Grossi: Browns Will Not Take Crabtree

[YtownBrownsBacker]

AdaM said:

Masters this was reported as being overheard from Mangini's mouth while Crabtree was in Berea working out.

First Adam, I don't think anything has come out of Berea. The only people at the workouts are coaches and yeam officials. So, none of them are going to say Mangini bad mouthed the guy because he would be gone.

Please believe all this is someones speculation and opinion. I don't know if the Browns like Crabtree or not and I don't think anybody else outside of Fort Berea does either. The same about Raji and his character issues or anybody else they are looking at.

Personally, I wasn't impressed with Crabtree's interviews. He is not a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a football player and probably no more a diva then Edwards.

I think about this. What is the organization plan and where does the team need to be at this time next year with needs? I don't want to have to go into the draft next year with needs at OLB, WR, SS, RB and Center.

[Kosar_For_President]

@ytownbrownsbacker said:

He is not a Rhodes Scholar, but he is a football player and probably no more a diva then Edwards.

Here lies the problem ytown. We don't need another Edwards.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

@kosar_for_president said:

Here lies the problem ytown. We don't need another Edwards.

You are absolutely right and I am not professing we take him. I am saying I don't think drafting Raji solves any of our needs. But, you never know what their plan is. I said in another thread that I think Nicks is one of the most underrated player in the draft. I also think Maybin could end up the best pass rushing/OLB (hybrid) coming out of this draft. But, both are mid first rounders, so please find a partner to trade down.

[Aloysius]

Nicks is considered a late 1st/early 2nd guy.

[EERSandBROWNS]

Aloysius said:

Nicks is considered a late 1st/early 2nd guy.

Aloy...you do a lot of scouting and know the prospects pretty well. Is there THAT big of a difference between Crabtree and Nicks? I'm just thinking we might be better off getting the top rated defensive guy at 5 and then Nicks at 29 if he's still there.

[Gips]

@jadbf said:

I tend to agree, and who will help him make that transition? Wimbley?

Crabtree lacks burst speed and pro reciever strenth to break free after the catch... frankly he is going to get hammered and may be a fumbler in the nfl..he may become paranoid of footsteps as well..ive said all along maclin is the better choice but he comes with his own set of risks..

[ballpeen]

@ytownbrownsbacker said:

. I am saying I don't think drafting Raji solves any of our needs.

You know I agree with you more often than not, but I don't understand that comment.

He makes the run D more stout, and his presence will improve the pass rush.

He himself isn't a great pass rusher, but he isn't bad. Take Rogers off the ball and play him at end or a traditional tackle spot if we go 4-3 some of the time, and his pass rush improves a great deal.

No one guy is going to block either one of them on any kind of regular basis.

I see it as a nightmare waiting to happen for opposing offensive lines.

[Aloysius]

@eersandbrowns said:

Aloy...you do a lot of scouting and know the prospects pretty well. Is there THAT big of a difference between Crabtree and Nicks? I'm just thinking we might be better off getting the top rated defensive guy at 5 and then Nicks at 29 if he's still there.

Hard to say. The two of them have similar builds, though Crabtree has longer arms and Nicks has bigger mitts. Both have great hands, though I think Crabtree's more likely to get the tough grab in traffic or successfully high-point a ball. Both are also tough to tackle, though I think Crabtree has better body control and elusiveness in the open field.

But where the big issue with both guys is character. Both bombed the Wonderlic (Crabtree got a 15, Nicks scored an 11), but Nicks has also had weight/conditioning issues. After injuring a hamstring at the Combine, he packed on fifteen pounds and couldn't work out at his pro day. He's reportedly dropped the weight since then, but he's said to have been too out of shape to work out for the Ravens last Friday.

So while both guys have the physicality and great hands that usually limit a receiver's bustability factor, the character issues add some risk. I think Nicks' issues are more disconcerting: if he doesn't stay in shape, he could end up being a Mike Williams type. And while Crabtree may have some attitude issues, he shows a great deal of competitiveness and toughness on the field. He may not have Calvin Johnson's upside, but I think he'll be a very good receiver.

[BendMeOver]

This posting began with the following statements that Crabtree was interested in the Browns but the Browns were not interested in him. I think the Browns would like to select him, and I think Sanchez is their fallback option. So in refernce to the first statement, were you a Browns GM would you put out statements about how in love you are with him (if indeed you were)? You can't trust anything out of the front office from any team at this time of year.

[DeadWombat]

I never liked crabtree once I heard about his arrogance and personality issues..... I wouldn't want him.

[Masters]

AdaM said:

Masters this was reported as being overheard from Mangini's mouth while Crabtree was in Berea working out.

From? My point it, guys like Grossi have been complaining they can't get info, yet he suddenly keeps getting tips about who CLE is gonna draft and that they will trade Quinn. Seems a bit off to me that the front office is tight lipped about everything else they have done, but this info leaks.

[Masters]

@riffer-x said:

Here Mik

Tony Grossi's blog: Cleveland Browns passing on Michael Crabtree

by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter Wednesday April 22, 2009, 10:41 AM

CLEVELAND -- The Browns have all but crossed off Michael Crabtree as a candidate for the No. 5 overall pick, said a source.

The Texas Tech receiver brought a diva attitude on his visit to the club facility last week and did not impress coach Eric Mangini and others, the source said. In fact, Crabtree was described by some in the building as "not nice." After Crabtree left, Mangini secured last-minute workouts with borderline first-round receivers Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina, Kenny Britt of Rutgers and Mohamed Massaquoi of Georgia.

* No, Derek Anderson did not have surgery on his left knee in the offseason. So why wouldn't Browns GM George Kokinis just admit it in his pre-draft press conference this week? It's a mandate from Mangini to not even acknowledge questions about surgeries. Mangini jumped all over Kokinis when Kokinis let it slip in an interview prior to the NFL combine in February that running back Jamal Lewis had routine arthroscopic surgery to "clean up" an ankle. Mangini does not even intend to speak the letters MRI if a player, in fact, has had the routine exam.

* Crabtree might not even be the first receiver taken in the draft. Seattle (fourth) and Cincinnati (sixth) are expected to fill greater needs on the offensive line. Oakland (seventh) is enamored with the speed of Missouri's Jeremy Maclin. Jacksonville (eighth) has been burned so many times by first-round receivers, they are gunshy to take another. It's quite possible that Alabama tackle Andre Smith, who turned off so many coaches at the NFL combine, will be taken ahead of Crabtree.

* Boston College defensive tackle B.J. Raji is back on the rise after reports of a positive drug test proved false. He's very much in the mix with the Browns at No. 5. Drafting Raji might result in more four-man fronts for the Browns. Also, Shaun Rogers would move to right end in the base 3-4 front. If the Browns pass him up, Raji is not expected to get past Jacksonville at No. 8 or Green Bay, for sure, at No. 9.

* New Orleans sees Ohio State's Malcolm Jenkins as a free safety and is expected to take him at No. 14.

* The first USC linebacker will go to Houston at No. 15. But which one? Either Brian Cushing or Clay Matthews, but not Rey Maualuga.

I had read it. I think it is all reporter speculation.

[Masters]

@inspecta said:

I agree with the Peen, having Raji and Rogers means you have 2 guys on the D-line that you have to double team, which means 4 linemen will have to be used to block two guys, I don't care how bad our linebackers are, with one free linemen to block whoever else is rushing, that leaves a lot of opportunity for the linebackers to run free to the QB

But CLE just tried this approach, and most on here pointed out last year you can't run a 3-4 with 2 guys above 320~330 sitting on the line. It doesn't work.

[Riffer X]

Masters said:

But CLE just tried this approach, and most on here pointed out last year you can't run a 3-4 with 2 guys above 320~330 sitting on the line. It doesn't work.

Mik I said in another thread that you must not have seen that the problem with your theory is in essence you're comparing Rogers at DE to FatSmith and an overweight and hurt Williams playing his first year at DE. Totally different scenariio with Rogers out there and Robaire and a healthy and thin downed Williams rotating.

[Masters]

@riffer-x said:

Mik I said in another thread that you must not have seen that the problem with your theory is in essence you're comparing Rogers at DE to FatSmith and an overweight and hurt Williams playing his first year at DE. Totally different scenariio with Rogers out there and Robaire and a healthy and thin downed Williams rotating.

I did miss that, sorry. Yes and no. It's still about guys that aren't going to get around the edge or do much of anything in passing situation. You still get someone new at trying to play DE. Trying to put Rogers and Raji together on a 3-4 line is a recipe for failure in my opinion. If CLE goes that route, they should just go to a 4-3 and call it a day.

[Riffer X]

Masters said:

I did miss that, sorry. Yes and no. It's still about guys that aren't going to get around the edge or do much of anything in passing situation. You still get someone new at trying to play DE. Trying to put Rogers and Raji together on a 3-4 line is a recipe for failure in my opinion. If CLE goes that route, they should just go to a 4-3 and call it a day.

Rogers was beating triple teams last year and you don't think he can't destroy at DE? Don't get the logic.

[Masters]

@inspecta said:

Perhaps Grossi got tired of not getting any info and broke into Berea after hours and planted bugs all over the facility?

Just a thought...

LOL... I got a good mental visual of that.

Anything is possible. But I think he is hearing what CLE wants him and other to hear.

[Masters]

@riffer-x said:

Rogers was beating triple teams last year and you don't think he can't destroy at DE? Don't get the logic.

I don't think he can get around the edge when taking on a T and a G. A little different than always bull rushing a C and G.

[Riffer X]

Masters said:

I don't think he can get around the edge when taking on a T and a G. A little different than always bull rushing a C and G.

I disagree. Rogers is as athletic as they get and we're talking 3/4 end here not 4/3. Plus, he could probably be talked into dropping some Lbs given that I'm sure he'd be ecstatic to make the move.

Agree with your premise but not the specifics in this case. Good 3/4 ends are a mother to find and I think Rogers could dominate there and also take tremendous pressure off of whoever ends up playing OLB next to him. Also, these guys will probably go 4/3 40% of the time anyway and those two could be devastating next to each other.

To me, the only question is whether or not the guy's character is more like Pocket Change Warren that worries me.

[Masters]

@riffer-x said:

I disagree. Rogers is as athletic as they get and we're talking 3/4 end here not 4/3. Plus, he could probably be talked into dropping some Lbs given that I'm sure he'd be ecstatic to make the move.

Agree with your premise but not the specifics in this case. Good 3/4 ends are a mother to find and I think Rogers could dominate there and also take tremendous pressure off of whoever ends up playing OLB next to him. Also, these guys will probably go 4/3 40% of the time anyway and those two could be devastating next to each other.

To me, the only question is whether or not the guy's character is more like Pocket Change Warren that worries me.

Rogers is athletic. But it is usually followed by "for a guy 340lbs". Seeing as how he was miffed about a weight requirement earlier this offseason (allegedly), I don't see him being ecstatic to have to lose weight.

3-4 ends are tough to find, unless you are PIT or NE. While I see him taking some blocking off an OLB rushing, they are now going to have to get around Rogers giant body and the two guys blocking him. If Rogers is taking on a T, I'd expect to see Rogers on the T (who will always be more agile) and getting chipped by a TE. Which should give enough time to prevent him from getting to the QB before he gets the ball off. I mean people talk about Wimbley not having moves from the edge, well Rogers is gonna have less imo (considering he's never played DE in any scheme).

Now, as you pointed out CLE will play a lot of 4-3 or 4-2 lineups in passing downs, and sure Rogers and Raji would be great taking up 3 to 4 of the guys blocking. But what about those running downs when you can take the ball to the edge. You are gonna beat Rogers to the edge. He ain't NFL RB fast/quick. I just don't see it working with two mountains.

Character is a concern too. I remember the last questionable character player CLE took in the 1st round from BC.