What is Your Opinion On Hue & The Browns Rebuild
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The Miami game is the clearest example of why the Browns are
on the right track.
To change the Browns from mediocre to excellent...you can't just add a few
big time players.
the Browns had to change the culture and character of the team. That means you have to
finally and once and for all, change the make-up of the team.
They added to the criteria some extremely important elements of a solid addition to a team.
Criteria ignored out of stupidity in the past.
What good is it to fix the qb position, and still have the same old losing culture, players who dont care,
drafting party boys, etc ?
To revamp the roster, it takes more than one draft of a few top players. They needed a bunch of the right fit players
and you can't do that unless you trade down. Otherwise, they could have drafted Wentz, and not changed the roster
much on defense.
This team makes big plays on offense and defense. I remember when it was always two runs for three yards and
a worthless third down play and a punt. They couldn't gain a yard for a first down in several games in a row.
This team is making big plays on both sides of the ball. They practice like they love it, and they play football like
they are all in. Depth has already shown to be superior - young guys are being coached up, and they have been
stepping in and making plays. I'd say right there - this coaching staff ROCKS.
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I'll start with what I feel has been our biggest handcuffs to winning close games. It's tough to watch Tabor's Special Teams looking like a Special Education Class learning a foreign language every time we try to place kick for points or return a punt/kickoff without flags. When an early PAT was blocked by Baltimore and returned for 2 points - that 3 point swing changed everything at the end of the game. Chasing only a 2 point deficit means we only needed a FG to win.
If I'm game planning for Tabor's kickoff return team after watching them on film last week - I have my kicker put air under his kickoff so we can keep getting the same Cleveland Browns to block someone in the back or hold. End result? Half the distance to the goal line with an inexperienced QB. Tabor must have some serious dirt on Jimmy because it's the most inexplicable tenure I've witnessed. I still remember his his unit looking like they didn't know what an onside kick was vrs the NE Patriots. I know someone will pull out some stats that reflect well on our coverage units. That said, look who he selected to be our punt returner - our oldest corner in the secondary. How many times do we have to see Baltimore's STs blocking our place kicks. In 2014, they blocked the game winning points, in 2015 they not only blocked our game winning points but scored a TD from it. Then came the blocked PAT this year.
Reality? A team coming off only 3 wins doesn't have the same margin of error teams that other teams drafting better than us since 1999 do. Therefore, I understand where we are in order to set my expectation. I was REALLY proud of the young guys that played hard last week. In a game that went into overtime, our offense behind an inexperienced QB that didn't have very many confident in him in tandem with another QB no NFL teams wanted - drove us into FG range about 5 or 6 times. Unfortunately, the unemployed place kicker signed on Friday (because our kicker was injured) - missed 3 FGs on Sunday. There's that margin of error I spoke of this team can't afford. If a front office lacking the clairvoyance to predict a knee injury to its starting kicker was grounds - then shouldn't Bill Belichick have been fired in Cleveland when he couldn't foresee Testaverde going to IR = Football Follies by Todd Philcox? YES, we know this shit doesn't happen in other cities but it does here.
I wanted to see more guys in position to tackle people this year. I do. I wanted to see more first contact with ball carriers and pass catchers ending in tackles. I do. I wanted to see better ability to run the ball. If Crow ranks #2 in the AFC - I do. I wanted to see at least 1 legit WR here and it sure looks like Pryor and Coleman are a pretty nice 1-2 punch when we can get them out there together. I've wanted to see this team run a screen pass for once? I've seen them do it more than once, which a FREAKIN record. The only lopsided loss we had was as close as 13-10 in the 3rd quarter to the same Philly team that Rathoused Ben Rapen's Pittsburgh Stee-roids by a much bigger margin.
Now, I also want to remind people Mitch Schwartz wasn't always Mr Wonderful in pass pro here especially when we had inexperienced QBs holding onto the ball too long leading to holding penalties and sacks given up. Pasztor had about 5 of our penalties and gave up some bad sacks last week. However, a couple of his holds prevented a 3rd QB from a potential season ending injury when he held onto the ball too long. Even the time Kessler fumbled away our first possession - he had a reasonable amount of time to get rid of it in lieu of coughing it up to Pasztor's man. Last year, Pasztor was a pleasant surprise filling in at 2 different OG spots without all the flags and sacks. My guess is we COULD kick him into RG against slower guys with bigger girth and bring in Spencer Drango who played LT for a pass happy Baylor team while Coleman isn't ready yet. Drango has been playing when we've used some unbalanced lines so he's got some reps under his belt.
As the influx of newcomers here establish better chem with veterans while gaining experience - a lot of the reasons we're losing close games can be corrected. Nobody wants moral victories. They want wins. Dom gummit, we're going to see it.
If I'm game planning for Tabor's kickoff return team after watching them on film last week - I have my kicker put air under his kickoff so we can keep getting the same Cleveland Browns to block someone in the back or hold. End result? Half the distance to the goal line with an inexperienced QB. Tabor must have some serious dirt on Jimmy because it's the most inexplicable tenure I've witnessed. I still remember his his unit looking like they didn't know what an onside kick was vrs the NE Patriots.Dude, where the heck were ya when I posted my Chris Tabor thread?
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
well that's indy's FO's fault for not being able to draft an OL within 3 years. andrew luck is basically a one man show in indy right now.
i don't know what talent you are looking at. maybe some players that aren't playing right now? but to garner more picks and then draft 12 bums is kinda remarkable. and for anyone to say this year's draft was a success, outside of nassib and coleman (and they only played how many games 1, 2?) is standing on their heads whistling dixie.
Hey, you're the one selling the put all your marbles into your very first pick so why are Russell Wilson and Tom Brady the guys going to more Superbowls in their first 5 years than so many of those first or second QBs off the draft board in recent years? Look how good the Lions have been doing ever since they drafted Matthew Stafford. Just get your first draft pick right and give it a Tommy Chong don't worry about it for everything thereafter. It worked wonders for Ditka in New Orleans.
Who is saying this year's draft is a complete success or failure after only 3 games? If that's the case, Joey Bosa is a failure. Jared Goff is a failure. Sounds like reasonable criteria? It shouldn't. Some of these challenges take more time than others but explaining that at Barfly Joe's is like reasoning with someone who swears he saw a bunch of green martians walking out of a space ship.
Shall I continue because we can kick a lot of guys out of the NFL Hall of Fame or prevent them from altogether going using your 1st 3 games criteria like: Terry Bradshaw, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve Young... That's fine with me. I wouldn't mind it if a couple of those guys didn't go. Pittsburgh could have fired Chuck Noll especially if they followed you and whoever else wanted to make all your conclusions from preseason football. I'll drive you to Rooney's doorstep to watch you straighten him out considering how many LBers they've drafted over the years that didn't even see the field as rookies before frequenting Pro Bowls.
The only one making conclusions about the draft right now is you saying they drafted 12 bums in the cut and paste above. I've been looking at us putting all our marbles into 1 guy in round 1 since we drafted Tim Couch 1st overall in 1999. We've traded up for Trent Richardson when all the draft experts on the planet told us how wonderful we did for it. If a team has a tradition of sucking at pegging the right upper first round talent, maybe trading back so they could add picks while landing an Aaron Rodgers in the 20s of round 1 or trading back and adding a pick for Ben Rapen instead of up and losing a pick for KWII? This way, you aim toward making your franchise an easier team to QB like they've done in NE and Seattle.
Hey, you're the one selling the put all your marbles into your very first pick so why are Russell Wilson and Tom Brady the guys going to more Superbowls in their first 5 years than so many of those first or second QBs off the draft board in recent years? Look how good the Lions have been doing ever since they drafted Matthew Stafford. Just get your first draft pick right and give it a Tommy Chong don't worry about it for everything thereafter. It worked wonders for Ditka in New Orleans.
Who is saying this year's draft is a complete success or failure after only 3 games? If that's the case, Joey Bosa is a failure. Jared Goff is a failure. Sounds like reasonable criteria? It shouldn't.
Shall I continue because we can kick a lot of guys out of the NFL Hall of Fame or prevent them from altogether going using your 1st 3 games criteria like: Terry Bradshaw, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve Young... That's fine with me. I wouldn't mind it if a couple of those guys didn't go. Pittsburgh could have fired Chuck Noll especially if they followed you and whoever else wanted to make all your conclusions from preseason football. I'll drive you to Rooney's doorstep to watch you straighten him out considering how many LBers they've drafted over the years that didn't even see the field as rookies before frequenting Pro Bowls.
The only one making conclusions about the draft right now is you saying they drafted 12 bums in the cut and paste above. I've been looking at us putting all our marbles into 1 guy in round 1 since we drafted Tim Couch 1st overall in 1999. We've traded up for Trent Richardson when all the draft experts on the planet told us how wonderful we did for it. If a team has a tradition of sucking at pegging the right upper first round talent, maybe trading back so they could add picks while landing an Aaron Rodgers in the 20s of round 1 or trading back and adding a pick for Ben Rapen instead of up and losing a pick for KWII? This way, you aim toward making your franchise an easier team to QB like they've done in NE and Seattle.
4th game tomorrow and your rookie superstars will have contribute a half a season to that point. great start!
a lot of people's jobs have been lost with that 3 game criteria. you think a coach on a hot seat (not talking a bout hue cuz we all know we're tanking this season) is going to stick with a bum QB who has lost them the previous 3 games going into week 4? doubt it. how about a kicker? a nose tackle that let's opposing running backs right up the middle? you think he's starting week 4? i know there's not enough to go on with these guys to say they make or break it, but with the record the brown's have with drafting and not pulling the trigger on blue chip talent because they're scared to make a mistake is bullshit. that's why you hire a seasoned professional who has actually built teams as a general manager before. i betcha wolf and pollian woulda picked the QB there with a 'who gives a fuck about surrounding talent' when you know the guy will be playing for a decade and a half.
so you can go down the list of all the draftees from this year and you pick out 6 out of the 14 that will be on an nfl team in 5 years and i'll make you a gentlemen's wager that you'll be wrong.
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If I'm game planning for Tabor's kickoff return team after watching them on film last week - I have my kicker put air under his kickoff so we can keep getting the same Cleveland Browns to block someone in the back or hold. End result? Half the distance to the goal line with an inexperienced QB. Tabor must have some serious dirt on Jimmy because it's the most inexplicable tenure I've witnessed. I still remember his his unit looking like they didn't know what an onside kick was vrs the NE Patriots.
Dude, where the heck were ya when I posted my Chris Tabor thread?
Dude, where the heck were ya when I posted my Chris Tabor thread?
Enjoying your post thoroughly. I've been complaining him for a long time so it was refreshing to see someone else giving it an acknowledgement. He usually has someone that defends him with stats that reflect better on his STs than the eye ball test witnessing the never ending flags on his return teams. Some years worse than others. I'll confess to liking our punt/kick coverages under him in previous years but that's about it. The Ravens always look forward to our place kicking adventures against them in recent years.
Do you want to know another reason Hue was pissed at Andy Lee besides being a sissy? He was outkicking the coverages for his own personal stats rather going shorter with more hang time so we could cage in the punt returner more effectively. Hue also gave Tabor an earful about it too on the sideline and rightfully so.
Regardless of my opinion, every new regime likes his reputation enough to retain him. I thought I'd give him another chance this year and our place kicking really hurt us in 2 close games the last weeks. Even worse, our return game got penalized twice last week to where one of those was a half the distance to our goal line we could ill-afford. These types of things are very correctable and he rarely seems to get them corrected.
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Hey, you're the one selling the put all your marbles into your very first pick so why are Russell Wilson and Tom Brady the guys going to more Superbowls in their first 5 years than so many of those first or second QBs off the draft board in recent years? Look how good the Lions have been doing ever since they drafted Matthew Stafford. Just get your first draft pick right and give it a Tommy Chong don't worry about it for everything thereafter. It worked wonders for Ditka in New Orleans.
Who is saying this year's draft is a complete success or failure after only 3 games? If that's the case, Joey Bosa is a failure. Jared Goff is a failure. Sounds like reasonable criteria? It shouldn't.
Shall I continue because we can kick a lot of guys out of the NFL Hall of Fame or prevent them from altogether going using your 1st 3 games criteria like: Terry Bradshaw, Brett Favre, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Steve Young... That's fine with me. I wouldn't mind it if a couple of those guys didn't go. Pittsburgh could have fired Chuck Noll especially if they followed you and whoever else wanted to make all your conclusions from preseason football. I'll drive you to Rooney's doorstep to watch you straighten him out considering how many LBers they've drafted over the years that didn't even see the field as rookies before frequenting Pro Bowls.
The only one making conclusions about the draft right now is you saying they drafted 12 bums in the cut and paste above. I've been looking at us putting all our marbles into 1 guy in round 1 since we drafted Tim Couch 1st overall in 1999. We've traded up for Trent Richardson when all the draft experts on the planet told us how wonderful we did for it. If a team has a tradition of sucking at pegging the right upper first round talent, maybe trading back so they could add picks while landing an Aaron Rodgers in the 20s of round 1 or trading back and adding a pick for Ben Rapen instead of up and losing a pick for KWII? This way, you aim toward making your franchise an easier team to QB like they've done in NE and Seattle.
4th game tomorrow and your rookie superstars will have contribute a half a season to that point. great start!
a lot of people's jobs have been lost with that 3 game criteria. you think a coach on a hot seat (not talking a bout hue cuz we all know we're tanking this season) is going to stick with a bum QB who has lost them the previous 3 games going into week 4? doubt it. how about a kicker? a nose tackle that let's opposing running backs right up the middle? you think he's starting week 4? i know there's not enough to go on with these guys to say they make or break it, but with the record the brown's have with drafting and not pulling the trigger on blue chip talent because they're scared to make a mistake is bullshit. that's why you hire a seasoned professional who has actually built teams as a general manager before. i betcha wolf and pollian woulda picked the QB there with a 'who gives a fuck about surrounding talent' when you know the guy will be playing for a decade and a half.
so you can go down the list of all the draftees from this year and you pick out 6 out of the 14 that will be on an nfl team in 5 years and i'll make you a gentlemen's wager that you'll be wrong.
4th game tomorrow and your rookie superstars will have contribute a half a season to that point. great start!
a lot of people's jobs have been lost with that 3 game criteria. you think a coach on a hot seat (not talking a bout hue cuz we all know we're tanking this season) is going to stick with a bum QB who has lost them the previous 3 games going into week 4? doubt it. how about a kicker? a nose tackle that let's opposing running backs right up the middle? you think he's starting week 4? i know there's not enough to go on with these guys to say they make or break it, but with the record the brown's have with drafting and not pulling the trigger on blue chip talent because they're scared to make a mistake is bullshit. that's why you hire a seasoned professional who has actually built teams as a general manager before. i betcha wolf and pollian woulda picked the QB there with a 'who gives a fuck about surrounding talent' when you know the guy will be playing for a decade and a half.
so you can go down the list of all the draftees from this year and you pick out 6 out of the 14 that will be on an nfl team in 5 years and i'll make you a gentlemen's wager that you'll be wrong.
The last gentlemen's wager we made was about who would win the power struggle between Brady and Roger Goodfella. You took Brady I took Roger. Remember? You couldn't wait to remember it at first until.... I never saw you wanting to acknowledge it again right? See what happens when you have a premature conclusion?
What rookies have I called superstars in this thread? Cut and paste can be quite a courtesy especially when accusations are being made. You're taking everything way out of context to prove a point and I can't say I see this as your best work. How about reading what has actually been written by me in my first 2 posts of this thread? And if you suck at speed reading - don't speed read. You're smart - you'll get it.
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we had a gentlemen's wager on goodell/brady?
what did we wager?
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My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
So you're saying, "Wait 'till next year." ?
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First it might be a bit early to judge Hue on almost anything quite yet especially factoring in the unpredictable things like injuries and bonehead players.
Just look at the 1999-present coaches, plans and their and the FO at the time:
Hue Jackson NFL 2016- 0-4* (0.00) *updated week 4
Mike Pettine NFL 2014-15 10-22-0 (0.313)
Rob Chudzinski NFL 2013 4-12-0 (0.250)
Pat Shurmur NFL 2011-12 9-23-0 (0.281)
Eric Mangini NFL 2009-10 10-22-0 (0.3125)
Romeo Crennel NFL 2005-08 24-40-0 (0.375)
Terry Robiskie NFL 2004* 1-4-0 (0.200)
Butch Davis NFL 2001-04 24-35-0 (0.407) 0-1-0 (0.000) 24-36-0 (0.400) <--- the most successful since '99?
Chris Palmer NFL 1999-2000 5-27-0 (0.156)
So what will be the yardstick measurements and timetable for Hue? I hope we're not down to using a stopwatch like they use for 40 yard dash times.....yet.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
as i said earlier my biggest beef is with what transpired in the draft, plain and simple.
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From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
^ this!!!
i agree it's too early. i know my stance here seems pretty anti-hue but it's more anti-FO than anything. sure i liked nassib and coleman, but at the expense of a franchise QB? can't accept that. even if wentz turns out to be doo doo his first 3 games have made the FO's decision making look dumb as hell. now the question goes back on hue with his choice of kessler. if he looks great and can be a legitimate starter then hue deserves a pledge pin. if he looks like a 3rd stringer then the question is who is available next year? these run first qbs i don't want any part of. the kid from miami i like but don't know if he's even eligible to come out yet. then you have to balance need. maybe the browns will shit the bed again next year to garner the QB pick in 2018 and try to get blue chip help on defense next year?
all i know is you can't keep drafting lower level talent and hope they turn into HOFers cuz these staffs have a limited window of opportunity then it's bye bye, once again.
What makes you so certain Coleman, Nassib, and Ogbah are lower level talent? Remind us again how high Bill Belichick prioritized Tom Brady? The back end of round 6? And how high was Russell Wilson prioritized before he QB'd Seattle to 2 Superbowls? Speaking of that draft class, how many Superbowls has Indy been in since they drafted Andrew Luck at #1 overall? How much are they dominating the league in 2016? He may be talented but that offensive line there looks about as good at protecting their leader as Saddam Hussein's 65 year old security guards were up against American Troops. Who's kidding who?
When BB was in Cleveland (outside of the Eric Turner and Steve Everitt selections) he learned it might have been a better idea to trade back in lieu of knee jerking for a Craig Powell and/or a Touchdown-free Tommy Vardell in the upper half of round 1. And we couldn't hide Antonio Langham's cement shoes in zone coverage forever. BB learned the hard way here before he could become what he became for NE trading back in seemingly every draft for bigger draft volumes. And not for nothing, guys like Lorenzo White and Joe Morris had grey hair and grandchildren when BB signed them as FAs here.
Right now, Wentz plays QB for a team coming off a 7-9 record. He also has the margin of error of a talented defense with a great DC (Schwartz) keeping scoreboard helpful. Not much different than the Minnesota Vikings winning regardless of who they start at QB or even the Denver Broncos going with Trevor Siemian (a 7th round QB from Northwestern in 2015). Did anyone notice North Dakota State with a brand new starting QB beat Iowa (with a bunch of returning starters that lost in the closing seconds of the Big 10 Championship Game in 2015)? NDS also won consecutive National Championships before Wentz and they look like they can be just as good after him if the win over Iowa is any indication.
I remember back when the Chicago Bears had a good team and Rex Grossman got hurt very early on. Kyle Orton filled in as starter and won something like his first 9 or 10 starts in game management mode without turning the ball over very often. He wasn't sporting killer good stats or anything but he won under careful game plans. Wentz has the ability to escape trouble better than Orton but he also has the ability to get injured dating back to college and as recently as 2 broken ribs in the preseason. Cleveland always tends to go through at least 2-3 QBs so what made Wentz so perfect for that? Why not gain bigger draft volumes so you can put something better around QB than Indy seems to be willing to do for Andrew Luck...
I watched the North Dakota game and thought the same thingWhat makes you so certain Coleman, Nassib, and Ogbah are lower level talent? Remind us again how high Bill Belichick prioritized Tom Brady? The back end of round 6? And how high was Russell Wilson prioritized before he QB'd Seattle to 2 Superbowls? Speaking of that draft class, how many Superbowls has Indy been in since they drafted Andrew Luck at #1 overall? How much are they dominating the league in 2016? He may be talented but that offensive line there looks about as good at protecting their leader as Saddam Hussein's 65 year old security guards were up against American Troops. Who's kidding who?
When BB was in Cleveland (outside of the Eric Turner and Steve Everitt selections) he learned it might have been a better idea to trade back in lieu of knee jerking for a Craig Powell and/or a Touchdown-free Tommy Vardell in the upper half of round 1. And we couldn't hide Antonio Langham's cement shoes in zone coverage forever. BB learned the hard way here before he could become what he became for NE trading back in seemingly every draft for bigger draft volumes. And not for nothing, guys like Lorenzo White and Joe Morris had grey hair and grandchildren when BB signed them as FAs here.
Right now, Wentz plays QB for a team coming off a 7-9 record. He also has the margin of error of a talented defense with a great DC (Schwartz) keeping scoreboard helpful. Not much different than the Minnesota Vikings winning regardless of who they start at QB or even the Denver Broncos going with Trevor Siemian (a 7th round QB from Northwestern in 2015). Did anyone notice North Dakota State with a brand new starting QB beat Iowa (with a bunch of returning starters that lost in the closing seconds of the Big 10 Championship Game in 2015)? NDS also won consecutive National Championships before Wentz and they look like they can be just as good after him if the win over Iowa is any indication.
I remember back when the Chicago Bears had a good team and Rex Grossman got hurt very early on. Kyle Orton filled in as starter and won something like his first 9 or 10 starts in game management mode without turning the ball over very often. He was sporting killer good stats or anything but he won under careful game plans. Wentz has the ability to escape trouble better than Orton but he also has the ability to get injured dating back to college and as recently as 2 broken ribs in the preseason. Cleveland always tends to go through at least 2-3 QBs so what made Wentz so perfect for that? Why not gain bigger draft volumes so you can put something better around QB than Indy seems to be willing to do for Andrew Luck...
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When I wrote the post I knew it's early; three games in. My main concern is not who we DIDNT draft but who we did draft. I like Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Higging so far. No they're not going anywhere this year but can anyone expect them to?
I think by mid season we will have a better idea about the team and Hue Jackson. But I'm keeping my glass half full right now because Jackson was the best coach available.
I'm scouting College QB's.. I watched Notre Dame today, Clemson vs Louisville, Ohio St vs Rutgers, Wyoming vs Colorado, etc etc
There's a QUARTER BACK OUT THERE WITH OUR NAME ON IT Now all I have to do is pray!
DAMN THE TORPEDOES! FULL SPEED AHEAD! -
From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
Well said Gumby!
Cliff Clavin here is gonna deliver the Cliff Notes with the last paragraph of my first post in this thread:
As the influx of newcomers here establish better chem with veterans while gaining experience - a lot of the reasons we're losing close games can be corrected. Nobody wants moral victories. They want wins. Dom gummit, we're going to see it.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
as i said earlier my biggest beef is with what transpired in the draft, plain and simple.
We know. Lol You have made this point a lot.as i said earlier my biggest beef is with what transpired in the draft, plain and simple.
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From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
Well said Gumby!
Cliff Clavin here is gonna deliver the Cliff Notes with the last paragraph of my first post in this thread:
As the influx of newcomers here establish better chem with veterans while gaining experience - a lot of the reasons we're losing close games can be corrected. Nobody wants moral victories. They want wins. Dom gummit, we're going to see it.
Very cool as a flugelhorn plays in the distance.Well said Gumby!
Cliff Clavin here is gonna deliver the Cliff Notes with the last paragraph of my first post in this thread:
As the influx of newcomers here establish better chem with veterans while gaining experience - a lot of the reasons we're losing close games can be corrected. Nobody wants moral victories. They want wins. Dom gummit, we're going to see it.
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When I wrote the post I knew it's early; three games in. My main concern is not who we DIDNT draft but who we did draft. I like Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Higging so far. No they're not going anywhere this year but can anyone expect them to?
I think by mid season we will have a better idea about the team and Hue Jackson. But I'm keeping my glass half full right now because Jackson was the best coach available.
I'm scouting College QB's.. I watched Notre Dame today, Clemson vs Louisville, Ohio St vs Rutgers, Wyoming vs Colorado, etc etc
There's a QUARTER BACK OUT THERE WITH OUR NAME ON IT Now all I have to do is pray!
When I wrote the post I knew it's early; three games in. My main concern is not who we DIDNT draft but who we did draft. I like Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Higging so far. No they're not going anywhere this year but can anyone expect them to?
I think by mid season we will have a better idea about the team and Hue Jackson. But I'm keeping my glass half full right now because Jackson was the best coach available.
I'm scouting College QB's.. I watched Notre Dame today, Clemson vs Louisville, Ohio St vs Rutgers, Wyoming vs Colorado, etc etc
There's a QUARTER BACK OUT THERE WITH OUR NAME ON IT Now all I have to do is pray!
Understanding the LAST 2 coaches that REALLY wanted to come here and do a nice job left here with their heads and spirits between their legs - we should have been happy that the 1 candidate the most teams wanted to interview chose Cleveland. I'm not sure where in all this made him the bad guy that's easy to hate and root against. If Hue fails too for all those that can't wait to celebrate their told you so's - the only type of candidate that will be interested is Ken Whisenhunt while a guy like Schwartz will choose Buffalo. That sounds like 1 great big Koombaya interrupted by a bunch of hiccups and stuttering.
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My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
Me too my man! I want us winning games every freakin Sunday; and the last 2 had us watching until the very end thinking we could do so. In fact, the last one went into overtime if memory serves me right. Having said all that, I was informed in this thread we're tanking the season which means that Hue and our front office was thrilled this team lost the last 2 weeks. Did either of our last 2 games look like this team or it's staff wanted to lose?
Now consider what's about to come out in the draft at QB in 2017 in terms of can't miss football messiah. How does one conclude a front office full of Harvard intellect is all gung ho for 0-16 football this year so it can shit in the face of Joe Thomas and the 1 Head Coach that had 4 or 5 teams that wanted to interview him beside Cleveland. Make sense? It shouldn't.
Just imagine the interview and it would look like a conversation between Billy Crystal and Robert DeNiro in the movie Analyze This.
Jimmy: Do you like to win?
Hue: Yes.
Jimmy: No you don't. Do you want to lose every game this year?
Hue: No.
Jimmy: Yes you do. Are you still interested in the job here?
Hue: No.
Jimmy: Yes you are. Now go remind Joe Thomas why he needs to stay here with the smile I just painted on your face.
Hue: Okay Gepetto. Anything else?
Jimmy: Yeah, make sure the new kicker hurts his knee late in the week before the Miami game. I owe some money to the Parkey family and he'll help us keep the 0-16 dream alive...
Hue: It'll be done with smiles on our faces.
Each week, we look like we're getting closer to winning. To be honest, we only had a 3 point deficit to Philly in the 3rd quarter who beat Ben Rapen's Pittsburgh Stee-roids by a much bigger margin. Philly won 9 or 10 games in 2014 and 7 games in 2015 so it wasn't like they sucked before adding Schwartz and an offensive mindset that didn't choose to no huddle away their time of possession. End result: not only did they improve their thinking on both sides of the ball - their defense actually rested their legs and oxygen supplies Win-win.
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I like reading your post flugelhorn! Awesome!
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Flugs we have a secret weapon called the FO whisperer. She insures we lose every close game this season.
Peanuts strip originally published on October 10, 1982 -
There's a positive article about the Browns on nflspinzone.com by Dan Smelzer
Led by new front office and coaching staff, the Cleveland Browns are the one team in the league who are clearly undergoing a deep rebuilding process. They built their team around young players and future draft capital, knowing that they would not be Super Bowl contenders in the 2016 NFL season.
This was a smart move by Cleveland. Instead of trying their best to go 7-9 or 8-8, the Browns are better off letting the bottom drop out of this team. They need more young, impact players, and this complete rebuild is the best way to make that happen.
In my eyes, other NFL teams should be following suit and would be wise to start doing so sooner rather than later. In-season trading is rare in the NFL, but it could be a great opportunity for these franchises to kick-start a much-needed rebuild
The nflspinzone.com also had another article called "The Transformation Of Terrelle Pryor. It's a positive
account of how he's turned it around since his Ohio State Days and suspension which led him to the NFL
GO BROWNS
Does anyone agree that this rebuild is more important than going 7-9 every year? And do you think Hue will finally get Cleveland competitive again?
In my eyes, other NFL teams should be following suit and would be wise to start doing so sooner rather than later. In-season trading is rare in the NFL, but it could be a great opportunity for these franchises to kick-start a much-needed rebuild
nflspinzone?.....quality stuff, right there....
Only problem with stripping a team of the little talent it has, in an effort to rebuild, is that it ISNT a proven method or one that teams have used to suceed......By removing your good players, that increases the # of players needed to succeed, which makes the climb longer and harder.....I just cant agree with the methods.....even if improvement shows, it's still gonna be less than it could have been....
Example....had they simply signed a few key players(O Line comes to mind) we may not be 0-3 right now....eh?
Not sure on this. I really didn't know that we were in a 7-9 rut.
HA!.....aint that the truth.....
Jury is out for the long run, but there were mistakes in the draft and in retention. If those are owned up to and rectified, then there is a chance of an eventual playoff team by year 3-4. But if we have a shot at a true impact player who is overall BPA and in a position of primary need, but cash him in for more lesser players again, then throw the bums out.
Right....trading and releasing known talent and trading down to collect a shit ton of middle and late picks is not the way to get "impact" players.....period
They may hit on one or two(if they're lucky), but that wont be the difference...
What is Your Opinion On Hue & The Browns Rebuild
Not enough data yet. Too early to tell.
Dont need time or data to have an opinion of what you're seeing....it's just about how you feel at this point....
I always have an opinion......but usually wait to draw conclusions....
^ this!!!
i agree it's too early. i know my stance here seems pretty anti-hue but it's more anti-FO than anything.
Im with you there......not a fan of the FO.....(at all).....Hue seems ok and there is a lot I do like about him(mostly his staff).... but I see a number of troubling things right out of the gate, which concern me....and the fact that so many instantly declared him a genius and our savior is maddening.....if he was such an offensive genius, then why has he been a position coach for 13 out of 16 seasons???....and a DB and special teams coach just a couple years ago???.....coachiung DB's seems like a waste of offensive genius and QB godliness, eh?
Twice we have lost players to injury, only to declare the back up a better player.....examples would be when RGIII went down and we ALL were happy to see McCown become the starter....why???....cause he was the better player in camp AND on the field......same EXACT thing with Erving going down and the team improving because of it.....so my question is WHY are we starting shittier players than we have on the bench(Shobert fits the mold too)....because those are samples of stubborn and poor coaching choices....
And why do we pass so much, when we lead the league in rushing?.....another head scratcher.....
FO needs to step up THIS YEAR and do something in free agency that at least makes it seem like they are actually trying to win....
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