What is Your Opinion On Hue & The Browns Rebuild
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My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
So you're saying, "Wait 'till next year." ?
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First it might be a bit early to judge Hue on almost anything quite yet especially factoring in the unpredictable things like injuries and bonehead players.
Just look at the 1999-present coaches, plans and their and the FO at the time:
Hue Jackson NFL 2016- 0-4* (0.00) *updated week 4
Mike Pettine NFL 2014-15 10-22-0 (0.313)
Rob Chudzinski NFL 2013 4-12-0 (0.250)
Pat Shurmur NFL 2011-12 9-23-0 (0.281)
Eric Mangini NFL 2009-10 10-22-0 (0.3125)
Romeo Crennel NFL 2005-08 24-40-0 (0.375)
Terry Robiskie NFL 2004* 1-4-0 (0.200)
Butch Davis NFL 2001-04 24-35-0 (0.407) 0-1-0 (0.000) 24-36-0 (0.400) <--- the most successful since '99?
Chris Palmer NFL 1999-2000 5-27-0 (0.156)
So what will be the yardstick measurements and timetable for Hue? I hope we're not down to using a stopwatch like they use for 40 yard dash times.....yet.
GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND! -
as i said earlier my biggest beef is with what transpired in the draft, plain and simple.
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From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
^ this!!!
i agree it's too early. i know my stance here seems pretty anti-hue but it's more anti-FO than anything. sure i liked nassib and coleman, but at the expense of a franchise QB? can't accept that. even if wentz turns out to be doo doo his first 3 games have made the FO's decision making look dumb as hell. now the question goes back on hue with his choice of kessler. if he looks great and can be a legitimate starter then hue deserves a pledge pin. if he looks like a 3rd stringer then the question is who is available next year? these run first qbs i don't want any part of. the kid from miami i like but don't know if he's even eligible to come out yet. then you have to balance need. maybe the browns will shit the bed again next year to garner the QB pick in 2018 and try to get blue chip help on defense next year?
all i know is you can't keep drafting lower level talent and hope they turn into HOFers cuz these staffs have a limited window of opportunity then it's bye bye, once again.
What makes you so certain Coleman, Nassib, and Ogbah are lower level talent? Remind us again how high Bill Belichick prioritized Tom Brady? The back end of round 6? And how high was Russell Wilson prioritized before he QB'd Seattle to 2 Superbowls? Speaking of that draft class, how many Superbowls has Indy been in since they drafted Andrew Luck at #1 overall? How much are they dominating the league in 2016? He may be talented but that offensive line there looks about as good at protecting their leader as Saddam Hussein's 65 year old security guards were up against American Troops. Who's kidding who?
When BB was in Cleveland (outside of the Eric Turner and Steve Everitt selections) he learned it might have been a better idea to trade back in lieu of knee jerking for a Craig Powell and/or a Touchdown-free Tommy Vardell in the upper half of round 1. And we couldn't hide Antonio Langham's cement shoes in zone coverage forever. BB learned the hard way here before he could become what he became for NE trading back in seemingly every draft for bigger draft volumes. And not for nothing, guys like Lorenzo White and Joe Morris had grey hair and grandchildren when BB signed them as FAs here.
Right now, Wentz plays QB for a team coming off a 7-9 record. He also has the margin of error of a talented defense with a great DC (Schwartz) keeping scoreboard helpful. Not much different than the Minnesota Vikings winning regardless of who they start at QB or even the Denver Broncos going with Trevor Siemian (a 7th round QB from Northwestern in 2015). Did anyone notice North Dakota State with a brand new starting QB beat Iowa (with a bunch of returning starters that lost in the closing seconds of the Big 10 Championship Game in 2015)? NDS also won consecutive National Championships before Wentz and they look like they can be just as good after him if the win over Iowa is any indication.
I remember back when the Chicago Bears had a good team and Rex Grossman got hurt very early on. Kyle Orton filled in as starter and won something like his first 9 or 10 starts in game management mode without turning the ball over very often. He wasn't sporting killer good stats or anything but he won under careful game plans. Wentz has the ability to escape trouble better than Orton but he also has the ability to get injured dating back to college and as recently as 2 broken ribs in the preseason. Cleveland always tends to go through at least 2-3 QBs so what made Wentz so perfect for that? Why not gain bigger draft volumes so you can put something better around QB than Indy seems to be willing to do for Andrew Luck...
I watched the North Dakota game and thought the same thingWhat makes you so certain Coleman, Nassib, and Ogbah are lower level talent? Remind us again how high Bill Belichick prioritized Tom Brady? The back end of round 6? And how high was Russell Wilson prioritized before he QB'd Seattle to 2 Superbowls? Speaking of that draft class, how many Superbowls has Indy been in since they drafted Andrew Luck at #1 overall? How much are they dominating the league in 2016? He may be talented but that offensive line there looks about as good at protecting their leader as Saddam Hussein's 65 year old security guards were up against American Troops. Who's kidding who?
When BB was in Cleveland (outside of the Eric Turner and Steve Everitt selections) he learned it might have been a better idea to trade back in lieu of knee jerking for a Craig Powell and/or a Touchdown-free Tommy Vardell in the upper half of round 1. And we couldn't hide Antonio Langham's cement shoes in zone coverage forever. BB learned the hard way here before he could become what he became for NE trading back in seemingly every draft for bigger draft volumes. And not for nothing, guys like Lorenzo White and Joe Morris had grey hair and grandchildren when BB signed them as FAs here.
Right now, Wentz plays QB for a team coming off a 7-9 record. He also has the margin of error of a talented defense with a great DC (Schwartz) keeping scoreboard helpful. Not much different than the Minnesota Vikings winning regardless of who they start at QB or even the Denver Broncos going with Trevor Siemian (a 7th round QB from Northwestern in 2015). Did anyone notice North Dakota State with a brand new starting QB beat Iowa (with a bunch of returning starters that lost in the closing seconds of the Big 10 Championship Game in 2015)? NDS also won consecutive National Championships before Wentz and they look like they can be just as good after him if the win over Iowa is any indication.
I remember back when the Chicago Bears had a good team and Rex Grossman got hurt very early on. Kyle Orton filled in as starter and won something like his first 9 or 10 starts in game management mode without turning the ball over very often. He was sporting killer good stats or anything but he won under careful game plans. Wentz has the ability to escape trouble better than Orton but he also has the ability to get injured dating back to college and as recently as 2 broken ribs in the preseason. Cleveland always tends to go through at least 2-3 QBs so what made Wentz so perfect for that? Why not gain bigger draft volumes so you can put something better around QB than Indy seems to be willing to do for Andrew Luck...
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When I wrote the post I knew it's early; three games in. My main concern is not who we DIDNT draft but who we did draft. I like Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Higging so far. No they're not going anywhere this year but can anyone expect them to?
I think by mid season we will have a better idea about the team and Hue Jackson. But I'm keeping my glass half full right now because Jackson was the best coach available.
I'm scouting College QB's.. I watched Notre Dame today, Clemson vs Louisville, Ohio St vs Rutgers, Wyoming vs Colorado, etc etc
There's a QUARTER BACK OUT THERE WITH OUR NAME ON IT Now all I have to do is pray!
DAMN THE TORPEDOES! FULL SPEED AHEAD! -
From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
Well said Gumby!
Cliff Clavin here is gonna deliver the Cliff Notes with the last paragraph of my first post in this thread:
As the influx of newcomers here establish better chem with veterans while gaining experience - a lot of the reasons we're losing close games can be corrected. Nobody wants moral victories. They want wins. Dom gummit, we're going to see it.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
as i said earlier my biggest beef is with what transpired in the draft, plain and simple.
We know. Lol You have made this point a lot.as i said earlier my biggest beef is with what transpired in the draft, plain and simple.
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From last season roster we have... 13 returning on O. 10 returning on D. 6 on IR. 1 on ST. 1 on PS. Leaving 23 new players on active roster. 9 on PS.. Little to early. But Hue is not backing down from no one & this Team has been fun to watch. FA losses go on Farmer more than SB Depot. Dansby & Schwartz bothersome. But the losses of Manhell,Krug,Gilbert,Mingo,Whitner,Hartline,Bowe. Got a good feeling that the non football people are listening to the sideline football people...
Well said Gumby!
Cliff Clavin here is gonna deliver the Cliff Notes with the last paragraph of my first post in this thread:
As the influx of newcomers here establish better chem with veterans while gaining experience - a lot of the reasons we're losing close games can be corrected. Nobody wants moral victories. They want wins. Dom gummit, we're going to see it.
Very cool as a flugelhorn plays in the distance.Well said Gumby!
Cliff Clavin here is gonna deliver the Cliff Notes with the last paragraph of my first post in this thread:
As the influx of newcomers here establish better chem with veterans while gaining experience - a lot of the reasons we're losing close games can be corrected. Nobody wants moral victories. They want wins. Dom gummit, we're going to see it.
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When I wrote the post I knew it's early; three games in. My main concern is not who we DIDNT draft but who we did draft. I like Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Higging so far. No they're not going anywhere this year but can anyone expect them to?
I think by mid season we will have a better idea about the team and Hue Jackson. But I'm keeping my glass half full right now because Jackson was the best coach available.
I'm scouting College QB's.. I watched Notre Dame today, Clemson vs Louisville, Ohio St vs Rutgers, Wyoming vs Colorado, etc etc
There's a QUARTER BACK OUT THERE WITH OUR NAME ON IT Now all I have to do is pray!
When I wrote the post I knew it's early; three games in. My main concern is not who we DIDNT draft but who we did draft. I like Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib, Higging so far. No they're not going anywhere this year but can anyone expect them to?
I think by mid season we will have a better idea about the team and Hue Jackson. But I'm keeping my glass half full right now because Jackson was the best coach available.
I'm scouting College QB's.. I watched Notre Dame today, Clemson vs Louisville, Ohio St vs Rutgers, Wyoming vs Colorado, etc etc
There's a QUARTER BACK OUT THERE WITH OUR NAME ON IT Now all I have to do is pray!
Understanding the LAST 2 coaches that REALLY wanted to come here and do a nice job left here with their heads and spirits between their legs - we should have been happy that the 1 candidate the most teams wanted to interview chose Cleveland. I'm not sure where in all this made him the bad guy that's easy to hate and root against. If Hue fails too for all those that can't wait to celebrate their told you so's - the only type of candidate that will be interested is Ken Whisenhunt while a guy like Schwartz will choose Buffalo. That sounds like 1 great big Koombaya interrupted by a bunch of hiccups and stuttering.
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My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
My opinion is that I am too impatient to deal with a 3-5 year plan. I get that the Browns will not do anything this year likely except to show improvement.....but next year I expect them to be playoff contenders.
Me too my man! I want us winning games every freakin Sunday; and the last 2 had us watching until the very end thinking we could do so. In fact, the last one went into overtime if memory serves me right. Having said all that, I was informed in this thread we're tanking the season which means that Hue and our front office was thrilled this team lost the last 2 weeks. Did either of our last 2 games look like this team or it's staff wanted to lose?
Now consider what's about to come out in the draft at QB in 2017 in terms of can't miss football messiah. How does one conclude a front office full of Harvard intellect is all gung ho for 0-16 football this year so it can shit in the face of Joe Thomas and the 1 Head Coach that had 4 or 5 teams that wanted to interview him beside Cleveland. Make sense? It shouldn't.
Just imagine the interview and it would look like a conversation between Billy Crystal and Robert DeNiro in the movie Analyze This.
Jimmy: Do you like to win?
Hue: Yes.
Jimmy: No you don't. Do you want to lose every game this year?
Hue: No.
Jimmy: Yes you do. Are you still interested in the job here?
Hue: No.
Jimmy: Yes you are. Now go remind Joe Thomas why he needs to stay here with the smile I just painted on your face.
Hue: Okay Gepetto. Anything else?
Jimmy: Yeah, make sure the new kicker hurts his knee late in the week before the Miami game. I owe some money to the Parkey family and he'll help us keep the 0-16 dream alive...
Hue: It'll be done with smiles on our faces.
Each week, we look like we're getting closer to winning. To be honest, we only had a 3 point deficit to Philly in the 3rd quarter who beat Ben Rapen's Pittsburgh Stee-roids by a much bigger margin. Philly won 9 or 10 games in 2014 and 7 games in 2015 so it wasn't like they sucked before adding Schwartz and an offensive mindset that didn't choose to no huddle away their time of possession. End result: not only did they improve their thinking on both sides of the ball - their defense actually rested their legs and oxygen supplies Win-win.
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I like reading your post flugelhorn! Awesome!
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Flugs we have a secret weapon called the FO whisperer. She insures we lose every close game this season.
Peanuts strip originally published on October 10, 1982 -
There's a positive article about the Browns on nflspinzone.com by Dan Smelzer
Led by new front office and coaching staff, the Cleveland Browns are the one team in the league who are clearly undergoing a deep rebuilding process. They built their team around young players and future draft capital, knowing that they would not be Super Bowl contenders in the 2016 NFL season.
This was a smart move by Cleveland. Instead of trying their best to go 7-9 or 8-8, the Browns are better off letting the bottom drop out of this team. They need more young, impact players, and this complete rebuild is the best way to make that happen.
In my eyes, other NFL teams should be following suit and would be wise to start doing so sooner rather than later. In-season trading is rare in the NFL, but it could be a great opportunity for these franchises to kick-start a much-needed rebuild
The nflspinzone.com also had another article called "The Transformation Of Terrelle Pryor. It's a positive
account of how he's turned it around since his Ohio State Days and suspension which led him to the NFL
GO BROWNS
Does anyone agree that this rebuild is more important than going 7-9 every year? And do you think Hue will finally get Cleveland competitive again?
In my eyes, other NFL teams should be following suit and would be wise to start doing so sooner rather than later. In-season trading is rare in the NFL, but it could be a great opportunity for these franchises to kick-start a much-needed rebuild
nflspinzone?.....quality stuff, right there....
Only problem with stripping a team of the little talent it has, in an effort to rebuild, is that it ISNT a proven method or one that teams have used to suceed......By removing your good players, that increases the # of players needed to succeed, which makes the climb longer and harder.....I just cant agree with the methods.....even if improvement shows, it's still gonna be less than it could have been....
Example....had they simply signed a few key players(O Line comes to mind) we may not be 0-3 right now....eh?
Not sure on this. I really didn't know that we were in a 7-9 rut.
HA!.....aint that the truth.....
Jury is out for the long run, but there were mistakes in the draft and in retention. If those are owned up to and rectified, then there is a chance of an eventual playoff team by year 3-4. But if we have a shot at a true impact player who is overall BPA and in a position of primary need, but cash him in for more lesser players again, then throw the bums out.
Right....trading and releasing known talent and trading down to collect a shit ton of middle and late picks is not the way to get "impact" players.....period
They may hit on one or two(if they're lucky), but that wont be the difference...
What is Your Opinion On Hue & The Browns Rebuild
Not enough data yet. Too early to tell.
Dont need time or data to have an opinion of what you're seeing....it's just about how you feel at this point....
I always have an opinion......but usually wait to draw conclusions....
^ this!!!
i agree it's too early. i know my stance here seems pretty anti-hue but it's more anti-FO than anything.
Im with you there......not a fan of the FO.....(at all).....Hue seems ok and there is a lot I do like about him(mostly his staff).... but I see a number of troubling things right out of the gate, which concern me....and the fact that so many instantly declared him a genius and our savior is maddening.....if he was such an offensive genius, then why has he been a position coach for 13 out of 16 seasons???....and a DB and special teams coach just a couple years ago???.....coachiung DB's seems like a waste of offensive genius and QB godliness, eh?
Twice we have lost players to injury, only to declare the back up a better player.....examples would be when RGIII went down and we ALL were happy to see McCown become the starter....why???....cause he was the better player in camp AND on the field......same EXACT thing with Erving going down and the team improving because of it.....so my question is WHY are we starting shittier players than we have on the bench(Shobert fits the mold too)....because those are samples of stubborn and poor coaching choices....
And why do we pass so much, when we lead the league in rushing?.....another head scratcher.....
FO needs to step up THIS YEAR and do something in free agency that at least makes it seem like they are actually trying to win....
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again, some players didn't want to stay on the losing merrygoround.
so they wanted to go elsewhere. Do we really need to cry over spilt milk forever and
27 Sundays?
Some players were not a fit. If you keep adding a quart of honey to a gallon of chickencrap,
you think it's ever going to be a good thing for a change?
You have to keep the parts of the team that fit, and draft and sign other players that fit.
And by "fit", it's about work ethic/love for the game/football iq/character/ THEN talent for the position.
And yes, it's a younger team, had injuries, and they still nearly beat miami and the redskins.
but they have been running the ball, passing, making big plays on both sides of the ball..
and they leave it all out on the field.
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Hue and the new front office are doing a fine job.
The Browns needed an attitude change...the moaners and deadweight were cut or released.
The Browns needed more quality depth...14 draft picks later the depth is of higher quality than the past several seasons.
The Browns used to be a chore to watch...every week this season has been engaging and exciting.
This team is on the right path. What this year's spate of injuries has told us is that you can never have enough quality depth. I expect the Browns to continue to build through the draft for this purpose and, more specifically, invest heavily in players that can get to the quarterback - the glaring weakness in this rebuild. Watch out for a Joe Thomas trade for a 1st and a pass rusher...
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First it might be a bit early to judge Hue on almost anything quite yet especially factoring in the unpredictable things like injuries and bonehead players.
Just look at the 1999-present coaches, plans and their and the FO at the time:
Hue Jackson NFL 2016- 0-4* (0.00) *updated week 4
Mike Pettine NFL 2014-15 10-22-0 (0.313)
Rob Chudzinski NFL 2013 4-12-0 (0.250)
Pat Shurmur NFL 2011-12 9-23-0 (0.281)
Eric Mangini NFL 2009-10 10-22-0 (0.3125)
Romeo Crennel NFL 2005-08 24-40-0 (0.375)
Terry Robiskie NFL 2004* 1-4-0 (0.200)
Butch Davis NFL 2001-04 24-35-0 (0.407) 0-1-0 (0.000) 24-36-0 (0.400) <--- the most successful since '99?
Chris Palmer NFL 1999-2000 5-27-0 (0.156)
So what will be the yardstick measurements and timetable for Hue? I hope we're not down to using a stopwatch like they use for 40 yard dash times.....yet.
First it might be a bit early to judge Hue on almost anything quite yet especially factoring in the unpredictable things like injuries and bonehead players.
Just look at the 1999-present coaches, plans and their and the FO at the time:
Hue Jackson NFL 2016- 0-4* (0.00) *updated week 4
Mike Pettine NFL 2014-15 10-22-0 (0.313)
Rob Chudzinski NFL 2013 4-12-0 (0.250)
Pat Shurmur NFL 2011-12 9-23-0 (0.281)
Eric Mangini NFL 2009-10 10-22-0 (0.3125)
Romeo Crennel NFL 2005-08 24-40-0 (0.375)
Terry Robiskie NFL 2004* 1-4-0 (0.200) Butch Davis NFL 2001-04 24-35-0 (0.407) 0-1-0 (0.000) 24-36-0 (0.400) <--- the most successful since '99?
Chris Palmer NFL 1999-2000 5-27-0 (0.156)
So what will be the yardstick measurements and timetable for Hue? I hope we're not down to using a stopwatch like they use for 40 yard dash times......
Wow Hue and the BROWNS are just a handful of bonehead or just stupid plays from maybe a 3-1 start and everybody...well maybe many calling him a miracle worker. Obviously realistically this team will need a GOOD draft or two to right this ship.
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The Browns can make a lot of big plays, on both sides of the ball.
That is a huge change from the past. They will start winning, but it's
tough with injuries, youth, and young player mistakes.
Once and for all, since 99, the Browns are on their way to being a genuine team
that is competitive, exciting to watch. And they will start winning. Look at the last
two games.
Things are headed in an excellent direction.
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The Browns can make a lot of big plays, on both sides of the ball.
That is a huge change from the past. They will start winning, but it's
tough with injuries, youth, and young player mistakes.
Once and for all, since 99, the Browns are on their way to being a genuine team
that is competitive, exciting to watch. And they will start winning. Look at the last
two games.
Things are headed in an excellent direction.
The Browns can make a lot of big plays, on both sides of the ball.
That is a huge change from the past. They will start winning, but it's
tough with injuries, youth, and young player mistakes.
Once and for all, since 99, the Browns are on their way to being a genuine team
that is competitive, exciting to watch. And they will start winning. Look at the last
two games.
Things are headed in an excellent direction.
+100000
Wow, a post that could've come straight out of my finger tips........ It's pretty damn rare on this forum these days.
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again, some players didn't want to stay on the losing merrygoround.
so they wanted to go elsewhere. Do we really need to cry over spilt milk forever and
27 Sundays?
Some players were not a fit. If you keep adding a quart of honey to a gallon of chickencrap,
you think it's ever going to be a good thing for a change?
You have to keep the parts of the team that fit, and draft and sign other players that fit.
And by "fit", it's about work ethic/love for the game/football iq/character/ THEN talent for the position.
And yes, it's a younger team, had injuries, and they still nearly beat miami and the redskins.
but they have been running the ball, passing, making big plays on both sides of the ball..
and they leave it all out on the field.
again, some players didn't want to stay on the losing merrygoround.
so they wanted to go elsewhere. Do we really need to cry over spilt milk forever and
27 Sundays?
Some players were not a fit. If you keep adding a quart of honey to a gallon of chickencrap,
you think it's ever going to be a good thing for a change?
Im not talking about old players.....read what I said...
Im talking about guys like Schobert starting over Orchard....or RGIII starting ahead of McCown.....or Erving playing when we clearly had better options....not old stuff....right now stuff...
THATS why, when these guys have gotten hurt, we've gotten better....cause some of the wrong guys have been playing all along ....
Cal...the question was what we thought of Hue, so is answering honestly considered whining over spilt milk...?
Speaking of Hue....I also wonder why he doesnt run his best player....or stick with the hot hand.....in fact, today, the whole football world is asking the same thing.....offense 101....stick with the hot hand....
We have a guy(Crow), who is currently the top runner in the league and coach only gives him the ball 15 times.....and instead, goes with his third or forth back in a critical situation, when your hot back has only 12 carries....terrible decision making and use of your limited talent...
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