just go to a 4-3 ffs
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I dont care anymore either about 4-3 vs 3-4. U run what u've got the talent for period end of discussion. I dont see any identity whatsoever when we're in a 3-4. Our edges routinely get routed from just one blocker. I saw ogbah and nassib make sone mistakes with pad angles when they tried to set thevedge and had to deal with more than one guy. But at least they have the ability right now to collapse the pocket, the edge protect will come when they get stronger.
I just see a better rotation at DE than i see at the 3-4 olb'er position. I also see llb'ers that csn do both but seem like they're better fit for the 4-3.
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I dont care anymore either about 4-3 vs 3-4. U run what u've got the talent for period end of discussion. I dont see any identity whatsoever when we're in a 3-4. Our edges routinely get routed from just one blocker. I saw ogbah and nassib make sone mistakes with pad angles when they tried to set thevedge and had to deal with more than one guy. But at least they have the ability right now to collapse the pocket, the edge protect will come when they get stronger.
I just see a better rotation at DE than i see at the 3-4 olb'er position. I also see llb'ers that csn do both but seem like they're better fit for the 4-3.
I dont care anymore either about 4-3 vs 3-4. U run what u've got the talent for period end of discussion. I dont see any identity whatsoever when we're in a 3-4. Our edges routinely get routed from just one blocker. I saw ogbah and nassib make sone mistakes with pad angles when they tried to set thevedge and had to deal with more than one guy. But at least they have the ability right now to collapse the pocket, the edge protect will come when they get stronger.
I just see a better rotation at DE than i see at the 3-4 olb'er position. I also see llb'ers that csn do both but seem like they're better fit for the 4-3.
Precisely!
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Here's the thing. The differences in personnel between the schemes are really only incredibly different at the backers. Beyond that the lineman are still very similar. Except the Nose might be a bit of a bigger guy asked to two gap on occasion.
You don't have an issue with the 34 itself. You have an issue with your pass rushers and your gap assignments.
Those same problems will transcend scheme.
Can't rush the passer now? You won't consistently doing it the other way either. Can't stop the run? Same thing.
Here's the thing. The differences in personnel between the schemes are really only incredibly different at the backers. Beyond that the lineman are still very similar. Except the Nose might be a bit of a bigger guy asked to two gap on occasion.
You don't have an issue with the 34 itself. You have an issue with your pass rushers and your gap assignments.
Those same problems will transcend scheme.
Can't rush the passer now? You won't consistently doing it the other way either. Can't stop the run? Same thing.
Not sure, tia...
Only through the 1st QTR of the Bears preseason game, but it seems to me we play with a different attitude in 4-3. Could be as simple as our rook "DEs'" comfort level with being in a 3-point, but that ain't nothing.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Based on what we saw in the preseason, I think Horton is going to mix it up with 4 man fronts. At some point Ogbah and Nassib need to be on the field at the same time. All the time.
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Based on what we saw in the preseason, I think Horton is going to mix it up with 4 man fronts. At some point Ogbah and Nassib need to be on the field at the same time. All the time.
Based on what we saw in the preseason, I think Horton is going to mix it up with 4 man fronts. At some point Ogbah and Nassib need to be on the field at the same time. All the time.
Agreed! Plus, the last time Horton was here and we had Ahtyba Rubin and Phil Taylor slow footin their outside gap integrity out of a 5 technique 2 gap role while opponents seemed to turn the corner on us with ease. Our depth chart currently shows Hughes and Paea as the DE/5 Techniques which doesn't expedite our pass rush while it doesn't exactly promise us improvement over Hughes and Taylor. The difference this time around is we don't have as many injuries on the d-line forcing the desperate move to put the big guys in quick sand. In fairness, Horton did say he wanted to use hybrid fronts the first time he was here. Des Bryant is a good 5 technique so his absence makes that front even less intriguing. If opposing OCs see 3 chubby mannequins in a 3 point, we're looking at burnt toast in the secondary or the equivalent of BINGO FREE SPACE against the sweeps.
The good 3-4 defenses I've seen over the years always sported great and/or experienced LBer Corps justifying the purpose of scheme and alignment. Are we impressive enough or deep enough to keep putting 4 LBers out there?
Kirksey does have OLB in his past while I would LOVE to see an x-stunt blitz utilizing Orchard from an OLB spot. While a 3-4 may give our LBers smaller, more defined zones to cover - the guys up front look like passers will have all day to exploit our zone coverages and transitions. Last time Horton was here we had Ghost towns out there. I have to believe he remembers this.
If not, Horton Hears a Boo better turn into Horton Hears a Hue.
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The obvious........Coaches Bullychuck and Payton have taken Sheard and Kruger and put them back at DE....
Maybe thats why they win Super Bowls.....just thinking out loud....
The obvious........Coaches Bullychuck and Payton have taken Sheard and Kruger and put them back at DE....
Maybe thats why they win Super Bowls.....just thinking out loud....
Dick Jauron had Sheard at DE too. That didn't suck.
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Dick Jauron had Sheard at DE too. That didn't suck.
Nope....if folks remember, Sheard had a very strong rookie year and quickly became one of my favorite Browns and one, I was hoping, would develop into a GREAT player....
But, in year 2, following his strong showing at DE......Ray Horton showed up and switched him (and Paul "same story" Kruger) to OLB......the rest is (very ugly) history...
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Dick Jauron had Sheard at DE too. That didn't suck.
Nope....if folks remember, Sheard had a very strong rookie year and quickly became one of my favorite Browns and one, I was hoping, would develop into a GREAT player....
But, in year 2, following his strong showing at DE......Ray Horton showed up and switched him (and Paul "same story" Kruger) to OLB......the rest is (very ugly) history...
Nope....if folks remember, Sheard had a very strong rookie year and quickly became one of my favorite Browns and one, I was hoping, would develop into a GREAT player....
But, in year 2, following his strong showing at DE......Ray Horton showed up and switched him (and Paul "same story" Kruger) to OLB......the rest is (very ugly) history...
Zactly! But yeah, Sheard was a Defensive Player of the Year in the Big East coming out of a 3 point stance before Jauron tapped his assets. Horton came in and renamed him "Stay." These young edge rushers used to exploding up field aren't used to "Come here STAY" commands. I've seen a lot of paralysis from analysis from guys trying to make the transition from DE to OLB. It's a big reason I remain reluctant to trust it over the years Mud.
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Please, PLEASE let us play a 4-3.
I'm certainly no expert, but the 3-4 has always struck me as a game long prevent D & I despise prevent Ds.
Let the young guys learn OJT.....my choices for front 7.....
Nassib, Shelton, Meder, Ogbah
Orchard, Davis, Kirksey.
Mike
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Here's the thing. The differences in personnel between the schemes are really only incredibly different at the backers. Beyond that the lineman are still very similar. Except the Nose might be a bit of a bigger guy asked to two gap on occasion.
You don't have an issue with the 34 itself. You have an issue with your pass rushers and your gap assignments.
Those same problems will transcend scheme.
Can't rush the passer now? You won't consistently doing it the other way either. Can't stop the run? Same thing.
Not sure, tia...
Only through the 1st QTR of the Bears preseason game, but it seems to me we play with a different attitude in 4-3. Could be as simple as our rook "DEs'" comfort level with being in a 3-point, but that ain't nothing.
Not sure, tia...
Only through the 1st QTR of the Bears preseason game, but it seems to me we play with a different attitude in 4-3. Could be as simple as our rook "DEs'" comfort level with being in a 3-point, but that ain't nothing.
Hence my emphasis on mentioning the biggest difference are the OLB's.
To me, finding a collegiate DE and turning him into successful 2pt player might be the hardest thing to project and coach. It takes quite a while before you reap any real benefits.
Biggest exceptions to that rule I can think of would be Aldon Smith and Mack. However both of those players had time and coaching as rush linebackers while still in school. Now that I think of it, Aldon really didn't play from a 2pt much in his monster rookie year. Ogba and Carl have not received
that type of time at the position before. Plus I don't see either possessing the physical makeup for the spot.
Seeing that most defenses spend their time in the nickel, I'd say we'll be in our four man front 65-70% of the time.
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Home movie of you?
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This topic is Retarded.
Let's go through an entire draft, training camp, and two rounds of cuts assuming a 3-4.... and then switch to a 4-3.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
This topic is Retarded.
Let's go through an entire draft, training camp, and two rounds of cuts assuming a 3-4.... and then switch to a 4-3.
This topic is Retard.
Let's go through an entire draft, training camp, and two rounds of cuts assuming a 3-4.... and then switch to a 4-3.
I wouldnt disagree if we gadnt drafted two primary pass rushers that currently at least look "way" better in the 4-3. Im not clamoring for 4-3 cause i like seeing 4 dreamy studs bent over at the line, although..............,,.?
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Not sure, tia...
Only through the 1st QTR of the Bears preseason game, but it seems to me we play with a different attitude in 4-3. Could be as simple as our rook "DEs'" comfort level with being in a 3-point, but that ain't nothing.
Hence my emphasis on mentioning the biggest difference are the OLB's.
To me, finding a collegiate DE and turning him into successful 2pt player might be the hardest thing to project and coach. It takes quite a while before you reap any real benefits.
Biggest exceptions to that rule I can think of would be Aldon Smith and Mack. However both of those players had time and coaching as rush linebackers while still in school. Now that I think of it, Aldon really didn't play from a 2pt much in his monster rookie year. Ogba and Carl have not received
that type of time at the position before. Plus I don't see either possessing the physical makeup for the spot.
Seeing that most defenses spend their time in the nickel, I'd say we'll be in our four man front 65-70% of the time.
Hence my emphasis on mentioning the biggest difference are the OLB's.
To me, finding a collegiate DE and turning him into successful 2pt player might be the hardest thing to project and coach. It takes quite a while before you reap any real benefits.
Biggest exceptions to that rule I can think of would be Aldon Smith and Mack. However both of those players had time and coaching as rush linebackers while still in school. Now that I think of it, Aldon really didn't play from a 2pt much in his monster rookie year. Ogba and Carl have not received
that type of time at the position before. Plus I don't see either possessing the physical makeup for the spot.
I cant speak for aldon but i watched alot of macks tape and he was all over the place. Standind, sitting..it didnt matter. He even looked good at ilb'er.......i wanted him so fucking bad.
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I've always preferred the 4-3 system unless you absolutely do not have enough big guys to staff the D line.
I've always preferred the 4-3 system unless you absolutely do not have enough big guys to staff the D line.
I always like the 4-3 simply out of Nostalgia.
The Fearsome Foursome
The Doomsday Defense
The Purple People Eaters
The Steel Curtain
The New York Sack Exchange
Reggie White/Eagles line
Gino Marchetti/Big Daddy Lipscomb Colts line
Willie Davis/Henry Jordan Packers DL
Howie Long/Lyle Alzado Raiders DL
The 1985 Bears: Dent, Hampton, McMichael, Perry
And don't forget the 1964 Browns: Wiggin, Glass, Kanicki, Modzelewski
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This topic is Retarded.
Let's go through an entire draft, training camp, and two rounds of cuts assuming a 3-4.... and then switch to a 4-3.
This topic is Retard.
Let's go through an entire draft, training camp, and two rounds of cuts assuming a 3-4.... and then switch to a 4-3.
What I would say is suit your defense to match your talent. If we have the DL to play 4-3....and we don't have the LBs to play 3-4, then play 4-3...and vice versa.
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This topic is Retard.
Let's go through an entire draft, training camp, and two rounds of cuts assuming a 3-4.... and then switch to a 4-3.
What I would say is suit your defense to match your talent. If we have the DL to play 4-3....and we don't have the LBs to play 3-4, then play 4-3...and vice versa.
What I would say is suit your defense to match your talent. If we have the DL to play 4-3....and we don't have the LBs to play 3-4, then play 4-3...and vice versa.
Except we've been drafting the last 4 years for a predominantly 3-4 defence.
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What I would say is suit your defense to match your talent. If we have the DL to play 4-3....and we don't have the LBs to play 3-4, then play 4-3...and vice versa.
Except we've been drafting the last 4 years for a predominantly 3-4 defence.
Except we've been drafting the last 4 years for a predominantly 3-4 defence.
But in Browns fashion, they ended up drafting players that are better suited for a 4-3 haha.
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But in Browns fashion, they ended up drafting players that are better suited for a 4-3 haha.
The only issue I see with switching to a 4-3 is that whilst Shelton and Meder would be OK in the middle, we're a bit thin thereafter. Cooper, maybe, Hughes maybe.
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