2017 Draft: Likely Record breaking number of picks
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Draft pick winners are based on throwing enough shit against the wall.. You never know who is going to be a good pick for the NFL.. Brady is a perfect example as COULD BE Kessler..
At this point there is no single person coming out of college next year that is a no-brainer in my opinion. So it comes down to doing good due diligence and hope that you hit on those later 1st and 2nd round picks.. With are crap load of later 4th and 5th rounders, that gives us a lot of room to fill the practice squad and maybe find that diamond in the rough..
Combine that with the fact that we are NUMBER ONE in money under the Salary Cap at nearly 48 Million Dollars.. That gives us ammunition to go after play makers that are proven gamers...
Anyone who expected this year to be anything but a complete and utter bust, was just being stupid....
To be honest I am extremely happy with the progress our team is making.. We are losing, but losing well if that makes any sense.. Our play calling is better and with the exception of a few games, we were in it to the literal end of the game...
But we aren't 1 or 2 players away from putting together a great team or even a good team. We need to hit on more than a few draft picks over the next two seasons.. And the only way that is going to happen is with lots of picks.... The truth is that long term good/great teams build through the draft.. They consistently find those late 1st/2nd round picks that fit their scheme and get lucky in the later round picks. And by luck I mean getting chances... We have a crap load of late round picks coming to us this up coming year, and the only way you get lucky is if you take as many picks as you can get....
For the next two years we are setup to get a LOT of chances at finding those picks that come through.. For the next two years we can get TWO first round picks and possibly 2 or 3 - 2nd round picks. PLUS a lot of money in the bank to go after proven hopefully younger players and maybe a few seasoned vets to show the youngsters the ropes...
Even in the face of a 0-6 season that likely won't get much better, I feel the most optimistic about this team since they re-entered the league in 1999....
I feel good enough our coaching staff(but jury is still) out to give them the two more years after this one, to try and set us on a solid path towards being contenders.
BobPOUND!
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Bobpound-and what good does it do to load up on another group of non-star players just so we can once again stay a side of the road team, i.e. non-playoff? When you have 4 players already in the top 35 or so, you fill up with the great ones if you ever want to change a team into something worth watching with real rewards instead of maybe rewards at a time and date somewhere in the distant future. If you look at the stands for home games, that has to change into a supportive atmosphere for real Browns fans and their team instead of another "home" game for opponents.
Baylor got caught in this same loser merry-go-round for almost 3 decades with an antiquated stadium/facilities and the inability to attract star players. It was embarrassing to see the home fans on one side of the field and the opponents taking the rest of the stadium except for the end zone they kept under a tarp because they could not sell out their high school stadium. It stayed that way until Briles showed up with a new way to do everything and a commitment from Baylor to build a modern stadium on the campus instead of across the interstate where the old one was located.
Bobpound-and what good does it do to load up on another group of non-star players just so we can once again stay a side of the road team, i.e. non-playoff? When you have 4 players already in the top 35 or so, you fill up with the great ones if you ever want to change a team into something worth watching with real rewards instead of maybe rewards at a time and date somewhere in the distant future. If you look at the stands for home games, that has to change into a supportive atmosphere for real Browns fans and their team instead of another "home" game for opponents.
Baylor got caught in this same loser merry-go-round for almost 3 decades with an antiquated stadium/facilities and the inability to attract star players. It was embarrassing to see the home fans on one side of the field and the opponents taking the rest of the stadium except for the end zone they kept under a tarp because they could not sell out their high school stadium. It stayed that way until Briles showed up with a new way to do everything and a commitment from Baylor to build a modern stadium on the campus instead of across the interstate where the old one was located.
I have no problem with what we did in the 2016 draft as we had many holes to fill & got a number of contributors, maybe a couple or few MAJOR contributors.
This next draft, it appears we will be in a position to go after known PLAYMAKERS early (on either side of the ball) & that's what I want to see.
Great point about the atmosphere too. Before we become consistent "winners", most fans will come to see great playermakers.....better the great ones are playing for us rather than our opposition.
Mike
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2017 will not be the year to trade for more picks. I'll make one exception. Someone offers us a 2018 first for one of our seconds.You build depth with the 4th and 5th rounders (unless you get lucky). I jokingly said to counter the O P, what good would it do you to have every pick in the 4th round? This team needs some star talent, starting with a stud pass rusher, another CB, and anyone better than.Erving.
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I swear to god if the panthers keep sucking and we somehow manage to win more games than them, and that team gets the #1 pick.....in gonna shit myself clean
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I swear to god if the panthers keep sucking and we somehow manage to win more games than them, and that team gets the #1 pick.....in gonna shit myself clean
I swear to god if the panthers keep sucking and we somehow manage to win more games than them, and that team gets the #1 pick.....in gonna shit myself clean
They'll have plenty of competition. I was surprised to see they're 1-5. But in the race to #1 (pick) the Browns are the leader in the clubhouse at 0-6.
But ahead of Carolina right now are also the 1-5 Jets suck-suck-suck, 49ers, and Bears. Regarding Chicago, Hoyer broke his arm, Cultler is still complaining about a thumb owie, so Matt Barkley is the qb going forward. I'd say it's mighty unlikely the Panthers could fail to win more games than that sorry crew.
It does follow the boom- bust cycle the Panthers have followed, and if you ask me, mighty unfair for a team one year removed from the Super Bowl to wind up with a top 15 or even 10 pick.
PS as it stands now, that first round pick we got from the Eagles is #19. Lose, suckers, lose.
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Bottom line is you have to have a front office that can draft well in round 1 and continue to draft well late into the draft (inclusive of UFAs). As "well duh" as that sounds - we're Cleveland Browns fans so we don't get any Free Space on our BINGO cards. Back in the 80s and 90s, we were finding Tackles Like Tony T-Bone Jones and Orlando Brown in the land of the undrafted when we also found a good Center in Round 1 like Steve Everitt.
When we traded up for Brady Quinn in 2007, we didn't have a first round pick in 2008. In fact, we only drafted 5 players in 2008 (where our selections didn't begin until #104 overall) with Rubin becoming our only keeper. 1 year later, we only had 4 draft picks scheduled for the 2009 draft.
Not enough of our 1st round draft picks since 99 made the Pro Bowl to put a lot of trust into round 1 just yet:
1999. Tim Couch 1st overall
2000. Courtney Brown 1st overall
2001. Gerard Warren 3rd overall
2002. William Green
2003. Jeff Faine
2004. Kellen Winslow (Traded up to #6 overall) - (1 Pro Bowl)
2005. Braylon Edwards 3rd overall - (1 Pro Bowl)
2006. Kam Wimbley
2007. Joe Thomas (9 Pro Bowls) 3rd overall & Brady Quinn (traded up to #22)
2008. None.
2009. Alex Mack - (3 Pro Bowls)
2010. Joe Haden - (2 Pro Bowls)
2011. Phil Taylor
2012. Trent Richardson (Traded up to #3 overall) & Brandon Weeden
2013. Bark Mingo
2014. Justin Gilbert (Traded back to #8 overall) & Johnny Manziel (Traded up to #22 overall)
2015. Danny Shelton & Cam Erving
2016. Corey Coleman (Traded back to #15 overall)
Out of 21 first round picks, only 5 of them made the Pro Bowl (with only 3 of them making it more than once). Now factor in how many of these guys landed on IR at least once. It took us 3 years to get 1 season out of KWII.
If we look at the 6 first round draft picks from 2011-2014, none of them are here or starting for another NFL team today or look to be any time soon. That's quite a confidence changer.
The last time we nailed 2 first round draft picks was in 1978 with Ozzie Newsome and Clay Matthews. Coincidentally, we made the playoffs more times in the 80s than any other decade. It also helps when 1st round guys can be as durable as Newsome and Matthews were.
Back when we drafted better in mid-late rounds of the draft, we could find a 2 time Pro Bowl type of Tackle like Cody Risien in round 7 (1979). SMU's Rickey Bolden in 1984. We also found a guy that started at 4 different positions on the line (Paul Farren) in round 12. We drafted East Carolina State's Earnest Byner in round 10 (equitable to a UFA like Crow today). BC's Brian Brennan in round 4. Elizabeth City State's Reggie Langhorne in round 7. Safety Thane Gash was also a 7th round pick. Felix Wright was an undrafted Safety who led the NFL in interceptions with 9 in 89. The FAs we got from the USFL like Kevin Mack, Mike Johnson, Frank Minnifield, Ice Cube and Dan Fike were better gravy than you get on Thanksgiving.
Even when we weren't doing all that good with the draft back in 1972, we found San Diego State's Brian Sipe in round 13 (who became a League MVP in 1980). It's a good thing considering we traded away HOF WR Paul Warfield to the Miami Dolphins for the right to draft Mike Phipps at #3 overall in 1970. I haven't seen too many examples in our history where trading up in round 1 of the NFL Draft for a QB has worked well for us. Lucky for us, the Supplemental Draft was a lot more generous to Cleveland with the 1st round QB thing as Bernie Kosar would land on our door step in 1985. Sipe and Kosar were fond memories back in BC (Before Cellphones)...
The biggest reason I'd rather have a big draft volume is the seemingly high volume of injuries around the league today. My Fantasy Football League feels like it turned into an extended episode of Survivor this year. The best move I made was naming my team Drink Beer...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I think we'll be trading up. We have a lot of young guys on this team and a good base. Let's shoot for some "superstars" now.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Bottom line is you have to have a front office that can draft well in round 1 and continue to draft well late into the draft (inclusive of UFAs). As "well duh" as that sounds - we're Cleveland Browns fans so we don't get any Free Space on our BINGO cards. Back in the 80s and 90s, we were finding Tackles Like Tony T-Bone Jones and Orlando Brown in the land of the undrafted when we also found a good Center in Round 1 like Steve Everitt.
When we traded up for Brady Quinn in 2007, we didn't have a first round pick in 2008. In fact, we only drafted 5 players in 2008 (where our selections didn't begin until #104 overall) with Rubin becoming our only keeper. 1 year later, we only had 4 draft picks scheduled for the 2009 draft.
Not enough of our 1st round draft picks since 99 made the Pro Bowl to put a lot of trust into round 1 just yet:
1999. Tim Couch 1st overall
2000. Courtney Brown 1st overall
2001. Gerard Warren 3rd overall
2002. William Green
2003. Jeff Faine
2004. Kellen Winslow (Traded up to #6 overall) - (1 Pro Bowl)
2005. Braylon Edwards 3rd overall - (1 Pro Bowl)
2006. Kam Wimbley
2007. Joe Thomas (9 Pro Bowls) 3rd overall & Brady Quinn (traded up to #22)
2008. None.
2009. Alex Mack - (3 Pro Bowls)
2010. Joe Haden - (2 Pro Bowls)
2011. Phil Taylor
2012. Trent Richardson (Traded up to #3 overall) & Brandon Weeden
2013. Bark Mingo
2014. Justin Gilbert (Traded back to #8 overall) & Johnny Manziel (Traded up to #22 overall)
2015. Danny Shelton & Cam Erving
2016. Corey Coleman (Traded back to #15 overall)
Out of 21 first round picks, only 5 of them made the Pro Bowl (with only 3 of them making it more than once). Now factor in how many of these guys landed on IR at least once. It took us 3 years to get 1 season out of KWII.
If we look at the 6 first round draft picks from 2011-2014, none of them are here or starting for another NFL team today or look to be any time soon. That's quite a confidence changer.
The last time we nailed 2 first round draft picks was in 1978 with Ozzie Newsome and Clay Matthews. Coincidentally, we made the playoffs more times in the 80s than any other decade. It also helps when 1st round guys can be as durable as Newsome and Matthews were.
Back when we drafted better in mid-late rounds of the draft, we could find a 2 time Pro Bowl type of Tackle like Cody Risien in round 7 (1979). SMU's Rickey Bolden in 1984. We also found a guy that started at 4 different positions on the line (Paul Farren) in round 12. We drafted East Carolina State's Earnest Byner in round 10 (equitable to a UFA like Crow today). BC's Brian Brennan in round 4. Elizabeth City State's Reggie Langhorne in round 7. Safety Thane Gash was also a 7th round pick. Felix Wright was an undrafted Safety who led the NFL in interceptions with 9 in 89. The FAs we got from the USFL like Kevin Mack, Mike Johnson, Frank Minnifield, Ice Cube and Dan Fike were better gravy than you get on Thanksgiving.
Even when we weren't doing all that good with the draft back in 1972, we found San Diego State's Brian Sipe in round 13 (who became a League MVP in 1980). It's a good thing considering we traded away HOF WR Paul Warfield to the Miami Dolphins for the right to draft Mike Phipps at #3 overall in 1970. I haven't seen too many examples in our history where trading up in round 1 of the NFL Draft for a QB has worked well for us. Lucky for us, the Supplemental Draft was a lot more generous to Cleveland with the 1st round QB thing as Bernie Kosar would land on our door step in 1985. Sipe and Kosar were fond memories back in BC (Before Cellphones)...
The biggest reason I'd rather have a big draft volume is the seemingly high volume of injuries around the league today. My Fantasy Football League feels like it turned into an extended episode of Survivor this year. The best move I made was naming my team Drink Beer...
Bottom line is you have to have a front office that can draft well in round 1 and continue to draft well late into the draft (inclusive of UFAs). As "well duh" as that sounds - we're Cleveland Browns fans so we don't get any Free Space on our BINGO cards. Back in the 80s and 90s, we were finding Tackles Like Tony T-Bone Jones and Orlando Brown in the land of the undrafted when we also found a good Center in Round 1 like Steve Everitt.
Only one point Tom. The thing that really hurts about the Quinn pick is the first rounder we gave Dallas for that bust would have equaled a chance at 3 studly running backs in 2008 if we had been smart enough to draft them. I'll let you look up who was still on the board.
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I think we'll be trading up. We have a lot of young guys on this team and a good base. Let's shoot for some "superstars" now.
I think we'll be trading up. We have a lot of young guys on this team and a good base. Let's shoot for some "superstars" now.
When you think about it, we might already be drafting first in every round with a pretty hefty volume. I'm never opposed to drafting a superstar. Having said that, I've seen Courtney Brown and Trent Richardson labelled "can't miss" or "terrific pick" by a lot of draft analysts. The story was never as wonderful as the book cover. Inevitably someone reading this is wondering if I understand Courtney Brown got injured a couple times. Yes, I do and that's the story of our luck with the draft so I'm not going to be one that has been trained and confident to like putting all our marbles into 1 Superstar approaches or decreasing our picks in order to do so. I'm not sure we ever needed to do that for Winslow when we could have just settled for Ben Roethlisberger without losing another draft pick to select him.
We have examples of trading up and trading back that ended up backfiring. Why? The people doing our drafting weren't very good at it.
When we were closer to full strength this year, we looked like we improved at running the ball and defending the run. Depth looks to be the biggest issue there. The seemingly fine solution to Erving at Center is on IR with Bitonio right now unfortunately. I'm guessing and hoping we're going to go all in on improving our pass defense. We'll see...
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So, with all these pix, you would think we can get at least 2 playmakers and a bit of depth. Now if that doesn't happen....can we lynch Hasslam then? He is the only common thread in the last 4 double digit loss seasons.
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I see as this:
In the past, when the Browns DID draft terrific players, those terrific players fit the criteria that
the Browns coaches/FO's criteria.
The failures strongly tend to NOT fit. All too often - the bad mistakes were poor character, didn't
really love the game, not football smart, poor work ethic, great physical talent/poor locker room presence...
not a team player... pick one of several of the bad qualities, and look at jm, gordon, richardson, gilbert...
etc etc etc.
The Browns now would NEVER have drafted these players. NOw, the Browns have a complete list of
qualities they want their players to have in the draft OR fa.
Before, it was more combine performance and college highlights. Anywhere in the top ten, I don't see the Browns
trading up in this draft. How dumb would it have been, for an NFL team to trade up to the top of the draft,
to get superstar Trent Richardson? Superstar Joey Bosa has 6 tackles and 2 sacks in three games.
Cam Johnson, a 7th round pick of the niners, in his third year, in 3 games with the Browns.... has 8 sacks
and 2 sacks.
It isn't much a matter of drafting high, it's all about drafting the right guys. If the only right guy for you is goingto go higher,
using the Browns current-comprehensive-criteria....then you trade up to get him, if it's cost-effective.
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2012. Trent Richardson (Traded up to #3 overall) & Brandon Weeden
2013. Bark Mingo
2014. Justin Gilbert (Traded back to #8 overall) & Johnny Manziel (Traded up to #22 overall)
2015. Danny Shelton & Cam Erving
Ugh
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and can we stop with the tom brady example? that was a fluke, plain and simple. i think FOs have adjusted their scouting and analysis since that fluke to make brady at a 3rd rounder in today's market.
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Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus.
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Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus.
Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus.
...funny stuff!
In the draft sweepstakes, the Jets, Chargers & Buc's got a win leaving us with just the Bears, Panthers & 49'ers filling our mirrors at one game back.
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Well, lets get some depth, and for christ sake, some damn playmakers for a change.
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Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus.
Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus.
LOL, almost spewed my drink on that one....
...funny stuff!
In the draft sweepstakes, the Jets, Chargers & Buc's got a win leaving us with just the Bears, Panthers & 49'ers filling our mirrors at one game back.
I predict the Bears and 49ers will be the serious competition. But not if we lose out..... Will the Lions pop the champagne if we win one? Right now the losing streak stands at 10, would be 18 if we hadn't beaten the 49ers. Tampa's 26 in a row would be in sight.
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Right now I say use the first 5 or 6 picks on QBs. Then use the rest on the O line. Fuck the D, they suck anyway.
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Hey! We might get enough picks to fill a short bus.
LOL, almost spewed my drink on that one....
...funny stuff!
In the draft sweepstakes, the Jets, Chargers & Buc's got a win leaving us with just the Bears, Panthers & 49'ers filling our mirrors at one game back.
I predict the Bears and 49ers will be the serious competition. But not if we lose out..... Will the Lions pop the champagne if we win one? Right now the losing streak stands at 10, would be 18 if we hadn't beaten the 49ers. Tampa's 26 in a row would be in sight.
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