Best Reason for "Never Trump" I have Heard to Date...

Clevfan4life

Im shocked that republicans who dont like trump would even dream of voting for hillary. that makes no sense

OldBrownsFan

@clevfan4life said:
Im shocked that republicans who dont like trump would even dream of voting for hillary. that makes no sense

I agree with what Diehard said...they have given up on 2016 and counting on Clinton to be a disaster and focusing on 2020 race.

Clevfan4life

@oldbrownsfan said:

I agree with what Diehard said...they have given up on 2016 and counting on Clinton to be a disaster and focusing on 2020 race.

But why would they outrigjt vote for her? I understand not voting for trump but....

Tour2ma

@oldbrownsfan said:

You have activist judges who don't follow the constitution in their rulings. I just want judges who follow the constitution and not make law from the bench. Roe v Wade for example was a ruling that had no basis in our constitution and I have read from pro choice lawyers who openly admit that.

Settling controversies between States and a State and citizens of another was the role SCOTUS played in "settling" the abortion and same-sex marriage issues nationwide.

Well at least when states vote on these issues you have millions of citizens involved in making the decision instead of 9 unelected judges deciding for everyone.

Always thought the basis of Roe was the variability of state laws, but turns out it was not... the foundation for Roe's 7-2 decision was the 14th Amendment, the "personal liberty" amendment.

In a second case, Doe vs. Bolton, a contemporary case of Roe, a Georgia law was also found unconstitutional. In summary the Georgia law:

... permitted abortion only in cases of rape, severe fetal deformity, or the possibility of severe or fatal injury to the mother. Other restrictions included the requirement that the procedure be approved in writing by three physicians and by a three-member special committee that either (1) continued pregnancy would endanger the pregnant woman's life or "seriously and permanently" injure her health; (2) the fetus would "very likely be born with a grave, permanent and irremediable mental or physical defect"; or (3) the pregnancy resulted from rape or incest.^[1]^[2] In addition, only Georgia residents could receive abortions under this statutory scheme: non-residents could not have an abortion in Georgia under any circumstances.

OldBrownsFan

@clevfan4life said:
But why would they outrigjt vote for her? I understand not voting for trump but....

Republican In Name Only...RINO's

Tour2ma

@bbedward said:

It's on, but I can easily take that stance because Cleveland has the best there is.

California is pretty good too though.

Just revisited an old friend named Anchor Steam when I got "wined-out" in Napa last week... kinda the Rolling Rock of the West...

@clevfan4life said:
But why would they outrigjt vote for her? I understand not voting for trump but....

Many "establishment" Repub's are convinced a Trump term would be worse for the party than a HRC term. In part this is based upon their retention of control of the House where they can obstruct HRC with impunity.

Should Trump win it would likely fall upon the Senate Dems to obstruct his agenda with many Congressional Repub's quietly cheering in a cloak room before they condemn the "obstructionists" in front of the TV cameras... thus reducing their chances of being "primaried".

OldBrownsFan

I'm just happy to say today I am affiliated with no political party. How many of these politicians of either party put the interests of the country first over their own self interests? Not very many.

hoorta

@oldbrownsfan said:

I don't believe it is the social conservatives like myself who are abandoning Trump right now but the establishment wing of the GOP who want open borders to keep the cheap labor and are for TPP and NAFTA trade deals. They didn't get their candidate elected this time (Jeb Bush) and now they won't support the nominee who did win.

George Bush has been quiet but the recent letter signed by 50 of his former advisers claiming Trump to be unfit was just a dagger into Trump's back and a payback for some of the things Trump has said about Bush IMO.

.... And some of the things Trump said about every other Republican candidate in the primaries. He ran a scorched earth campaign there- (Cruz, Rubio, Fiorina, Kasich) and I hate to say it, but paybacks are hell Mr. Trump.

In regards to cutting taxes- can't do it without ballooning the National Debt. 45% of households already don't pay any federal income tax. Oh Hillary- time for the richest to "pay their fair share"? Well take that mantra and shove it Mrs. Clinton. The top 20% of income earners in the US pay 86% of income tax. The Dems would love it if they can shove the percentage of people paying no tax over 50%- they'd then have a vote-proof constituency on the Government dole.

I agree with SOME of Trump's policies, but a lot of them won't fly. Building that wall on our southern border is a fantasy in his mind that has zero chance in reality of ever happening.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24

hoorta

@clevfan4life said:
I'm shocked that republicans who don't like trump would even dream of voting for hillary. that makes no sense

I'd never vote for Hillary- but leaving the presidential box unchecked- or voting for Gary Johnson is effectively a vote for Hillary. I'm starting to get the feeling it won't matter. The only thing that can save Trump at this point is smoking Hillary in the debates- or another real incriminating WikiLeak.

OldBrownsFan

@hoorta said:

.... And some of the things Trump said about every other Republican candidate in the primaries. He ran a scorched earth campaign there- and I hate to say it, but paybacks are hell Mr. Trump.

Agree...personal attacks were about all Trump used on other republican candidates

In regards to cutting taxes- can't do it without ballooning the National Debt. 45% of households already don't pay any federal income tax. Oh Hillary- time for the richest to "pay their fair share"? Well take that mantra and shove it Mrs. Clinton. The top 20% of income earners in the US pay 86% of income tax. The Dems would love it if they can shove the percentage of people paying no tax over 50%- they have a vote-proof constituency on the Government dole.

We have had 8 years of the Obama economy and it has been anemic growth...lower taxes would stimulate the economy and be great for job creation but the democrats can never seem to learn that. One of the more poorer countries in Europe, Ireland has turned things around quickly to become on of the more prosperous and successful countries by changing and lowering tax policies that has attracted a lot of business.

I agree with SOME of Trump's policies, but a lot of them won't fly. Building that wall on our southern border is a fantasy in his mind that has zero chance in reality of ever happening.

Even if you like some of Trump's policies don't get too attached to them as he changes his mind frequently.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/45-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2016-02-24

Tour2ma

@oldbrownsfan said:
I'm just happy to say today I am affiliated with no political party. How many of these politicians of either party put the interests of the country first over their own self interests? Not very many.

Actually I'd say most... of both parties... not that they are allergic to feathering their own nests to some extent, but most of those even do so in ways they see as consistent with the interests of the country. Whether we agree or not is more likely based upon our ideology than the absolute good or harm of their action.

I believe the Blagojevich's of the world are fewer than you think.

@hoorta said:
The only thing that can save Trump at this point is smoking Hillary in the debates- or another real incriminating WikiLeak.

HRC will smoke him in the debates. She'll come with facts... him with a new, insult nickname...

As for wiki... "another" will be the first...

bbedward

@tour2ma said:

HRC will smoke him in the debates. She'll come with facts... him with a new, insult nickname...

As for wiki... "another" will be the first...

Doubt she'll smoke him - she doesn't do so good off-script, Trump will make her go off-script - unlike Sanders.

Presidential debates aren't often bastions of facts and information regardless, though.

Tour2ma

But she comes prepared...

LogicIsForSquares

If either of these clowns was worth a squirt of piss, they would be destroying their competition. We just have a clash of the unpalatable titans.

OldBrownsFan

@tour2ma said:

Actually I'd say most... of both parties... not that they are allergic to feathering their own nests to some extent, but most of those even do so in ways they see as consistent with the interests of the country. Whether we agree or not is more likely based upon our ideology than the absolute good or harm of their action.

I believe the Blagojevich's of the world are fewer than you think.
No way Tour. Politicians are a selfish lot who put their careers, and re-election over the greater interests of the country. For example even if it is conclusively proven school choice is the best option for the good of our children how many dems would oppose it because of putting the interests of the teachers union first? Most if not all. You know how this rolls.

Tour2ma

School Choice is a bad choice if you are looking to build consensus. Results are far from good once you go beyond anecdotal success stories and get into statistical analysis of student performance.

BTW... the decline in unions has been a major factor in the flattening of wage growth from the middle-class on down.

Recent estimates indicate the decline in unions accounts for as much as 20% to 30% of the rise in wage inequality.

http://fortune.com/2015/09/01/heres-the-real-reason-you-dont-make-enough-money/

OldBrownsFan

1. School choice improves academic outcomes and saves taxpayers money.

Despite some opponents’ claims, school choice does not seek to privatize public schools; rather, it seeks to open them up to competition from private schools by giving families the financial ability to attend such schools. Solid evidence suggests that attending private schools improves academic performance.

2. School choice reduces racial segregation and benefits the poor.

School choice has been shown to benefit minorities and the poor substantially. One Harvard study examined how a school choice program in New York affected college enrollment. According to the authors, “Using a voucher to attend private school increased the overall college enrollment rate among African Americans by 24 percent.” Additionally, the National Bureau of Economic Research found that among poor children, school choice increased secondary school completion rates by 15–20 percent.

3. School choice increases the quality of public schools.

Some opponents of school choice fear that it could lead to the financial starvation of public schools, thereby worsening their performance. However, of the 23 studies that examine how school choice affects academic outcomes in public schools, 22 find that choice improves outcomes. The empirical evidence confirms the theory: competition leads to superior results.

Conclusion

The evidence clearly demonstrates that school choice programs are desirable and ought to be pursued on a larger scale. While opponents may try to portray school choice programs as “pro-corporate education reform,” the reality is that these programs enable students, including the poorest kids, to achieve more than they could have in conventional public schools — and at a lower cost to taxpayers. It’s hard to understand how anyone could oppose a marketplace in education.

https://fee.org/articles/3-reasons-to-support-school-choice/

Clevfan4life

If trump does what he did in tje primary debates all she has to do is shut up and let hin shoot himself in the dick. That shit that worked in tje primaries will not bring in any new voters and might make independants who thought about not voting at all come off the sidelines in november for hillary.

Someone in the rep party really needs to get to him before the debates and expkain to him his fanboys are in the bag and he doesntbneed to pander to them one ounce dueing the debates. If he does something like bring up hillarys looks like he did with fiorina.....just quit so we can sll be spared the continuous circus.

DieHardBrownsFan

OldBrownsFan

The democrat playbook against Trump is no secret. Since there is nothing they can do to make people like Clinton any better the strategy is to make Trump un-electable, showing him to be unfit and not have the temperament to be president. Trump has been helping the dems make that argument. I heard a dem strategist say they expect to spend about 2 billion this election to drive the point home to voters.

The dems may already be there and if that is the case it is check mate for Clinton as there will be nothing Trump can say or do that will work against Clinton if the voters have made up their minds he is not fit to be president.