Who takes the fall?
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Again... there's no fall. But that is not to say that there will not be changes among the assistant coaches.
There will be better coaching talent caught up in the off-season shuffle, and some of that will see what we are doing and climb on board.
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@syd said:
hint hint just don't tell him to die or you will get a warning nuff said
No need to warn war... he's not an idiot.
And, yes, I just called you an idiot. In under 200 posts you managed to trigger one of the two or three tripwires here that will get you a warning.
I'm not sure you have the temperament to make it to 500, but the jury is still out.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Assistant coaches don't play the game. You can't coach lack of talent.
This team has the fewest NFL-caliber players of anyone in the league.. firing any level of coach won't make up for terrible drafting in prior years.
The only personnel group where we have a decent player -- let alone all-pro -- is OL, where Bitonio and Thomas and arguably Greco would start for (almost) every team in the league.
Who else is even average? Crowell/Johnson seem nice, Pryor's a keeper.. DL are all replaceable, OLB haven't flashed yet, ILB are already terrible, DB are overpaid and underperforming.
Outside of that, everything is the coach's fault!
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We now have tied the worst start for the browns since 1999. Coaching needs to be held as accountable as our players should be. if we go ONE more loss it will be the worst in franchise history. Firing a HC is generally a bad idea but if the shoe fits for WORST OF ALL TIME then its tough luck next man up.
the ravens just fired their OC for the second time in 4 years mid season. You guys act like firing a coach is automatic 2-3 years rebuilding and sucking and thats not always the case. I argue that keeping the WRONG coach is as detrimental or MORE SO than firing to oftenWe now have tied the worst start for the browns since 1999. Coaching needs to be held as accountable as our players should be. if we go ONE more loss it will be the worst in franchise history. Firing a HC is generally a bad idea but if the shoe fits for WORST OF ALL TIME then its tough luck next man up.
the ravens just fired their OC for the second time in 4 years mid season. You guys act like firing a coach is automatic 2-3 years rebuilding and sucking and thats not always the case. I argue that keeping the WRONG coach is as detrimental or MORE SO than firing to often
This time- patience pal. Hue looks like he knows what he's doing. Noll was 1-13 his first year, Landry was 0-11. I suppose they should have been fired too. I could make a case the current Browns roster is as talent depleted as those two teams. Repeat after me. For those who wanted the whole thing blown up- well, this is what a total blowup looks like. Please read Unsympathetic's post. I can only add Haden to the list. There's a couple promising D rookies too.
Assistant coaches don't play the game. You can't coach lack of talent.
This team has the fewest NFL-caliber players of anyone in the league.. firing any level of coach won't make up for terrible drafting in prior years.
The only personnel group where we have a decent player -- let alone all-pro -- is OL, where Bitonio and Thomas and arguably Greco would start for (almost) every team in the league.
Who else is even average? Crowell/Johnson seem nice, Pryor's a keeper.. DL are all replaceable, OLB haven't flashed yet, ILB are already terrible, DB are overpaid and underperforming.
Outside of that, everything is the coach's fault!
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I can coach exactly as well as our current coaches have and lead the browns to an 0 and 9 start. if we end up going 0-20 which i don't think we will but it's possible we do. SOMEONE will be let go and it COULD be Hue Jackson. That is depending on who is available and more importantly wants to come in with this experimental FO. It wont likely be hue because of the advances on offense and energy we have seen this year good rushing offense and relatively safe offensive play. Playcalling has been a bit erratic and the silly line movements we do are just that but all in all on the O side we've seen some improvement. Defensively we have regressed in nearly every category and it's just not excusable anymore.
As far as talent goes good coaching should show the strengths of the talent we do have even if it is lacking overall. Parity in the NFL as a whole is much much closer than you may realize. Also regarding talent the 1999 browns had only players that were considered freely expendable and the rookies we drafted that year... are you suggesting that the 1999 team was better than this current team?
I'm much much more inline with Tour here in thinking upgraded positional coaches as well as coordinators would do absolute wonders for this team. Look at what Al Saunders has done with our depleted WR core or maybe what Kirby or Hal Hunter have done in improving our Running game though at the expense of Pass protection it would seem
.
Maybe a new DC and his new Staff maybe a full time OC AND an full time QB coach
and maybe unfairly i am focusing on coaching what about front office? new scouting personnel? True GM? -
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I can coach exactly as well as our current coaches have and lead the browns to an 0 and 9 start. if we end up going 0-20 which i don't think we will but it's possible we do. SOMEONE will be let go and it COULD be Hue Jackson. That is depending on who is available and more importantly wants to come in with this experimental FO. It wont likely be hue because of the advances on offense and energy we have seen this year good rushing offense and relatively safe offensive play. Playcalling has been a bit erratic and the silly line movements we do are just that but all in all on the O side we've seen some improvement. Defensively we have regressed in nearly every category and it's just not excusable anymore.
As far as talent goes good coaching should show the strengths of the talent we do have even if it is lacking overall. Parity in the NFL as a whole is much much closer than you may realize. Also regarding talent the 1999 browns had only players that were considered freely expendable and the rookies we drafted that year... are you suggesting that the 1999 team was better than this current team?
I'm much much more inline with Tour here in thinking upgraded positional coaches as well as coordinators would do absolute wonders for this team. Look at what Al Saunders has done with our depleted WR core or maybe what Kirby or Hal Hunter have done in improving our Running game though at the expense of Pass protection it would seem.
Maybe a new DC and his new Staff maybe a full time OC AND an full time QB coach
and maybe unfairly i am focusing on coaching what about front office? new scouting personnel? True GM?I can coach exactly as well as our current coaches have and lead the browns to an 0 and 9 start. if we end up going 0-20 which i don't think we will but it's possible we do. SOMEONE will be let go and it COULD be Hue Jackson. That is depending on who is available and more importantly wants to come in with this experimental FO. It wont likely be hue because of the advances on offense and energy we have seen this year good rushing offense and relatively safe offensive play. Playcalling has been a bit erratic and the silly line movements we do are just that but all in all on the O side we've seen some improvement. Defensively we have regressed in nearly every category and it's just not excusable anymore.
As far as talent goes good coaching should show the strengths of the talent we do have even if it is lacking overall. Parity in the NFL as a whole is much much closer than you may realize. Also regarding talent the 1999 browns had only players that were considered freely expendable and the rookies we drafted that year... are you suggesting that the 1999 team was better than this current team?
I'm much much more inline with Tour here in thinking upgraded positional coaches as well as coordinators would do absolute wonders for this team. Look at what Al Saunders has done with our depleted WR core or maybe what Kirby or Hal Hunter have done in improving our Running game though at the expense of Pass protection it would seem
.Maybe a new DC and his new Staff maybe a full time OC AND an full time QB coach
Horton is a different story Been fired X3 already.
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Like a lot of guy's are saying keep the coaches and staff together. The talent and line sucks right now. I can really see them not winning at all this year. I can see them trading Haden and Thomas for more picks. Then stacking the team with players next year. I see this as a 3 to 5 year total rebuild, but I see it going in the right direction finally. Then when they look look they are close then they can spend on some high ticket free agents to fill those gaps.
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Coaching means little. Talent X experience wins.
Disagree with that. Talent can help, obviously.....but so does coaching.
Brown, Noll, Landry, Lombardi, Shula etc. made great players super, made good players great, made average players good, made below average players average....functional.
Hue is working on it.
Yes all these guys started out terribly:
Walsh
Jimmy Johnson
Noll
Landry
and don't forget 4 out of 5 losing seasons here for Belichick.
and I suspect there are others.
So...
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Some coaches are superstars. But it's mostly talent X experience.
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@syd said:
hint hint just don't tell him to die or you will get a warning nuff said
No need to warn war... he's not an idiot.
And, yes, I just called you an idiot. In under 200 posts you managed to trigger one of the two or three tripwires here that will get you a warning.
I'm not sure you have the temperament to make it to 500, but the jury is still out.
No need to warn war... he's not an idiot.
And, yes, I just called you an idiot. In under 200 posts you managed to trigger one of the two or three tripwires here that will get you a warning.
I'm not sure you have the temperament to make it to 500, but the jury is still out.
ha aha aha wow you sure do make it easy
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No need to warn war... he's not an idiot.
And, yes, I just called you an idiot. In under 200 posts you managed to trigger one of the two or three tripwires here that will get you a warning.
I'm not sure you have the temperament to make it to 500, but the jury is still out.
ha aha aha wow you sure do make it easy
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oh, syd.... syd... syd... Not only are you not under my skin, you are not even a pimple on my ass.
Ask around... folks here know what it looks like when someone gets under my skin.
Hint: It does not look like the above.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
So I'll presume anyone here that can say they are able to coach better is either a former or active coach at any level of position group for that matter...?
No? Nobody?
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So coaches cannot transfer their experience into the talented? I call bullshit...
To a degree. But if you said in the spring "I'll give you Myles Garrett in the draft and you can give him a playbook but you're not allowed to coach him. Ever. OR I'll give you Joe 3 star 2nd team All-PAC 12 DE who is an ok player with about a 5th round grade and you can coach him all you want," I think I know where most coaches are going.
This is the NFL. These guys have the general ideas on technique. You have nuance to learn, but with bad talent, nuance is just lipstick on a pig.
As Alabama strength coach Scott Cochran says: "These guys are already Ferraris. We just put spinners on them."
Urban Meyer's also said something like "I'm always amused when guys brag on themselves like it's not their players that do all the work. Guy'/ bragging about his zone scheme. Yeah, lemme give you a bunch of s*** players and let's see how good your zone scheme looks then."
And those are college coaches. Even more true in the NFL.
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War the talent parity in the nfl isn't anywhere near as unbalanced as it is in college.
Think about the math involved 1696 slots. About 400 rookies brought in from draft and udfa. More than 13000 college players in the fbs most will never play pro ball.
Everybody runs good times, Everybody is a top athlete, Everybody is physically superior. They've all been doing this for longer than they have been alive. Pure College Talent doesn't mean SHIT in the nfl without work ethic and character to back it up. Cameron Wake was undrafted who was projected at round 5. Vs Courtney Brown. I think i'll take the kid that was COACHABLE.
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Work ethic and character factor into talent for the sake of this discussion.
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