I HATE RAY HORTON
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If the Browns draft him he will come. Everything I have seen shows he is a man of high character and he won't duck a team that needs him badly. And he won't bitch about it like a certain Ohio player did last year. He's been playing on a wheel that isn't back to 100% from a cheap shot by Arkansas at his lower legs, "because my team needs me there."
Im not that impressed with garrett. He seems underpiwered to me and makes his way going around college tackles cause if they get their hands on him he disappears. Thats not what i want out of our 1st pick....a guy thats at leadt 2-3 years away from nfl levels of power. I mean look at ogbah and nassib who are much bigger than him, they need another year or two in the weight room before they're at the elite level we need.
Im not that impressed with garrett. He seems underpiwered to me and makes his way going around college tackles cause if they get their hands on him he disappears. Thats not what i want out of our 1st pick....a guy thats at leadt 2-3 years away from nfl levels of power. I mean look at ogbah and nassib who are much bigger than him, they need another year or two in the weight room before they're at the elite level we need.
You are aware he is playing with a lingering high ankle sprain and gets double teamed and schemed for every play? And he is 6'5 270 and far faster/quicker than those other two. Judge after the combine.
How about a little power as he pushes Tenn. LT back into the QB causing an early throw for an int. at the END of the 2nd overtime after a full game plus 1/2 hour of fighting through mostly double teams. He said after the game he was playing at about 65-70% because of the injury. I think the pros know more about him than anyone here and that is why he is considered the best player in the 2017 draft.
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I've been reading in more than one place how Garrett is a better prospect than Clowney was, who was considered a 'once in a generation' talent (though really, once in a generation, the same generation as Watt, Donald, and Mack?).
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You're a newcomer. Most of us have been suffering through this shit for decades.
I've been suffering through different shit. But I do understand where you're coming from.
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Nobody like Stoke on Trent.
Are you saying nobody likes them....or there is nobody like them.
Aren't they essentially the Chicago Cubs of English soccer?
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Ray Horton is a good man. You're just jealous of him because he doesn't drive pieces of shit cars like your whole family does.
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Are you saying nobody likes them....or there is nobody like them.
Aren't they essentially the Chicago Cubs of English soccer?
Oh I see what you mean. The team is just called Stoke, FYI. And generally, nobody likes Stoke.
Given the hierarchical structure and multiple trophy format of soccer in the UK (and generally world-wide) it's difficult to say that any team is like the cubs. For example, I'm an Aston Villa fan, for my sins, and they haven't won the top division championship since 1981, so 35 years, but there have been various other trophies in the years since then. Most of that time though we've been in the top division. Compare with a team like, say, Huddersfield, who last won the league in 1926, and have been mostly outside of the top division. And further down, there are teams that have been in existence for a hundred years or more and have never won a thing.
So in short, it's difficult to draw direct comparisons.
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Are you saying nobody likes them....or there is nobody like them.
Aren't they essentially the Chicago Cubs of English soccer?
Oh I see what you mean. The team is just called Stoke, FYI. And generally, nobody likes Stoke.
Given the hierarchical structure and multiple trophy format of soccer in the UK (and generally world-wide) it's difficult to say that any team is like the cubs. For example, I'm an Aston Villa fan, for my sins, and they haven't won the top division championship since 1981, so 35 years, but there have been various other trophies in the years since then. Most of that time though we've been in the top division. Compare with a team like, say, Huddersfield, who last won the league in 1926, and have been mostly outside of the top division. And further down, there are teams that have been in existence for a hundred years or more and have never won a thing.
So in short, it's difficult to draw direct comparisons.
Oh I see what you mean. The team is just called Stoke, FYI. And generally, nobody likes Stoke.
Given the hierarchical structure and multiple trophy format of soccer in the UK (and generally world-wide) it's difficult to say that any team is like the cubs. For example, I'm an Aston Villa fan, for my sins, and they haven't won the top division championship since 1981, so 35 years, but there have been various other trophies in the years since then. Most of that time though we've been in the top division. Compare with a team like, say, Huddersfield, who last won the league in 1926, and have been mostly outside of the top division. And further down, there are teams that have been in existence for a hundred years or more and have never won a thing.
So in short, it's difficult to draw direct comparisons.
OK, right. Because of the "relegation" thing? To draw a comparison...you are saying that say the Cubs could have been at some point "sent down" to play in the "minor leagues"...and could have won a title in the minor leagues....but that would not count as a real Top league title.
We have a bit of that here: e.g.....the Browns and 49ers once played in the AAFC. And there are some that dismiss the titles won by the Browns in that league...with the mistaken belief that it was an inferior league. (It in fact was not....it had better attendance, paid its players more money, had black players when the NFL didn't....and its champion wiped out the NFL champion the first time they played. The AAFC went under because of lack of competition. A similar thing could be said about the AFL. Many NFL people thought the AFL was inferior...a minor league. But the structure of the NFL today reflects the merger of the two league, and Joe Namath's victory in SBIII disavowed people of the notion that the AFL was inferior.
Similar things have happened in both hocky and basketball. There was the ABA and the NBA., and the NHL and the WHA. Again, here, mergers were conducted to bring teams from the so called "inferior" leagues into the fold.
Your system is more like baseball here where we have AAA level leagues, AA level and A level. Except there is no transiting among levels as there may be there. E.g. No matter how many AAA championships say the Louisville or Columbus teams win, they will never replace a very bad team that is a major league team. Milwaukee can lose 110 games....but not be replaced by the minor league's best team.
Of course, here also we have the situation that a city may be minor league only in one sport, but major league in another.
Take Indianapolis. It has major league teams in football and basketball.....but its baseball and hockey teams are minor league.
In fact, Cleveland has 3 major league teams in football, baseball, and basketball....but a minor league hockey team. (but, it just so happens that the Cleveland minor league hockey team plays in a nicer, bigger facility that the "major league club" with which it is associated.
But....we can say this about that: that Cleveland hockey team won the Minor league championship....the AHL (American Hockey League) (and its major league affiliate also won the NHL title).
If the Indians win...it will actually be the third championship for a sports team in town this year.
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Im not that impressed with garrett. He seems underpiwered to me and makes his way going around college tackles cause if they get their hands on him he disappears. Thats not what i want out of our 1st pick....a guy thats at leadt 2-3 years away from nfl levels of power. I mean look at ogbah and nassib who are much bigger than him, they need another year or two in the weight room before they're at the elite level we need.
You are aware he is playing with a lingering high ankle sprain and gets double teamed and schemed for every play? And he is 6'5 270 and far faster/quicker than those other two. Judge after the combine.
How about a little power as he pushes Tenn. LT back into the QB causing an early throw for an int. at the END of the 2nd overtime after a full game plus 1/2 hour of fighting through mostly double teams. He said after the game he was playing at about 65-70% because of the injury. I think the pros know more about him than anyone here and that is why he is considered the best player in the 2017 draft.
You are aware he is playing with a lingering high ankle sprain and gets double teamed and schemed for every play? And he is 6'5 270 and far faster/quicker than those other two. Judge after the combine.
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No i was not aware he was playing injured. He lookef fast against bama though, but didnr look no 270 though. If bamas ol got a hold of him he let his arms get crumpled. Not sure if thats technique or lack of strength. Ill withhold judgement for now but from little ive seen he wiuldnt be on my radar righ now if i worked for the browns fo. Moreso because we already invested two picks at that pisition last year and we have such glaring needs elsewhere, like OL. Id like to see what we have in nassib and ogbah before we use another high pick on that position.
Next year qb and ol need to take precedent.
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You are aware he is playing with a lingering high ankle sprain and gets double teamed and schemed for every play? And he is 6'5 270 and far faster/quicker than those other two. Judge after the combine.
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No i was not aware he was playing injured. He lookef fast against bama though, but didnr look no 270 though. If bamas ol got a hold of him he let his arms get crumpled. Not sure if thats technique or lack of strength. Ill withhold judgement for now but from little ive seen he wiuldnt be on my radar righ now if i worked for the browns fo. Moreso because we already invested two picks at that pisition last year and we have such glaring needs elsewhere, like OL. Id like to see what we have in nassib and ogbah before we use another high pick on that position.
Next year qb and ol need to take precedent.
No i was not aware he was playing injured. He lookef fast against bama though, but didnr look no 270 though. If bamas ol got a hold of him he let his arms get crumpled. Not sure if thats technique or lack of strength. Ill withhold judgement for now but from little ive seen he wiuldnt be on my radar righ now if i worked for the browns fo. Moreso because we already invested two picks at that pisition last year and we have such glaring needs elsewhere, like OL. Id like to see what we have in nassib and ogbah before we use another high pick on that position.
Next year qb and ol need to take precedent.
I generally disagree with QB and OL taking precedent. Obviously it's contingent on this year, but we need to see what Coleman can do at right tackle, and Reiter looked excellent at center by all accounts. Not to say we're set there, but those two guys could be fine. QB is done to death, everyone knows the deal. Point being, we have guys who can grow in to those positions and by next year become solid players.
In the secondary, however, we have a couple of decent strong safeties, an often injured former pro bowl CB on a bloated contract, and that's about it. Sure, if Haden is playing 16 games then that's one side sorted, but even so, we still are left with Jamar Taylor starting opposite (Williams will be cut probably) and some undrafted rookies. Poyer has done nothing of note at free safety.
At edge rusher, we invested a relatively high pick in Ogbah, but starting across from him is fourth rounder, Joe Schobert, who has 12 tackles and no sacks through seven games. Nassib is playing DE and as much as you (and others including me to a degree) want to see a switch to a 4-3 it won't be happening. Nassib will continue to play the 5-tech, Shelton the nose, and hopefully we can pick someone up to replace Meder.
Just my 2c of course, everything is subjective.
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Yeah if there was a jalen ramsey out there perhaps. But i have zero confidence in almost our entire o line and this has been going on for years. Im in no mood anymore for "well lets wait to see how this late rounder or udfa pans out". They never do. Our two best o lineman are 1st and 2nd rounders.
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And our worst OL is a first rounder, while the next best, Greco, was a third rounder. Coleman was only a third rounder, not like he's a UDFA we're hoping for miracles from. He's a guy some projected to go in round two, but fell for whatever reasons and we got (in theory) decent value on. He's been injured and just coming back to playing for the first time. Give him a few games to try to do something before declaring him a bust?
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1) Our entire secondary sucks. Bad. The safeties are NOT fine - rather, we're forced to play backup-level players because we simply don't have the talent.
2) Our ILB's suck. Bad. Just stop it with the homerism.
3) Schobert isn't a starter - they play both ILB's and call Ogbah an OLB even though he's a DL lined up elsewhere. Go check the snap count stats on DBN.. Schobert played all of 3 on Sunday. So, yes, he has no stats..... because he doesn't play.
DL was dreadful this past week, but so was the entire defense. They need talent at every position, and they just don't have it yet. Nassib is a fine complementary player, but not by himself.
If the draft is QB at 1 and then nothing but D except for maybe another OL, that's fine by me.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Speaking of the offense, I was just doing a little looking at the stats for this season:
rush yards per game: 120 (8th in NFL)
pass yards per game: 228 (24th)
total ypg: 348 (16th)
rush ypc: 5.1 (2nd)
pass ypa: 6.9 (21st)
red zone efficiency 61% (12th)
points per game: 18.6 (27th)
So with reasonable yards per game, and knowing that there's only so many yards you can move before scoring, why the disparity? One final stat - drives starting inside own 20 yard line: 23/82 ~ 28% (28th in NFL).
So while it's not a clear vindication of everything on offense, it is clear that the O is capable of moving the ball, at least in fits and start, but usually has so far to go that they struggle to put points on the board. Inside the red zone, we're not terrible - 12th is pretty acceptable for the state of this team right now. The run game is boom or bust, for sure, but with some better line play should continue to be a strength. We just need to get more out of our D, and to a lesser degree, special teams.
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1) Our entire secondary sucks. Bad. The safeties are NOT fine - rather, we're forced to play backup-level players because we simply don't have the talent.
2) Our ILB's suck. Bad. Just stop it with the homerism.
3) Schobert isn't a starter - they play both ILB's and call Ogbah an OLB even though he's a DL lined up elsewhere. Go check the snap count stats on DBN.. Schobert played all of 3 on Sunday. So, yes, he has no stats..... because he doesn't play.
DL was dreadful this past week, but so was the entire defense. They need talent at every position, and they just don't have it yet. Nassib is a fine complementary player, but not by himself.
If the draft is QB at 1 and then nothing but D except for maybe another OL, that's fine by me.
1) Our entire secondary sucks. Bad. The safeties are NOT fine - rather, we're forced to play backup-level players because we simply don't have the talent.
Campbell and Kindred have shown some ability to be strong safeties. That's all I'm saying. Free safety is terrible, and the uninjured corners are arguably worse.
2) Our ILB's suck. Bad. Just stop it with the homerism.
They're not great, but other positions are worse. Kirksey is OK.
3) Schobert isn't a starter - they play both ILB's and call Ogbah an OLB even though he's a DL lined up elsewhere. Go check the snap count stats on DBN.. Schobert played all of 3 on Sunday. So, yes, he has no stats..... because he doesn't play.
This is true - it also means the same as what I say, that the FO will be looking to get a new OLB because Ray Horton likes his 3-4 and we're only playing a lot of 4-3 this year because of the 'talent' available.
DL was dreadful this past week, but so was the entire defense. They need talent at every position, and they just don't have it yet. Nassib is a fine complementary player, but not by himself.
Yes.
If the draft is QB at 1 and then nothing but D except for maybe another OL, that's fine by me.
Dependent on Kessler, I agree. And by another OL, I mean a center.
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It seems like we're using schobert more as a cover and run stopping olb'er. I didnt see much pass rushing out of him. And in that respect what ive seen of him he's fine. Again i would prefer us in a 4-3 so nassib and ogbah are always on the field together and schoberts the olb'er where he can blitz from
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You are aware he is playing with a lingering high ankle sprain and gets double teamed and schemed for every play? And he is 6'5 270 and far faster/quicker than those other two. Judge after the combine.
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No i was not aware he was playing injured. He lookef fast against bama though, but didnr look no 270 though. If bamas ol got a hold of him he let his arms get crumpled. Not sure if thats technique or lack of strength. Ill withhold judgement for now but from little ive seen he wiuldnt be on my radar righ now if i worked for the browns fo. Moreso because we already invested two picks at that pisition last year and we have such glaring needs elsewhere, like OL. Id like to see what we have in nassib and ogbah before we use another high pick on that position.
Next year qb and ol need to take precedent.
One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools.
... but (Garrett) didnr look no 270 though.
Next year qb and ol need to take precedent.
Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270.
Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
That's where I am on Kirksey as well. He's clearly not Luke Kuechly, but he could definitely be D'Qwell Jackson, hopefully tackling further upfield.
I remember hearing on sunday something about Kirksey's tackles for 2 yards or less being somewhere very high, like 4th or 5th? A somewhat arbitrary stat I guess, but it shows he's tackling at least close to the LoS, as opposed to just racking up tackles covering for others.
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I think kirksey might lead the league right now in that stat. Ive been enciuraged this year by him and davis. Both those guys are getting upfield way better on run plays.
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One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools.
... but (Garrett) didnr look no 270 though.
Next year qb and ol need to take precedent.
Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270.
Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster.
One note on Kirksey... he may not be the guy to be our lead ILB, but the other guy next to the guy. He had a three-play sequence vs. Cinci where he stuffed a run with a gap shot, sacked Dalton and then defended a pass 20 yards downfield. He has the tools.
Agree... Garrett looked a lot leaner than 270.
Jury is still out on QB, but OL future looks promising if we find the answer at RT on our roster.
Kirksey can be adequate If surrounded by enough talent. The Jackson comparison look to be correct.
RE: OL, you're not giving up on Erving yet Tour? I liked what I saw of Reiter until he got hurt.
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