Draft Talk

[The Gipper]

@cainedesoulis said:

well last year around this time paxton lynch and carson wentz were 7th round or later prospects cardale jones was round 1 guy as was connor cook and i think hackenberg? Goff was a round 2 or 3? actually i'm going to check this out and update this post

**Update

for QBs in round 1 CBS Jared Goff going 4th overall to us, Connor Cook going 6th overall and Cardale Jones going 10th overall

Goff predicted 4th went 1st (+3)

Cook Predicted 6th went 100th overall (+94)

Cardale Predicted 10th went 139th overall (+129)

Paxton Lynch and Carson Wentz Not included in the first round.

So LOTS can change in the coming months take the prospect "rankings" with a grain of salt until the season is over

Kessler was actually ranked as a 2nd or 3rd round prospect early in 2015 because of his stellar 2014 season. if he would have had a repeat of his 2014 year we would have been thrilled to have him at the end of the 3rd instead of an early second

Fair enough. I suspect that all these rankings will change between now and April.

I do know that we are going to have an interesting game on Saturday when Watson and Clemson face of vs. Jackson and Louisville.

One of the games of the year perhaps.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

@texasag1969 said:

57% is not impressive to me.

Now these are stats: *2015

SR QB 13games 316com. 477attm. 66.2% 3793yds 29td 5int 151.0 rating

Yep-Dak

57% doesn't have to be impressive to you, nor should it be. It's a statline average from his two worst games, and it's the only one you pulled apart as a detracting point...which means that the rest of the stats he posted in his worst two games were still respectable stats.

You showed me yours, I'll show you mine -

SO 13 games - 210 completions, 334 attempts, 62.9%, 2,880 yards, 21 TD, 10 INT, 150.1 rating......as a sophomore.

I liked Prescott as well, but he's not going to be our QB. It's over.

Kizer is equally talented, plays in a similar spread offensive philosophy and has posted very similar career stats in terms of accuracy, (62.7 vs 62.8), rating (154.6 vs 146), and Y/A (8.0 vs 8.8). Plus he's a larger frame (6'2 vs 6'5), equally as talented athletically, and is a very intelligent and well-spoken man. I really don't see the fuss, other than the patented "take a stand for no reason and blindly stick to it" which is prevalent across this board.

[CaineDeSoulis]

I'm looking foward to watching that one, as well as Notre dame and osu and Stanford and wsu and cal and Louisville and Oklahoma gotta watch them all to see how they all do Also is should be noted that Kizer has thrown less passes in his career than Prescott did in his SR year. I like the kid but he's not ready plain and simple. He NEEDS more time and he MAY improve enough this year to warrant a selection but he really looks like he needs more time to develop. Easily the best candidate to return for his SR year, If he does not transfer to somewhere that actually shows promise in helping him develop his skills as a passer.

[CaineDeSoulis]

@the-gipper said:

I think that is highly optimistic. Right now he is listed as the 13th overall QB....and either a 7th rounder or UDFA by CBS sports. (but then I think Kessler was rated the same)

Interestingly enough Walterfootball has Webb listed as the 13th overall QB as well but has the chargers taking him in the 2nd round after Watson,Kaaya,Kizer and Kelly so pretty interesting there lol

[The Gipper]

@cainedesoulis said:

Interestingly enough Walterfootball has Webb listed as the 13th overall QB as well but has the chargers taking him in the 2nd round after Watson,Kaaya,Kizer and Kelly so pretty interesting there lol

I am becoming intrigued with Kelly. While Ole Miss has lost some games, they have been shootouts. They scored like 43 points vs. Alabama, only to lose 48-43. Pretty impressive to put up those kinds of numbers on Bama. Whomped Georgia who I thought had a tough defense. 40 plus points on FSU (but nothing like Louisville)

Plus, he has good genetics, no? Jim Kelly's nephew?

Could he be a guy for the Browns to look at seriously?

Correct me if I am wrong but, also, Lamar Jackson is not draft eligible, is he? I don't know if he is pro style (but no less than Mike Vick was)...but you HAVE to look at him.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

@the-gipper said:

I am becoming intrigued with Kelly. While Ole Miss has lost some games, they have been shootouts. They scored like 43 points vs. Alabama, only to lose 48-43. Pretty impressive to put up those kinds of numbers on Bama. Whomped Georgia who I thought had a tough defense. 40 plus points on FSU (but nothing like Louisville)

Plus, he has good genetics, no? Jim Kelly's nephew?

Could he be a guy for the Browns to look at seriously?

Correct me if I am wrong but, also, Lamar Jackson is not draft eligible, is he? I don't know if he is pro style (but no less than Mike Vick was)...but you HAVE to look at him.

Jackson is a bad passer - Kelly isn't that much better. Kelly benefits from having large receivers who go up and high-point the football. He gets away with a lot of errant and straight up well defended throws that way. Not a quality you look for in a prospect whatsoever.

[CaineDeSoulis]

Kelly has some character issues that mostly concern me. he has GREAT arm talent but I'm not so sure on his decision making.

[LogicIsForSquares]

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

.... benefits from having large receivers who go up and high-point the football. He gets away with a lot of errant and straight up well defended throws that way. Not a quality you look for in a prospect whatsoever.

That sounds painfully familiar.

[wargograw]

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Jackson is a bad passer - Kelly isn't that much better. Kelly benefits from having large receivers who go up and high-point the football. He gets away with a lot of errant and straight up well defended throws that way. Not a quality you look for in a prospect whatsoever.

Yeah, Ole Miss has the most badass group of receivers in the country and it's been that way three years running, unfortunately.

[The Gipper]

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

Jackson is a bad passer - Kelly isn't that much better. Kelly benefits from having large receivers who go up and high-point the football. He gets away with a lot of errant and straight up well defended throws that way. Not a quality you look for in a prospect whatsoever.

Walter Football rates him a 2d-3rd rounder

CBS Sports has him as a 1st-2d

SBNation has him the same

Rivals.com ranks him the #3 QB available behind Watson/Kaaya

NFLdraftscouts has him the best senior available

[The Gipper]

@wargograw said:

Yeah, Ole Miss has the most badass group of receivers in the country and it's been that way three years running, unfortunately.

Yet, even without those guys, Kelly almost pulled it off vs. Alabama and that perennial "great defense" And it wasn't his fault that the team lost.....as noted, he put up 43 points on them.

You can't sneeze at that.

Again, I say, worth a look.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

@the-gipper said:

Walter Football rates him a 2d-3rd rounder

CBS Sports has him as a 1st-2d

SBNation has him the same

Rivals.com ranks him the #3 QB available behind Watson/Kaaya

NFLdraftscouts has him the best senior available

They all also had Jared Goff as the consensus number one and he can't even beat out Case Keenum.

Again, you go blindly by what random internet lists have to say. I watch football and use my own brain to make informed decisions.

Unfortunately, everyone of our FO for the last twenty years seems to have gone your route....which is likely why we're still talking about QB prospects today.

[medicineman]

I am sick of hearing about the next draft. we are 3 games in to the season. I am not getting any younger, I want to enjoy some wins now. what happens after we draft all new players? It takes a few seasons to get them to adjust so there is more losing seasons. No other team has ever had rhis many losing seasons and if we keep bringing in a new coach every other fucking year, who will want to draft the guys he wants and get rid of the players that another coach brought in........................WE WILL NEVER WIN SHIT. Every year they get us hyped up to look like the joke of the NFL. Am I the only 1 who is sick of this? With all you guys so exited about the draft (that is like 10 months away) ...........................Oh and while I am on the rant I am just going to throw in a shout of FUCK YOU to all the Pisspuke trolls on here

[wargograw]

@the-gipper said:

Yet, even without those guys, Kelly almost pulled it off vs. Alabama and that perennial "great defense" And it wasn't his fault that the team lost.....as noted, he put up 43 points on them.

You can't sneeze at that.

Again, I say, worth a look.

Huh? It wasn't "without those guys." He has had them. They're ballers. A&M's receivers are routinely called the best group at the position in the SEC and I have said since 2014 that it was bunk. Ole Miss' are way better.

I think he's worth a look too but TCPO is absolutely right that his receivers make huge plays.

[TexasAg1969]

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

57% doesn't have to be impressive to you, nor should it be. It's a statline average from his two worst games, and it's the only one you pulled apart as a detracting point...which means that the rest of the stats he posted in his worst two games were still respectable stats.

You showed me yours, I'll show you mine -

SO 13 games - 210 completions, 334 attempts, 62.9%, 2,880 yards, 21 TD, 10 INT, 150.1 rating......as a sophomore.

I liked Prescott as well, but he's not going to be our QB. It's over.

Kizer is equally talented, plays in a similar spread offensive philosophy and has posted very similar career stats in terms of accuracy, (62.7 vs 62.8), rating (154.6 vs 146), and Y/A (8.0 vs 8.8). Plus he's a larger frame (6'2 vs 6'5), equally as talented athletically, and is a very intelligent and well-spoken man. I really don't see the fuss, other than the patented "take a stand for no reason and blindly stick to it" which is prevalent across this board.

If he shows all that well the rest of the year I would have no problem changing my mind.

[The Gipper]

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

They all also had Jared Goff as the consensus number one and he can't even beat out Case Keenum.

Again, you go blindly by what random internet lists have to say. I watch football and use my own brain to make informed decisions.

How insensate of you. There are 130 FBS college football teams. That makes about 65 games each Saturday that are played. I have neither the time nor inclination to watch them all. As a mere fan, yes, I rely on various services that are paid to do those things to provide information that hopefully I can rely upon to be somewhat accurate, or at least intelligible. You don't?

Unfortunately, everyone of our FO for the last twenty years seems to have gone your route....which is likely why we're still talking about QB prospects today.

But our FO has multiple well paid staff members to do their scouting.

[The Gipper]

@wargograw said:

Huh? It wasn't "without those guys." He has had them.

A little light on reading comprehension? We are talking about Chad Kelly and Ole Miss this year. Ketchup, baby tomato before you get squashed. "Those guys" that I am referring to are all those receivers that were on the Ole Miss team the last few years that are now graduated.

They're ballers. A&M's receivers are routinely called the best group at the position in the SEC and I have said since 2014 that it was bunk. Ole Miss' are way better.

Are? or Were? Again, I am saying that the likes of Laquon Treadwell and others have graduated. Now...does he have a new group of outstanding WRs? Maybe, They have a couple of guys that may be OK...i.e. draftable mid to late rounds. But, for SEC WRs...in checking I see that LSU has a couple of WRs that rate in the top 100 overall prospects.

And yes, I have to look this shit up on the internet That is what smart people do. I do not have a staff of scouts at my beck and call.

I think he's worth a look too but TCPO is absolutely right that his receivers make huge plays.

Name a succesful QB in history, NFL or otherwise that did not have his receivers making huge plays?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

@the-gipper said:

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

They all also had Jared Goff as the consensus number one and he can't even beat out Case Keenum.

Again, you go blindly by what random internet lists have to say. I watch football and use my own brain to make informed decisions.

How insensate of you. There are 130 FBS college football teams. That makes about 65 games each Saturday that are played. I have neither the time nor inclination to watch them all. As a mere fan, yes, I rely on various services that are paid to do those things to provide information that hopefully I can rely upon to be somewhat accurate, or at least intelligible. You don't?

Unfortunately, everyone of our FO for the last twenty years seems to have gone your route....which is likely why we're still talking about QB prospects today.

But our FO has multiple well paid staff members to do their scouting.

But there's only AT MOST 6 QB's worth their salt to be included in the discussion as franchise guys at any given moment - along with about 10 mid-level guys that could be in contention as sleepers. FTR, I initially use the rankings by major publications to guide my film study, but I work from the bottom up of each list. In theory, each guy should be better than the last....if I see regression from one guy to the next, I normally throw that guy out.

Being a Browns scout has to be the easiest job in the world. You just print out the latest rankings from Rob Rang, then take the guy rated 20 spaces below your current spot.

@the-gipper said:

@wargograw said:

Huh? It wasn't "without those guys." He has had them.

A little light on reading comprehension? We are talking about Chad Kelly and Ole Miss this year. Ketchup, baby tomato before you get squashed. "Those guys" that I am referring to are all those receivers that were on the Ole Miss team the last few years that are now graduated.

They're ballers. A&M's receivers are routinely called the best group at the position in the SEC and I have said since 2014 that it was bunk. Ole Miss' are way better.

Are? or Were? Again, I am saying that the likes of Laquon Treadwell and others have graduated. Now...does he have a new group of outstanding WRs? Maybe, They have a couple of guys that may be OK...i.e. draftable mid to late rounds. But, for SEC WRs...in checking I see that LSU has a couple of WRs that rate in the top 100 overall prospects.

And yes, I have to look this shit up on the internet That is what smart people do. I do not have a staff of scouts at my beck and call.

I think he's worth a look too but TCPO is absolutely right that his receivers make huge plays.

Name a succesful QB in history, NFL or otherwise that did not have his receivers making huge plays?

Chad Kelly has good receivers THIS year, just as he did the last few years. The smallest Ole Miss receiver on their roster is 6'1" 170 lbs....and he's a freshman. Their starting three are 6'2" 200, 6'3" 220, and 6'2" 200.

All he has to do is throw the ball up and let them high point it, just like Manziel with Evans. In college, that flies. In the NFL, not so much.

Kelly has arm talent, athleticism and moxie, but that's about it. He's not accurate, he makes head scratching decisions, and he's as much of a risk as he is a clutch player.

He's not a franchise guy, he's a project. I'm not saying he can't be the guy...and he will probably have a decent to good NFL career, but I don't see him as a fit for Hue's offense or the team as a whole considering where we are.

[The Gipper]

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

But there's only AT MOST 6 QB's worth their salt to be included in the discussion as franchise guys at any given moment - along with about 10 mid-level guys that could be in contention as sleepers. FTR, I initially use the rankings by major publications to guide my film study, but I work from the bottom up of each list. In theory, each guy should be better than the last....if I see regression from one guy to the next, I normally throw that guy out.

Well, as noted, since I am not paid to do "film study" or any such thing, I watch like Ohio State, and maybe another big game or so. Then I see the highlights And sometimes I have a life where I am doing things with my wife and family and friends, so no, I don't have time to study college football all day and night on Saturday.

So, if you want to form your own scouting service and post in on this forum....I will be glad to read it.

Being a Browns scout has to be the easiest job in the world. You just print out the latest rankings from Rob Rang, then take the guy rated 20 spaces below your current spot.

Chad Kelly has good receivers THIS year, just as he did the last few years. The smallest Ole Miss receiver on their roster is 6'1" 170 lbs....and he's a freshman. Their starting three are 6'2" 200, 6'3" 220, and 6'2" 200.

OK, I will take your word for it. I have only seen bits and pieces of their games. That is why I asked "what about this guy"....who IS rated highly by paid scouts. If you disagree with them on their ratings....fine. Tell the Browns.

All he has to do is throw the ball up and let them high point it, just like Manziel with Evans. In college, that flies. In the NFL, not so much.

Kelly has arm talent, athleticism and moxie, but that's about it. He's not accurate, he makes head scratching decisions, and he's as much of a risk as he is a clutch player.

And he is a college player. Has he no ability to grow and improve?

He's not a franchise guy, he's a project. I'm not saying he can't be the guy...and he will probably have a decent to good NFL career, but I don't see him as a fit for Hue's offense or the team as a whole considering where we are.

Well, now you have to try to go into the mind of Hue Jackson. He picked Cody Kessler when a lot of services ranked him as a UDFA 7th rounder at best.

Who do YOU trust? Hue, the ratings services, or yourself?

(no, I don't trust myself, that is not my area of expertise...but you profess that it is your area)

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

@the-gipper said:

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:

But there's only AT MOST 6 QB's worth their salt to be included in the discussion as franchise guys at any given moment - along with about 10 mid-level guys that could be in contention as sleepers. FTR, I initially use the rankings by major publications to guide my film study, but I work from the bottom up of each list. In theory, each guy should be better than the last....if I see regression from one guy to the next, I normally throw that guy out.

Well, as noted, since I am not paid to do "film study" or any such thing, I watch like Ohio State, and maybe another big game or so. Then I see the highlights And sometimes I have a life where I am doing things with my wife and family and friends, so no, I don't have time to study college football all day and night on Saturday.

So, if you want to form your own scouting service and post in on this forum....I will be glad to read it.

Being a Browns scout has to be the easiest job in the world. You just print out the latest rankings from Rob Rang, then take the guy rated 20 spaces below your current spot.

Chad Kelly has good receivers THIS year, just as he did the last few years. The smallest Ole Miss receiver on their roster is 6'1" 170 lbs....and he's a freshman. Their starting three are 6'2" 200, 6'3" 220, and 6'2" 200.

OK, I will take your word for it. I have only seen bits and pieces of their games. That is why I asked "what about this guy"....who IS rated highly by paid scouts. If you disagree with them on their ratings....fine. Tell the Browns.

All he has to do is throw the ball up and let them high point it, just like Manziel with Evans. In college, that flies. In the NFL, not so much.

Kelly has arm talent, athleticism and moxie, but that's about it. He's not accurate, he makes head scratching decisions, and he's as much of a risk as he is a clutch player.

And he is a college player. Has he no ability to grow and improve?

He's not a franchise guy, he's a project. I'm not saying he can't be the guy...and he will probably have a decent to good NFL career, but I don't see him as a fit for Hue's offense or the team as a whole considering where we are.

Well, now you have to try to go into the mind of Hue Jackson. He picked Cody Kessler when a lot of services ranked him as a UDFA 7th rounder at best.

Who do YOU trust? Hue, the ratings services, or yourself?

(no, I don't trust myself, that is not my area of expertise...but you profess that it is your area)

I trust myself - that's really it. Kessler is a welcome surprise to the extent that I didn't expect him to do so well in his first start, but the game he put together is not far unlike what he was projected to do in the NFL. Make safe, smart throws. I don't see him driving any deep outs this season, and I think Hue & Co. would do well to never include that route as a legitimate read.

Sure, Kelly has room to improve. All prospects do. However, its much harder to improve your temperament and decision-making than it is to improve your footwork and mechanics. Taking a prospect isn't about taking the perfect guy just as its not about eliminating everyone who isn't perfect. It's simply about finding out which aspects of a prospect's game are important to the success of your offense, and then finding the prospect who possesses those certain skills.

A perfect Hue prospect wouldn't be a perfect Garrett prospect. A perfect McCarthy prospect isn't a perfect Belichick prospect. So, yes, Kelly has room to improve. But the things he lacks in are things that Hue seemingly puts his emphasis on, which doesn't make him a natural fit. I could see Kelly working out in a vertical, Erhardt-Perkins-esque offense. Kelly would probably be a great Chud QB.