competition in College and beat him out as starter of the Browns. Somethign along those lines, that will be fun.
Of course if either QB is traded then the bet is null and void.
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Mangini and the staff have watched every tape there is of both Quinn and Anderson. They've watched both in minicamp and Daboll is working with both daily in learning the offense. I think they're better suited to figuring out if either guy can win in this league than anyone here. I also think that Kokinis would be a fool not to listen to trade offers since the draft pick cupboard is bare. You people are far too harsh on Anderson which is equally as disconcerting as your love for Quinn. The guy throws 29 (29!) TDs one year and in the span of the next few games becomes a bum? If only life were as simply as these people would make it out to be.
I don't care what you have on your team in terms of vets and free agents, if you don't draft well you will either wind up a team full of aging question marks or in salary cap hell. You can't draft right without draft picks.
Lastly, I'd caution those of you Quinn lovers who are simply on the "homer bandwagon". I am guilty of this too with some of my hometown guys but at this level of football you MUST look at the roster dispassionately to make decisions. You can't cloud your judgment by giving guys "extra" shots or support them a little more than you normally would because he's from the area. Screw that. I think it's very unusual for a hometown kid to lead his hometown team to victory these days. Leave that for class reunions and fantasy leagues.
Its all fine and dandy that he had 29 tds. But he also got darn near half of those in 3 or 4 games against the worst competition. Stop judging DA's 2007 season on TDs alone. Also take into account that he was 2nd in the league in INTs at 19, yet only sacked like 14 times? That's a lotta picks for so little pressure. Also watch the games. He had a few great games, and a few very bad games, and most of them very average games. Everyone keeps talking about how good his first half of 2007 was, but go back and look at the numbers. His inconsistency showed from the very beginning. Not too good against Pitt coming off the bench, but that's excusable, great Cincy game, bad Oak game, good Balt game, bad NE game.
The point is, DA cannot be defined by stats alone, nor can any QB. You have actually see how the guy is playing as a whole.
The point is, DA cannot be defined by stats alone, nor can any QB. You have actually see how the guy is playing as a whole.
Exactly, and I'm sure the coaches and team management are making their decisions base on the whole picture, not just a partial picture like many here.
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@inspecta said:
I think the manwagoners are scared to take the bet due to the finality of it all.How about we change the parameters of the bet to make it more palatable for them when DA gets his ass handed to him.
IF DA wins I will put in my sig a pic of DA stating he's the greatest QB of all time. or better yet, I'll let them pick my sig for me and I'll proudly wear that sig for the entire 2009 season. IF BQ wins the bet then I get to pick a sig for them to wear for the entire 2009 season.
There, is that easier for you guys to handle or are you still too chicken shit?
I'm gonna go ahead and guess the latter...
Which "manwagoners" have been afraid of an open competition? I've seen many BQ fans here not even wanting that to happen.
Now you're talking... A simple "I'm a dumbass when it comes to Quarterbacks, don't listen to me" signature or something along those lines would be fine. No need for total emasculation for either loser. Sadly the tone of this entire argument has been getting more and more hostile, never my intent.
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The point is, DA cannot be defined by stats alone, nor can any QB. You have actually see how the guy is playing as a whole.
Exactly, and I'm sure the coaches and team management are making their decisions base on the whole picture, not just a partial picture like many here.
Exactly, and I'm sure the coaches and team management are making their decisions base on the whole picture, not just a partial picture like many here.
My good God, you guys must be constructed of particularly dense material up there in Oregonia.
There's no "partial picture" clouding things for most of us. Most of us are not particularly fond of Quinn per se. What many of us want -- and have always wanted -- is for a return on the investment. That's why I was for trading/letting DA go (would have been a great return on a small investment), not letting DA play for us ever again (because of the little return on a big investment in '08) and letting Quinn get his chance to play (only way to get any real return on big investment).
Here, I will type it really slow for you, so perhaps you can grasp the concept:
Quinn
was
a
1st
round
pick.
He
either
must
play
or
return
equal
value.
There? Is that simple enough for you?
And because "equal value" would be a 1st and 2nd (what we actually paid for him), which we are unlikely to get for him, I don't see how trading him helps us.
Unless he really is the worst college QB prospect of all time and no one knows it but you, Lum and ManKok.
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Some reasonable people have said, what Savage did with his first round pick a couple years back has no bearing on what the current management has to do... I tend to agree with them. There's no need to play or trade for equal value if the new management deems it so.
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I went to Oregon State and I think DA is better than most give him credit for. But, I do not think he is the long term answer in Cleveland. I am not sure BQ is either but I don't know. But, with that said I will take the Bet. If both QBs are on the roster and niether is traded before the first game I think DA will win the battle (not really but I want to take the bet) for starting QB. If BQ is the starter on game one you can pick a avatar for me, if he is not then you get a avatar that has something to do with DA owning BQ at every level that they have played in. Was higher rated coming out of High School, beat him in head to head competition in College and beat him out as starter of the Browns. Somethign along those lines, that will be fun.
Of course if either QB is traded then the bet is null and void.
beat him in head to head competition in College
This is hopelessly inaccurate. The Insight Bowl scoreboard did not say "Anderson vs. Quinn". Did it?
This is on par with saying "Scott Norwood lost the Superbowl". You're college educated and I'm assuming you know better.
I know this kind of posting makes some people tired.
But, there is a reason that NFL teams have been so successful with names like Parcells and Belichick at the helm.
Sometimes, even they found themselves having to deal with hopeless franchises that couldn't grasp the concept of "team".
Please forgive me. I'll get off my soap box now.
(Hey, these smileys are cute!) -
Some reasonable people have said, what Savage did with his first round pick a couple years back has no bearing on what the current management has to do... I tend to agree with them. There's no need to play or trade for equal value if the new management deems it so.
Some reasonable people have said, what Savage did with his first round pick a couple years back has no bearing on what the current management has to do... I tend to agree with them. There's no need to play or trade for equal value if the new management deems it so.
There is an argument to be made for the "clean sweep" philosophy but what's incontrovertible is that cutting your losses comes at a steep price.
What you seem not to understand is that regardless of who made the original decisions, they were still BAD DECISIONS if the ORGANIZATION is hurt by them.
So, like I said earlier, paying DA/not taking the picks was a BAD DECISION because it's STILL AFFECTING the organization, regardless what ManKok do with DA now.
Similarly, if Quinn is traded for less than was paid for him, that doesn't mean it's GOOD for the franchise. If we trade him for a 1st, we're still out that second and the ORGANIZATION has gained NOTHING.
So the point remains: if you trade BQ without playing him and get back for him less than was paid, that is an organizational LOSS, just like the picks we LOST by signing DA.
All in all, if BQ is traded for a 1st, we'd have lost 3 total picks because of Savage's decision to keep DA.
Can't see how that's a win for the team.
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What you don't get, is that there is a possibility that the current management feel the drafting of BQ wasn't necessarily a great decision, or the possibility that they think he's an OK QB, but they'll gain more by trading him than keeping him.
Just because the Browns paid a high price to get ANY player, not just BQ or DA, doesn't mean they have to get equal value on the original price to let a player go. Who cares about the picks they lost in the past?... I bet Lerner and the rest of the organization consider it water under the bridge, and if they feel trading a player today will make them a better team tomorrow, they'll do it no matter what that player cost in the past.
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What you don't get, is that there is a possibility that the current management feel the drafting of BQ wasn't necessarily a great decision, or the possibility that they think he's an OK QB, but they'll gain more by trading him than keeping him.
Just because the Browns paid a high price to get ANY player, not just BQ or DA, doesn't mean they have to get equal value on the original price to let a player go. Who cares about the picks they lost in the past?... I bet Lerner and the rest of the organization consider it water under the bridge, and if they feel trading a player today will make them a better team tomorrow, they'll do it no matter what that player cost in the past.
What you don't get, is that there is a possibility that the current management feel the drafting of BQ wasn't necessarily a great decision, or the possibility that they think he's an OK QB, but they'll gain more by trading him than keeping him.
Just because the Browns paid a high price to get ANY player, not just BQ or DA, doesn't mean they have to get equal value on the original price to let a player go. Who cares about the picks they lost in the past?... I bet Lerner and the rest of the organization consider it water under the bridge, and if they feel trading a player today will make them a better team tomorrow, they'll do it no matter what that player cost in the past.
For once D&S, I have to agree here. The current FO isn't go to be held hostage by what the previous FO did, and they shouldn't be. ManKok needs to field what they feel is the best team, and get best value for players they don't think fit.
IMO though, I don't think they are looking to trade Quinn, unless the offer is just too good to pass AND they are intent on getting Sanchez. Everything that's been said out of Berea, and that is extremely little, is that EVERYONE except JT and D'Qwell is tradeable, and they have listened to offers. No one has said they are actively shopping BQ, or DA, other than media "sources".
While I hate being in the dark as much as the next person, this offseason really has been fun so far.
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What you don't get, is that there is a possibility that the current management feel the drafting of BQ wasn't necessarily a great decision, or the possibility that they think he's an OK QB, but they'll gain more by trading him than keeping him.
Just because the Browns paid a high price to get ANY player, not just BQ or DA, doesn't mean they have to get equal value on the original price to let a player go. Who cares about the picks they lost in the past?... I bet Lerner and the rest of the organization consider it water under the bridge, and if they feel trading a player today will make them a better team tomorrow, they'll do it no matter what that player cost in the past.
What you don't get, is that there is a possibility that the current management feel the drafting of BQ wasn't necessarily a great decision, or the possibility that they think he's an OK QB, but they'll gain more by trading him than keeping him.
Just because the Browns paid a high price to get ANY player, not just BQ or DA, doesn't mean they have to get equal value on the original price to let a player go. Who cares about the picks they lost in the past?... I bet Lerner and the rest of the organization consider it water under the bridge, and if they feel trading a player today will make them a better team tomorrow, they'll do it no matter what that player cost in the past.
Hey, alright, now you're cooking! Spoken almost like a BROWNS fan. There's hope for you yet...
So, yeah, I do get it. And I agree with this post. Nicely done! (Insert thumbs up smiley here.)
Nice jousting with you. As always, produce a few less DA-centric posts and it's much more fun talking with you.
It is about moving forward with what's best for the team and organization NOW and I support any and all movements in that direction.
So, to get back to the original thread topic, while I believe ManKok when he says "no one is safe" and it's about improving the team, I can't imagine that Quinn is so poorly thought of by Mangini and Kokinis that they would take only one pick for him.
Once again, the reality is that BQ has neither succeeded nor failed as an NFL QB yet. Thus, his value is really still to be determined and the calculation that needs to be made by the Browns is whether they think he could possibly increase his value beyond whatever actual offer they have for him by playing him this year.
My opinion is that his potential remains high and though I doubt his NFL career ceiling is much higher than DA's, his floor certainly is higher. Which is why I think he'll be given a shot SOMEWHERE this year, and I still hope it's with us (unless someone goes nuts with the picks. Then it's buh-bye Brady and hello defense!)
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Mangini and the staff have watched every tape there is of both Quinn and Anderson. They've watched both in minicamp and Daboll is working with both daily in learning the offense. I think they're better suited to figuring out if either guy can win in this league than anyone here. I also think that Kokinis would be a fool not to listen to trade offers since the draft pick cupboard is bare. You people are far too harsh on Anderson which is equally as disconcerting as your love for Quinn. The guy throws 29 (29!) TDs one year and in the span of the next few games becomes a bum? If only life were as simply as these people would make it out to be.
I don't care what you have on your team in terms of vets and free agents, if you don't draft well you will either wind up a team full of aging question marks or in salary cap hell. You can't draft right without draft picks.
Lastly, I'd caution those of you Quinn lovers who are simply on the "homer bandwagon". I am guilty of this too with some of my hometown guys but at this level of football you MUST look at the roster dispassionately to make decisions. You can't cloud your judgment by giving guys "extra" shots or support them a little more than you normally would because he's from the area. Screw that. I think it's very unusual for a hometown kid to lead his hometown team to victory these days. Leave that for class reunions and fantasy leagues.
.
I am guilty of this too with some of my hometown guys but at this level of football you MUST look at the roster dispassionately to make decisions. .
Note to all OSU fans!
Seriously, no one is a bigger Buckeye fan than I am. But it amazes me that people can't seem to see players for what they are when it comes to the Buckeyes going into the NFL.
I was ona Buckeye Forum not long ago and there was a discussion concerning Jim Cordle and how great of an NFL lineman he was going to be because he can play three different positions on the line for the Buckeyes....He's been playing right tackle this year.
There is only one problem with that theory concerning Jim's NFL career...Cordell may not even be drafted. If he does I suspect it'll be a 6th or 7th rounder.
All I can do is shake my head at these people.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote! - "Ben Franklin"
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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