Where to start.....
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These guys that have been Browns fans for 20, 30, 40, 50 years ... They don't have the patience for another reboot, and I understand that, but it's not cool for an outsider to jump in on their frustration and join the doom and gloom bandwagon and rub the rest of our faces in it.Good night Z. Catch you tomorrow.
PS-I'll think about what you have said, minus the expletives. I can see for you I have hit a deep nerve. My apologies.
You came here because of Johnny, and he was a total tool who set the franchise back yet another two years. Now we are trying something new, and it looks ugly at this early moment, but I'd like to think it is a true rebirth and we don't need you shitting on it in preseason of the first year.
That said, I feel bad now that you apologized, because I called you a Dicklicker or something again in the other thread.
Z
Zombo said:
These guys that have been Browns fans for 20, 30, 40, 50 years ... They don't have the patience for another reboot, and I understand that, but it's not cool for an outsider to jump in on their frustration and join the doom and gloom bandwagon and rub the rest of our faces in it.
You came here because of Johnny, and he was a total tool who set the franchise back yet another two years. Now we are trying something new, and it looks ugly at this early moment, but I'd like to think it is a true rebirth and we don't need you shitting on it in preseason of the first year.
That said, I feel bad now that you apologized, because I called you a Dicklicker or something again in the other thread.
Z
An optimist would say look how many guys in here almost made it to September? We're only burying football in 2016 two weeks before the regular season starts. Pretty interesting considering how many series we've actually seen our starting WR Corps together out there. Pryor has never started a game at WR so we're going to see him making a rookie-like mistake like blocking downfield before our WR catches a pass. That was a 9 yard gain some people already rooting for their predictions about Coleman don't have to count. Phew!!!!!! Warm fuzzies all around on that one. That should have looked way more polished with all their extensive game experience together out there. Guys, don't let this keep you away from the NFL channel updates on the Barbie Doll QBs in NE on which pretty passer threw the prettier passes today.
It's gotta be really tough to predict a team coming off 3 wins with a regime change is going to struggle with all the talent spoiling our ass while our #1 WR remains on suspension for 32 of our next 37 games after we went 4-12 in 2013. We've come so far with all our football blessings. We actually have fans smart enough to predict we're going to experience some tough sledding with the awareness of how many of us actually need to be told this umpteen times a week. Nobody likes losing but why are some of the guys that tell us we're going to suck all the time acting like they are the most surprised/disappointed in what they're seeing in the first 3 preseason games?
The unknown to some of us, moving forward, is how soon a lot of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd year guys emerge and create chemistry with the older vets like Joe Haden, Joe Thomas, John Greco and Josh Gordon.
If the process is more painful than getting teeth pulled - time for a hobby change that isn't so painful. Why put yourself through such misery? Some of you guys crying about all this being way too unacceptable to repeat will continue to pay for DirecTV or go to sports bars weekly (dropping $30 a visit), or buy game tickets and spend quite a bit of time in here - so are you REALLY quitting on this team? Uh-oh, your actions say Hell no! How about remembering that instead of giving advice that you're the only ones smart enough to quit on this franchise? We're starting to sound like a sorority house in here with some of that crap.
Mud made a lot of good points to me but in the process of Pettine's War of the Roses divorce with Farmer spilling over to the field - some very key veterans like Joe Haden and others gave up on Pettine and/or Farmer. The oft-injured Tashaun Gipson showed up for part of the season to give us his version of phuck it. When you lose some of the leaders, you flat line with the rest of the team. It is what it is with today's players. Nobody said this gig was fair since 1999. The first year, I thought Pettine did a nice job of connecting with our team leaders and coaching through them. Consequently, Pettine had a good first year just like Butch Davis did when he reversed 5-27 football with 7-9 (2 losses were in OT) in the 1st year and playoffs in his 2nd year. Aren't both classic examples of why you don't make all your conclusions on a HC in his first season? TODAY, many of us are doing this as early as the 3rd preseason game. Why doesn't the HC have tenure in Detroit for going undefeated in the preseason the same year he went 0-16 in the regular season with our adorable preseason conclusion criteria all of a sudden? And why wasn't Marv Levy fired for all his winless preseasons while Buffalo went to 4 consecutive Superbowls? What were they thinking?
Think of how terrific it will be for this franchise moving forward if the most sought after Head Coaching candidate in 2016 that wanted this gig gets fired before any of our draft volume of 14 has had a legit shot at developing on a team coming off 3 wins. They're really going to line up to sign up for this gig once that happens. That projects another exciting interview circuit of Ken Whisenhunt and Chip Kelly while the best candidates prefer rosters with more talent and experience.
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well Cal....we were watching different games then....
The game I watched had Tampa Bay scoring on their first 5 drives and racking up 250 yds in the first half(against our ones)....thats right.....250 yards.....NOTHING was "shut down".....cept our D.....
THEN.....the 2nd and 3rd stringers came in for the second half and played better......but that first team?.....whoa, they were bad...
New linebackers?.....what new linebackers?......Thomas?.....cause he aint doing too much so far.....Orchard(a guy I have big hopes for) has been invisible over 3 games (2 tackles and an assist).....Kruger?...hahahaha....(zero tackles and 4 assist)......and Kirksey, who IS playing well.....the one and only....
And, based upon the Mingo trade, the FO is holding hope for Schobert, who has shown very little and appears to be easily neutralized......4 tackles in his first game, then only 2 tackles in 2 weeks.......
So.....not seeing ANY good linebacker play either.....less Kirksey(and Alexander).....
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Zombo said:
Agreed on Ag, Bunghole, and your right to rag ... you've earned it. So has Hoorta. It's just not for me. I will blow up after a regular season loss, but somehow I still have enough patience to support this new venture from the get-go. I figure I'm this much invested ... why not hope these guys can actually turn it around? It will be a blast if they do .. I'm all in from the start with them.
I think Jimmy is going to let the football guys do their thing with a long rope this time. I think he has learned the impatient meddling doesn't work. I think the losing has embarrassed him and he seems sincere about letting these guys get it right.
Zombo
Im with ya...listen, I had an opportunity to do some fun stuff Friday night, but passed because I had to watch the Browns....NEVER will I miss a game...never....and I was thinking we'd win(even though my sensible side said no way)....hey, I ALWAYS think we'll win.....until we lose....
And, much as Im not a fan of our new FO choices or their first draft, I do want them to succeed....and will wait(cause I have no other choice) to see how it pans out.....and like I did with Pettine and Farmer, I will pray they stay for a while, cause Im done with resets...
Ive been bitching about this reset since BEFORE it happened.....and NOT because I liked Pettine and Farmer....but because I wanted to see the plan through....just once.....so, yeah, that got me mad.....Ive started and built a couple businesses, plus purchased a third to turn around....and what I do know well is that you need a quality plan and you need to see it through....even when you have set backs....tweaking is usually better than wiping the slate clean....
So....I will cheer and pray.....I will wait to see what Chachi and his boys do.....BUT, dammit, Im gonna call it like I see it and let Chachi know when I dont like the choices.....and, for me, it doesnt take 5 games, or a season or a year to assess what is happening......its a fluid thing and, no matter if it's preseason or not, shitty play and shitty players stand out.....
There are 32 teams playing preseason football.....32 teams assessing 2nd and 3rd team players.....32 teams not game planning......32 teams using vanilla schemes.....32 teams not showing their best cards......and ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, so far we are 32nd on Defense and 3ist on offense......THAT is a FACT jack...(Jack?.....another guy we shoulda drafted )
Im with ya...listen, I had an opportunity to do some fun stuff Friday night, but passed because I had to watch the Browns....NEVER will I miss a game...never....and I was thinking we'd win(even though my sensible side said no way)....hey, I ALWAYS think we'll win.....until we lose....
Thatta boy! I knew we didn't lose you!
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well Cal....we were watching different games then....
The game I watched had Tampa Bay scoring on their first 5 drives and racking up 250 yds in the first half(against our ones)....thats right.....250 yards.....NOTHING was "shut down".....cept our D.....
THEN.....the 2nd and 3rd stringers came in for the second half and played better......but that first team?.....whoa, they were bad...
New linebackers?.....what new linebackers?......Thomas?.....cause he aint doing too much so far.....Orchard(a guy I have big hopes for) has been invisible over 3 games (2 tackles and an assist).....Kruger?...hahahaha....(zero tackles and 4 assist)......and Kirksey, who IS playing well.....the one and only....
And, based upon the Mingo trade, the FO is holding hope for Schobert, who has shown very little and appears to be easily neutralized......4 tackles in his first game, then only 2 tackles in 2 weeks.......
So.....not seeing ANY good linebacker play either.....less Kirksey(and Alexander).....
Kruger?...hahahaha....(zero tackles and 4 assist).......
Kruger has 4 assists? Maybe I've had a bigger beer buzz than I thought because my inventory was only giving Casper the Friendly Ghost 2. Now that they're testing for HGH, I think we're getting the non-fiction version of what he is on an NFL gridiron. Not that he ever really ever impressed everyone against the run or with edge containment.
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go back and watch. Kruger was being held badly, and no call. Again and again.
I suspect the wimpy refs aren't in shape, and want to let a lot of crap slide til the start
of the regular season - makes the games shorter.
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go back and watch. Kruger was being held badly, and no call. Again and again.
I suspect the wimpy refs aren't in shape, and want to let a lot of crap slide til the start
of the regular season - makes the games shorter.
go back and watch. Kruger was being held badly, and no call. Again and again.
I suspect the wimpy refs aren't in shape, and want to let a lot of crap slide til the start
of the regular season - makes the games shorter.
No need Calsies. Jerry Sherk got held all the time and made the Pro Bowl in spite of it.
If you're the real thing there's no such thing as "yeah but I got held." Wattshisname gets held almost every play and he sees way more double teams than Kruger commands.
When the OT was holding the back of Kruger's jersey behind the shoulder pads, did you notice Kruger was standing straight up with his base/legs already forfeited while the OT maintained a lower pad height? There's your game over with Kruger. If he doesn't know this by now, we don't need to keep the record skipping with Wiley Coyote on the edge.
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Z- don't take out your frustrations on Ag. Some of us are reading the tea leaves already. Like you think I'm happy about the prospect of driving 2,000 miles and sitting in 95 degree weather just to see a likely embarrassment of major proportions? This is being done out of friendship, not because I think the Browns have a snowball's chance in hell of actually wining that game.
Dammit, take off the homer glasses for a minute- and see what me and Mud are seeing- and for me, that was 25 minutes of a High School team (in full dress rehearsal) getting killed by a legit NFL franchise. BTW- I'd rather have Ag around, than having Ghoolie spout off how f**cking right he is- yet again.
I'm as Poed as anyone about what I've seen so far. But please don't go f**king with guys who know football. That means Ag and guys You've screwed with like 77Bengals and Vag. They add to the board, and turning their screen names into jokes isn't cool IMHO. Hey- I can find way better things to do with my time than put up with juvenile BS like that- and I'm not kidding.
1. First of all, you might wanna quit being so goddamn upset about a team that has done a hard reboot and is struggling in the preseason like anyone who "knows football" would surmise that they would
2. The homer glasses don't come off ... again ... you have been reading my posts for 20 years, have I ever changed on that regard? NO? Then why waste your time with it? You give your "cranky old man" take on the team and I'll give my "passionate optimist" take, and I think we can coexist.
3. Ya, AGs a good guy and a good poster. But if you come into my home and laugh at my team and tell me they are going to "shit the bed" you are going to meet angry Zombo. Vag ... he knows the deal. He's a Steeler fan. He has no rights. This is a Browns Board owned by Browns fans, run by Browns fans, for the enjoyment of Browns fans, Fans of other teams WILL NOT come in here and talk down to us. Not on my watch. If I stroke out you can take over and turn this place into sunshine and lollipops and everyone can hold hands and sing Kumbaya and respect each other regardless of how much they shit on the Browns. 77Bengals ... he's a fucking Retard. He's very fucking patronizing ... fuck him. If these guys come in here and want to talk shit ... they will get a name change. That's their sentence. And I don't care if you think it's juvenile ... it's not changing.
Zombo
Zombo said:
77Bengals ... he's a fucking Retard. He's very fucking patronizing ... fuck him. If these guys come in here and want to talk shit ... they will get a name change. That's their sentence. And I don't care if you think it's juvenile ... it's not changing.
Zombo
Oh really?
I don't recollect me "talking shit" much, and I can talk shit cause I could punk you all day long, lol
Unlike that little patronizing faggot, I pretty much stay out of threads dealing with the Browns, respecting the obvious fact that this is your board.
I rarely talk shit, I talk truth and you don't like hearing it. That's why I get the name change.
Isn't that right Zombo? Be honest now.
I've lived most my life near Cleveland, and most everyone I know or have worked with is a browns fan, and we get along just fine.
So "Why cant we just get along" here? lol
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You guys and gals sound like a bunch of whining fans, you'd think the BROWNS haven't won anything since LBJ was president and the preseason looks like crap so far.
.....oh wait that's largely true. Geezzz is this like the movie MAJOR LEAGUE only with the BROWNS in their place and nobody goes to the games anymore.
All we need now is a BROWNS version of Harry Doyle.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well I did like that movie plus Cleveland is a football town and probably always will be so we carry on.
And some of those Indians games with a few thousand fans we kind of fun actually plus after the movie the Indians started winning again. ...... yeah we need another movie in Cleveland about the BROWNS this time ! Hasn't been one since the Fortune Cookie in the 1960s right? (Forget the War Room it kinda stunk anyway.)
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Fuck the Steelers I wish they would all die in a plane crash.
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If I take any solace from this regime's approach, it is that despite 14 picks they did not try to fix everything in one off-season. Clearly this draft was dedicated to fixing the WR position.
That is different.
Maybe next year it's LBs...
As for "foundation"... TBD. Anything more optimistic is rose-colored thinking... not as rose-colored as those that thought Dwayne Bowe was the answer to our WR size deficit (and I can find you, if I need to), but still rose-colored.
And last I checked the last thing done before a foundation pour was leveling with sand...
... packed and framed to prevent shifting, but sand."When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
If I take any solace from this regime's approach, it is that despite 14 picks they did not try to fix everything in one off-season. Clearly this draft was dedicated to fixing the WR position.
That is different.
Maybe next year it's LBs...
As for "foundation"... TBD. Anything more optimistic is rose-colored thinking... not as rose-colored as those that thought Dwayne Bowe was the answer to our WR size deficit (and I can find you, if I need to), but still rose-colored.
And last I checked the last thing done before a foundation pour was leveling with sand...
... packed and framed to prevent shifting, but sand.If I take any solace from this regime's approach, it is that despite 14 picks they did not try to fix everything in one off-season. Clearly this draft was dedicated to fixing the WR position.
That is different.
Maybe next year it's LBs...
As for "foundation"... TBD. Anything more optimistic is rose-colored thinking... not as rose-colored as those that thought Dwayne Bowe was the answer to our WR size deficit (and I can find you, if I need to), but still rose-colored.
And last I checked the last thing done before a foundation pour was leveling with sand...
... packed and framed to prevent shifting, but sand.Well said.
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Zombo said:
77Bengals ... he's a fucking Retard. He's very fucking patronizing ... fuck him. If these guys come in here and want to talk shit ... they will get a name change. That's their sentence. And I don't care if you think it's juvenile ... it's not changing.
Zombo
Oh really?
I don't recollect me "talking shit" much, and I can talk shit cause I could punk you all day long, lol
Unlike that little patronizing faggot, I pretty much stay out of threads dealing with the Browns, respecting the obvious fact that this is your board.
I rarely talk shit, I talk truth and you don't like hearing it. That's why I get the name change.
Isn't that right Zombo? Be honest now.
I've lived most my life near Cleveland, and most everyone I know or have worked with is a browns fan, and we get along just fine.
So "Why cant we just get along" here? lol
Oh really?
I don't recollect me "talking shit" much, and I can talk shit cause I could punk you all day long, lol
Unlike that little patronizing faggot, I pretty much stay out of threads dealing with the Browns, respecting the obvious fact that this is your board.
I rarely talk shit, I talk truth and you don't like hearing it. That's why I get the name change.
Isn't that right Zombo? Be honest now.
I've lived most my life near Cleveland, and most everyone I know or have worked with is a browns fan, and we get along just fine.
So "Why cant we just get along" here? lol
Shut up, asshole.
Z
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go back and watch. Kruger was being held badly, and no call. Again and again.
I suspect the wimpy refs aren't in shape, and want to let a lot of crap slide til the start
of the regular season - makes the games shorter.
No need Calsies. Jerry Sherk got held all the time and made the Pro Bowl in spite of it.
If you're the real thing there's no such thing as "yeah but I got held." Wattshisname gets held almost every play and he sees way more double teams than Kruger commands.
When the OT was holding the back of Kruger's jersey behind the shoulder pads, did you notice Kruger was standing straight up with his base/legs already forfeited while the OT maintained a lower pad height? There's your game over with Kruger. If he doesn't know this by now, we don't need to keep the record skipping with Wiley Coyote on the edge.
No need Calsies. Jerry Sherk got held all the time and made the Pro Bowl in spite of it.
If you're the real thing there's no such thing as "yeah but I got held." Wattshisname gets held almost every play and he sees way more double teams than Kruger commands.
When the OT was holding the back of Kruger's jersey behind the shoulder pads, did you notice Kruger was standing straight up with his base/legs already forfeited while the OT maintained a lower pad height? There's your game over with Kruger. If he doesn't know this by now, we don't need to keep the record skipping with Wiley Coyote on the edge.
hahasies - I figured you might notice more than I did. But Jerry Sherk and Wattsamattay University graduate
J.J. "rhino" Wattsies played for good defenses. Not all players are the same.
Speaking of Jerry Sherk, one of my favorite Browns players of all time...this is a great article about Sherk and Dieken, etc,
and the violence of the game.....
http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2013/10/former_cleveland_browns_doug_d.html
Kruger had a great year in 2014. Back in the day, he was a lb with the ratbirds, bulked up, and played poorly in
their 3-4. To compare him to Jerry Sherk back in the day, and J.J. Wattsamatta is pretty funny.
He may have lost a step...or not. We'll find out this season. But he had his armed locked up badly, with no
referee calling it. You go back and watch, dangit. Anyways, Kruger says they are making mistakes, but
they just need to work those out. It's refreshing to hear so many Browns players think so highly of
their coaches. That right there is a step in a winning direction.
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btw, J.J. Watt - herniated disc - might not be ready for the regular season...
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well Cal....we were watching different games then....
The game I watched had Tampa Bay scoring on their first 5 drives and racking up 250 yds in the first half(against our ones)....thats right.....250 yards.....NOTHING was "shut down".....cept our D.....
THEN.....the 2nd and 3rd stringers came in for the second half and played better......but that first team?.....whoa, they were bad...
New linebackers?.....what new linebackers?......Thomas?.....cause he aint doing too much so far.....Orchard(a guy I have big hopes for) has been invisible over 3 games (2 tackles and an assist).....Kruger?...hahahaha....(zero tackles and 4 assist)......and Kirksey, who IS playing well.....the one and only....
And, based upon the Mingo trade, the FO is holding hope for Schobert, who has shown very little and appears to be easily neutralized......4 tackles in his first game, then only 2 tackles in 2 weeks.......
So.....not seeing ANY good linebacker play either.....less Kirksey(and Alexander).....
well Cal....we were watching different games then....
The game I watched had Tampa Bay scoring on their first 5 drives and racking up 250 yds in the first half(against our ones)....thats right.....250 yards.....NOTHING was "shut down".....cept our D.....
THEN.....the 2nd and 3rd stringers came in for the second half and played better......but that first team?.....whoa, they were bad...
New linebackers?.....what new linebackers?......Thomas?.....cause he aint doing too much so far.....Orchard(a guy I have big hopes for) has been invisible over 3 games (2 tackles and an assist).....Kruger?...hahahaha....(zero tackles and 4 assist)......and Kirksey, who IS playing well.....the one and only....
And, based upon the Mingo trade, the FO is holding hope for Schobert, who has shown very little and appears to be easily neutralized......4 tackles in his first game, then only 2 tackles in 2 weeks.......
So.....not seeing ANY good linebacker play either.....less Kirksey(and Alexander).....
Tank Carder maybe in his best TCamp Mud, with Kirksey. Tank played well at GB. We will need all the surprises than Cracker Jacks on D. Scooby & Alexander may decide next game, Who Sticks? Orch missed big on a score at TB..
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Does anybody realize that our first 6 picks from last year are starting this year?
I know the team sucks....so some wouldnt be elsewhere(Erving? Cooper?)....but we ALL still have high hopes and good expectations for Cooper. Orchard, Campbell, Shelton & Duke....right?
And Crow, Bitonio and Kirksey are developing into some pretty damn good players....right?.....
So....thats a lot of starters for just 2 "Browns" drafts.....
Does anybody realize that our first 6 picks from last year are starting this year?
I know the team sucks....so some wouldnt be elsewhere(Erving? Cooper?)....but we ALL still have high hopes and good expectations for Cooper. Orchard, Campbell, Shelton & Duke....right?
And Crow, Bitonio and Kirksey are developing into some pretty damn good players....right?.....
So....thats a lot of starters for just 2 "Browns" drafts.....
Mud,one of the worst things about getting into my 50s is I wear old man glasses when I gots to read; and I just don't have the short term memory when I gots to remember things as recently as the 2014 and 2015 drafts. The good news is your buddy Flugel knows he gots to Google so here's our 2014 and 2015 drafts:
Picks from 2015 NFL Draft(* = Junior; ** = Sophomore; *** = Freshman)
1 12 Danny Shelton DT Washington 6' 2" 340 1 19 Cameron Erving OT Florida State 6' 5" 315 2 51 Nate Orchard DE Utah 6' 3" 250 3 77 Duke Johnson* RB Miami 5' 9" 205 3 96 Xavier Cooper* DT Washington State 6' 4" 300 4 115 Ibraheim Campbell S Northwestern 5' 10" 210 4 123 Vince Mayle WR Washington State 6' 2" 220 6 189 Charles Gaines* CB Louisville 5' 10" 180 6 195 Malcolm Johnson TE Mississippi State 6' 2" 231 6 198 Randall Telfer TE USC 6' 4" 250 7 219 Hayes Pullard OLB USC 6' 0" 235 7 241 Ifo Ekpre-Olomu CB Oregon 5' 9" 195
Picks from 2014 NFL Draft (* = Junior; ** = Sophomore; *** = Freshman)1 8 Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State 6' 0" 202 1 22 Johnny Manziel** QB Texas A&M 6' 0" 207 2 35 Joel Bitonio OT Nevada 6' 4" 315 3 71 Christian Kirksey ILB Iowa 6' 2" 233 3 94 Terrance West* RB Towson 5' 9" 225 4 127 Pierre Desir CB Lindenwood University 6' 1" 191If Shelton and Erving can consistently be average in 2016 - it's quite an improvement from both first rounders. It sounds like a lot of us were excited about Orchard pre and post draft and when he finally got enough reps to where we could evaluate his performance - we were not disappointed with how he closed the 2015 season.
Duke Johnson was very exciting and we haven't seen a tremendous amount of him in this pre-season that everyone can't wait to make conclusions from.
Before I get to the rest here's something to keep in mind. When we used to be good in the 80s we'd start quality guys like Cody Riesen from round 7, Doug Dieken was in round 6 in the 70s still starting well into the 80s, Mike Baab was from round 4, Paul Farren who started at 4 different positions in round 12, Brian Brennan in round 4, Reggie Langhorne in round 7, Felix Wright undrafted, Earnest Byner in round 10, Brian Sipe in round 13 (the only MVP we've had at QB in the last 40-50 years), Thane Gash round 7, Herman Fontenot undrafted. Even when we went to the playoffs in the 90s we had undrafted LT Tony (T-Bone) Jones starting and undrafted RT Orlando Brown starting games during the stretch our 11 win team ran through fronts like Philly and Dallas.
Anyway, these are the 2015 guys Farmer looked to from round 3 to the end of the 2015 draft: Cooper, Campbell, Mayle (gone), Gaines, Malc Johnson, Telfer, Pullard (gone), Ekpre-Olomu (gone). Seems like a lot of wishful thinking and bare cupboards beneficiaries if we're being honest. Cooper flashes once in a while but I thought he'd be better. Maybe getting more reps prods that along some. We'll see.
In 2014, what competent GM with Khalil Mack on his door step - doesn't find out about the most recent work ethic of Justin Gilbert? Farmer didn't know what either guy projected so here we are wondering why we're stuck on pause with Wiley Coyote Kruger on 1 edge of our 34 always losing contain while never tackling anyone or sacking QBs. He can even drop off into coverage without whining about what he signed up for. If I'm the owner of this franchise, I gotta ask "you mean to tell me you didn't have the first clue of what Mack is capable of?"
Then, we get to the Johnny Manziel pick from our front office. As fans, we can mess this projection up. As a well paid NFL GM, you have to know there's red flags all the rest of the NFL is seeing but you and at least question why. The irony of a gotta have LBer like Mack and a QB that needs to be researched thoroughly for character/red flags actually showed up in the movie Draft Day about how the Cleveland Browns need to change fortunes at the draft. It was like Heaven above giving Ray Farmer the signs that divine intervention finally wants to help this franchise (providing this front office was awake and doing what they were supposed to be doing). The ego of Ray Farmer said "I got your signs right here so tell St Peter to salt my Peter."
Love Bitonio in spite of his soph slump d/t a former QB coach suddenly in charge of implementing blocking schemes intertwining ZBS with the blocking schemes Oakland used despite being advised the ZBS doesn't work well if it's part timed. I like Kirksey a lot too. However, the last coaching staff gave up on Terrence West and Pierre Desir feeling like they were justified in doing so.1 is gone while the other is lucky we have bare cupboards IMO. Crow was a great find in the land of the undrafted as was K'Wuan Williams (despite his lack of durability). Taylor Gabriel looks like a hard working kid that's hard to root against but 1 TD in 2 regular seasons tells me we should choose between him and our other midget (Hawkins) for the little men without TDs role in our WR Corps/offense. After that bubble screen in St Louis last year - he looked like he had Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome the rest of the season hearing footsteps and dropping passes way more frequently. We haven't really used him much in our return game and he offers us no ability to cover punts or kickoffs. He's right where you'd expect him to be hoping the worst WR Corps from 2015 still has room before it's CFL time on wider fields.
Every time I see opponents liking their chops to bullseye Gilbert and enjoy Kruger - I think of the Khalil Mack that Ray Farmer wasn't thinking of at all. The guy was on the door step of a team that has sucked forever at rushing the passer and Farmer gave that a Kung Fu kick to the very thankful Oakland Raiders. That's an epic screw up. Farmer doesn't just suck - he swallows!
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I have been a long time football fan having started out watching the Browns on the old black and white television with my dad back in the 60's. After coming to the Browns forum I realized there are some people who post here who really know the game and the x' and o's, the drafts, the front office and intricate details. So I won't argue any points on details but just generally speaking aren't we being way too pessimistic about the new restart? Three games into the pre season seems awful early to throw in the towel. You need to give it some time. I know we have had lots of time to improve the club since 99 and we haven't come close to getting the job done but you cannot lay all that on the new people who are just now trying to rebuild the club.
I have been a long time football fan having started out watching the Browns on the old black and white television with my dad back in the 60's. After coming to the Browns forum I realized there are some people who post here who really know the game and the x' and o's, the drafts, the front office and intricate details. So I won't argue any points on details but just generally speaking aren't we being way too pessimistic about the new restart? Three games into the pre season seems awful early to throw in the towel. You need to give it some time. I know we have had lots of time to improve the club since 99 and we haven't come close to getting the job done but you cannot lay all that on the new people who are just now trying to rebuild the club.
OBF- I'm not throwing in the towel- but me and Mud are calling like we see it. Right now, that Browns are a total disaster, and they're going to need to improve drastically if they want to have some hope of winning a game. With the starters in- we plain got killed. If Griffin is going to be the savior, well- the blocking has to improve 100% or he's not going to last more than a couple of games before he heads to permanent IR with another blown out knee.
And, much as Im not a fan of our new FO choices or their first draft, I do want them to succeed....and will wait(cause I have no other choice) to see how it pans out.....and like I did with Pettine and Farmer, I will pray they stay for a while, cause Im done with resets...
So....I will cheer and pray.....I will wait to see what Chachi and his boys do.....BUT, dammit, Im gonna call it like I see it and let Chachi know when I dont like the choices.....and, for me, it doesnt take 5 games, or a season or a year to assess what is happening......its a fluid thing and, no matter if it's preseason or not, shitty play and shitty players stand out.....
There are 32 teams playing preseason football.....32 teams assessing 2nd and 3rd team players.....32 teams not game planning......32 teams using vanilla schemes.....32 teams not showing their best cards......and ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, so far we are 32nd on Defense and 3ist on offense......THAT is a FACT jack...(Jack?.....another guy we shoulda drafted )
So Z- If you want to buy into the latest regime change, fine. All my optimism got drained out around two back. Young team with room to grow? Maybe. A team that currently looks as inept as the Lions team that went 0-16? Yep.
So give me some reason to believe that Sashi and DePodesta actually know what they're doing before I get on the Sunshine train.
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who didn't bust on the JF fans when they first got here? i spent plenty of time typing pages of hate their way out of some stoopid rhyme or reason. really did kinda hope that would have worked out even though i had/have no like for the kid except as a human being. meanwhile these guys are aces. except for one fan who is long been forgotten who i won't mention his name....good things came out of the aggie fanbase and would love to hang with anyone of them.
nobody here wants to be 'right' when shit doesn't work with these players and coaches. think it's easy being the grump who lives in the alley with big furry mitts always finding something to bitch about? just seen it too many times and i'll call it out whether it be right or wrong.
saw holmgren as a franchise killer when he came in and IMHO i see hue standing in the shadows behind that fuckin fat fuck. nothing so far to prove me right or wrong. hue seems like a nice guy. just don't get all the hooplah and the band marchin down the street in his honor already. mediocre HC in OAK. coached QBs, not entire teams previous to that. all afc north guys? palmer. nothing. dalton. nothing. flacco. nothing.
why do we have to go after a guy to be coach with no freakin championship rings? as axe has said. hire polian. or hire mike wolf. proven. spend the money and get gruden or parcells or cowher out of retirement and on the sidelines HERE.
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and btw, for all the QB whispering this guy has supposed to have done, why can't he whisper: "don't throw a pick 6"?
guess he missed that one or he's not that good cuz each and every one of these guys he's 'whispered' to is the ultimate lose the game in the 4th with a killer interception.
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